Please reconsider this (From Patch Notes)

[Loendar]

<p>From the patch notes:</p><p><b>ZONES</b></p><ul><li>Bosses in Sebilis and Chardok now have a chance to drop 71-75 Master Scrolls.</li></ul>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Assuming by 'bosses' this refers to named encounters, I can't say that I'm thrilled that Sebilis is included in this.  While I think it is great that there are more places being added to get these spell drops, after the introduction of the Epic quest-lines which all seem to hit Sebilis at one point or another the zone went from being empty unless people were heading to CoA to over 100+ people every night of the week (partially due to the zone not instancing).  It is hard enough to find a named up to advance the Wizard Epic as it is - now it will be nearly impossible as everyone will be off'ing the named that are required for that epic just in the hopes of a Master drop.  Couple that with the fact that the named mobs don't even drop the item needed to update the quest 100% of the time and you are looking forward to a lot of frustrated Wizards (and maybe other classes, not sure how all of theirs work).Please either re-consider this until the zone can be instanced properly or the epic update has been added to placeholder mobs/made 100% drop.  Seems most other classes were tweaked to make them less annoying in one of those two ways, not sure why ours wasn't.  Unless you are trying to give me flashbacks to Phinney camps from EQ1!! /shudder

[Signal9]

<p>I have to agree.  We need "appropriately leveled content" to deliver the 71-75 masters.  Either that, or make Unrest and SoF able to drop 71-80 masters.</p><p>If a 76-83 mob in Seb/Chardok can drop a 71 master, then by Innoruk a 69-73 in unrest/Fear should be able to drop lv 80 masters too.</p><p>(No, I don't really want to see 76+ masters from Unrest, but we should have appropriate content to get the 71-75 masters from, and KC isn't enough content for a sole source).</p><p>There is no mob in this game that drops items 15 levels under it's own, and we should not set the precedent now.</p>

[Trynnus1]

<p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p>

[Signal9]

<cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p>

[Agaxal]

<cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p></blockquote>Instanced meaning when a contested area reaches a max user limit, a new "instance" of the contested area opens up, much like we see KP1/2, KJ1/2.But I am in full agreement, these are the last two areas that should be opened up for 71-74 drops (level 75 drops are fine and can be obtained in any of the major areas, its just 71-74 thats the problem.)My votes would be, in order:New Dungeon - Kurn's TowerNew Dungeon - 3rd Charasis instanceCrypt of AgonyCharasis: Vaults of Eternal SleepMore Named in City of Mist, and add them thereShard of FearUnrestCastle MistmooreNizaraPretty much any T7 EOF RaidCharasis: Maiden's ChamberT8 RaidsChardokSebilisagressiv

[SaraBH]

<cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p></blockquote>I dont think your understanding what there saying. You know when there are so many people in the commonland they make a new shared instance to take down some of the load? Commonlands 2, 3, 4. Thats what there saying is broken there should be a Seb 2, seb 3 etc. So theres not a million people all in one zone.

[Loendar]

<cite>Sasonu@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p></blockquote>I dont think your understanding what there saying. You know when there are so many people in the commonland they make a new shared instance to take down some of the load? Commonlands 2, 3, 4. Thats what there saying is broken there should be a Seb 2, seb 3 etc. So theres not a million people all in one zone.</blockquote>Correct - this is what I meant when I said that it wasn't instancing at the moment.  I would have used a different word to avoid confusion, but I actually figured everyone knew how these things worked by this point.  In fact, SoS that was used as a reference had exactly the same problem when KoS was released and was changed to spawn another 'copy' at 50+ people.

[AdamWest007]

<p>Sebilis and Chardok are (arguably) two of the worse zones in the expansion, and prior to the epic quest lines were two of the most underutilized zones for that very reason. You forced us to do these POS zones for our epics.  That was fine since epics took about one week to finish.  Now you are going to force us to do these POS zones for low level masters?  Do you really want to push unpopular zones on your paying customers?</p><p>The community has been begging for an upgrade to SoF/Unrest, or heck even KC.  Instead you take the lazy way out once again.  </p><p>I suppose there is not much time to paint the bridge when the ship is sinking.</p>

[Theonol]

<cite>Agaxal@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p></blockquote>Instanced meaning when a contested area reaches a max user limit, a new "instance" of the contested area opens up, much like we see KP1/2, KJ1/2.But I am in full agreement, these are the last two areas that should be opened up for 71-74 drops (level 75 drops are fine and can be obtained in any of the major areas, its just 71-74 thats the problem.)My votes would be, in order:New Dungeon - Kurn's TowerNew Dungeon - 3rd Charasis instanceCrypt of AgonyCharasis: Vaults of Eternal SleepMore Named in City of Mist, and add them thereShard of FearUnrestCastle MistmooreNizaraPretty much any T7 EOF RaidCharasis: Maiden's ChamberT8 RaidsChardokSebilisagressivHave to agree with this myself with over 100+ in seb. lag is getting out of hand <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>

[Signal9]

<cite>Loendar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sasonu@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p></blockquote>I dont think your understanding what there saying. You know when there are so many people in the commonland they make a new shared instance to take down some of the load? Commonlands 2, 3, 4. Thats what there saying is broken there should be a Seb 2, seb 3 etc. So theres not a million people all in one zone.</blockquote>Correct - this is what I meant when I said that it wasn't instancing at the moment.  I would have used a different word to avoid confusion, but I actually figured everyone knew how these things worked by this point.  In fact, SoS that was used as a reference had exactly the same problem when KoS was released and was changed to spawn another 'copy' at 50+ people.</blockquote><p>Ok, let me rephrase then.</p><p>If we followed you suggestion, what is going to happen to the loot from Seb? What is going to happen to the spawn rate of the names in Seb?</p><p>Seb and Chardok were created as contested content.  The mobs and loot within were created for 1 instance per server to exist.  If any changes are made, changes will be made to other areas to compensate.</p><p>I can't recall ever seeing multiple instances of dungeons, personally.  did we have SoS2 and 3?  Even back at launch I don't recall ever seeing Fallen Gate 2, or Stormhold 2.  That is one concern.</p><p>My main concern, however, is that this is not level appropriate content for those drops.  This is a fundamental design concept that is about to be violated.  I would much preferr to see one of the lower level instances modified to drop this loot than to see it in Seb/Chardok.  Even putting in a new Charasis zone with lower level content is dubious, as 70-75 characters have no business in Jarsath, the trash there will kill them.</p>

[Drodin]

Well I personally will be happy to see this change.  If you use a level 71 spell to help defeat that level 80+ mob then get a master from it, its still an upgrade no matter the arbitrary level you learned it.  Its a Tier 8 master from a Tier 8 mob, thats all.  Now if it were gear then it would be silly.  I would like to see all the 71+ masters worked into any loot table (but not to exceed the mobs level by more than 1 or 2 at most - no 79 from a 73 mob), with the special 80 ones being on more specialized mobs like the final bosses of zones (kotiz, drusella, etc).but this change has nothing but benefits for people who use spells or combat arts, unless they up the drop rate significantly.  I cant remember the last time I saw a wild master (outside of an instance).

[Loendar]

<cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Loendar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sasonu@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Trynnus1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>One of my guildies pointed out that the mechanic to split zones was not working properly for Seb hence why we have more than 100 people some nights.</p><p>I am hoping that the Devs have a fix planned for this before the GU go live.</p></blockquote><p>Seb was never intended to be instanced.  It is a contested dungeon much like SoS was.</p><p>The issue we're looking to have reviewed is having lvl 71-75 items dropping from lvl 76+ mobs.</p><p>Granted, you'll likely get a disco on whatever 71 master drops off that lvl 85^^^, but should a lvl 80+ mob be dropping lvl 71 items?  It breaks the whole appropriate level paradigm for loot.  Once you've broken that relationship, there will be more exceptions, until there is no real logic in what mob drops what gear.</p></blockquote>I dont think your understanding what there saying. You know when there are so many people in the commonland they make a new shared instance to take down some of the load? Commonlands 2, 3, 4. Thats what there saying is broken there should be a Seb 2, seb 3 etc. So theres not a million people all in one zone.</blockquote>Correct - this is what I meant when I said that it wasn't instancing at the moment.  I would have used a different word to avoid confusion, but I actually figured everyone knew how these things worked by this point.  In fact, SoS that was used as a reference had exactly the same problem when KoS was released and was changed to spawn another 'copy' at 50+ people.</blockquote><p>Ok, let me rephrase then.</p><p>If we followed you suggestion, what is going to happen to the loot from Seb? What is going to happen to the spawn rate of the names in Seb?</p><p>Seb and Chardok were created as contested content.  The mobs and loot within were created for 1 instance per server to exist.  If any changes are made, changes will be made to other areas to compensate.</p><p>I can't recall ever seeing multiple instances of dungeons, personally.  did we have SoS2 and 3?  Even back at launch I don't recall ever seeing Fallen Gate 2, or Stormhold 2.  That is one concern.</p><p>My main concern, however, is that this is not level appropriate content for those drops.  This is a fundamental design concept that is about to be violated.  I would much preferr to see one of the lower level instances modified to drop this loot than to see it in Seb/Chardok.  Even putting in a new Charasis zone with lower level content is dubious, as 70-75 characters have no business in Jarsath, the trash there will kill them.</p></blockquote>Nothing would happen to the loot from Sebilis (at least not if they keep things the same as they have to this point).  You are correct that Seb and Chardok are open/contested dungeons.  However, that doesn't and hasn't stopped them from spawning extra copies of them when they have more than 50 people in them.  It has already been confirmed by a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=408214" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Dev</a> that it is supposed to work this way and isn't... they are looking into why.My primary concern is that with the release of Epics the population of people in Sebilis at any given time has increased about 5x what it was before, if not more.  That means that the traffic in the zone all but guarantees that named spots are camped for Epic hits and in the case of some of those hits (see Wizard) you have to not only be lucky enough to find the mob up, but also be lucky enough for it actually drop the item you need to progress.  It isn't a sure thing and adds in a level of frustration that would exist even if the zone wasn't full all the time - the fact that you can't even find a mob up now to TRY and get the hit is bad enough, now making those same mobs drop loot that was only available in KC is going to compound the issue.As for your SoS1, SoS2, etc. comment.  Do you really not remember there being 3 or more copies of that zone shortly after they fixed it when KoS was released?  Your logic about it impacting drop rates has never applied in the past and shouldn't apply now.

[Oakum]

I like the idea, just think that the drops rate should be less there then the higher level masters. Some rarity to masters should be there and it gives me something to shoot for since I only have a couple right now myself.

[Hellswrath]

I also have an issue with lower level masters dropping from content more than 10 levels above the master. This is setting a poor precedent. Not to mention the issue was not having the CONTENT of that level where tier appropriate masters dropped. Add that to the lag issues these zones are already facing, and this adds up to a poor decision. While I can understand that Unrest would not be dropping these as it was intended as an EoF zone, I see no reason why SoF can't.

[Signal9]

<cite>Loendar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Nothing would happen to the loot from Sebilis (at least not if they keep things the same as they have to this point).  You are correct that Seb and Chardok are open/contested dungeons.  However, that doesn't and hasn't stopped them from spawning extra copies of them when they have more than 50 people in them.  It has already been confirmed by a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=408214" target="_blank">Dev</a> that it is supposed to work this way and isn't... they are looking into why.My primary concern is that with the release of Epics the population of people in Sebilis at any given time has increased about 5x what it was before, if not more.  That means that the traffic in the zone all but guarantees that named spots are camped for Epic hits and in the case of some of those hits (see Wizard) you have to not only be lucky enough to find the mob up, but also be lucky enough for it actually drop the item you need to progress.  It isn't a sure thing and adds in a level of frustration that would exist even if the zone wasn't full all the time - the fact that you can't even find a mob up now to TRY and get the hit is bad enough, now making those same mobs drop loot that was only available in KC is going to compound the issue.As for your SoS1, SoS2, etc. comment.  Do you really not remember there being 3 or more copies of that zone shortly after they fixed it when KoS was released?  Your logic about it impacting drop rates has never applied in the past and shouldn't apply now.</blockquote><p>Ok, if we have some Dev postings indicating that these zones should be spawning instances, then I stand corrected.  They have in the past nerfed some gear from areas that have had lockouts reduced, so it is not beyond the bounds of possibility, and in fact would be in-line with the way they look at things.  I can't say for certain that they would nerf the loot, but it surely wouldn't surprise me.</p><p>As far as the zone population, it is another reason why this change should not be made to these zones, or at least not ONLY to these 2 zones.  Spread out the loot chances, and you will spread out the population.  Personally I feel that this is being added to these zones because it is the least work to shut us up over the masters. I would LOVE to see a new zone for 71-75, say, oh, the Mines of Nurga/Temple of Droga.  Set in an area that 70-75 characters will naturally progress to, with appropriately leveled content...etc.</p><p>Now, what group of 70-75 folks will be killing names in Seb or Chardok to even have a chance to loot these masters?  That's right, none.  These masters will be pharmed by 80/140 toons to twink out alts, or to sell.</p>

[Drodin]

<cite>Signal9 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Now, what group of 70-75 folks will be killing names in Seb or Chardok to even have a chance to loot these masters?  That's right, none.  These masters will be pharmed by 80/140 toons to twink out alts, or to sell.</blockquote>80/140 toons will get upgrades from these masters too,.71-75 masters are still perfectly valid and useful at 80, in many cases more useful than some 78-79 masters. 

[Martrae]

Signal's point is valid, though. They should have added the masters to named mobs of the appropriate level. As it stands 71-75 players will STILL have to wait to upgrade or else pay the cost on the broker. They have been cut off from earning them on their own.

[Ristan]

<p>71-75 masters are rare for sure, but I don't think they should be droping in seb and chardok.  </p><p>Like everyone else in this thread I think they should add these masters to SoF, Unrest, Eof Raid zones or Castle mistmoore.</p><p>Alternatively, they should add an instance dungeon or open dungeon that is slightly higher than Karnors, but slightly lower than charasis or the other instances (not in jarsath either).  Since Fens is the only RoK zone that has no instance or open dungeon (that is not a raid zone), I think they should open one as a 73-78 dungeon and have the masters drop in there, since the terrain is also of that level and that is where the majority of 71-75 toons are.</p><p> <img src="http://kyrainetheranger.tripod.com/animatedsig.gif" border="0" alt="" width="400" height="100" /></p>