Question on Tanking.....how to pull back a mob after its been pealed from me

[Oceaarea]

So far of the 4 primary class groups ....fighter(specifically Tanking) has required the greatest skill....and there are many nuances I didnt realize prior to playing a tank.....i love the challenge...ok...on to the question1. I am having trouble regaining aggro from a DPS or healer in group when a mob gets pulled from me(usually an add) specifically as it pertains to targeting said mob....example:  group of 6 pulls 6 mobs in close quarters. At some point in the fight I see my healers name blinking and health going down ...in the chaos of names,dmg numbers, toons and other combat related graphics...finding the mob to click so i can pull it back is near impossible. If I click to target my healer....I target their target....which is ME......<b>is there a macro or way to target <i>who is targeting </i>the group memeber I click?</b>And any 'Tanking Guides' or threads you know about or could provide link to would be very kind...ty Im having great fun with my 34 Zerk and want to use these lower levels to really refine my skill's to be a great raid MT later ...Is there any line worth going down in Zerk tree (iknow this prob belongs in the berserker forum but since a tank will most likely respond, thought Id ask <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) at this point ...or should i keep going down warrior lines currently 4-4-8 str 4-4-8-8-2sta

[Karlen]

If another group member (such as a healer) has gained aggro on a mob, you need to increase that mobs hate towards you and/or decrease the hate towards the other character.There are several ways to do this -- by doing damage, taunting or using special abilities.  For example, paladins have a CA called Rescue that increases your spot on the mobs hate list (bumping down whoever is ahead of you).As well, the healer can take actions of his own, most usefully by using his "detaunt" ability (an ability which decreases the amount of hate the mob has towards him).If it is happening a lot, you can change how you start the fight.  Do as much as you can to make all the mobs hate you before anyone joins in -- don't let the healer preheal you (cast heals before the battle starts) for example. If the healer is often running into this trouble, check to see what you can do to make his job easier -- are you using a shield and defensive stance?  Can you heal yourself sometimes?  If you can reduce the amount that you need to get healed, then the healer won't to heal you as much and mobs will like him more.

[Wyrmypops]

<p>I know of no macro to select a specific target like that. Though the /target next and /target nearest are things I use a fair bit. I just got fed up of moaning about the tab button targeting a mob miles away instead of one of those in the melee, and couldn't remember which F-key performs those functions so I made macro hotkeys of /target next and /target nearest for my hotbars. Those, along with the situational awareness we tank players develop, and rotating the camera view when necesary to look down on a fight to click a specific mob, works a treat for me. </p><p>Different tanks have differing qualities and focus. The zerker has a distinct lack of snap-agro tools, so when you do have the mob targeted that's happily wailing away on your healer you pretty much have to sloooow recasting Rescue ability, thassit. When that's down I find myself bashing the mob with a shield so the groupee isn't generating any extra hate from repostes and damage shields before getting stuck in with hard hitting combat arts and supplementary taunts. </p><p>Course, if that's a common occurance then it's probably their ruddy fault. Agro management is a group issue, not the tanks alone. If any given group member is consistently pulling agro then a death or ten might teach them. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>As for guides, there's specific class guides in the class specific forums. More about the minutae of any of those given classes than a "fighter" overview though. You do get the mathematicians working out what's what, offering min/maxed analysis of AP builds. Not being into performing all that myself, they're useful.</p><p>You shan't be doing yourself a disservice by going those AP lines you're looking at. </p>

[gatrm]

<p>I sometimes have that issue with targetting a mob also- when  everything is bunched up, it's tough to target the right mob.  Sometimes you can use tab targeting to get around this problem, but make sure you don't have other mobs other than the ones you are fighting within line of sight, or you may target them...potentially pulling adds if dps is targeting through you.  The only tank class I use is shadowknight and that's an alt so I don't tank a whole lot....but when I do  have that problem, I usually just let loose with my AoE attacks (have 5 of them I think) and that will generally pull the mobs onto me.  </p><p>It would be great to know if there was a macro command that will allow you to target the mob beating on your target though..I know there is a command to allow you to return to your previous target, or at least I think I remember seeing that in an update note.</p>

[Gladiia]

<cite>Karlen@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If another group member (such as a healer) has gained aggro on a mob, you need to increase that mobs hate towards you and/or decrease the hate towards the other character.There are several ways to do this -- by doing damage, taunting or using special abilities.  For example, paladins have a CA called Rescue that increases your spot on the mobs hate list (bumping down whoever is ahead of you).As well, the healer can take actions of his own, most usefully by using his "detaunt" ability (an ability which decreases the amount of hate the mob has towards him).If it is happening a lot, you can change how you start the fight.  Do as much as you can to make all the mobs hate you before anyone joins in -- don't let the healer preheal you (cast heals before the battle starts) for example. If the healer is often running into this trouble, check to see what you can do to make his job easier -- are you using a shield and defensive stance?  Can you heal yourself sometimes?  If you can reduce the amount that you need to get healed, then the healer won't to heal you as much and mobs will like him more.</blockquote><p>I think the information requested here is when dealing with multiple mobs at once.  Sometimes it is hard to tell which mob you have lost agro on when there are more then just a couple.  Is there a way to quickly find out which mob you have lost agro on is what I think the question is.  I mean sometimes you can tell just by looking, but when there are 6 allies on screen, and 3, 4, 5+ mobs attacking, it can be hard to tell.</p>

[Freliant]

<p>Well, if you are facing the group of mobs in an unlinked encounter, then the way to select among the different mobs is by tab selecting. However, there is a big issue with tab selecting that to this day no dev wants to fix: Tabbing ALWAYS selects mobs in view that are NOT engaged in combat FIRST, then it cycles through the ones that are engaged, and finally it lands on your current mob. This does not happen if you actually unselect the mob first and then start tab selecting, but if you already have a mob selected, and you want to cycle through the other mobs that are not part of the encounter, it will never go to them first, rather, whatever other mob is in line of sight that not currently engaged in combat.</p><p>With my tank, I have already gotten used to this reality, so when I see someone got agro from a mob not currently in the combat, or from a massive encounter pull, I know to press Esc to clear my target, and then I tab select till I land on a mob that is not currently targeting me and do my damage moves, taunts, and in a bad case, Rescue, which has a very long reuse timer.</p>

[Jehannum]

Is it time to lobby for an encounter display like what Vanguard tried to provide? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[machbane]

Finding the mob that is beating on a healer or squishy isn't usually very hard. Simply take a step or two away and see which mob doesn't follow you. Then swap targets and taunt/attack to regain agro.

[LygerT]

<cite>machbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Finding the mob that is beating on a healer or squishy isn't usually very hard. Simply take a step or two away and see which mob doesn't follow you. Then swap targets and taunt/attack to regain agro.</blockquote><p>this isn't always a good idea, backing up means you are losing your auto attacks and losing more than 50% of your hate generation. after backing up even if you retain all the mobs and see the culprit by the time you retarget the one that is being the problem you now likely lost 1-2 of the originals.</p><p>the best method for AE aggro control is knowing your abilities and using them to their fullest for controlling linked/unlinked encounters such as hitting your reactive counterattack before the pull and then hitting a group taunt first followed by a full range or green backed AoE. preparation is the key otherwise there simply is no easy way of controlling lost adds depending on your snap aggro and picking abilities. </p>

[Vorlak]

dps more...

[Oceaarea]

Thank you all a ton ...this helps alot with my targeting issue. and thankyou for the addition tanking advise as well.I agree with the whole 'tab' through mobs thing....ive accidently pulled outside -encounter mobs before....not a good thing :/....but i Will try using a<i> /target_next</i> macro to cycle through and see which is targeting whoever has the aggro, that seems to be best choice so far.And thank you for the addition tanking advise as well.As far as general aggro maintenance with group mobs, I read in a forum somewhere its a good idea to cycle through the encounter to make sure each encounter mob gets a bit extra dmg other than the occasional AoE blast....a 'spread the hate' idea....seems logical in theory......maybe an issue though when tougher named mobs are involved and your primary job is to hold that name boss, Im guessing thats where having a MA comes into play.

[pmumble]

<cite>machbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Finding the mob that is beating on a healer or squishy isn't usually very hard. Simply take a step or two away and see which mob doesn't follow you. Then swap targets and taunt/attack to regain agro.</blockquote>QFE.After playing a number of tanks and a coercer main (need to know exactly what all the mobs are targetting for mez) for years, this is the best way i've found to see exactly what is on who in a fight. Just move and separate the mobs a bit. In addition to this, always turn your mobs. Not just if you have a scout in your party, but so that you can see that everything is on you. Ideally, you will be the only one in <b>front</b> of the mob, and everyone else will be behind them. Then, if a mob switches targets, if will turn around and be obvious. Also you will be saving people from frontal AOEs. (and the shaman will thank you)I also rebind my F8 (nearest target) key to E, and use that most of the time for targetting. (it's very close to WASD)Good hunting.

[SaeriBr]

<p>As a long time group healer I always find it helps to select the mob thats beating on me straight away so that the Tank can select me and start taunting it.</p><p>Its all down to what makes a group a GOOD group.</p><p>In my experience, too many groups, mainly pickup groups do not talk or organise things before they do the job.  It always helps to, spend just 5 minutes discussing tactics before you set on your adventure.</p><p>Clarity is the key here, get the boring stuff out of the way before hand and you'll have a much more pleasant experience <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Polyneikes]

If a DPS overaggros even though you are honestly doing your best then just let them die, a dead DPS doesn't hurt the group too much.Healers are different of course, you will want to save them at all costs. But healers also need to realise that they can help you do your job. If you are playing with regulars teach them two things:- use the deaggro! Every healer has an AE deaggro which is just perfect when things get a bit chaotic and several non-linked mobs are attacking the group. Most healers seem to either not know that they have it or don't like to cast it as it is on a slightly longer recast timer and they want to wait for the 'perfect' moment. Just have them use it regularly, it is a great tool.- if healer cannot deaggro or is still getting bashed afterwards: clear you target! Next time the mob hits you you will be targeting it and tank can easily identify the culprit.

[Jehanne]

As a longtime healer if this happens all I need to do is take a step or two away from the bunched up mess.  The mob hitting me will follow and my tank can then easily see which one is the perp.  End of problem. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Oh]

<cite>Anasur@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>As a longtime healer if this happens all I need to do is take a step or two away from the bunched up mess.  The mob hitting me will follow and my tank can then easily see which one is the perp.  End of problem. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Similar stance with me healing (yea furies can heal!!) i just normally stand away from the pack so that way if something decides to whail on me it's fairly obvious what it is.</p><p>The comment on dps overagro'ing. Yea once or twice just roll it up to learning the threashold on that partiqular tank, more then that well either the tank doesn't have his spells up to snuff or the dps is just an idiot and can't wait a few seconds for the tank to actually get agro. It could also be a gear issue /shrug as in dps is in fabeled or better and tank not in good gear bad build etc. There is usually more then one reason why this could happen, it's not always the dps's fault just like it's not always the tanks fault. Sorry just hate the autoblame game.</p>

[LygerT]

best tool i've found is camera angle, i always turn my camera down onto the group or raid party and then tab through the encounter. mobs off camera screen that you can't see you generally can't tab onto unless you dont turn the camera far enough away. problem even with this is that tab targetting has been buggy for years and does not always work. at times even with 5-6 mobs on screen you can only tab cycle through 1-2 of them and need to cursor target ones that are not beating on you directly.

[Eviljoe2]

If you are in a place where you are consistantly fighting multiple mobs and healer keeps taking aggro, would it be a viable option for the Main Tank to advise all other players to target the mob attacking them?  This way, the tank can simply hit the Fkey or click their name when they see health going down, and the mob they need to pull off is targeted through the poor healer, or dps being beat upon.

[Arkinon]

The OP stated that his loss is usually due to adds. So here is what I do to keep control.<div></div><div>1. Advise the healers to not "Bunch Up" with the group. This is to say that they should try to stay at there maximum Meele range if they choose to DPS as well as heal. This will help separate them from the rest of the group a little. </div><div></div><div>2. The group should ALWAYS be target of target Unless they are on CC. in other words You should be their target and they should be attacking through you. This will help with aggro as well. every now an again you will get someone that wants to compete for aggro. Usually happens when another tank class in in the group with you. I have had this happen on several occasions when a guard or a SK decides that they should take it upon themselves to finish off an HQ with a taunt or use death march. If you are MT they should respect that and let you do your job. If they dont than I wont group with them. I will respect them as a MT if arranged that way and I expect the same from them. Same thing with DPS. example If you are a ranger using blame arrow at the most inopportune times and are asked not to then I would  reconsider the group im in. </div><div></div><div>3. I Use my taunts when they are up ... even the AE ones even if  i only have 1 mob. For a pally you need all you can get.</div><div></div><div>4. ALWAYS turn the mob. anything that doesnt follow you is on someone else. (unless mezzed)</div><div></div><div>5 Once the Mob is turned I change my camera angle so I see the back of the mob. The reason is so I can tell if the mob has turned and started hitting someone else or I can also see if a add is coming up behind me. Or comes up behind a healer. nothing is in the way of the camera this way. I always tank in 3rd person mode with the camera zoomed out far enough to catch all the action.</div><div></div><div>6 As a pally If I see a mob run past I can use an AOE. generally if its an add and on a healer that is usually enough to get it back. If not Then I can use a AOE taunt ability that we get from or AA line. Bonus is it acts as a cure as well. As a last resort I will switch targets and use a standard taunt or rescue depending on the situation.</div><div></div><div>7 Lots of mobs and getting adds? As a pally Consecration is our savior. AOE that keeps hitting the target for a specific amount of time. I am hesitant to call it a DOT though because once its cancelled it doesnt remain on target. Its almost more like a reverse Damage shield. This will generally do enough damage to keep any extra adds on me right away. Down side is it sucks mana like crazy</div><div></div><div>8. We also get a spell called sigil that allows us to gain aggro from all group members. If things get hairy I use it. if im on a Boss mob that I NEED to keep aggro on I use it. If I have more than 2 mobs on me I use it. the hate transfer is fantastic.</div><div></div><div>9. Be flexible... Sometimes things happen.. pathers... Bugs... DPS/heal aggro pull. Deaths will happen its up to you to decide who is more precious to save. Im not trying to be an [Removed for Content] but the loss of DPS will really just slow the group down not generally kill us all.</div><div></div><div>10. And finally Body pull when you can in an instance cause you never know what could be social. Slow and steady wont generally get you killed. Nuking a mob to bring it to you or rushing to chain pull in most instances can. </div><div></div><div>Hope this helps.</div>

[Freydinessa]

<cite>machbane wrote:</cite><blockquote>Finding the mob that is beating on a healer or squishy isn't usually very hard. Simply take a step or two away and see which mob doesn't follow you. Then swap targets and taunt/attack to regain agro.</blockquote>~nods~ yep, this is the way i do it too if all else fails. Sometimes it can be a little difficult in close quarters.The other thing is, prevention is better than cure. As a fighter, be aware of your surroundings and see that add coming before it engages. Get it's attention before it starts annoying your healer or mage.But when you loose agro to a party member...? well you should hardly ever loose it to your healer, but if your mage or scout is setting off their biggest nukes first all the time - we'll there's your problem.

[Oceaarea]

Now this is what forums are about...people helping people......Thanks to everyone for posting. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> It has been most helpfulIts the little things you sometimes dont think of that can be the best of help...turning the mobs then switching the camera angle really helps to see where every thing is.

[Sapphirius]

<p>One more tip, since I really don't see it listed here. This one will also make your scouts extemely happy and want to group with you again.</p><p>EDIT: Nevermind, I see someone has said to turn the mob, but he didn't give any tips on <i>how</i> to turn it, so I'll leave my comments as is.</p><p><i>Turn the mob</i>.</p><p>There are several ways to do this. This way is the easiest. You pull a mob, when he reaches you, you run under (through) or around him so that the mob is now between you and your group. If the mob is facing you, then you know it's on you. If the mob is facing your group, well, someone in your group has ripped aggro off of you. Target and taunt, rescue, do whatever it is you need to do to get it back. My bruisers and monks save their centipede/100-hands CAs specifically for situations like this (so they can save that Rescue for the really big emergencies).</p><p>The second easiest way, but not always the best if you have a trigger-happy group, is to pull the mob and run it to the other side of your group, once again placing the mob between you and your group.</p><p>There is an added benefit to turning the mob. It places the group exactly where you want them. Scouts, who must be behind the mob for most of their high damage attacks will not have to reposition themselves as that repositioning can sometimes attract ads or make them do silly things, like crouch on top of wainscotting so they can get behind the mob for their positional attacks.</p>

[patrickhvr]

<p>A quick and simple way to help out a fellow companion who has pulled aggro is to target through them using you F1, F2, F3, F4, ect. keys when in a battle. I learned this trick curing trauma's and such as well as healing certain targets fast and efectivly.  Also it works the same in tanking.  I pull aggro from casters and scouts with my Shadowknight the same way.  </p><p>But also it is your duty to have good taunts such as adept 1 or better.  This helps tremendously.  Also avoid social aggro as it will be the death of you.  Body pulls are your best bet in any situation your not sure about.  But when you pull a target group, use your green taunt.  That pulls all target group aggro on you initially and then the stronger target, you'll want to use your red taunt on since he is the most important target you have. Other than that maintain aggro by using tab to switch target and your green taunt is your best friend in group encounters.</p>