Lleinen
02-29-2008, 04:18 PM
<p>(edit note)Also a little notice, the eq2flames.com posts are not mod'd so those posts are pretty much anything goes (nothing NSFW though)Thx Echgar for suggesting this<b>NOTE : Remember, Im passionate as heck about my class and the last thing I want to do is betray. Yes Im being negative here and there in this post but its because I hate to see where the class is headed. We havent been talked to or anything. It'd be nice to see a dev ask for feedback every now and then, thats why I have made this post. This is my feedback, Ive been playing for a long long time and I know this class inside and out. Also I am a raider mainly, so that means I really need to know the tricks...but anyone can learn it overtime if you've played long enough. So take it for what its worth...good feedback. We just want some love...</b></p><p><b><i><u><span style="font-size: large;">SUMMARY OF COERCER PROBLEMS :</span></u></i></b><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">Raiding</span></b>Coercers are having trouble finding a good fit into raids lately. It seems for the most part that coercers mainly can only go into the MT/OT group because of their hate buff and ... well, thats all they really have. Thats the problem. Our utility compared to other classes (dirge, illusionist, swash(hate transfer)) is horrid.Some people will say, " Yah! But we have channeling and can maintain a groups power like nothing else! " . And thats true...but in the end, with raiding, thats not the problem anymore. If you take a few hours out of your day any raid can be setup with enough power procing items to have them set for just about anything.Also, our DPS is a joke. Its either low or high, theres no real in between. Either the mob hits your tank/raid or it doesnt. There is no middle ground. Our DPS is too situational and annoying. We've already given proper insight for this. Have Auspex and Spell Lash proc on ATTEMPTS/SUCCESS instead of only successfull hits.So in review our buffs are FAR INFERIOR to dirges, illusionists, and swashbucklers, why would you need a coercer for any group? DPS is nice for...what...a ranger and monk? Who uses those on raids anymore? Maybe a monk but...yah. Then theres the power proc thing that makes our class a joke along with REACTIVE damage based on your tank/raid getting HURT!? Isnt the point of a raid to get better and not die/get hurt in time...so as the raid gets better our DPS gets worse?</p><p><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">Mythical (Raiding) Epic Reward</span></b>Not to toot my own horn here but I WW disco'd the fabled version of this epic and never have I been more crushed than I was when I saw it. The effect was poorly thought out and will totally never be used...let alone on the Mythical version. Im not really a "grouper" or "casual" person so Ill leave you guys to comment on that, but I will comment on the Mythical.Hands down, the worst epic. The stats arnt even that good. I didnt get disco on this and when I saw the mythical get disco'd I have been teetering over the betray button for a while ever since that day. I have faith. I dunno...I just have faith, for some odd reason, that maybe, just maybe this time coercers might get some love. So I will go over it really fast...Wisdom instead of STR. The amount of WIS on this weapon wont help with resists, at all. And as a mage STR gear is hard to find. All things being said this item should be "epic" and having WIS on it doesnt make it epic in anyway. Then, there is Siren's Gift. The stake to my heart. A <b>proc </b>(even if it wasnt a proc it would still suck) that does -20% power use for 10 sec...wow. Thats alone shows that the coercer class is completely and utterly ignored and not looked at. Coercers have no trouble, as is, to maintain the power of their group with the 4 combo we have called <b>Channeling, Cannibalize Thoughts, Mana Flow, and Mana Shroud</b>. Why do we need ANOTHER power reducing effect? We dont! I understand the dev's want that to be our main role, but they seem to not understand how the game works at the moment. How can you make a class do something specific (and just about only that) and then release items with AMAZING power proc'ing capability. Helm of C.Mayong and the belt from Chokadi collar collection quest just to name a couple. A healer with ONE of these items INSTANTLY cancels out ANY possibility (outside of an outright 100% power drain) to lose their power.</p><p>-20% power use is meanlingless, useless, and a horrible thought up proc. Two thumbs way down to whoever thought this one up. Then there is the focus to Mana Flow to make it group. Just to comment, about QA as well, wow, did you guys even test this item out? Mana Flow returns 10% power for every person in that group plus pets to the coercer. I mean...do you know what our AAs are? You must...because Illusionists are so well taken care of, dont you? The last ability in INT line tells us that we MUST stay under 30% power to gain 25% more damage.With this focus effect, how are we going to stay under 30% power all the time? Simply put, just dont ever cast mana flow? The devs shoulda had this fixed in GU43...but it wasnt. Not suprising, hopefully all the epic fixes will come out sometime before the next expansion at this rate.Then there is the last effect, the clicky. Adds mental damage to a fighter in your groups' taunts. I love how our epic helps out other people all around and we dont get a single thing to help us besides 10% reuse (which btw, is the only plus on this item). I understand where they are trying to go with this and his sighted at MT/OT coercers...too bad its trash. They dont need the extra beef, all we're doing is increasing their DPS (which btw, gets upgraded with THEIR epic)...so why not beef our DPS? And no I dont mean add 2 pets to puppetmaster (which is a horrible thought out spell as well).I dont understand. I know a lot of raiding coercers think "wow, what the heck is going on" when they look at an illusionist parse compared to ours. They are much more consistant across the board. For us, especially now with the resist nerf to mages resist rate, our DPS has always been situational and depended on the mob. So what I dont understand is why we dont get a clicky buff to buff ourselves and give us a extra proc (or even just make it a proc on the weapon and do away with clicky) for significantly higher DPS. Why is a mystic and fury outparsing me some of the time? Im a mage, and I have SOME usefull utility (see power proc'ing items above) in my DPS/hatebuff but its so minimal why does our DPS have to keep suffering more and more and more?This epic failed. 80%+ of the raiding coercer population agrees. It could have been better in SO MANY other ways but...sadly, it isnt and at this rate wont be, but again, I hold faith. If you'd like to see suggestions (which btw they are TONS that are MUCH better than current effects on some of my sources at the bottom of this under the epic concerns).</p><p><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">DPS</span></b>One word. Reactive. In some situations its crazy good and other situations its horrible. As your raid gets better, your DPS drops more and more and more. If your tank is avoiding or blocking a hit, your losing DPS. If, like Nexona, the AE is bugged, when it goes off you will only get 1 trigger instead of 5 triggers of Spell Curse...why is that? Illusionists get a click they put on a ALLY and instantly get their reactives used up. For us we have to wait for our raid to be hurt...that doesnt make any sense. (even in groups this is hard, most mobs are heroic and there are so many stuns/dazes/stifles out there that we just get use up 3-6 triggers on 1 mob, and obviously, rarely, there are mobs that use them right up).</p><p>Basically what Im saying is....our DPS is TOO INCONSISTANT. I've already floated the idea out there that in order to save coercer DPS then they need to make Hostage / Spell Curse proc on any ATTEMPTED/SUCCESSFULL hit. Not just successfull. It makes our DPS in some situations minimal and I dont see why I have to cheer for my tank/dps overaggro'ers to get hit so I can see my numbers going up.Some say...well, why would you do that? Your utility not DPS! WRONG. We are a mage class with MINIMAL utility and MINIMAL dps. A good chance to help coercers with DPS has been averted 2 times thanks to Lockeye and Aeralik. Possession is not group (too risky) or raid (uhh, epics?) useable, bugged, and just an outright horrible (breaks when we get farted on, bugs ring events, etc) spell. Puppetmaster sucks...thats all. Swarm pets that dont do a thing. I took this spell off my hotbar a couple days ago because I lost DPS by casting it. 3 pets that have a chance to hit for 2-300 and miss quite a bit? Now with the caster nerf...lol, thx Aeralik *thumbs down*. What were you thinking? (Honest Q. please answer).Our DPS really could be brought up to par by balancing the damage output that Hostage/Spell Curse do then making it proc on attempted/successfull attacks, and increasing Hemmorage damage a bit and/or make Cataclysmic Mind back into a nuke...at the moment its worthless. Power drains dont do anything...why do we still have this spell? The trigger at the end still doesnt do anything for this spell.</p><p><b><span style="font-size: x-large;">Charming</span></b>Personally for the risk vs reward I dont think our pets needed to be toned down 50%. Yes they needed a little nerf bat, but all the way down 50% is a bit much. I dont group that much so Ill let someone that does comment on this more (see sources below), but I believe you guys need to stop making PvE get affected by PvP. They are seperate and we're sick of seeing the minority change our game for us. Make it SEPERATE. And tone PvE pets back up about 20%.</p><p><span style="font-size: x-large;"><b>Utility</b></span>Not much I can say here that I didnt already say under the epic forum. Ill go over all our utility :Power management (its all fine and dandy, Cannibalize Thoughts, ManaFlow, Channeling, Mana Shroud) *thumbs up*Hate buff (worse than dirge, hate transfer is minimal because our DPS is, especially now after caster nerf to oranges, too inconsistant (see DPS section to fix this)).DPS (not bad, too bad we usually only put it on 1-2 people at most. Just make it a group buff for 1 conc or somethin.)Deaggro (proc's when the person gets AE'd...not even sure if its working anymore, imo change it to something like Synergism, make it proc when that person attacks, that will bring up utility A LOT)Stunning/Dazing (nice, works fine in raids and solo, too bad it counters our DPS because the mob wont be attacking, therefore neither will we)Stifles (useless, power drains too)Crowd Control (situational and rare, for the most part its turn and burn, pull lots and burn em down!! who cares about mezzing? again, very situational)Debuffs Obliterated and Asylum (dont debuff enough, asylum is ok, obliterated should be around 2k imo...make it like tash in eq1 which was very usefull)</p><p>Most our utility is situational (CC, deaggro, debuffs, stun/daze)...some of it its minimally usefull (aggro buff, dps)...and some of it just is hardly used (power management, items drop in game that make these almost unused).Best way to give us more utility is to increase our DPS to make our hate transfer better, make our deaggro proc on attacks and not getting attacked, and upgrade our debuffs to be more usefull. The problem is we dont have any good utility that makes us stand out (dirge has CoB and +melee buffs, crits, hate buff, etc which is all fine, illus have haste IA synergism less-power-use less-resists, etc....we get hate and dps...thats it, it doesnt make us stand out in ANYWAY)</p><p>SOURCES:</p><p>OVERVIEW (like this one) OF COERCER PROBLEMS<a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=370423" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=370423</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20681-negotiation-strategy.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...n-strategy.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=408189" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=408189</a>EPIC PROBLEMS (our mythical is the worst, by far, see how many posts??) <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=407421" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=407421</a><b></b><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20226-coercer-epic-fail.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...-epic-fail.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20500-you-happy-your-epic.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...-your-epic.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20349-illusionist-mythical.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...t-mythical.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20622-constructive-mythical-feedback-ideas.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...back-ideas.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20191-my-extended-epic-analysis.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...c-analysis.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20280-siren-s-gift-working.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...ft-working.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/19992-betray.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/1...992-betray.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=408180" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=408180</a></p><p>NOT FITTING IN RAIDS ANYMORE??DPS ISSUE!?What can SoE do about it??<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/21324-mt-group-coercer-s-group-vote.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...group-vote.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/14236-coercer-dps-broken.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/1...dps-broken.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=407874" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=407874</a>CHARM SUCKING/NERFED!?!?<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/20228-charm-nerf.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...charm-nerf.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=406896" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=406896</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=406420" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=406420</a></p><p>BROKEN SPELLS?! USELESS SPELLS?? (Possession / Puppetmaster / Despotic Mind / Harrowing Silence)<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/13073-our-new-unique-spell-better-not-suck.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/1...r-not-suck.html</a> (this one is funny because i predicted the suck)<a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/21119-despotic-mind-spell-line-does-work.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/2...-does-work.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/16117-puppetmaster-more-like-underpowered-master.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/1...red-master.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/15848-coercer-class-not-broken-just-some-spells.html" target="_blank">http://www.eq2flames.com/coercers/1...ome-spells.html</a><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=397665" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=397665</a></p><p>Thats the tip of the iceburg...im sure theres more but I have to head out now.</p><p><3</p>