Emphazising the problem of overland raid contested mobs. [Archive]

Calogrenant

02-28-2008, 07:25 PM

Hey there,Well first of all, yes I do know there's another resemblant thread on the board, problem is, it quickly got derailed from the main problem when folks started arguing about group/solo/raid, master/money acquisition and content distribution. Hence the "emphasis" I now put in the title.Now, to the point, so it won't be missed or overlooked:The developer note states:- The Domini have shown themselves in order to lead the Sathirian nation into a new age of glory! They are contested raid targets in overland RoK zones intended for casual raid guilds in difficulty.The developers are putting in the same sentence: "Contested Epic mobs" and "Guild with difficulties". How do they -or you, devs, if reading- expect those two concepts to at least remotedly come close to eachother? Is there, at all, any developer that seriously believes these mobs aren't going to be perma locked down by 24/7 guilds?So, basically, you're coming up with what you think it's going to be a solution for a certain part of the playing community, and this, straight away from the announcement is going to fail at its planned purpose. It doesn't matter how much content 24/7 guilds, soloers or groups already got, here we got the developers saying: "we want to help this part of the community" and the provided solution is missconceived from the get go.Thus, in my humble opinion, if your purpose is to help this target, just place some Epic x2 instances. Or something else, because this definitely does not look as if it's going to "work as intended."

Seolta

02-29-2008, 12:27 AM

Lolz...this is pick up raid fodder. Casual guilds will never even get a shot at these /boggle.

Rahatmattata

02-29-2008, 06:58 AM

Adding more contested content is a good thing. Instancing everything sucks. Instances are fun, but so is contested content. What makes you think these mobs will be on lockdown? I play on AB and none of the x2 in KJ are on lockdown. Noone locked down Temple of Scale. The only way you can really lock down a mob is if it's so hard it's almost impossible to kill unless you get a lot of pulls and practice in. Even then, you can still compete, get in whatever pulls you can squeeze out and eventually learn the encounter and be able to kill it. Nothing is stopping anyone from camping stuff and being quick to take pulls except their own players.

Belaythien

02-29-2008, 07:22 AM

<cite>Rahatmattata wrote:</cite><blockquote>... get in whatever pulls you can squeeze out and eventually learn the encounter and be able to kill it. Nothing is stopping anyone from camping stuff and being quick to take pulls except their own players.</blockquote>You will not get the chance to squeeze out ANY pulls as a casual raid. The only time casual raids get a full-blown raid force is usually around the time they have raids planned.24/7 raids can get their force up much earlier and faster. Even if they don't get 24 people, they can still kill these mobs with less. Especially if they are easier as advertised. Once a raid has killed one of the contesteds, they know when they will spawn again. 24/7 raid coms have people watching the spot where a mob is expected to spawn soon. You can actually tell a contested is about to spawn when there are afk-watchers of certain guilds around. Casual raids cannot compete with this.You cannot just call everybody in a casual raid and expect them to be there any other time than the regularly planned times. At most you can get the info out that you'll be going to some contested mob in the evening, instead of the intended target, because it was up at noon. So far it always turned out that a 24/7 raid com has already been there.Claiming to make contested raid mobs for casual raids cannot be taken serious. All those mobs will be, is fodder for non-casual raid coms <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.

Rahatmattata

02-29-2008, 07:39 AM

At least they are adding them. Which means there's a chance a casual guild can kill one. Besides, noone has anything in T8 locked down as far as I've heard. The ape is up on my server. I believe an avatar or two has been killed but they are by no means on lockdown. The x2 in KJ aren't locked down either. So, all you casual guilds get out there and take pulls or stop crying and accept the fact that you can't/won't kill them. All the contested atm are pretty much ffa, so there's no excuse crying about mobs locked down when they have either been sitting up for weeks or they get killed by different people all the time. They could also adjust spawn timers to make stuff harder to "lockdown". Death Reveler dropped one of the best mage items in the game... but has like a 2hr spawn time or something. Make some like that, make some with huge spawn windows.Sorry if your guild can't say "hey this mob will be up between these times.. be online if you can".

Rainmare

02-29-2008, 08:20 AM

This is the issue. it's about the big guilds, the 'uber' guilds, that can probably 1 group these x2 mobs. there's only 1 reason they wouldn't. they loot would have to be so inferior to anything else that they can get as to not make it worth thier time. which usual makes it not worth anyone's time.I know on Oasis Severilous and the Rex raptor are usually dead 20 minutes at most after they are up. and it certainly doesn't seem to be the 'casual' guilds killing them. and it's not pick up raids either.the pumpkin headed horseman was locked down by uber guilds, who were formed and ready 5 min before it spawned. it's been the same for Avatars. the guilds that master these first, own them. there's no other way about it. any raid mob that is contested is only viable to uber guilds. i.e. the top 3, at most, on the server.Hardcore, Uber raid guilds are run exactly like a military outfit. most anyone of value or use is on call, literally. if you are online, you are to drop everything you are doing immediately to take down whatever is up. and when they die, someone marks down the exact date and time, and keeps track until it respawns so they know exactly how long the timer is.Yes, contested mobs are fun, it's nice to race against time and players for them. but it's an experience probably only 1-3% of the raiding community gets.you simply cannot make viable contested mobs for casual guilds. the uber guilds can, and will, snarf them up the second they are discovered, and only not kill them if thier loot is so poor that they won't even get it for thier alts. which means the mains for casual guilds won't want it either.

Kizee

02-29-2008, 10:32 AM

Unless they put something on them that the raiders want then they will be left alone. Although the itemization is so fubared in this expansion I wouldn't be suprised seeing them drop stuff better than vp gear.I don't know why the casuals are complaining since it is yet another thing they are adding for you guys. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Oakum

02-29-2008, 11:42 AM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Unless they put something on them that the raiders want then they will be left alone. Although the itemization is so fubared in this expansion I wouldn't be suprised seeing them drop stuff better than vp gear.I don't know why the casuals are complaining since it is yet another thing they are adding for you guys. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>The casuals are complaining because while the notes say the raid mobs will be for casual raiders, they feel that the hardcore raid guilds will pick them up before they can get a raid up. So you are saying that Fallen and the other raid guilds will never kill them because they are not aimed at them? Take the question as a question and not a "challenge". While I have nothing against hardcore raid guilds that is a valid point from a casual perspective where people do not have the home/cell phone numbers of everyone in the guild to call them and tell them to get online now or else. The sleep of my family and being rested enough to do a good job at work are more important to me then to others. Thats my choice but being a bit older then other players, I need more sleep and have a different perspective then some. lol. back on subject now,I don't see how the dev's can really make contested content for a casual raid guild unless they have something that checks the raid flags for the raid and if so many are flagged too high then the mob is unattackable by it and even that could probably be gotten around with alts in a hardcore raid guild that are not flagged yet. Of course if they did the flag thing or something like it, the more vocal hardcore guilds would complain because they were not allowed to kill the mobs just like the casuals are complaining now because they see themselves not able to get a realistic chance at killing the contested. Myself, I am at best a casual raider. I raid for the quests, gear, and the fun of taking down hard mobs as well as the teamwork that is involved. I don't much care for bragging rights of who gets what contested. It is taken to extremes by way too many people and it becomes more then just friendly competition. I am not saying that Kizee acts that way either. I don't remember any of that kind of behavior from him/her in chat channels unless its under a different name.

Calogrenant

02-29-2008, 03:02 PM

Hey again,Glad to see all of these great on-topic posts!Here's some arguments to keep the point standing, and to also explain why it's extremely hard to implement a good solution:- If loot won't be good for a 24/7 guild's main characters, it will certainly be for their alts, or for effortlessly-acquired transmuting fodder.- If a flag system is used, which is not a bad idea, the problem will persist on servers where these guilds got... an alt guild! Happens in Nek at least. Even then, a good flag system would be extremely hard to implement, in my humble opinion of course.- Even if they're not timed on death, trust me, there's no way -at all- that a casual guild will get their numbers up and ready before an uber guild 2 or 3 groups that 4x with just the people they had logged on at the moment.- This is important: When a casual guild is beaten to a contested, it becomes increasingly hard to muster the numbers the next time that contested is up, simply because of the demoralizing factor of previous bad experiences. People say: "I got just an hour to do something and don't want to waste it to get there, assemble the raid and end up watching a 2-group uber guild take that x4 out within a 5 minute call".My comment about x2 instances wasn't stated as the be-all-end-all solution, just as an option. Please don't think I'm complaining, just trying to give a hand with something long overdue.Another solution could be a short-lasting quest, with a spawnable epic encounter at its end, overland if it needs be, where those who participated of the encounter or ring event can't participate again unless a certain amount of time has elapsed (For example, 4-7 days). An example: "You can't accept this quest until a certain amount of time has passed".In this way you would have:- An almost instanced piece of content that can be done by any guild, might include previous steps to be done by several groups in different places at the same time, which would also end up being good group-forming and analysis training for casual guilds.- The need to fullfill these previous steps, which could be thought as the poor man's access pre-reqs, and could be as simple as killing 4 spawnable heroic mobs spread away in the same zone within a short time frame. Would also mean coordination training and practice.- With the "quest lockout", it would be impossible to farm, or, to put it in another way, just as farmable as any other thing in the game.- Guaranteed fun for any guild at any moment, with good rewards for those who can muster 4 groups, organize them to fulfill the previous step/s, and with the skill to beat the final encounter, without fear of having the mobs mugged, without the need to kill tough epic trash like in high level instances until they get to some name, and with the possibility of being done within a medium to short timeframe, unlike long lasting high end raids, which of course are hard to do for those who got RL stuff to attend to.Just another solution, that would indeed look like an idea that'd help casual raiding guilds.Cheers!

Quda

02-29-2008, 04:04 PM

Another thing that is being missed is that even if the loot is pure junk, it will either be fabled or Orante, meaning the uber guilds will still be locking down the mobs so they can mute the stuff to adorn their alts.

Zarvax

02-29-2008, 04:28 PM

Alright... i guess I'll be talking from the opposite side of the spectrum here... I dunno what many of you guys consider "uber guilds" but as far as they go I guess I am in one. A few of you have mentioned AB (maybe just one I dunno?) but I am in The Bekwen Alliance... we've done everything, we are the ones who "lock down" mobs, we are the ones who got the mythicals, etc. etc. etc.However, for those of you on AB, I dunno which guilds you - think - are the uber guilds, maybe you need to clue me in, but TBA doesn't even pay attention to the x2s in Kunzar anymore, or any of the T7 mobs (which all still have very good loot, and would still be quite a challenge for most of the casual guilds) we are not going to waste our resources on camping the (forgive me here) "lesser" mobs when we have bigger better things to be doing. Yes, we kill them if we see them up, but we don't actually keep timers or camp them.Most of us aren't as big of jerks as many of you think, we don't kill mobs just so that other people don't get the chance... my guess is right now casual guilds are the ones getting alot of the kills on mobs like Trak and Sev, (at least on AB) And these mobs are going to be no different. We will kill them the first few weeks, until we exhaust their loot table, then they will be yours to take I am sure, as we will realise that they have nothing we want, and move back to doing bigger and better things... killing them only when we see them.Unless SoE screws up... and makes their loot better than VP loot (which is very very possible, knowing SoE) in which case I appologize, but its not our fault SoE made the mobs desireable to us.

Gorhauth

02-29-2008, 05:18 PM

Kegofbud

02-29-2008, 06:27 PM

Just because they are contested, doesn't mean the hardcore guilds are going to kill them on you all the time. That's being worried about nothing. These mobs aren't comparable to other contested, if they are implemented in the right progression. Sure, hardcore guilds are going to kill them to check them out, but you're simply insane if you think that we will be adjusting our raid targets or implementing call lists to keep people from them. Stop being so worried over it. They'll end up being no different then Sev and T-Rex. You'll have plenty of time to kill them. Very few to no one will be blocking you to them. Would you rather not have them at all?

Gorhauth

02-29-2008, 06:43 PM

Would you believe that Contested Mayoung is still locked down on my server? The raid force is there waiting for it to pop (so I've been told, it is on a repop timer in the middle of the day).

LygerT

02-29-2008, 07:32 PM

some T7 contested mobs still have some nice usable loot for T8 raiding so it doesn't surprise me. in fact most contested mobs do, most do not stay up for long until they have long turned grey.i view this as more contested similar to severilous/trakanasaurus rex also, hardcore guilds will poke at it a few times to see what the pinata drops then leave it alone leaving it for the rest of the server. you still need to be on your heels when preparing for a contested regardless of how minor some raid forces view it there will be others on your server who are also watching for those mobs to pop just for a chance at something decent that it may drop. anyone else getting tired of the "i'm jealous of your gear, but i don't want to put in 1/5th of the effort you did to get it!" argument? i work as hard as most of the hardcores on my server and i don't make threads complaining about not having what they have.

Calogrenant

02-29-2008, 08:21 PM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>anyone else getting tired of the "i'm jealous of your gear, but i don't want to put in 1/5th of the effort you did to get it!" argument? i work as hard as most of the hardcores on my server and i don't make threads complaining about not having what they have. </blockquote>I still have to see somebody complaining about someone else's gear here. May I remind you this thread is about a problem the devs are trying to fix with the wrong solution, not about requesting to get T8 fabled off of Antonica's gnolls. Thank you.

Travelin'Man

02-29-2008, 08:26 PM

What about:1. To prevent them from being camped, put them on a true random respawn timer. You could even match the loot table to how long since they were killed last, with better items if it has been longer since last killed.2. To prevent uber guilds from 2 grouping them, and having a better chance for casual guilds to get a chance at them, require 22-24 people in raid before they become attackable. Just a couple ideas....

LygerT

02-29-2008, 08:33 PM

i always thought the static timer was a dumb idea, making it far too easy for even high end raid guilds to throw together a few people when the time to pop was coming around and go own a mob. most higher end guilds won't bother keeping an eye on a mob if it's on a random pop timer.

Kizee

02-29-2008, 09:09 PM

Kizee

02-29-2008, 09:11 PM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>i always thought the static timer was a dumb idea, making it far too easy for even high end raid guilds to throw together a few people when the time to pop was coming around and go own a mob. most higher end guilds won't bother keeping an eye on a mob if it's on a random pop timer. </blockquote>Huh? You want to bet? People camp alts at all the contested spawns spots and check them time to time.Plus, the contested stuff is already on a +/- couple day timer.....whats a total random timer going to do?

LygerT

02-29-2008, 09:55 PM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>i always thought the static timer was a dumb idea, making it far too easy for even high end raid guilds to throw together a few people when the time to pop was coming around and go own a mob. most higher end guilds won't bother keeping an eye on a mob if it's on a random pop timer. </blockquote>Huh? You want to bet? People camp alts at all the contested spawns spots and check them time to time.Plus, the contested stuff is already on a +/- couple day timer.....whats a total random timer going to do?</blockquote>sure i'll take your bet, how many people waste an alt and camp it at Trex or severilous if they don't have it's timer locked down? i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that not very many people currently do if they don't have a timer established.

bryldan

02-29-2008, 10:04 PM

Honestly i think they should put a code in on ALL contested mob that you have to hail them first and if ANYONE in the raid has done him within like a couple months or so he will NOT agro. This will solve a lot of these uber guilds from sitting there camping these mobs and locking them down like they do.

Kizee

02-29-2008, 10:16 PM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>i always thought the static timer was a dumb idea, making it far too easy for even high end raid guilds to throw together a few people when the time to pop was coming around and go own a mob. most higher end guilds won't bother keeping an eye on a mob if it's on a random pop timer. </blockquote>Huh? You want to bet? People camp alts at all the contested spawns spots and check them time to time.Plus, the contested stuff is already on a +/- couple day timer.....whats a total random timer going to do?</blockquote>sure i'll take your bet, how many people waste an alt and camp it at Trex or severilous if they don't have it's timer locked down? i'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that not very many people currently do if they don't have a timer established. </blockquote>If it drops good loot then why not?All the high end raid guilds have alts camped at all the avatars and thats probably extreme case of random spawn .

-Arctura-

02-29-2008, 11:29 PM

(( I think more (raid) content is awesome.On my server contested mobs are usually always up and waiting for days before anyone gets off their butt to kill them.Ladon and Anguis were the best parts of CL and ANT back in the day when EQ2 first began and we were all newbs. It added a TON of insane fun to those big zones. The Unexpected! The CHOICES!Adding things is good.

LygerT

03-01-2008, 04:04 AM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it drops good loot then why not?All the high end raid guilds have alts camped at all the avatars and thats probably extreme case of random spawn . </blockquote>avatars are an example of mobs that higher end raid guilds would want to camp.

Gaige

03-01-2008, 07:04 AM

<cite>Gorhauth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would you believe that Contested Mayoung is still locked down on my server? The raid force is there waiting for it to pop (so I've been told, it is on a repop timer in the middle of the day).</blockquote>Because he drops two items that aren't replaceable even by T8 gear. The Dominus' will be just like the cube mobs in Bonemire. Hardcore guilds will kill them a few times to see what they have, and when it sucks (like it should) they'll leave them alone.My guild only kills Sev/Trex for plats, the loot all sucks or we have what we need. Even then we don't keep a timer on them, we just kill them if they happen to be up when we're running by. We don't kill PHH anymore, because all of his loot is meh. Its not our fault they put the skullcap and dark orb on Mayong =/Casual's complain no matter what, so I figured I'd see a thread like this. Speaking for my guild, we'll never make a call list for the Dominus', we'll save those for avatars.<cite>bryldan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly i think they should put a code in on ALL contested mob that you have to hail them first and if ANYONE in the raid has done him within like a couple months or so he will NOT agro. This will solve a lot of these uber guilds from sitting there camping these mobs and locking them down like they do.</blockquote>It'd probably also save us from playing this game. Do you know what not letting us kill contested mobs for MONTHS would do? Waste the content. I guarantee you we could leave every avatar that spawns on Kith and the Tangrin up from now until May and no one would kill them unless they were significantly nerfed.Also, nobody has alts camped at Sev/Trex and no one calls for them. That is [Removed for Content] to even say. Maidens/Chelsith/CoA all drop better stuff than they drops, not including the shield.

TheDu

03-01-2008, 02:50 PM

<div align="justify">Wow, there seems to be a lot of hate for "uber" guilds out there! Maybe my experience with them is different than most, but I don't get why you want to limit them, with quests or getting more members in the group (which they will do) just so you can have a shot.They are adding in contested intended for casual guilds. Are there going to be "uber" guilds trying the new contested? Sure why not? They are CONTESTED, which means you will have to get there and kill them before the "ubers" line up. If the gear is okay they'll farm it until what they need drops then they will be done. Would they put them on high priority? Probably not. Sev and T-Rex roam free on the server I play on, and there are the two "uber" guilds that haven't touched them in months...Heck, last Sunday morning on my server, one of the uber guilds went through bringing 3x groups of pick ups through quite a few contested, explaining strats on doing so, gave us potions when needed for encounters. They didn't take anything for themselves, giving all the gear to all the pick up people, never once talking down to anyone or acting like jerks, I had a great time and they seemed like a bunch of cool folks.Heck, I have never been in a raid before, much less a contested raid, The guild I am does a raid a couple times a week, but I can't make them due to my schedule and I walked away with some really nice AAXP and gear that will be very hard to upgrade as a solo-small group player. Then they took us on a raid zone (I forgot the name, but there were a lot of vampires) and again took no pieces for themselves giving everything away to the pick ups.</div>

Gorhauth

03-01-2008, 04:32 PM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gorhauth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Would you believe that Contested Mayoung is still locked down on my server? The raid force is there waiting for it to pop (so I've been told, it is on a repop timer in the middle of the day).</blockquote>Because he drops two items that aren't replaceable even by T8 gear. The Dominus' will be just like the cube mobs in Bonemire. Hardcore guilds will kill them a few times to see what they have, and when it sucks (like it should) they'll leave them alone.My guild only kills Sev/Trex for plats, the loot all sucks or we have what we need. Even then we don't keep a timer on them, we just kill them if they happen to be up when we're running by. We don't kill PHH anymore, because all of his loot is meh. Its not our fault they put the skullcap and dark orb on Mayong =/Casual's complain no matter what, so I figured I'd see a thread like this. Speaking for my guild, we'll never make a call list for the Dominus', we'll save those for avatars.</blockquote>Oh, far from complaining. I was just pointing out that it isn't always about loot. Sometimes it is about blocking other guilds. Why else would a guild that was killing avatars as they spawn still call their list at 4am to kill Hurricanus?

Gladiia

03-01-2008, 05:08 PM

<cite>TheDude wrote:</cite><blockquote><div align="justify">Wow, there seems to be a lot of hate for "uber" guilds out there! Maybe my experience with them is different than most, but I don't get why you want to limit them, with quests or getting more members in the group (which they will do) just so you can have a shot.They are adding in contested intended for casual guilds. Are there going to be "uber" guilds trying the new contested? Sure why not? They are CONTESTED, which means you will have to get there and kill them before the "ubers" line up. If the gear is okay they'll farm it until what they need drops then they will be done. Would they put them on high priority? Probably not. Sev and T-Rex roam free on the server I play on, and there are the two "uber" guilds that haven't touched them in months...Heck, last Sunday morning on my server, one of the uber guilds went through bringing 3x groups of pick ups through quite a few contested, explaining strats on doing so, gave us potions when needed for encounters. They didn't take anything for themselves, giving all the gear to all the pick up people, never once talking down to anyone or acting like jerks, I had a great time and they seemed like a bunch of cool folks.Heck, I have never been in a raid before, much less a contested raid, The guild I am does a raid a couple times a week, but I can't make them due to my schedule and I walked away with some really nice AAXP and gear that will be very hard to upgrade as a solo-small group player. Then they took us on a raid zone (I forgot the name, but there were a lot of vampires) and again took no pieces for themselves giving everything away to the pick ups.</div></blockquote>I have also experienced this with hard core raid guilds. Not all of them mind you, but there are definately some top-notch raiding guilds out there that are as helpful as anyone else can be, and seem to quite well enjoy teaching people interested in raiding how to make it happen, by doing random pick-up raids-in-instances, and some of the t6/t7 contested raid content with pick-up raids.

pandemonium73

03-01-2008, 06:51 PM

<cite>bryldan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Honestly i think they should put a code in on ALL contested mob that you have to hail them first and if ANYONE in the raid has done him within like a couple months or so he will NOT agro. This will solve a lot of these uber guilds from sitting there camping these mobs and locking them down like they do.</blockquote>Zoinks -- This would actually hurt some of the casual raiders' ability to raid these mobs.Some guilds are too small to get a complete raid force together themselves, but manage to fill these spots with friends from other guilds.If those folks were in a situation where helping another guild or a pug raid would hurt their OWN guild's chances of killing such mobs, they would be way less likely to help others raid those mobs.

Kizee

03-01-2008, 09:10 PM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If it drops good loot then why not?All the high end raid guilds have alts camped at all the avatars and thats probably extreme case of random spawn . </blockquote>avatars are an example of mobs that higher end raid guilds would want to camp. </blockquote>What part of .......IF IT DROPS REALLY GOOD LOOT THEN OF COURSE HARDCORE PEOPLE WILL CAMP THEM.....do you not understand?If they put loot that the hardcore people will want then of course it will be out on their farm schedules. If they put crappy loot on it then they will leave it alone.

Vorlak

03-01-2008, 09:53 PM

I wonder if anybody at sony even understand simple logic. I would love to know how sony plans to stop GuildA (Mythical/Avatar Geared) from not wanting to kill a contested that sony says is for a casual guild? Dont say they will drop loot they wont want... it would have to have no effect on the item and not be benificial to anybody. All it means right now though is Contested ment for Causal guilds is GuildA will be able to kill with 2groups while Casual Guilds will be waiting for formation and get to watch the mob die time after time... i swear does anybody at sony even have a brain?

TuinalOfTheNexus

03-01-2008, 11:10 PM

It's a nice sentiment.But sentiments seem the only thing the current devs can get right.They've effectively screwed any guild other than the #1 hardcore on a server competing on avatars because<ul><li>They require epics</li><li>They added c*ckblock mobs to prevent anyone getting their epics in the next 2-3 weeks, unless they killed Drussk in a 2-day window between LUs</li><li>Hence the hardcore, previous-tier avatar guilds now have 3 weeks to practice on avatars and gear up off them before they 'fix' Drusshk, and will be 1-pulling them before any serious competition arrives</li></ul>They then throw casuals a bunch of 2nd-rate raid mobs, which will either<ul><li>Still be camped 24/7 by hardcore raid guilds</li><li>Drop loot so utterly useless nobody wants it (cloak of the green dragon anyone?)</li></ul>Net result? Probably a mass exile to the next big MMO that's released. I'm sure the devs might realise their mistake when the 24 people per server they spend most of their time catering for don't pay enough subscription fees to keep them in a job, but it'll be too late for EQ2 by then.The average raider right now is sick of wiping to Nexona and/or Drusshk. There are so many issues it's almost impossible to list them, but the idea of raiding for 8 months for VP loot which is utter sh*t, with the only decent raid loot off avatars that are on total lockdown by a single guild because the devs actually skew the live updates to give them an advantage, is just gonna make people leave en masse.I think the most depressing thing is many people would love and put their heart and soul into a job designing an MMO, and the half-[Removed for Content], nearsighted, favouritist approach going on at the moment is ruining what was, for all the whining, a very good MMO.

krrr

03-03-2008, 12:14 AM

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote><ul><li>They require epics</li><li>They added c*ckblock mobs to prevent anyone getting their epics in the next 2-3 weeks, unless they killed Drussk in a 2-day window between LUs</li><li>Hence the hardcore, previous-tier avatar guilds now have 3 weeks to practice on avatars and gear up off them before they 'fix' Drusshk, and will be 1-pulling them before any serious competition arrives</li></ul></blockquote><ul><li>No, but if you cant get epic, you`ll have no chance at avatar fight</li><li>Druushk is perfectly killable right now</li><li>Go ahead and try to make competition. One more time: epic are not requied for avatars.</li></ul>

InsertNeko

03-03-2008, 02:25 AM

<cite>TuinalOfTheNexus wrote:</cite><blockquote>Net result? Probably a mass exile to the next big MMO that's released. I'm sure the devs might realise their mistake when the 24 people per server they spend most of their time catering for don't pay enough subscription fees to keep them in a job, but it'll be too late for EQ2 by then.The average raider right now is sick of wiping to Nexona and/or Drusshk. There are so many issues it's almost impossible to list them, but the idea of raiding for 8 months for VP loot which is utter sh*t, with the only decent raid loot off avatars that are on total lockdown by a single guild because the devs actually skew the live updates to give them an advantage, is just gonna make people leave en masse.I think the most depressing thing is many people would love and put their heart and soul into a job designing an MMO, and the half-[Removed for Content], nearsighted, favouritist approach going on at the moment is ruining what was, for all the whining, a very good MMO.</blockquote>Sony's in denial, assuming no one will ever leave the game, no matter what people say or do. I've seen several good friends who'd been in raiding guilds quit in the last week over Druushk/Nexona. I've seen so many "Z is killable / No it's not" threads to make me sick as well. If you've killed it, grats you. If you've killed it, pretend for a minute that other people just may not be able to. The average eq2 raider's attitude of "well, if I can do it, anyone can and it doesn't need fixed" needs to stop. 10 pulls, and each pull had completely different results on Mob X, and yet when you kill it on that one random pull when everything was in your favor ... you run around going "lol, you guys it's so easy". Total bs. it makes me sad we just accept incompetence from SOE's bugged mobs and go "ok, it's cool. It'll get fixed in 6 weeks, while other guilds who fought bugged encounters run around w/loot they don't deserve". I used to love eq2, but ROK is just trying my patience. I'm holding my breath for the next MMO, in hopes of it being run by a company that will actually know [Removed for Content] is going on.

Gaige

03-03-2008, 03:17 AM

Rofl @ the whiners. Wah wah wah! Druushk is getting fixed with GU43. Nexona is perfectly doable as is. VP is the hardest instanced raid zone in the game its not supposed to be for casual raiders.As for complaining about avatars, how silly. They're only the hardest encounters in the entire game. They're the avatars of the gods afterall. Go figure that they are hard.I can't believe you guys can sit here and type with a straight face that SOE caters to 24 hardcore raiders per server. They hate us. We didn't get epics until 3 months after launch, we didn't get avatars until 3 months after launch, we effectively have one contested that isn't an avatar. The raid loot in this expansion is terrible when compared to what is available from solo/heroic quests/instances. Some of the best stuff in this game right now is easily acquired via a solo quest, a heroic instance or from your local crafter. The "grind" in this expansion was a total joke and totally skewed with rewarding casual solo players with tons of useful rewards, plat and experience.To have the audacity after that to complain because of the avatars, VP and mythicals, the few things raiders got (and two of the 3 MUCH after launch) just shows the greediness and sense of entitlement people of this game not only foster but try to encourage.You complain that the Dominus' won't have good enough loot while complaining you don't want us to kill it. You complain avatars are too hard. Do you honestly expect mobs that are designed for part time raiders to drop loot even equal to that which is available off the avatars of the GODS? Please.If you raid casually you will not kill or see all the raid content EQ2 has to offer. You'll have to settle for Protector's Realm, Thuuga, Overking, Venril Sathir, Pawbuster, Severillous, Trakasaurus Rex and the 4 Dominus'. I realize that is rough, only having that pittance of raid content for you guys who raid on weekends or a few times a week. Such a tragedy. Not to mention a nice fabled weapon which is easily acquired with a heroic group. You guys have it so bad, SOE caters the entire game to hardcore raider.... oh wait.Quit complaining. The truth is the majority of the reason casual/part time raiders don't succeed is because they have a defeatist attitude and give up before they try. Half the players in this thread are already counting themselves out of ever killing a Dominus and they aren't even in game yet.Nice self confidence...

Faelgalad

03-03-2008, 08:40 AM

New contested Epics for casual Raidcoms. Fine <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I will write simply petitions to our Gamemaster as soon as one of our Server Raidguilds on Innovation kills a Dominus. I guess I will get some lame response, instead of some harsh punishment of those guilds that deny the rest of the server content. Could some developer promise some harsh punishments for locking down domini, like a month -10 Level debuff uncurable for those raidguilds in overland zones? After 3 Months the "lock" on Severilous has been lifted and my raidcom gets it first shots on the Green Dragon Shield. Would be better to registrate Raidcoms and give them Items to spawn the guys x times per Month. End of Problem. Maybe we will work together with an other more casual Raidcom to get enough people together for kills of Domini. Also it's an tactical drawback mixing forces not used to play together.

Rainmare

03-03-2008, 10:59 AM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rofl @ the whiners. Wah wah wah! Druushk is getting fixed with GU43. Nexona is perfectly doable as is. VP is the hardest instanced raid zone in the game its not supposed to be for casual raiders.As for complaining about avatars, how silly. They're only the hardest encounters in the entire game. They're the avatars of the gods afterall. Go figure that they are hard.I can't believe you guys can sit here and type with a straight face that SOE caters to 24 hardcore raiders per server. They hate us. We didn't get epics until 3 months after launch, we didn't get avatars until 3 months after launch, we effectively have one contested that isn't an avatar. The raid loot in this expansion is terrible when compared to what is available from solo/heroic quests/instances. Some of the best stuff in this game right now is easily acquired via a solo quest, a heroic instance or from your local crafter. The "grind" in this expansion was a total joke and totally skewed with rewarding casual solo players with tons of useful rewards, plat and experience.To have the audacity after that to complain because of the avatars, VP and mythicals, the few things raiders got (and two of the 3 MUCH after launch) just shows the greediness and sense of entitlement people of this game not only foster but try to encourage.You complain that the Dominus' won't have good enough loot while complaining you don't want us to kill it. You complain avatars are too hard. Do you honestly expect mobs that are designed for part time raiders to drop loot even equal to that which is available off the avatars of the GODS? Please.If you raid casually you will not kill or see all the raid content EQ2 has to offer. You'll have to settle for Protector's Realm, Thuuga, Overking, Venril Sathir, Pawbuster, Severillous, Trakasaurus Rex and the 4 Dominus'. I realize that is rough, only having that pittance of raid content for you guys who raid on weekends or a few times a week. Such a tragedy. Not to mention a nice fabled weapon which is easily acquired with a heroic group. You guys have it so bad, SOE caters the entire game to hardcore raider.... oh wait.Quit complaining. The truth is the majority of the reason casual/part time raiders don't succeed is because they have a defeatist attitude and give up before they try. Half the players in this thread are already counting themselves out of ever killing a Dominus and they aren't even in game yet.Nice self confidence...</blockquote>1. we are complaining that as of right now, pretty much, only the 24/7 call list hardcore uber raid guilds have and can get thier mythical epics. Not that encounters are hard, but that they are [Removed for Content] near impossibly hard and/or require serious luck to beat. and problem that gee, didn't seem to occur until at least 1 of the uberguilds had all their mythicals and were getting thier ALTS thier mythicals nightly.2. the Avatars are the hardest fights. they also drop the best loot. they are also on a timed spawn. the only guilds that will be able to kill them in 1 or 2 pulls by the time the VP encounters are fixed will be the 24/7 uber raid guilds. thus, they will be on complete lockdown before any of this supposed 'competition' even gets a chance to LEARN the encounter to attempt to beat it.3. the complaint about the Dominus is very simple. if it drops decent loot, the 24/7 raid guilds will lock it down and have it on farm status before even 1/10th of the casual raiders of a server even know it's location. it would have to drop gear that is so poor, that your uber raiders won't want it. and that INCLUDES those uber raiders alts. lets put it this way. if each Dominus dropped and item that was called 'Phylactry of the Dominus', that might be say, 3rd or 4th best charm slot outside of Avatar/VP...can you honestly tell me that a 24/7 uber guild won't have that thing on lock down, even if the phylactery was a 1 out of 8 kill loot drop?That's what the casuals are talking about. Not that you got your mythicals (and be [Removed for Content] lucky they even gave them to you with the fires and other issues they had with all your [Removed for Content] about it. Talk about ungrateful and impatient) but because we find that an encounter that is contested apparently has to go one of two ways. method 1: the encounter drops loot so poor that even casual raiders will prefer to do PR/Thugga/Venril/Overking/Pawbuster rather than them, or 2: it drops a few really nice items, and the 24/7 raid guild has it locked down 2 days after it goes live, and it will be unable to be attempted until the raiders and the raiders alts of these guilds have farmed it for everything they can possibly want.

krrr

03-03-2008, 01:44 PM

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Rofl @ the whiners. Wah wah wah! Druushk is getting fixed with GU43. Nexona is perfectly doable as is. VP is the hardest instanced raid zone in the game its not supposed to be for casual raiders.As for complaining about avatars, how silly. They're only the hardest encounters in the entire game. They're the avatars of the gods afterall. Go figure that they are hard.I can't believe you guys can sit here and type with a straight face that SOE caters to 24 hardcore raiders per server. They hate us. We didn't get epics until 3 months after launch, we didn't get avatars until 3 months after launch, we effectively have one contested that isn't an avatar. The raid loot in this expansion is terrible when compared to what is available from solo/heroic quests/instances. Some of the best stuff in this game right now is easily acquired via a solo quest, a heroic instance or from your local crafter. The "grind" in this expansion was a total joke and totally skewed with rewarding casual solo players with tons of useful rewards, plat and experience.To have the audacity after that to complain because of the avatars, VP and mythicals, the few things raiders got (and two of the 3 MUCH after launch) just shows the greediness and sense of entitlement people of this game not only foster but try to encourage.You complain that the Dominus' won't have good enough loot while complaining you don't want us to kill it. You complain avatars are too hard. Do you honestly expect mobs that are designed for part time raiders to drop loot even equal to that which is available off the avatars of the GODS? Please.If you raid casually you will not kill or see all the raid content EQ2 has to offer. You'll have to settle for Protector's Realm, Thuuga, Overking, Venril Sathir, Pawbuster, Severillous, Trakasaurus Rex and the 4 Dominus'. I realize that is rough, only having that pittance of raid content for you guys who raid on weekends or a few times a week. Such a tragedy. Not to mention a nice fabled weapon which is easily acquired with a heroic group. You guys have it so bad, SOE caters the entire game to hardcore raider.... oh wait.Quit complaining. The truth is the majority of the reason casual/part time raiders don't succeed is because they have a defeatist attitude and give up before they try. Half the players in this thread are already counting themselves out of ever killing a Dominus and they aren't even in game yet.Nice self confidence...</blockquote>1. we are complaining that as of right now, pretty much, only the 24/7 call list hardcore uber raid guilds have and can get thier mythical epics. Not that encounters are hard, but that they are [I cannot control my vocabulary] near impossibly hard and/or require serious luck to beat. and problem that gee, didn't seem to occur until at least 1 of the uberguilds had all their mythicals and were getting thier ALTS thier mythicals nightly.2. the Avatars are the hardest fights. they also drop the best loot. they are also on a timed spawn. the only guilds that will be able to kill them in 1 or 2 pulls by the time the VP encounters are fixed will be the 24/7 uber raid guilds. thus, they will be on complete lockdown before any of this supposed 'competition' even gets a chance to LEARN the encounter to attempt to beat it.3. the complaint about the Dominus is very simple. if it drops decent loot, the 24/7 raid guilds will lock it down and have it on farm status before even 1/10th of the casual raiders of a server even know it's location. it would have to drop gear that is so poor, that your uber raiders won't want it. and that INCLUDES those uber raiders alts. lets put it this way. if each Dominus dropped and item that was called 'Phylactry of the Dominus', that might be say, 3rd or 4th best charm slot outside of Avatar/VP...can you honestly tell me that a 24/7 uber guild won't have that thing on lock down, even if the phylactery was a 1 out of 8 kill loot drop?That's what the casuals are talking about. Not that you got your mythicals (and be [I cannot control my vocabulary] lucky they even gave them to you with the fires and other issues they had with all your [I cannot control my vocabulary] about it. Talk about ungrateful and impatient) but because we find that an encounter that is contested apparently has to go one of two ways. method 1: the encounter drops loot so poor that even casual raiders will prefer to do PR/Thugga/Venril/Overking/Pawbuster rather than them, or 2: it drops a few really nice items, and the 24/7 raid guild has it locked down 2 days after it goes live, and it will be unable to be attempted until the raiders and the raiders alts of these guilds have farmed it for everything they can possibly want.</blockquote><ol><li>Epics are designed that way. Not for everybody, if you can`t get it - it`s not for you. Improve you playing skill or forget about Mythical tag.</li><li>Try and learn encounters now, nothing is stoping you. And NO, you DON`T NEED MYTHICAL WEAPONS TO DEFEAT AVATARS</li><li>If it`s drops something like that, nobody from hard-core guild will ever bother to camp it.</li></ol>Basicaly you whine, not about how devs favor hard-core raiders, but about how they don`t give you cookies. All your arguments are about how you miss weapon with MYTHICAL tag. <ol><li> </li></ol>

Hirofortis

03-03-2008, 03:30 PM

Well it seems to me that the contested *2 mobs are up pretty regular on my server. I have seen the mobs up for a solid 8 hours or more before someone goes in and kills them. Now maybe the UBER riad guilds on our server have better things to do or maybe they just not worried about the loot from these. Realistically the main reasons to lock down a contested is uber loot and money. Raid content right now has finally made it worth raiding as you can actaully make a small profit and although the loot from the X2 can be nice, it is by no means the best out there. More targets should give some fun things to hit. Now one thing that would be nice is if the devs would set up a random spawn timer on all contested mobs. In addition make sure ther eare enough contested mobs that it would be very hard for any guild to lock them down completly. Now are we still going to have locked down mobs. Heck yea!! But I really don't see the big raiding guilds locking them all down all the time. Simple fact is they only have so many people, and being a raid guild it is usually less then the so called causual guilds. At least any casual guild that wants to hit a raid target in the first place. Pick up raids, lol they are lucky to clear a t7 zone most of the time, let alone even trying for something outside of that, so bringing up pick up raids is just someone trying to find something wrong with the system. I am actaully looking forward to trying to take down some of these mobs but the real loot comes from the progression, so I doubt you will see the uber guilds lineing up to kill the mob. Devs, please set up the mobs on random spawn timers. That way it will be very hard to lock down any mob. I would expect a random number gen upon death written to the table could work easy enough since you already code in the respawn timer. A simple modification would easily allow the field to be changed to accomadate this.Have fun all!!

Vorlak

03-03-2008, 03:44 PM

it is true you don't need mythicals to kill "Some" avatars... take valor for instance, the main guild on our server wacked him in 1 pull, because he basically didn't change from last expansion to this one, yet war remains unkilled... so in that since no you don't need mythicals for some, but you cannot tell me it wouldn't help improve your odds against them... if you did you would be lying so soooosh. granted Sony doesn't know how to test, tune or implement anything right the first, second or hell we are lucky by the third time but come on we are all here for the same reason... to enjoy ourselves for a few hours a day, if you are taking this game way to serious and think you have more right to something over someone else then you probably need to seek professional help. yes I have killed nexona, yes I hate the fight. I think its doable but has a large amount of luck but the point of this thread is about contested in the overland zones not about the retuning of VP mobs or mythicals.

Sabutai

03-03-2008, 03:55 PM

<cite>Vorlak wrote:</cite><blockquote>it is true you don't need mythicals to kill "Some" avatars... take valor for instance, the main guild on our server wacked him in 1 pull, because he basically didn't change from last expansion to this one, yet war remains unkilled... so in that since no you don't need mythicals for some, but you cannot tell me it wouldn't help improve your odds against them... if you did you would be lying so soooosh. granted Sony doesn't know how to test, tune or implement anything right the first, second or hell we are lucky by the third time but come on we are all here for the same reason... to enjoy ourselves for a few hours a day, if you are taking this game way to serious and think you have more right to something over someone else then you probably need to seek professional help. yes I have killed nexona, yes I hate the fight. I think its doable but has a large amount of luck but the point of this thread is about contested in the overland zones not about the retuning of VP mobs or mythicals. </blockquote>Should probably bring your argument to include which avatars are currently 'not' bugged and those that aren't. The ones that are killable are Fear, Tranquility, Flame, and Valor. And you don't need mythical weapons to kill these. To a larger degree mischief is the same as last expansion as well. But don't bring War into this, as he's like trakanon where his script sounds cool but is borked beyond belief and currently unkillable in its current state, with or without mythicals.

Calogrenant

03-03-2008, 04:06 PM

Exactly, is quite simple and the poster before me said it perfectly: It's about the overland contested mobs.It's not a discussion about who has what. It's about Sony saying: "We'll place contested overland to give casual guilds some targets", yet those casual guilds won't ever get them.Here's an example to show this problem applied in the real world:- President of 1st world country says: "We're sending food to these african nations in need"- Food supplies get stolen by local warlord, never make it to those who need it.- Someone points out the fact during a UN meeting.And if you mix in some of the replies seen above, I'd have to add:- Local warlord shows up at UN meeting and tells everyone to shup up, stealing what was sent to them was ok because they already got this and that to feed from.Now, parallelisms aside, what's important to understand is that no matter what sort of content is out there, the developers still wanted to add a solution for casual raiding guilds, they state it in their message, it's clear: The purpose of these pieces of code is to help casual raiding guilds. But, as we all know, it's going to fail.So all of those who show up saying: "yeah it's ok you already had these and those easy quests and instances so we're gonna gank those mobs" are confirming in the best possible way that the developer's plan is going to fail at its intended purpose.Hope it became clearer now. Cheers

Trojenn

03-03-2008, 05:34 PM

SHUT UP ALREADYI am sick and tired of hearing the gripes and complaints on contested mobs...I have sat here and read every f***** post on this subject and it is pathetic.. Instead of offering ideas on how to fix it (yes some people have) you would rather gripe and complain back and forth on it not being fair or some stupid s**** like that. In my opinion there is only one solution to this,PUT LOCK OUTS ON CONTESTED MOBS!!!!!After your guild or anyone in your guild takes down a contested mob everyone in your guild would recieve a lockout timer on that mob not allowing you to kill it for a certain amount of time..(And yes the timer would go to everyone so people would not just leave guild to go kill it... and it would keep players honest to there guild and keep them from raiding or killing contested outside of guild... Talk about being [Removed for Content]... get home from work,,, Hey guys King Kongs up.. lets go kill it.. :10 mins later raid formed and ready for kill: error message.. you currently are locked from this encounter for 5 days 23 hour ...... )Back on subject... Say T-Rex has a timer of 3 days... it went down at 7:30pm Central time on Jan 3 2008... theoreticaly it would be back up 3 days later at whatever time it spawned 3 days ago... so on and so forth.. The lock out on it would be something similiar to 7 Days.. thus allowing everyone around to atleast get some fair shot at it.. Now your right would it still be camped, yes.. Would it still be harder for Casual Raid Guilds to get too, yes. but is it alot easier to do, yes....This way mobs would still be open to everyone in some shape form or fasion and would allow smaller guilds a better chance at getting to them..OH and FYI for those who think Higher End Raid Guilds don't farm the lower contested is full of ><><. Ok not going to lie there are some out there who do not care but alot of them will kill them for (Transmute Items or Plat they drop) 20 plat per kill for the x2 in Jungle that can be 1 grped.. alot of money to be had there...so in the end................LOCK OUT TIMERS ON CONTESTED MOBS !!!!!!!!!!

Vendolyn

03-03-2008, 05:38 PM

^ I couldn't read any of that. The red type on black really hurts my eyes. I tried to read what was between those lines, but I just couldn't ><

Trojenn

03-03-2008, 05:43 PM

<cite>Vendolyn@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ I couldn't read any of that. The red type on black really hurts my eyes. I tried to read what was between those lines, but I just couldn't ><</blockquote>So i take it you do not agree with my Idea.. eh... if not .. what is so wrong or bad about it.. you have to wait on lock outs for Raid/Grp why should Epic Contested be any different. (Its not like we don't kill them both for the same thing..)

Vendolyn

03-03-2008, 05:57 PM

<cite>121 dirtybird wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Vendolyn@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>^ I couldn't read any of that. The red type on black really hurts my eyes. I tried to read what was between those lines, but I just couldn't ><</blockquote>So i take it you do not agree with my Idea.. eh... if not .. what is so wrong or bad about it.. you have to wait on lock outs for Raid/Grp why should Epic Contested be any different. (Its not like we don't kill them both for the same thing..)</blockquote>Whether or not I agree with you isn't an issue, it's the giant red text. Red text appears to be floating and jittery, and has ever since I started perma wearing glasses a couple of months ago. I know you have a point you'd like to make, but it might be easier on us if we can read what you have to say.Also, SOE mods do not like the reposting so much (I saw you quoted your previous post).

krrr

03-03-2008, 05:57 PM

<cite>121 dirtybird wrote:</cite><blockquote>SHUT UP ALREADYI am sick and tired of hearing the gripes and complaints on contested mobs...I have sat here and read every f***** post on this subject and it is pathetic.. Instead of offering ideas on how to fix it (yes some people have) you would rather gripe and complain back and forth on it not being fair or some stupid s**** like that. In my opinion there is only one solution to this,PUT LOCK OUTS ON CONTESTED MOBS!!!!!After your guild or anyone in your guild takes down a contested mob everyone in your guild would recieve a lockout timer on that mob not allowing you to kill it for a certain amount of time..(And yes the timer would go to everyone so people would not just leave guild to go kill it... and it would keep players honest to there guild and keep them from raiding or killing contested outside of guild... Talk about being [Removed for Content]... get home from work,,, Hey guys King Kongs up.. lets go kill it.. :10 mins later raid formed and ready for kill: error message.. you currently are locked from this encounter for 5 days 23 hour ...... )Back on subject... Say T-Rex has a timer of 3 days... it went down at 7:30pm Central time on Jan 3 2008... theoreticaly it would be back up 3 days later at whatever time it spawned 3 days ago... so on and so forth.. The lock out on it would be something similiar to 7 Days.. thus allowing everyone around to atleast get some fair shot at it.. Now your right would it still be camped, yes.. Would it still be harder for Casual Raid Guilds to get too, yes. but is it alot easier to do, yes....This way mobs would still be open to everyone in some shape form or fasion and would allow smaller guilds a better chance at getting to them..OH and FYI for those who think Higher End Raid Guilds don't farm the lower contested is full of ><><. Ok not going to lie there are some out there who do not care but alot of them will kill them for (Transmute Items or Plat they drop) 20 plat per kill for the x2 in Jungle that can be 1 grped.. alot of money to be had there...so in the end................LOCK OUT TIMERS ON CONTESTED MOBS !!!!!!!!!!</blockquote>I got perfect "fix" for you. Forget about contested.

Gaige

03-03-2008, 06:06 PM

<cite>121 dirtybird wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOCK OUT TIMERS ON CONTESTED MOBS !!!!!!!!!!</blockquote>I hate to rain on your parade but putting a lock out timer on a "contested" mob means its not contested. Its just instanced in an overland zone. So yeah, definately don't see that as a valid solution.

EQ2Luv

03-03-2008, 06:51 PM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>121 dirtybird wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOCK OUT TIMERS ON CONTESTED MOBS !!!!!!!!!!</blockquote>I hate to rain on your parade but putting a lock out timer on a "contested" mob means its not contested. Its just instanced in an overland zone. So yeah, definately don't see that as a valid solution.</blockquote>That's actually not what it means. If you use a 3 day respawn mob with 7 day lockout as an example, that mob is still contested because not everyone on the server can kill him once a week. Only 2 guilds can kill that mob per week (roughly) and hence if multiple (three or more) guilds wanted the mob they would have to compete for it (which means its contested). This suggestion would in theory allow more than one guild to have a crack at contested mobs, although I think it has too many technical limitations to be implemented. Plus, the 24/7 guilds would probably just use alt raids to take out the ones that spawn during their lockout time.

Gaige

03-03-2008, 07:28 PM

So its only "contested" for certain players? That sounds like favortism. Contested is either contested by everyone on the server or it isn't. Locking out certain players for being successful is lame. They have instanced content for a reason. Contested is contested, and all of these arbitrary rules just take the content from being contested to being instanced w/o having to click a door to get into the instance.

darkwillie

03-03-2008, 07:47 PM

<cite>EQ2Luv wrote:</cite>That's actually not what it means. If you use a 3 day respawn mob with 7 day lockout as an example, that mob is still contested because not everyone on the server can kill him once a week. Only 2 guilds can kill that mob per week (roughly) and hence if multiple (three or more) guilds wanted the mob they would have to compete for it (which means its contested). This suggestion would in theory allow more than one guild to have a crack at contested mobs, although I think it has too many technical limitations to be implemented. Plus, the 24/7 guilds would probably just use alt raids to take out the ones that spawn during their lockout time. This is what i ment by making them contested... It will be partly contested to those who's timers are open at the same time.. those who are locked out will have a contest with others who are locked out when timer resets.. Your not losing any contest and and it allows a larger margin for those less fortunate guilds to get in on the action..Tempation....

Gaige

03-03-2008, 08:18 PM

Which isn't contested at all.

EQ2Luv

03-03-2008, 08:29 PM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>So its only "contested" for certain players? That sounds like favortism. Contested is either contested by everyone on the server or it isn't. Locking out certain players for being successful is lame. They have instanced content for a reason. Contested is contested, and all of these arbitrary rules just take the content from being contested to being instanced w/o having to click a door to get into the instance.</blockquote>It was contested for those who are locked out when they killed it and got the lock out. It's still contested for those who didn't yet kill the mob that week, because they must compete with the others who didn't yet get the kill. So no, it's not contested only for certain players, it's contested for all players. I don't see how it is favortism either. Everyone has a shot at the mob, this would just give more people opportunities without for example having to be on call 24/7. The people who get locked out would not be 'getting screwed' if they lowered the repop time and set the lockout to the old repop time. You would have only gotten one mob per X days either way. In PVP you'd still be free to mess with other guilds that are trying to get the mob while you are locked out.The only lame thing from the perspective of those who normally get the mob killed is that they couldn't have everything on exclusive lockdown. It's questionable whether developers actually want a game where that objective can be attained.

Gaige

03-03-2008, 08:34 PM

I think you're missing the entire point of contested. Your "solution" is akin to only letting a sportsteam win one championship every 5 years. Whoops the Giants can't have the Super Bowl on lockdown, they won it last year, fair is fair...That isn't competition.Besides, where would it end? If locking out certain guilds for 7 days didn't enable all the casual guilds a shot at the Dominus' maybe SOE could setup a round robin where a list of all guilds with 24 or more players were on it and after you guild killed it once you wouldn't be able to kill it until every guild on the list had killed it once. Fair is fair right?

Calogrenant

03-03-2008, 09:12 PM

Well going to reply again since obviously some folks don't care to read what's it all about. Hell I'd say not even the first two or three replies.- First, what orginates the thread is the developer announcement that clearly states that some mobs are going to be put into the game so "casual raiding guilds with difficulties" can have raiding experiences.Now let's say that again: The developers aim this new content at CASUAL RAIDING GUILDS WITH DIFFICULTIES.I hope the developer's intention, which they so clearly put into the next update's notes, is acknowledged now.- Second, that obviously, said content is never going to reach those the programmers aimed their coding towards.I'm sorry for being iterative, it's just, from what I've read, some folks do require some help with the point getting through.Anyway, bottom line, the developers are announcing something that WON'T HAVE THE EFFECT THEY SEEK.Now, some remarks:- They didn't just say: "New contested mobs hit the game".- They didn't just say: "We want to have more competition between raiders".- They didn't just say: "We want to fill a gap in general content".No, they did not.So this is why it's very important to PAY ATTENTION AT THE DEVELOPER'S STATED INTENTION.Because THERE is where the problem resides, WE ARE POINTING OUT THAT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WON'T WORK!.I just don't know how to clarify it any further.

EQ2Luv

03-03-2008, 09:51 PM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think you're missing the entire point of contested. Your "solution" is akin to only letting a sportsteam win one championship every 5 years. Whoops the Giants can't have the Super Bowl on lockdown, they won it last year, fair is fair...That isn't competition.</blockquote>There are quite a few problems with your analogy. In football do they tell the teams 'okay the game is going to start sometime in the next 72 hours. Wait here and listen for us to blow the whistle at a random time.'? Plus, football teams are able to practice their sport between matches. If one guild can keep a mob locked down, most guilds don't even have a chance to learn the encounter. Moreover, the Domini are aimed at *CASUAL GUILDS*. If uber guilds target the domini too, then it's not exactly an even match is it? It's like putting the Giants against amateurs. With the proposed system, the Giants can win their superbowl, and then the amateur teams can compete amongst themselves the next time the mob pops. The proposed system is more like a way to give people a chance at 2nd and 3rd place. Even though the 2nd and 3rd place prizes are the same as 1st, it's not the round-robin, everyone gets a kill system that you say it will degenerate into. In short, it still is competition. It's just not the form of competition that you are used to with contested raiding.

Gaige

03-04-2008, 12:21 AM

It all boils down to the definition of a contested mob in EQ2. A contested raid target in EQ2 is a target that spawns every few days in an overland zone that is up until a raid kills it. The first raid to successfully kill it gets the loot. The next time it spawns the loot goes to the raid who successfully kills it. So on and so on. That is contested. All these things you guys are referring to changes the mob into something that isn't a contested raid mob.These mobs are like Sev/Trex. They're contested raid targets that are low in difficulty (and thus probably contain crummy loot) that probably respawn fast. They're not super hard like the avatars, so they're a contested target that even casual raiders can try to compete for. But they have to try to compete. If they were just given to the casuals, they wouldn't be contested.It seems you guys are implying that because the devs stated they're "casual raid guild difficulty" you think they mean "casual raid guild exclusive". Contested is contested. Period.

Noaani

03-04-2008, 04:42 AM

<cite>Menon@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well going to reply again since obviously some folks don't care to read what's it all about. Hell I'd say not even the first two or three replies.- First, what orginates the thread is the developer announcement that clearly states that some mobs are going to be put into the game so "casual raiding guilds with difficulties" can have raiding experiences.Now let's say that again: The developers aim this new content at CASUAL RAIDING GUILDS WITH DIFFICULTIES.I hope the developer's intention, which they so clearly put into the next update's notes, is acknowledged now.- Second, that obviously, said content is never going to reach those the programmers aimed their coding towards.I'm sorry for being iterative, it's just, from what I've read, some folks do require some help with the point getting through.Anyway, bottom line, the developers are announcing something that WON'T HAVE THE EFFECT THEY SEEK.Now, some remarks:- They didn't just say: "New contested mobs hit the game".- They didn't just say: "We want to have more competition between raiders".- They didn't just say: "We want to fill a gap in general content".No, they did not.So this is why it's very important to PAY ATTENTION AT THE DEVELOPER'S STATED INTENTION.Because THERE is where the problem resides, WE ARE POINTING OUT THAT WHAT THEY WANT TO DO WON'T WORK!.I just don't know how to clarify it any further.</blockquote>You need to re-read the test update notes.They did not state, as you are trying to claim, that the Domini are aimed at "casual raiding guilds with difficulties" but rather "They are contested raid targets in overland RoK zones intended for casual raid guilds in difficulty."Put another way, SoE has aimed the difficulty of these mobs at casual raiding guilds, not at hardcore raiding guilds. Here is a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/preList.m?topic_id=409199&post_id=4571691" target="_blank">link</a> to the post, so you can verify this for yourself,In your own words... it's very important to PAY ATTENTION AT THE DEVELOPER'S STATED INTENTION. Because THERE is where the problem residesIf your only complaint about these mobs is that you think they are aimed at "casual raiding guilds with difficulties" then you need noy fret any longer! as you simply missread the test update notes. If you have other issues with this addition, please feel free to share them with the rest of us.Edit: in effect, they are saying that these mobs are desinged to fill a spot that they left out of the initial release of RoK, which is a lower end contested mob.These mobs will fill the role that PPH and Huricanus both filled in their respective expansions.

Calogrenant

03-04-2008, 12:05 PM

Holy lord...Noaani, hello, I'm the guy who started the thread. Not sure if you knew.Ever since the thread, well, started, I've been saying that developers are going to fail at their intended purpose because 24/7 guilds are going to keep these mobs on lockdown...So no one but top of the line guilds are going to have a shot at a mob that, according to the devs' words, was meant to be raided by casual raiding guilds. And this is wrong!, because, well, they're working, coding, testing, a piece of content that's never gonna make it to its intended users.No matter how much content there is for this or that target, they stated clearly who are they working for with this addition. And they will fail. And that's why I emphazised the problem.Edit: And even more, in the same post you quoted, and if you would've read what other folks replied in the thread, I stated clearly, it's not just another mob, it's something they're adding so casual guilds can have something to raid! And I said this because quite a few hardcore raiders showed up saying it was ok to keep them locked down because they're contested! And that's the whole #$%$& problem!!So honestly, I don't know what else to say, I started the thread, even replied a couple times, always in the same position, and you tell me I got to read the notes again? Wow... just... wow...

Freliant

03-04-2008, 12:17 PM

Contested Vs. Camped.The contested portion means that any raid of 24 people should "technically" have a chance at killing the raid target in the overland zone. Granted, all these mobs are contested.The Camped portion means that while a mob is technically available to all the raiding groups of the server, in REALITY, it is only available to the raid group that keeps it on lockdown.So: the purpose of overland contested is to give all raids a chance at getting overland raid loot, the reality is that this will not happen because the mobs will be camped.Is there really much more than this to say about this subject? **((aside from waiting for the actual outcome))**

Noaani

03-04-2008, 12:21 PM

<cite>Menon@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>Holy lord...Noaani, hello, I'm the guy who started the thread. Not sure if you knew.Ever since the thread, well, started, I've been saying that developers are going to fail at their intended purpose because 24/7 guilds are going to keep these mobs on lockdown...So no one but top of the line guilds are going to have a shot at a mob that, according to the devs' words, was meant to be raided by casual raiding guilds. And this is wrong!, because, well, they're working, coding, testing, a piece of content that's never gonna make it to its intended users.No matter how much content there is for this or that target, they stated clearly who are they working for with this addition. And they will fail. And that's why I emphazised the problem.So honestly, I don't know what else to say, I started the thread, even replied a couple times, always in the same position, and you tell me I got to read the notes again? Wow... just... wow...</blockquote>Again, where did they say that these mobs were aimed at casual raid guilds?They said the difficulty of them was tailored so that casual raid guilds would have a chance at being able to kill them, should they assemble and pull before a more experianced raid force shows up. That does not mean they are intended soley for casual raid guilds to kill.Once again, these mobs fill the roll that PPH and Huricanus filled in their respective expansions, as opposed to Contested Mayong, Three Princes and The Mutigenic Outcast. The former mobs were easily killed by the first raid force to get to them, for the most part. The latter were much harder to kill, and any but the most co-ordernated of guilds would have trouble with them. The former will killed several times on most servers by casual guilds (and even by pickup raids) while they were current tier/expansion mobs.These mobs WILL be killable by casual raiders, if they are their first. This is as opposed to the Tangrin, whom will not be killed by a casual raid force until the level cap is raised.Mobs like Tangrin are not really true contested mobs, as there is only really one guild per server that would be capable of killing them. For the most part, they could leave them up for days and simply get to them when they have the time, and no one else would kill it, as no one else is able too. The Domini, however (as with Hurricanus and PPH), is a mob that multiple guilds will be able to kill, and should the top guild on each server decide to leave one up for a few hours (as they would do with Tangrin), then you can bet they will miss out on the kill to a casual guild/pickup raid.And yes, I am aware you are the OP. I did not tell you to read this thread again, I suggested you read the test update notes that mention these mobs since you managed to gain some sort of false pretence from them the first time (i even linked the post in question to make it easier for you!).

Calogrenant

03-04-2008, 01:04 PM

I don't see how that difference affects the issues at hand. As a matter of fact, contested (but not really) mobs, like avatars, were also ingame before RoK, with some more released after RoK, yet no one ever considered them targets of a casual guild.Now "aimed" or "intended", mean the same thing here. Devs want casual guilds to have a mob they won't ever and that's the whole problem.Even if they drop legendary gear they'll be an easy and fast way of acquiring transmuting fodder for hardcore guilds. And if they drop masters, then you'll have to look them up on the web to see how they look like.

Ferunnia

03-04-2008, 01:56 PM

Wow....just wow. To the OP...do you have a guild full of psychopaths as the best raiding guild on your server? Otherwise, no one cares nearly as much as you think about locking casual guilds away from contested mobs. If you don't like the fact that hardcore raiding guilds get all these kills, then do something about it. I remember when in T5 half the raiding in the game was contested. I was in one of my server's top 3 raiding guilds. We raced other hardcore raiding guilds to contested. If a casual guild got there, we'd watch till they either beat it or not then either walk away or 1 pull it. There was no animosity though, as you seem to think hardcore raiders have for casuals. You seem to have more animosity than everyone else in this thread...all aimed at hardcore people. Learn to read, too. They only stated how hard the mob is, not that it should be limited to casuals killing it. It means that casuals can kill it...that means...muster up, get your [Removed for Content] to the mob, and kill it. Who cares if the hardcore guild has someone camping it. You can still beat them there if you have enough people online when the mob pops. Edit: And it's not like 300 people won't be spamming the chat channels saying such and such mob's up in such and such zone, so you don't even have to camp contested most of the time.

EQ2Luv

03-04-2008, 02:30 PM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>It all boils down to the definition of a contested mob in EQ2. A contested raid target in EQ2 is a target that spawns every few days in an overland zone that is up until a raid kills it. The first raid to successfully kill it gets the loot. The next time it spawns the loot goes to the raid who successfully kills it. So on and so on. That is contested. All these things you guys are referring to changes the mob into something that isn't a contested raid mob.</blockquote>The proposed system actually fits the definition you just gave. However, this is not really the definition of contested, it's just the way the system has worked in the past. No one said it should be casual exclusive. They said that if you don't want one guild to be able to lock down every mob then do XYZ. If you see letting multiple (but a bounded number of) guilds kill a mob each week as identical to 'casuals only' then I just don't know what to say. Again I'm not endorsing this idea, but I think it's a system that's at least deserving of thought, and doesn't fit into any of the boxes you have been trying to put it into Gaigex.

Calogrenant

03-04-2008, 02:39 PM

<cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow....just wow. To the OP...do you have a guild full of psychopaths as the best raiding guild on your server? Otherwise, no one cares nearly as much as you think about locking casual guilds away from contested mobs. If you don't like the fact that hardcore raiding guilds get all these kills, then do something about it. I remember when in T5 half the raiding in the game was contested. I was in one of my server's top 3 raiding guilds. We raced other hardcore raiding guilds to contested. If a casual guild got there, we'd watch till they either beat it or not then either walk away or 1 pull it. There was no animosity though, as you seem to think hardcore raiders have for casuals. You seem to have more animosity than everyone else in this thread...all aimed at hardcore people. Learn to read, too. They only stated how hard the mob is, not that it should be limited to casuals killing it. It means that casuals can kill it...that means...muster up, get your [Removed for Content] to the mob, and kill it. Who cares if the hardcore guild has someone camping it. You can still beat them there if you have enough people online when the mob pops. Edit: And it's not like 300 people won't be spamming the chat channels saying such and such mob's up in such and such zone, so you don't even have to camp contested most of the time.</blockquote>Nah, there's no animosity here. No one said hardcore raiders were... dunno... a bunch of [I cannot control my vocabulary] or something. They just do business, as everyone would. Oh and the thread is about developers coming up with something that sounds good in theory but won't work in practice.Everything else you said has been posted and countered countless times along the thread. Couple that up with your mild personal attacks, and despite your otherwise active forum participation, you sir certainly end up looking like a forum troll.

Ferunnia

03-04-2008, 03:18 PM

Mild personal attacks have become my new forte. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /> Got a bit of a talking to for slamming some [Removed for Content] on the fury boards a bit back. The point is, yes I reiterated, because it seems the issue isn't sinking in.Limiting how often any guild can kill a contested other than through respawn timers is completely different than the way the system has been impletemented for over three years. That's why Gaige is telling you it's different, over and over. Because it is. Rather than griping about contested being on lockdown, gripe about the lack of casual epic instances or even the lack of instanced group zones. Also, if I was a troll, I wouldn't be interested in anything being said in this thread, nor would I have read anything said, I'd have picked a few lines from one of the last two posts and commented on that. I read every word of the thread, no matter how naive or self centered and made a comment on it. Even toned my normal stfuyoudumbassnoob (I'm sure you get the idea) tone down just to try and understand why the heck you're so worried about not being able to get to contested. People besides the hardcore guilds have killed contested (maybe not every time they're up, granted) since release. Besides, the devs don't much worry about gripes this soon into something they've made. In a couple of months if all your fears come true they might consider doing something. That's the same path the dev team's taken since release, and I seriously doubt that's gonna change unless someone happens to fire the whole management team for the SoE team working on EQ2. Edit: Typo or two.

Gaige

03-04-2008, 04:07 PM

<cite>Menon@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh and the thread is about developers coming up with something that sounds good in theory but won't work in practice.</blockquote></blockquote>In theory they made some contested x4 raid guilds that aren't very hard, so that less experienced (casual) raid guilds would be capable of killing them. Like Sev and TRex. This is, to say, different that the avatars who are level 88 and totally out of the realm of almost every guild playing this game.They never said that the mobs were exclusively for casual guilds. You read into that. They simply were denoting the difficulty of the mobs in a way people could easily understand (or so they thought).So instead of having absolutely no chance at these contested (like the avatars) they've made them easier so that if a casual guild with a bit of raiding experience get lucky, they can probably successfully kill one.Had they intended the content for just one certain set of players, they would've instanced it - that is what instances are for.So this entire thread exists simply because you misunderstood the intentions of the development team.

quasigenx

03-04-2008, 04:38 PM

What if they just simply made these two or three new mobs spawn at exactly the same time. Wouldn't that eliminate the possibility of one raid force locking them down?

Freliant

03-04-2008, 05:39 PM

""" Gnobrin: The Domini have shown themselves in order to lead the Sathirian nation into a new age of glory! They are contested raid targets in overland RoK zones intended for casual raid guilds in difficulty.""" Acadecism was "intended" for level 60-65 in difficulty. Not that it was exclussive for that range. The Domini are "intended" for casual raid guilds, not exclussive for them.Lets flesh this out: Acadecism was designed with the level 60-65 players in mind. The difficulty was adjusted to what they would be wearing and the rewards were in that level range as well. The Domini as well have been designed with the casual raid force in mind, with the difficulty and the rewards adjusted accordingly. People that did acadecism beyond its intended range ussually just scoffed at the rewards and transmutted them. People that will do the Domini will probably do the same... but there is one big difference... while the hardcore guilds will not NEED the domini, there is a very high chance that the casual raid force will.Where is the legal system in all this to prevent hardcore guilds from doing content not designed for them specifically... there isn't.. in fact, they take it upon themselves to say: "If its contested, then we have equal rights to it." Reguardless of what you do to convince yourself of this, if this content was "intended" for casual raid guilds, and you are a medium or hardcore raid, then you are obviously doing content not intended for you, even if it still gives you rewards.The suggestions on this thread are not to prevent hardcore guilds from tackling this mob... just to have a mechanism active that prevents hardcore guilds from monopolizing the content intended for other players.Think about it... if you are a level 43 toon running around Ruins of varsoons killing named after named, and not allowing a level appropriete group from getting them through normal progression... what is that called? Griefing. Well, why shouldn't monopolizing content not intended for you be called that as well?As for those that didn't complain about the other contested mobs around norath... I can assure you that most of the server probably was oblivioius the those contested's existance because they were never up for more than a few minutes. I know that to this day I have yet to see Hurricanus, the princes, and a number of other contested mobs around the world. Not because I don't frequent those zones, but because the named are all monopolized and camped.

Ferunnia

03-04-2008, 06:03 PM

<cite>Gaigex@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Menon@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ferunnia wrote:</cite><blockquote>Oh and the thread is about developers coming up with something that sounds good in theory but won't work in practice.</blockquote></blockquote>In theory they made some contested x4 raid guilds that aren't very hard, so that less experienced (casual) raid guilds would be capable of killing them. Like Sev and TRex. This is, to say, different that the avatars who are level 88 and totally out of the realm of almost every guild playing this game.They never said that the mobs were exclusively for casual guilds. You read into that. They simply were denoting the difficulty of the mobs in a way people could easily understand (or so they thought).So instead of having absolutely no chance at these contested (like the avatars) they've made them easier so that if a casual guild with a bit of raiding experience get lucky, they can probably successfully kill one.Had they intended the content for just one certain set of players, they would've instanced it - that is what instances are for.So this entire thread exists simply because you misunderstood the intentions of the development team.</blockquote>Silly nub, learn to quote! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Edit: Some of you guys I suppose just have crappy servers. I doubt that the majority of servers have guilds on them monopolizing mobs just to keep other guilds from advancing, but hey, I may be wrong.

Calogrenant

03-04-2008, 07:42 PM

Gaige:That's the problem. Right there, you nailed it when you said: "They would've instanced it". They haven't, so the result is:- A far-from-impossible encounter, that drops loot (most probably lgndry and up), in a contested area.Granted, in 5 pages there has been not one developer comment about the point. Why? Who knows, but we do know it would've been at least clarifying.So, just as with the op, one can only wonder according to what they put on the notes. If they would've wanted to just tell us about the difficulty, I believe they would've put it in another way. Even if this is "their" way of saying "it's gonna be an easy mob", the way it came out certainly looked as if they wanted to give a hand to a certain part of the playing community, namely casual raiding guilds, that don't have a full raid force of 100% not-even-legendary clad, lvl 80 folks.Otherwise, they would've said, as they have before, something along the lines of: "New creatures challenge Norrath".Thus, to sum it up, I still stand by the first comment, devs introduce a mob/s, so casuals can raid, but they don't introduce a way to make sure they won't get locked down. I will get back on this point shortly.Ferunnia:Yeah I see your point, now, to some extent you can also take my post as some sort of preemptive strike.Think of it in this way: They happily announce some content aimed at someone who's not gonna get it.So somebody has to warn them about the potential failure, because, if developers don't plan ahead, the next time, they're gonna come up with something that's gonna [vocabulary stuff] up *your* gaming, but they'll be saying: "It was planned for you!".Now, I'm just realist and know what's always going to happen in these cases, so I come up with the thread, and even a couple solutions which I typed I think in my first reply. It's not about lockdowns or hardcore raiders. That is -or not- another issue but worth another thread you can bet I won't be starting.One last thing, since the notes are now out:"They are contested raid targets in overland RoK zones intended for casual raid guilds in difficulty."Now, how could this be interpreted in any other way, it beats me.

Couching

03-04-2008, 08:01 PM

I was in a pick up raid with 16 ppls. We killed the contested in JW in 1 minute and 23 sec. The raid wide dps is only 31k. Those contested mobs are ridiculous easy and the drops are too good considering how easy they are.Some loots are better than vp. It's ridiculous.Another example of broken itemization in RoK.

LygerT

03-04-2008, 09:10 PM

they are too easy and drop some very nice loot for the difficulty of the encounter. we killed the first in a PuR easily. the other 2 were taken out by our top raid guild with only 10 of them in 2 groups. i can easily see both sides of this coin where the loot is better than some instanced raid loot and where these mobs will be locked down. on the other side of the coin, these are contested mobs and if you want a shot at killing them then prepare yourself to kill them, they do not require any specific strat to kill, just you and your raid there and ready to roll. why whine about it? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! find out the respawn timers, form up your raid early and wait for the mob to spawn all the while being fully prepared for it to spawn, soon as it does then pull it and kill it, easy enough. and guess what? those other raid forces lined up or forming up to go may even applaud you for your effort instead of mock you for crying on a thread about it before putting an ounce of effort into it first.if you don't like competition then don't apply to be in the olympics if you are scared of losing but don't ask for a gold medal if you never bothered to step foot on the field in the first place.

Kizee

03-04-2008, 09:58 PM

Grats SoE for missing the mark again. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The casuals will never see these mobs because the loot is better than VP loot and some avatar loot. Add that to the fact they can be 2 grouped by hardcore raiders AND the loot is tradeable!!!!Save up your plat casuals to buy it because you probably will never see one up to try to kill it.

Novusod

03-04-2008, 10:14 PM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grats SoE for missing the mark again. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The casuals will never see these mobs because the loot is better than VP loot and some avatar loot. Add that to the fact they can be 2 grouped by hardcore raiders AND the loot is tradeable!!!!Save up your plat casuals to buy it because you probably will never see one up to try to kill it.</blockquote>Do you have any proof in that claim or did you just make that up?

LygerT

03-04-2008, 10:55 PM

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grats SoE for missing the mark again. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The casuals will never see these mobs because the loot is better than VP loot and some avatar loot. Add that to the fact they can be 2 grouped by hardcore raiders AND the loot is tradeable!!!!Save up your plat casuals to buy it because you probably will never see one up to try to kill it.</blockquote>Do you have any proof in that claim or did you just make that up?</blockquote>both are proven fact, they've been even less than 2 grouped already and the loot is some of the best in game minus avatar loot.

krrr

03-05-2008, 12:27 AM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grats SoE for missing the mark again. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The casuals will never see these mobs because the loot is better than VP loot and some avatar loot. Add that to the fact they can be 2 grouped by hardcore raiders AND the loot is tradeable!!!!Save up your plat casuals to buy it because you probably will never see one up to try to kill it.</blockquote>It all depends on spawn timer. If all of them will spawn everyday i don`t see any problems. Simply because hardcore guild will get all needed loot in first month tops, and will return to avatars.

krrr

03-05-2008, 12:28 AM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>Why whine about it? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! find out the respawn timers, form up your raid early and wait for the mob to spawn all the while being fully prepared for it to spawn, soon as it does then pull it and kill it, easy enough. and guess what? those other raid forces lined up or forming up to go may even applaud you for your effort instead of mock you for crying on a thread about it before putting an ounce of effort into it first.if you don't like competition then don't apply to be in the olympics if you are scared of losing but don't ask for a gold medal if you never bothered to step foot on the field in the first place.</blockquote>QFT

Kizee

03-05-2008, 12:55 AM

<cite>Darlock@Runnyeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Grats SoE for missing the mark again. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The casuals will never see these mobs because the loot is better than VP loot and some avatar loot. Add that to the fact they can be 2 grouped by hardcore raiders AND the loot is tradeable!!!!Save up your plat casuals to buy it because you probably will never see one up to try to kill it.</blockquote>It all depends on spawn timer. If all of them will spawn everyday i don`t see any problems. Simply because hardcore guild will get all needed loot in first month tops, and will return to avatars.</blockquote>Naw... they will keep killing them because then they can sell the loot to make some guild cash.

Vorlak

03-05-2008, 01:48 AM

dont forget alts... can just xfer it to there alts later or put it in the bank, i swear nobody at sony has any brains.

Gaige

03-05-2008, 02:54 AM

Yup SOE missed the mark itemizing these. Oh well, more loot for us. We killed 3 of the 4 that spawned (the KP one twice), but the KJ one got bugged. Oh well its fixed tomorrow. At least the gear is attuneable so you can buy it from the broker instead of not getting it at all.

darkwillie

03-06-2008, 02:00 AM

Well this is [Removed for Content] Fantastic... Well our top rated guild on our server is already camping the new contesteds ... they took out all 4 of them in one night and have toons camped on them waiting on repops for timers... Dosn't look like we will be getting a shot at them anytime soon and oh yeah with the loot being tradeable that meens 2 things.. One.. Stuff that does hit the broker will be rediculously expensive and That meens that Mains can run them and give loot to alts and others in guild.. So get ready for mass farming.. oh yeah and another, they are taking them down with 2 grps so that meens they can probably take down all 4 of them at one sitting instead of moving from mob to mob even better.. a less of a chance to get a pull in... Thanks Guys.. \Do something to fix this.. And also the loot is not that [Removed for Content] at all its actualy decent..

Antipalad

03-06-2008, 02:17 AM

Even with no-trade tags getting hotfixed in, these mobs will still be loot and adornment pinatas. Free loot peeps, enjoy. Sony is really not in touch with the game when I see this stuff go live. Congratulations.

-Arctura-

03-06-2008, 07:28 AM

(( who cares? Its added content.Why complain.you'll eventually get a shot at it, if not now, then someday.I take my hats off to the devs for adding more stuff to the game instead of nerfing this time.So you don't get to raid this mob... lots of other people do, and on some servers the mobs will be untouched for some time (ie. underpopulated servers and pvp servers)

darkwillie

03-06-2008, 11:10 AM

Woah, Don't get me wrong. I am glad they added some more content ingame. It is a step up from were they were at but the thing that should not have been done was SOE should not have made the Bold Statement that these mobs were intended for Casual Raid guilds in Difficulty if only Hardcore Raidguilds would be killing them. My guild is not by far on its way into VP but we have cleared T1, we have the ability and know how on raiding but we take it slow, SoE should have not directed the new contested mobs ( Domini ) toward casual guilds unless they had a way to implement us having a chance at getting to them. No one here can sit there and say that SoE does not know how a hardcore raid guild works.. They exploit timers, farm mobs for transmutables and Plat, also masters, they do not care about smaller people cause we are no threat to them. 5mins to get a raid together vs Small people waiting for people to log on.. But like i said SOE did a good job on adding content to the game but they messed up with the statement.

Ferunnia

03-06-2008, 12:34 PM

The KP mob was one grouped on Blackburrow, just so maybe any dev reading this knows the mobs are way underpowered for the loot that's dropping.

Rayche

03-06-2008, 12:39 PM

Make em triggerable somehow so that people can control whether they ever see these mobs again.Problem solved.

Valdaglerion

03-06-2008, 03:27 PM

I will admit I didnt read the entire thread on this but here are the thoughts->"These mobs will have to have something raiders want or they will be left alone". These mobs are dropping fabled that is really subpar to VP and PR at this point but can still be transmuted into MANA for adorments AND the fabled from the epics is Attuneable LORE which can be sold on the broker so either of those are things raiders want.The epics have already been spanked by the raiding guilds so why not spank them on the way to primary raid zones. Look where they are placed and they become an appetizer.lockouts dont work but perhaps a trivialized methodology. Anyone in the group tagged with a success on a rok raid zone would trivialize the content and need to leave the raid party before the encounter could be engaged. Merely not dropping loot would leave the mob for griefing if it was killed solely so no one else could.

Calogrenant

03-06-2008, 04:11 PM

Wow! Really? I'm so shocked!Mobs on lockdown?Mobs being 1 or 2 grouped by uber geared folks?Loot being either uber, transmuted or sold?WOW MAN! Who could've predicted such a thing!But wait, wait, how do they fix this now?...because if they make them harder, casual raiding guilds would be totally out of the picture!...because if they nerf the loot, they'll keep 1 or 2 grouping them for easy, cheapo transmutables!...because if they randomize the spawning time, uber guilds will still be having the upper hand with either a watching alt or the possibility of still jumping the mobs with just a group or two![Removed for Content]!Even then, DON'T WORRY!Because we all know the developers thouroughly read the whole thread here before sending the content live. We know this because of the TONS of REPLIES and COMMENTS we got from them!, right? Also we do know that it's actually US who are wrong and the CONTENT IS INDEED WORKING AS INTENDED! We're all just mistaken guys, yeah, don't worry, ANYONE can pull the mob after all, right? I bet all the casual guilds in the world will have several shots a week to these mobs... right? I mean right, right? Right right right? Good! Thought so!So nothing to see here guys, move along...