One more burr under the saddle ...

[Encantador]

<p>In latest Test Notes ...</p><p><i>Illusionist</i> </p><ul><li>Increased the range of rapidity to 35m </li></ul><p>Impetus has a 10m range. I can't even begin to count the number of times I have died to a short range AE when running in to rebuff the tank or scout.</p>

[Aule]

<p>Oh you know the only reason this was done was so that the Mythical buff that applies rapidity to the group will affect group members within 35m.</p><p>Really they should have just added the extra range to the Mythical rather than changing the spell.  </p>

[Obsidiann]

How can this possibly be a big deal?So what, now their mythical is slightly more effective. I'm happy for them and you should be too.This is a really minor fix and not "one more burr under the saddle" by any means.

[Asdran]

I suppose I should be grateful for a set of patch notes that at least don't include another nerf.But I'm not. Oops, nvm.  I found the mandatory coercer nerf:  "<span class="postbody">Epic mobs in Kunark will now have increased wisdom and resists</span>"Obsid.  One day you should actually sit down and compare spells, line for line with illusionist.  Our sister, fellow EQUIVALENT class.  Or even just look at a parse now and then.  They have got so far ahead it isn't funny.e.g.s:Illus - haste.  doesn't stack from items, so theirs is by far the biggest buff available for it, increases proc ratesCoercer - dpsIllus - group inviscoercer - self invisIllus - gets better the more the mob is debuffedCoercer - the reverseIllus - sought after by all groups/classesCoercer - tolerated in tank groupsIllus - gets a couple of k dps boost with their mythiccoercer - doesn't

[Encantador]

<cite>Obsidiann wrote:</cite><blockquote>How can this possibly be a big deal? --<span style="color: #ff6600;"> Its not, its just irritating as is a burr.</span>So what, now their mythical is slightly more effective. I'm happy for them and you should be too. -- <span style="color: #ff6600;">I am. But note that it is NOT just their mythical that was altered. They changed the single target spell. So the next time a scout dies the illusionist just recasts, you on the other hand have to run to the scout to rebuff him.</span>This is a really minor fix and not "one more burr under the saddle" by any means. </blockquote>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Asdran wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose I should be grateful for a set of patch notes that at least don't include another nerf.But I'm not. Oops, nvm.  I found the mandatory coercer nerf:  "<span class="postbody">Epic mobs in Kunark will now have increased wisdom and resists</span>"Obsid.  One day you should actually sit down and compare spells, line for line with illusionist.  Our sister, fellow EQUIVALENT class.  Or even just look at a parse now and then.  They have got so far ahead it isn't funny.e.g.s:Illus - haste.  doesn't stack from items, so theirs is by far the biggest buff available for it, increases proc ratesCoercer - dpsIllus - group inviscoercer - self invisIllus - gets better the more the mob is debuffedCoercer - the reverseIllus - sought after by all groups/classesCoercer - tolerated in tank groupsIllus - gets a couple of k dps boost with their mythiccoercer - doesn't</blockquote>Illus - Achievement end-point makes pet 2 concentration instead of 3Coercer - Few charmable targets in raid zones or dungeons (instanced or not) and a heroic charmed becomes no arrow. Still 3 achievement.Illus - mythical epic gives a no concentration petCoercer - group mana flow gives the coercer 60% power (with the dps boosting achievement line still requiring 30% or less power)Illus - mythical epic converts the single target haste buff to a single concentration group buff.Coercer - mythical gives fighter taunts a damage procIllus - higher dps in group, raid, and soloCoercer - 50% damage reduction on charmed pets (yes, not on "all" just on any which were decent and were, pre-nerf, doing less damage than T7 charmed pets).und so weiterOn Sunday I was swapped out of the MT group for an additional healer (they wanted to keep the swashie).  The primary difference I could see was that they were struggling for power and my group wasn't.  The 'zerker (a min/max player) in the group where I was moved liked having a coercer, but only because that group is almost never a candidate for our only illusionist. He sees knows the benefits of an illusionist -far- outweigh any coercer.

[Flipmode]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Asdran wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose I should be grateful for a set of patch notes that at least don't include another nerf.But I'm not.Oops, nvm.  I found the mandatory coercer nerf:  "<span class="postbody">Epic mobs in Kunark will now have increased wisdom and resists</span>"Obsid.  One day you should actually sit down and compare spells, line for line with illusionist.  Our sister, fellow EQUIVALENT class.  Or even just look at a parse now and then.  They have got so far ahead it isn't funny.e.g.s:Illus - haste.  doesn't stack from items, so theirs is by far the biggest buff available for it, increases proc ratesCoercer - dpsIllus - group inviscoercer - self invisIllus - gets better the more the mob is debuffedCoercer - the reverseIllus - sought after by all groups/classesCoercer - tolerated in tank groupsIllus - gets a couple of k dps boost with their mythiccoercer - doesn't</blockquote><span style="color: #ff6600;"><b><i><u>Illus - Achievement end-point makes pet 2 concentration instead of 3</u></i></b></span>Coercer - Few charmable targets in raid zones or dungeons (instanced or not) and a heroic charmed becomes no arrow. Still 3 achievement.Illus - mythical epic gives a no concentration petCoercer - group mana flow gives the coercer 60% power (with the dps boosting achievement line still requiring 30% or less power)Illus - mythical epic converts the single target haste buff to a single concentration group buff.Coercer - mythical gives fighter taunts a damage procIllus - higher dps in group, raid, and soloCoercer - 50% damage reduction on charmed pets (yes, not on "all" just on any which were decent and were, pre-nerf, doing less damage than T7 charmed pets).und so weiterOn Sunday I was swapped out of the MT group for an additional healer (they wanted to keep the swashie).  The primary difference I could see was that they were struggling for power and my group wasn't.  The 'zerker (a min/max player) in the group where I was moved liked having a coercer, but only because that group is almost never a candidate for our only illusionist. He sees knows the benefits of an illusionist -far- outweigh any coercer.</blockquote>In regards to the bolded portion, check you facts.  You are incorrect.

[Rijacki]

<cite>Flipmode wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Asdran wrote:</cite><blockquote>I suppose I should be grateful for a set of patch notes that at least don't include another nerf.But I'm not.Oops, nvm.  I found the mandatory coercer nerf:  "<span class="postbody">Epic mobs in Kunark will now have increased wisdom and resists</span>"Obsid.  One day you should actually sit down and compare spells, line for line with illusionist.  Our sister, fellow EQUIVALENT class.  Or even just look at a parse now and then.  They have got so far ahead it isn't funny.e.g.s:Illus - haste.  doesn't stack from items, so theirs is by far the biggest buff available for it, increases proc ratesCoercer - dpsIllus - group inviscoercer - self invisIllus - gets better the more the mob is debuffedCoercer - the reverseIllus - sought after by all groups/classesCoercer - tolerated in tank groupsIllus - gets a couple of k dps boost with their mythiccoercer - doesn't</blockquote><span style="color: #ff6600;"><b><i><u>Illus - Achievement end-point makes pet 2 concentration instead of 3</u></i></b></span>Coercer - Few charmable targets in raid zones or dungeons (instanced or not) and a heroic charmed becomes no arrow. Still 3 achievement.Illus - mythical epic gives a no concentration petCoercer - group mana flow gives the coercer 60% power (with the dps boosting achievement line still requiring 30% or less power)Illus - mythical epic converts the single target haste buff to a single concentration group buff.Coercer - mythical gives fighter taunts a damage procIllus - higher dps in group, raid, and soloCoercer - 50% damage reduction on charmed pets (yes, not on "all" just on any which were decent and were, pre-nerf, doing less damage than T7 charmed pets).und so weiterOn Sunday I was swapped out of the MT group for an additional healer (they wanted to keep the swashie).  The primary difference I could see was that they were struggling for power and my group wasn't.  The 'zerker (a min/max player) in the group where I was moved liked having a coercer, but only because that group is almost never a candidate for our only illusionist. He sees knows the benefits of an illusionist -far- outweigh any coercer.</blockquote>In regards to the bolded portion, check you facts.  You are incorrect.</blockquote>Unless they changed it after I played around with an illusionist fae at EoF launch (was intending to betray her.. and then arasai showed up).  It could well be changed.  I haven't looked at it in a while.  But.. it was a concentration reduction on the personae.

[Jeger_Wulf]

<p>> I haven't looked at it in a while.  But.. it was a concentration reduction on the personae.</p><p>Not there as far as I know.</p>

[Jeepned2]

<cite>Obsidiann wrote:</cite><blockquote>How can this possibly be a big deal?So what, now their mythical is slightly more effective. I'm happy for them and you should be too.This is a really minor fix and not "one more burr under the saddle" by any means.</blockquote>Of course you are right Obsidiann, you always are.  I'm SUPER happy that the Illusionist got a SUPER critical fix that man, if they hadn't gotten it, well hell, there just wouldn't be any reason to play an Illusionist anymore or at least no reason at all to get thier epic. Where are our "MINOR FIXES"? Where have our "MINOR FIXES" been for the last two years? You know what, I've seen a couple of postings by Dev's in the Coercer forums. You know what they say? Be patient, we understand.  Well, I'm kind of out of patients, and well, tired of giving recommendations in a nice and polite way. Two years of that method has gotten us what?.... Nothing but more nerfs. This may not be a big burr under the saddle, but it is just another telling sign of how little the Coercer means to SoE. They will give everyone else quick minor fixes, but Coercers... they would prefer we just shut up and go away.

[Echgar]

<cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Of course you are right Obsidiann, you always are.</blockquote>Let's not make it personal please.  You are welcome to disagree with others, but please keep your comments on-topic, constructive, and courteous.<blockquote>  I'm SUPER happy that the Illusionist got a SUPER critical fix that man, if they hadn't gotten it, well hell, there just wouldn't be any reason to play an Illusionist anymore or at least no reason at all to get thier epic. Where are our "MINOR FIXES"? Where have our "MINOR FIXES" been for the last two years? You know what, I've seen a couple of postings by Dev's in the Coercer forums. You know what they say? Be patient, we understand.  Well, I'm kind of out of patients, and well, tired of giving recommendations in a nice and polite way. Two years of that method has gotten us what?.... Nothing but more nerfs. This may not be a big burr under the saddle, but it is just another telling sign of how little the Coercer means to SoE. They will give everyone else quick minor fixes, but Coercers... they would prefer we just shut up and go away.</blockquote>*sigh*I understand some of you are upset and there is probably little I can say to change that.  Exhibiting behavior, however, that gets my attention as a forum moderator, however, is not what you want. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I see various posts on this forum (and it happens on various other forums from time to time) talking about the feeling of neglect since beta, other classes are so much better, other classes are getting attention why aren't we, and so on.  It gets to where there is so much noise that while it's obvious there are at least some people really, really upset that the issues aren't clear because all they are talking about are the side issues -- lack of communication, the devs are ignoring us, etc.  How to reproduce the issues, how your issues work into larger game balance issues, and suggestions for how to fix them are often missing in many of the posts I see and these are all things the developers are faced with along with fitting them into the development timelines.I understand that for some of you there is a whole lot of history here and my calming words are anything but.  If you truly want change you need to look around you, see what it happening, and try to address it.  Work together and put together an up-to-date summary issues list and similar things in a constructive manner.  Attacking each other is not the answer. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Signal9]

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Of course you are right Obsidiann, you always are.</blockquote>Let's not make it personal please.  You are welcome to disagree with others, but please keep your comments on-topic, constructive, and courteous.<blockquote>  I'm SUPER happy that the Illusionist got a SUPER critical fix that man, if they hadn't gotten it, well hell, there just wouldn't be any reason to play an Illusionist anymore or at least no reason at all to get thier epic. Where are our "MINOR FIXES"? Where have our "MINOR FIXES" been for the last two years? You know what, I've seen a couple of postings by Dev's in the Coercer forums. You know what they say? Be patient, we understand.  Well, I'm kind of out of patients, and well, tired of giving recommendations in a nice and polite way. Two years of that method has gotten us what?.... Nothing but more nerfs. This may not be a big burr under the saddle, but it is just another telling sign of how little the Coercer means to SoE. They will give everyone else quick minor fixes, but Coercers... they would prefer we just shut up and go away.</blockquote>*sigh*I understand some of you are upset and there is probably little I can say to change that.  Exhibiting behavior, however, that gets my attention as a forum moderator, however, is not what you want. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I see various posts on this forum (and it happens on various other forums from time to time) talking about the feeling of neglect since beta, other classes are so much better, other classes are getting attention why aren't we, and so on.  It gets to where there is so much noise that while it's obvious there are at least some people really, really upset that the issues aren't clear because all they are talking about are the side issues -- lack of communication, the devs are ignoring us, etc.  How to reproduce the issues, how your issues work into larger game balance issues, and suggestions for how to fix them are often missing in many of the posts I see and these are all things the developers are faced with along with fitting them into the development timelines.I understand that for some of you there is a whole lot of history here and my calming words are anything but.  If you truly want change you need to look around you, see what it happening, and try to address it.  Work together and put together an up-to-date summary issues list and similar things in a constructive manner.  Attacking each other is not the answer. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Echgar, he was merely responding directly to a posed question.  It was not an attack, even if someone reported it as such.</p><p>To your second point, we have.  We have made suggestions, put together consolidated lists, and sent them to developers (Heh, we got a Great!  This'll really help! back, and since then....tumbleweeds).  We've been polite.  We've been persistant.  We've been IGNORED.</p><p>Even in the face of all of this, we have no communication with anyone other than forum mods.  I truly do not want to be insulting, because I do know how frustrating forum moderation is, but in essence, the only people at SoE that will talk to us are the ones tasked to keeping the street clean.  You patrol the forums, and kick out the trash.</p><p>What we see, time after time, is a new "change" to our beloved class occurs, we raise questions, speculations, and interperetations.  We ask for clarification.  <cricket> <cricket>  Then, suddenly! SoE announces that they have fixed a graphical issue with ratonga pants, and added t4 food rewards to one mob.  Nothing for us.  Until the next nerf.</p><p>Perhaps I'm a bit jaded, having been here since launch, but we've gotten to the point that we're poking with sharper sticks.  We're getting to the point that getting smacked down by you is a win, because we actually got a reaction.  This is not a good state for us to be in.  But it is what it is.</p><p>We don't want to be in this position at all.  A drowning man will grab burning debris to stay afloat.</p><p>Save my life, I'm going down for the last time</p>

[Korpo]

If only there were a way for all you coercers who want what illusionists have to be made happy.Like, maybe a quest that turned you into an illusionist or something.

[Signal9]

<cite>Korpo wrote:</cite><blockquote>If only there were a way for all you coercers who want what illusionists have to be made happy.Like, maybe a quest that turned you into an illusionist or something.</blockquote><p>I'll feed you.</p><p>No.  If we wanted to be Illusionists, we'd betray.</p><p>We just want to be fixed, and not like a pet this time.</p>

[Jeepned2]

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Of course you are right Obsidiann, you always are.</blockquote>Let's not make it personal please.  You are welcome to disagree with others, but please keep your comments on-topic, constructive, and courteous. <span style="color: #0033ff;">My opologies of course.</span><blockquote>  I'm SUPER happy that the Illusionist got a SUPER critical fix that man, if they hadn't gotten it, well hell, there just wouldn't be any reason to play an Illusionist anymore or at least no reason at all to get thier epic. Where are our "MINOR FIXES"? Where have our "MINOR FIXES" been for the last two years? You know what, I've seen a couple of postings by Dev's in the Coercer forums. You know what they say? Be patient, we understand.  Well, I'm kind of out of patients, and well, tired of giving recommendations in a nice and polite way. Two years of that method has gotten us what?.... Nothing but more nerfs. This may not be a big burr under the saddle, but it is just another telling sign of how little the Coercer means to SoE. They will give everyone else quick minor fixes, but Coercers... they would prefer we just shut up and go away.</blockquote>*sigh*I understand some of you are upset and there is probably little I can say to change that.  Exhibiting behavior, however, that gets my attention as a forum moderator, however, is not what you want. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I see various posts on this forum (and it happens on various other forums from time to time) talking about the feeling of neglect since beta, other classes are so much better, other classes are getting attention why aren't we, and so on.  It gets to where there is so much noise that while it's obvious there are at least some people really, really upset that the issues aren't clear because all they are talking about are the side issues -- lack of communication, the devs are ignoring us, etc.  How to reproduce the issues, how your issues work into larger game balance issues, and suggestions for how to fix them are often missing in many of the posts I see and these are all things the developers are faced with along with fitting them into the development timelines.I understand that for some of you there is a whole lot of history here and my calming words are anything but.  <span style="color: #ff3300;">If you truly want change you need to look around you, see what it happening, and try to address it.  Work together and put together an up-to-date summary issues list and similar things in a constructive manner.</span>  Attacking each other is not the answer. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>OK Echgar, don't bother banning me from the forums, this will be my last post. </p><p>  Your cut and past "spanking" is getting very annoying and almost have me at the point of wishing you would ignore us like the Devs do. The part about "look around you, see what is happening, and try to address it." is bs. I do look around and see it every day I play my toon. "Work together and put together an up-to-date summary issues list"? There are almost 2200 posts in the Coercer section, YOU GOT THAT?...2200!!!!!!!!!  All ignored. I do admit that not all are responses to problems with the class, just a major portion.</p><p>So here I impose my own ban on myself. Indefinitely. I can get all the info I need on EQ2Flames. And there the opinion police don't roam so much.</p>

[Echgar]

<cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>There are almost 2200 posts in the Coercer section, YOU GOT THAT?...2200!!!!!!!!!  All ignored. I do admit that not all are responses to problems with the class, just a major portion.</blockquote>I do get that and that was in part why I made the suggestion I did about working with the community to create a summary issues list.  There is a wealth of knowledge in the Coercer community, but even just reading the posts on the front page of the Coercer forum alone could take me (or better yet, a developer) quite awhile.If I were to take the 2200 posts (ignoring every other area of the game), it would take me a significant amount of time to sift through the noise, complaining, issues that have already been addressed, and so on to get to what is *really* the list of things this community would like to see.The other thing is when we see complaining such as this, it is clear that some are upset.  Who is it though? -- Just a handful of very vocal players or is there a major issue going on?  Is this an issue restricted to a particular playstyle or does it affect everyone?I understand that some of you out there are so upset that seeing anyone such as myself dare to post such things are blasphemy, but I'm just trying to help.  As a forum moderator, I can sit here and tell you what you can't do, but I can also try to help show you things you can do to help improve your situation. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><blockquote><p>So here I impose my own ban on myself. Indefinitely. I can get all the info I need on EQ2Flames. And there the opinion police don't roam so much.</p></blockquote>I'm sorry to see you go.  Good luck to you! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[MisterE]

<p>For me not being a corercer or an illy i can read both weapons and with zero knowledge of the class see what they intended the class to be...  illys more dps/greater group utility.  Coercers sorry but you get to buff tanks only.. so that is the MT group for you.. or maybe an occasional OT group....  </p><p>Perhaps what is happening here is with the continued lack of feedback or even a simple post mentioning a reason why "X" weapon was designed "X" way..  They could create a dev posting section where people are not allowed to respond just read and get some insight and communication albeit one way but at least something telling us what in the heck the devs of the items were thinking....   You guys had to put some serious thought into these weapons didnt you?? I say put those thoughts of class roles down on a topic and you will see alot less OMGZORZ BAH DEH R STOOPUD comments and more of those posts that you mentioned listing reasons why stuff is junk..  Then folks can debate each reason with counter reasons and actual play examples...   Perhaps if the devs actually said anything...   Oh snap...  Domino that dev is constantly communicating with the players.. Sometimes good sometimes not so good.. But dangit the tradeskillers do feel like someone is at least listening...   We need more communication like that... </p><p>All we are doing is shouting into a canyon hoping to hear something other then our own darn echo.....  or the moderator sonic boom knocking folks off the forums..</p>

[Rijacki]

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>There are almost 2200 posts in the Coercer section, YOU GOT THAT?...2200!!!!!!!!!  All ignored. I do admit that not all are responses to problems with the class, just a major portion.</blockquote>I do get that and that was in part why I made the suggestion I did about working with the community to create a summary issues list.  There is a wealth of knowledge in the Coercer community, but even just reading the posts on the front page of the Coercer forum alone could take me (or better yet, a developer) quite awhile.If I were to take the 2200 posts (ignoring every other area of the game), it would take me a significant amount of time to sift through the noise, complaining, issues that have already been addressed, and so on to get to what is *really* the list of things this community would like to see.The other thing is when we see complaining such as this, it is clear that some are upset.  Who is it though? -- Just a handful of very vocal players or is there a major issue going on?  Is this an issue restricted to a particular playstyle or does it affect everyone?I understand that some of you out there are so upset that seeing anyone such as myself dare to post such things are blasphemy, but I'm just trying to help.  As a forum moderator, I can sit here and tell you what you can't do, but I can also try to help show you things you can do to help improve your situation. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><blockquote><p>So here I impose my own ban on myself. Indefinitely. I can get all the info I need on EQ2Flames. And there the opinion police don't roam so much.</p></blockquote>I'm sorry to see you go.  Good luck to you! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Echgar, I know you mean well, but.. All the combined issues threads thus far created (and there are new ones with the -same- information at least once a month, though generally more) are seemingly completely and utterly ignored. So, how is "Consolidated issue thread #297" started now going to be regarded any differently than "Consolidated issue thread #169" started three weeks ago?  Other than getting an addition of something new hitting Test (another improvement for illusionists, another reduction in a coercer utility), not a thing.  I would hazard a guess that at least 100-200 of those 2K+ threads in the coercer forum ARE issue consolidation threads.I still carry a shred of hope something sometime -might- be read (and not jsut an Obsiddian rebuttal of "everything is hunky dory, we really should be the bottom of every ladder and if you didn't want that, you shouldn't have rolled a coercer&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.Ironically, the only dev posts I have seen to the coercer community have ever been on EQ2Flames.  Oh wait... I vaguely remember 2 in the RoK beta that were in the coercer forum there.. or was the one saying Puppetmaster would change on EQ2Flames.. I forget. The impression, though, I get is that the only dev to post on coercer issues posts on EQ2Flames so he can do so snarkily.  His posts there, at least for coercers, have never been anything short of a bit mocking.

[Echgar]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Echgar, I know you mean well, but.. All the combined issues threads thus far created (and there are new ones with the -same- information at least once a month, though generally more) are seemingly completely and utterly ignored. So, how is "Consolidated issue thread #297" started now going to be regarded any differently than "Consolidated issue thread #169" started three weeks ago?  Other than getting an addition of something new hitting Test (another improvement for illusionists, another reduction in a coercer utility), not a thing. </blockquote>As a forum moderator, I can help you in certain areas, but I am not a developer.  I can only try to help guide you in better ways to address your issues and perhaps give you a little insight.As I have mentioned previously, I see very little in the way of summary issues lists here but a whole lot of complaining, noise, and vague statements.  It is clear there is a segment of the Coercer community that is upset, but how big that segment is and what they are upset about hasn't been clear to me.Pick a class other than Coercer (one you aren't too familiar with preferrably), go to that class' forum and try to understand their issues.  Many classes have *something* they're unhappy about and is the ones that have things like stickied FAQ's, issues lists, and similar that make it a whole lot easier to figure out what's going on with that class.  Add to your thinking things like overall class balance, vision of the game, and you could easily give yourself a migraine before reading too many posts. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I see bits and pieces of issues now and then here on the Coercer forum -- the epic, for example.  Is it the group version or the raid version though that is the issue?  What's really wrong with it?  Once in awhile there is a good post, but sometimes it gets so buried inbetween rants about this or that, that it is difficult to sort it out.  That is where a summary issues list can really help as it takes some of the discussions and debates from the great knowledge base here and consolidates it down to something a bit more manageable and clear.No, I cannot make promises a developer will reply in five minutes, will reply at all, will address your issues in Game Update 44, or anything of the kind.  Make your issues clear, constructive, and friendly though and you never know what it might bring.I have seen some of the work a couple of you have started doing with coming up with an issues list and it's looking great!  Keep it coming, build a little consensus, and you might surprise yourself.  Yeah, it might never result in anything, but it will still be something you can point to for discussions instead of 2200 scattered posts. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Signal9]

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Echgar, I know you mean well, but.. All the combined issues threads thus far created (and there are new ones with the -same- information at least once a month, though generally more) are seemingly completely and utterly ignored. So, how is "Consolidated issue thread #297" started now going to be regarded any differently than "Consolidated issue thread #169" started three weeks ago?  Other than getting an addition of something new hitting Test (another improvement for illusionists, another reduction in a coercer utility), not a thing. </blockquote>As a forum moderator, I can help you in certain areas, but I am not a developer.  I can only try to help guide you in better ways to address your issues and perhaps give you a little insight.As I have mentioned previously, I see very little in the way of summary issues lists here but a whole lot of complaining, noise, and vague statements.  It is clear there is a segment of the Coercer community that is upset, but how big that segment is and what they are upset about hasn't been clear to me.<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>Pick a class other than Coercer (one you aren't too familiar with preferrably), go to that class' forum and try to understand their issues.  Many classes have *something* they're unhappy about and is the ones that have things like stickied FAQ's, issues lists, and similar that make it a whole lot easier to figure out what's going on with that class.  Add to your thinking things like overall class balance, vision of the game, and you could easily give yourself a migraine before reading too many posts.</b> </span><img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I see bits and pieces of issues now and then here on the Coercer forum -- the epic, for example.  Is it the group version or the raid version though that is the issue?  What's really wrong with it?  Once in awhile there is a good post, but sometimes it gets so buried inbetween rants about this or that, that it is difficult to sort it out.  That is where a summary issues list can really help as it takes some of the discussions and debates from the great knowledge base here and consolidates it down to something a bit more manageable and clear.No, I cannot make promises a developer will reply in five minutes, will reply at all, will address your issues in Game Update 44, or anything of the kind.  Make your issues clear, constructive, and friendly though and you never know what it might bring.I have seen some of the work a couple of you have started doing with coming up with an issues list and it's looking great!  Keep it coming, build a little consensus, and you might surprise yourself.  Yeah, it might never result in anything, but it will still be something you can point to for discussions instead of 2200 scattered posts. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Responding specifically to the bolded portion.</p><p>Echgar, that is the point, we should not be talking to someone completely unfamiliar with our issues, we should be conversing with the person/people that actually created this counterintuitive kludge called Coercer.  Please don't try to interperet the issues too much, as you have stated yourself, it is not your job function, and you simply do not have the time to devote to understanding the specifics of each class.  OUR CLASS DEVELOPER SHOULD!!</p><p>We now have a couple of the consolidated issues posts going up.  We expect to NOT have this one thrown back in our faces with a "Great!  This will help a lot!" post followed by 2 more years of silence.  As we have submitted these consolidated posts at least 5 times in the 3+ years I've played this class, I'm not really insane enough to expect a different result this time through.  Surprise me, please Sony?</p>

[Depheni]

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>No, I cannot make promises a developer will reply in five minutes, will reply at all, will address your issues in Game Update 44, or anything of the kind.  Make your issues clear, constructive, and friendly though and you never know what it might bring.</blockquote>Yes but if nothing is done and no concrete answer given then your whole post is meaningless. Your suggestion is only valid if something is done.As I personally find it very peculiar that you think that there have been no consolidated issue threads in the past, but i guess we have a different understanding of it, I dont think people making even more consolidated issues threads will illicit a response. (taunting the developers who may read this)What saddens me is that the only "official" response to the coercer "situation" is this. A fact which only helps to invalidate the point you tried to make.I am sorry if you find my post is offensive but even though you are not a developer you are still part of soe and yours is the only official response seen here for some time.PS. for the record - I enjoy playing my coercer far more than my conjuror (both lvl80 and well geared) even though I think the conjuror is a far more balanced class at the moment. If only I felt more useful in raids.

[WasFycksir]

<p>Dear Echgar:</p><p>A few points responding to your points <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><i>Echgar wrote-</i></p><p><i>As I have mentioned previously, I see very little in the way of summary issues lists here but a <span style="color: #ff0000;">whole lot of </span><span style="color: #ff0000;">complaining, noise, and vague statements</span>.  It is clear there is a segment of the Coercer community that is upset, but how big that segment is and what they are upset about hasn't been clear to me.</i></p><p><i>I see bits and pieces of issues now and then here on the Coercer forum -- the epic, for example.  Is it the group version or the raid version though that is the issue?  What's really wrong with it?  Once in awhile there is a good post, but sometimes it gets so <span style="color: #ff0000;">buried inbetween <u>rants</u> about this or that</span>, that it is difficult to sort it out.  That is where a summary issues list can really help as it takes some of the discussions and debates from the great knowledge base here and consolidates it down to something a bit more manageable and clear.</i></p><p>Many of your subscribers are not great writers, many people are not.  If a developer is unclear about a post or a thread then THEY should ask for further clarification.  This is not a court of law, whereby you only get ONE shot to make your point or your point may be lost.  I find it disturbing that just because someone may be young or english may not be their strong point their concern may be disregarded.</p><p>When a customer is frustrated, as many of us are we vocalize our issue here on the forum.  Your phrasology stating this is "complaining, noise and vague" speaks volumes, to me at least, how you percieve your paying customers.  Some of the posters may in fact do a poor job of describing or relaying the issue, but that is NEVER NOISE, when when of your customers is unhappy.</p><p>How big the segment is...well it's not big, but that's SOE's fault not ours.  SOE should be able to run a report on how many Coercers (any class) there are now, how many there were and any number of other stats, hours played, DPS, etc.  It's ON YOU not us to come up with that number.  I would argue that if the class was more viable (read less broken) there would be many more Coercers too.</p><p>Finally, SOE has to realize that if a subscriber takes the time to come to this or the other forum it's because they are HOPING to get a result (fix) for an issue.  Coming to the forums to rant/complain/make noise or wirte a vague statement is not how someone would spend their time if they had a choice.  They want play the game and get what they are paying for.</p><p>PS NEVER EVER attack your customer, work WITH them if you disagree with their point to come to a resolution.  I personally find the tone of your responses offensive Echgar.  Did I make my point clear enough?</p>

[StrollingWolf]

If you wish to discuss issues with your class, fine. This is not the place to discuss any issues you may have with moderation. If you wish to discuss moderation you can take it up in PMs.Please try to keep things civil in the future. Developers do read the threads you post. The developers don't respond to every single thread and post that pops up on the forums, but it doesn't mean that they are ignoring you. The developers do value your feedback, contrary to popular belief.