New computer questions [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

View Full Version : New computer questions

Paceyourself

03-01-2008, 11:19 AM

I'm finally in the position to start looking at a new computer. I use my current system every day for Excel, MS Money, Word, email, web surfing, Photoshop 7.0 and DVD ripping and burning. So far I've been quite pleased with its performance. On weekends I'm an EQ2 junkie... The only issues I have are that it runs quite nicely with decent resolution and FPS as long as I disable ALL unnecessary processes and run it in full screen mode. At that point (with 19 processes) it runs very nicely with only some choppiness in highly populated areas. If I go to windowed mode and try to look up something on Allakhazam, all bets are off. I may or may not suffer a meltdown, otherwise its perfectly livable. My current system is:Dell Dimension 4600CPU Intel P4 2.66GHz, 533FSB 512K Mobo Dell 4600 Intel 82801EB RAM 1GB PC2700 DDR 166MHz Video GeForce FX5500 256Mb AGP HD 40GB Maxtor IDE ATA Power Original ? O/S XP Home SP2I'm looking at two different customs with the following configurations:System 1:CPU Intel C2D E6850 3.0GHz, 1333FSB 4096K Mobo Giagabyte GA-P35-DS3L P35, 1333FSB, PCI-E, DDR2, 1Gb LAN RAM 4GB PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel Video GeForce 8500GT 512Mb PCI Express 16X HD 500GB Hitachi 7200 SATA2 Power Okia 500W ATX O/S XP Pro 32bit versionSystem 2:CPU Intel C2D E8400 3.0GHz, 1333FSB 6000K Mobo Giagabyte GA-P35-DS3L P35, 1333FSB, PCI-E, DDR2, 1Gb LAN RAM 4GB PC5300 DDR2 667 Dual Channel Video ATI Radeon 2600Pro 512MB PCI Express 16X HD 500GB Hitachi 7200 SATA2 Power Okia 500W ATX O/S XP Pro 64bit version These two systems are only $35 apart in price and the only differences are the CPU, Video and OS. So my questions concern these three variables. Two of which I've heard will be my bottlenecks (the CPU and video). I can swap parts between the two configurations and still maintain my budget but can't exceed these specs (an 8800 and C2Q are out of the question). The only other question is, what's the advantage of a 64bit OS over a 32bit?Thank you for your insights!

stuka1000

03-01-2008, 04:42 PM

Ok 1st thing is 64bit OS but I would opt for Vista rather than XP. MS have completed sp1 for vista and by mid march it will be available. Second you are really slowing the machine with the memory that you have selected, go for at least 800mhz and higher if you can afford it. As for video I would go for Nvidia everytime but it's a personal choice. Core two duo for the cpu.

Paceyourself

03-01-2008, 06:00 PM

Ok, here's the system I'm opting for right now...CPU Intel C2D E8400 3.0GHz, 1333FSB 6000K Mobo Giagabyte GA-P35-DS3L P35, 1333FSB, PCI-E, DDR2, 1Gb LAN RAM 4GB PC6400 DDR2 800 Dual Channel Video GeForce 8500GT 512Mb PCI Express 16X HD 500GB Hitachi 7200 SATA2 Power Okia 500W ATX O/S Vista Home Premium 64bitI'm an nVidia fan anyway... It's my understanding that Vista is a RAM hog so my question concerning the OS selection is this, why is the 64 bit OS better than the 32 bit and why (based on resource usage) would Vista be better than XP Pro? I would like to have as many free resources available to EQ2 as possible.

stuka1000

03-01-2008, 10:00 PM

64 bit OS quite simply is capable of twice the work of a 32 bit in the same space of time, as the cpu is 64 bit it makes sense to get the most out of both of them. Having a 64bit cpu and a 32bit OS is like buying a ferrari and driving with the handbrake on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Vista is more secure than xp for a start and once sp1 is released to the general public to fix the major bugs it will also be better. You are putting 4gb of ram on board so memory usage will not be a problem. Just turn off the Aero desktop as this is what hogs a lot of the resources. Like most people I was very wary when upgrading to Vista but having used it for the past 6 months I wouldn't go back to XP.The system you have listed should run EQ2 just fine without any drama <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

LoneGreyWolf20

03-02-2008, 11:26 AM

<cite>stuka1000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>64 bit OS quite simply is capable of twice the work of a 32 bit in the same space of time, as the cpu is 64 bit it makes sense to get the most out of both of them. Having a 64bit cpu and a 32bit OS is like buying a ferrari and driving with the handbrake on <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Vista is more secure than xp for a start and once sp1 is released to the general public to fix the major bugs it will also be better. You are putting 4gb of ram on board so memory usage will not be a problem. Just turn off the Aero desktop as this is what hogs a lot of the resources. Like most people I was very wary when upgrading to Vista but having used it for the past 6 months I wouldn't go back to XP.The system you have listed should run EQ2 just fine without any drama <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>For many people, I'm not sure "Vista is more secure than xp for a start" is a selling point when it's very easy to secure your system these days.I am one that is staying away from Vista at this time. I see no need at all to upgrade as I could care less about DX10 at this time. I have also talked to many avid gamers and many of them are still staying away from Vista. Many have tried Vista and reverted or as they call it "upgraded" back to XP. They say that XP pro 64 bit or even XP 32 bit is much faster than Vista in gaming.When I build my system I am going to give XP Pro 64 bit a try and if I don't like it, go back to XP Home. I will have 4 gigs of ram, but since 32 bit only sees about 3.5 gigs of it I figure total I will get around 3 gigs of ram left after whatever needs it, takes it. That extra 1 gig should help out a bit.I will upgrade to Vista when XP support is dropped next year or they may do what they did with 98SE and extend it if they feel the the upgrade to Vista isn't happening fast enough.

Paceyourself

03-02-2008, 11:27 AM

Paceyourself

03-02-2008, 12:12 PM

<cite>LoneGreyWolf20 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>For many people, I'm not sure "Vista is more secure than xp for a start" is a selling point when it's very easy to secure your system these days.I am one that is staying away from Vista at this time. I see no need at all to upgrade as I could care less about DX10 at this time. I have also talked to many avid gamers and many of them are still staying away from Vista. Many have tried Vista and reverted or as they call it "upgraded" back to XP. They say that XP pro 64 bit or even XP 32 bit is much faster than Vista in gaming.When I build my system I am going to give XP Pro 64 bit a try and if I don't like it, go back to XP Home. I will have 4 gigs of ram, but since 32 bit only sees about 3.5 gigs of it I figure total I will get around 3 gigs of ram left after whatever needs it, takes it. That extra 1 gig should help out a bit.I will upgrade to Vista when XP support is dropped next year or they may do what they did with 98SE and extend it if they feel the the upgrade to Vista isn't happening fast enough.</blockquote>I agree with most (if not all) of what you say here. My problem is twofold. Number 1 - Unfortunately (I'm sure by MS design) Vista 64 is cheaper than XP Pro 64, hence my budgetary restrictions kick in <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />. Also... will I be "forced" to upgrade later and be out an additional cost at that time? Number 2 - The productivity software that I use (which I keep updated) is becoming more and more "Vista" compatible so I want the least amount of drama possible in the future. I just don't want to be forced to upgrade later. I've owned a computer since the late 80's and around the mid 90's started home networking. I've probably purchased 20 computers and it seems like the useful life of a system is around 4-5 years, and that's really stretching it. Granted, this machine will live probably 4 or 5 years longer as a NAS device and probably a print server, but that's about it.On a side note... I still own my very first computer. It's an IBM P/S2 Model 25 640K RAM. I upgraded from it's "state of the art" dual 720K floppies to it mega huge (never need any more space <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />) 20MB internal hard drive. And it only cost me $3,000 total... I'm done with trying to be state of the art. I just want something that will last for as many years as possible for the lowest dollars output. My IBM is simply obsolete, yet makes a quaint conversation piece. LOL, I guess it still does have some use left in it! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

stuka1000

03-02-2008, 11:39 PM

You're welcome mate. Another reason for 64bit as mentioned above (which I forgot to mention.....ahem!) is that 32bit OS cannot access 4GB of ram, you would only get about 3.5GB maximum. With 64bit you get the whole 4GB. Sorry about missing that bit of vital info out ...... /hangs head in shame <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Mantua1

03-03-2008, 06:59 AM

To the OP -I had nearly the same exact system you do - Dell dimesion 4600 only I had the fx 5200 128 meg card. Yea it ran eq2 3 years ago but.......I feel your pain.I have 2 computers I use for eq2 now.1 - the home desktop2.3ghz duo core 2 gig ram (I forget the type of becasue i have only had one coffee) and 2 nvida fx 8600 512 set up for SLI but as we know eq2 is not SLI friendly yet - we continue to hope <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> OZ is xp home (i think its the 32 bit) and I run in game at the setting just above balanced and balanced in raids. My normal fps (according to the ingame meter) bounces around 35-70 fps - it has dropped very low in extereme circumstances and I get teh Nvidia hiccup that you see posted all about but overall its been workable and once I get into the game (imeeresed) I dont notice it as much. This was slightly over the 1k mark in cost.2 - the work computerDell Vostro 1500 duo core 2.3 ghz - 4 gig ram - nvidia fx 8600 512 xp 32 bit (so yea I only register 3.5 gig of ram) this unit plays eq2 on the highest graphics settings in all situations EXCEPT raiding where it gets bumped down to just above balanced (High quality I think it is) When the boss asked me to get a computer for myself suitable for what I do I figured if it can play eq2 on the highest setting in a riad then it will do what I want. I came pretty close for less then 2k - boss was thrilled.Good luck but it can be done.

Paceyourself

03-04-2008, 09:59 AM

I'll probably make my order next week (I'm done with "impulse" buying) after looking around for awhile. We all know that as soon as I make this purchase I'll see the same exact system for "SPECIAL - $200 off" after I make the purchase. I do know one thing though... Evidently, about a year and a half ago, I set the graphics down to the lowest setting so the game would play smoothly and left it there. On Sunday evening I placed the settings to one notch up and proceeded to die at every turn... It was choppy, sure, but it wasn't that as much as I was a blind man that could finally see. I was so mesmerized by all the things I was seeing for the first time that I just didn't pay attention to the mobs. They, of course, took full advantage of my weakness. I couldn't fight effectively but I sure could see... I need this upgrade!Anyway... I still have a nagging sensation that I'm not quite comfortable with the XP64 vs Vista64 dilemma and would appreciate additional insights into this matter. I've steered clear of Vista for the obvious reasons but feel that with patches and upgrades (and the forthcoming SP release) that it "may" be a viable candidate.Does Vista allow for manual manipulations of running processes? Does Vista allow the removal of all unwanted visual effects that chew up system resources?Do either of them allow setting exclusive affinity for EQ2 and piping other processes through the second core?Once I get a real good comfort level with this issue, I think I'll be ready to be dazzled by a world that I've only just begun to see... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

stuka1000

03-04-2008, 10:19 AM

In answer to your 3 specific Vista questions, yes, yes & yes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Vista only titles have been thin on the ground but we will start to see more and more of them as time moves on in exactly the same way it happened between the transition from Windows 98/ME to XP. The economic bottom line as again it was when XP was 1st introduced is that sooner or later you will have no real choice as a gamer but to upgrade. Many games now are being made with a DX10 option as well as DX9 and it will not be too long down the pipeline before DX9 starts to be unsupported. Buying an XP based system now just leaves you needing to find extra money in a year or so for the upgrade.

Paceyourself

03-05-2008, 09:01 AM

<cite>stuka1000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>In answer to your 3 specific Vista questions, yes, yes & yes <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Vista only titles have been thin on the ground but we will start to see more and more of them as time moves on in exactly the same way it happened between the transition from Windows 98/ME to XP. The economic bottom line as again it was when XP was 1st introduced is that sooner or later you will have no real choice as a gamer but to upgrade. Many games now are being made with a DX10 option as well as DX9 and it will not be too long down the pipeline before DX9 starts to be unsupported. Buying an XP based system now just leaves you needing to find extra money in a year or so for the upgrade.</blockquote>Thanks Stuka! I've been reading some of your other posts (on other threads) and have gotten a much better understanding of all the pitfalls that affect the gaming experience. I think one of the points I made earlier, and that you've reinforced here, is that my productivity software is becoming more and more Vista compatible and the future holds even more in that direction. My whole thought process revolves around "total cost of ownership" and that includes "forced" upgrades to the current system. I'm comfortable at $1,000 every 5 years ($200 a year) for a new system. I just want to make sure that the system I get will be viable for at least 5 years...That said, I'm going to visit an old, old friend (the kiddies won't understand but we played King's Quest 1 back in the day) and his wife has a Vista system that's about 6 months old. We're going to install EQ2 on there and see how it runs. That will most likely be the determinant factor.

stuka1000

03-05-2008, 09:20 AM

As far as the new technology goes EQ2 runs fine with Vista, up to date cpu's, up to date motherboards and sound systems etc. It's the 8800 cards it has trouble with and has done for some time. I have a pretty top end system but EQ2 still stutters because I'm running two 8800GTX cards, go figure lol.

Paceyourself

03-17-2008, 09:59 AM

Here's what's coming... Any suggestions for when it arrives?Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3.0GHz, 1333FSB (Dual Core) 6000KCooler Master HyperTX Intel EXTRA QUIET Vertical HeatPipe Copper fanGigabyte GA-P35-DS3L P35, 1333FSB, PCI Express, DDR2, Sound, 1Gb LAN4GB (2x2GB) PC6400 DDR2 800 Dual ChannelGeForce 8500GT 512Mb PCI EXpress 16X dual head, tv out500.0GB Hitachi/ IBM 7200RPM SATA2, UDMA 300 8m cacheAC 97 3D Full Duplex sound card (onboard)Ethernet network adapter (onboard)Nikao Black Neon ATX Case w/ Temperature control, front USB & iEEEOkia 500W ATX Power SupplyMicrosoft Windows Vista Home Premium 64bit DVD