What it feels like to play a Coercer

[chy]

Nowadays I feel like a piece of<span style="font-size: xx-large;"><span style="color: #ff0099;">S H I T</span></span>

[Grimlux]

<span style="font-size: xx-large;color: #ff00ff;">QQ</span>

[Depheni]

[I cannot control my vocabulary] I am sorry you feel that way.I am glad everyone is posting though, more than anything watching this forum it is clear that everyone who has been posting recognizes that there are issues with the class (except one person who is happy with the class - cant say the name of course because I was warned that it will be considered a personal attack). More than anything it is now evident that its not just a few people who post over and over on the forum.I must say though that I dont feel like you do. I still have lots of fun playing my coercer.In my eyes the class has lots of strengths.The biggest issue is raids in my opinion where our functionality is highly reduced.Group play >> the better the group the less the coercer brings to the table. I have actually come to enjoy worse groups far far more as I get to feel not only useful but would even venture to say that I have felt indispensable.Epics have brought into being a further speck of light into being as ppl are forced to venture deep into sebilis and chardok which in many cases can again make a coercer shine as the difficulty increases in these places. This wont last though.Solo, personally I can solo quite effectively - and actually have taken the time to test soloability far more now (after the charm nerf) than I had before. While the charm nerf was unecessary in my eyes, I have to say that it doesnt really matter.What is my conclusion ? Our abilities and spells need some balancing - when I compare them to my conjuror I am at a loss - the conjurors abilities and spells interact so well between them that it feels harmonious. With the coercer it feels allot of times as if I am battling myself sometimes along with the mob.Would I betray ? noDo I want to be another dps class ? (no thanks - I would had made a wizard - and have my conjuror - but this is a personal preference)I actually like that we are a small community, it feels distinguished in a way. Plus it allows me a space in raids all the time as I am the only one in my guild.Do I think things will change ?In my eyes I really dont think its possible to change things as much as the coercer community likes, as it would require so extensive changes that it will end up either breaking the class further or unbalancing some aspect of it.With quite a few things being demanded, if it was easy it would had been done ages ago.What would I really like ?Some evident functionality, one that would (in a good group) shine. (yes I mean utility) - something that would make the other members of the group think "glad we had a coercer with us this time" or make them think "darn if only we had a coercer with us".What would I settle for ?If only possession and puppetmaster were changed to something really useful I would be ecstatic.However I should once again say - the class is not that broken, I have tons of fun with my little dark elf. And so can you.At the end of the day I love the challenge each adversity brings, and we move on, and personally the more difficult it gets the more fun I have and the more skill I need to put into it, which is the one thing that also allows one to not get bored after years of the same gaming experience.

[Rarlin]

<p>Being a Coercer in recent days is actually quite fun...</p><p> "Most" of the folks that know what they're doing have already betrayed to Illusionist.  This means that finding a Coercer is rare, but finding a Coercer that knows what they're doing is like finding Bigfoot!</p><p>With Possession, I personally like this spell but the change I would like to see is have it work on mobs that are already engaged.  Puppetmaster looks cool on certain mobs but isn't really too practical.  As a class, we certainly have our issues, but I have a feeling that instead of getting minor adjustments, we'll end up learning a new overhauled class (which I personally hope doesn't happen... I'd just like a few minor fixes).</p>

[Depheni]

<cite>Rarlin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>... but I have a feeling that instead of getting minor adjustments, we'll end up learning a new overhauled class</p></blockquote>I too really hope that doesn't happen, and I really feel it doesn't need to.The puzzle is there, if only the devs could somehow fit the pieces together a little bit better I would be happy.

[Xethren]

You guys said pretty much everything that is needed to be said and true <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Of course soloing is still possible with a chanter. And it's a lot of fun too if you have the patience and know what you are doing. Yes, we go splat a lot, but thats part of the job <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> having to feverishly bust out the roots and mezzes after your pet breaks always make things a challenge. I think most would agree that those of us that made chanters, made them because we liked the ideas and mechains behind the class. So hope the devs wil fix us at some point.I wanted a fun challenge in the solo game, which is why I made a chanter. And this class is about as far from an 'Easy Button' toon as you can get. It's kinda a good feeling to be playing the least-played class for some reason <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Rijacki]

<cite>Xethren@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>You guys said pretty much everything that is needed to be said and true <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />Of course <span style="color: #cc0000;">soloing is still possible with a chanter</span>. And it's a lot of fun too if you have the patience and know what you are doing. Yes, we go splat a lot, but thats part of the job <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> having to feverishly bust out the roots and mezzes after your pet breaks always make things a challenge. I think most would agree that those of us that made chanters, made them because we liked the ideas and mechains behind the class. So hope the devs wil fix us at some point.I wanted a fun challenge in the solo game, which is why I made a chanter. And this class is about as far from an 'Easy Button' toon as you can get. It's kinda a good feeling to be playing the least-played class for some reason <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>You're lumping both enchanters together in this statement.  Illusionists are not the same as coercers and have a lot more to bring to the table solo, group, and raid.  A lot of coercers are thus betraying to illusionists so they can continue playing a -chanter- but without the limitations of the coercer.As long as my current raid force is still..umm.. not top tier, I'll still have a place for my coercer on raids.  She's already not preferred or even desired in groups (especially if any illusionist is available, well-played or not) that have any degree of competency. I also am well aware that when the illusionist gets his mythical epic, I will be "encouraged" to betray if I want to continue to raid with the same force (or even before that.. i.e. as they get better).I'm still trying to give my coercer value in hopes there might be a shred of a chance I'll still have a place with her as a coercer.  I debated hard with myself, though, over buying a master at 75p last night or continuing to save up for the nearly inevitable encouragement to betray in order to have anything worthwhile to bring to the raid.  I'm already resigned to not being invited to groups, especially guild groups of competent players since I have the least to offer them. Even before the GU#42 nerfs, I didn't have anything much to offer them outside of Maidens and, other than that one place, was only getting asked to groups if there was absolutely no one else to fill the last spot in a group (i.e. vs the illusionist or someone else who could actually bring decent dps).The challenge is now.. well.. to see if it's possible to ride through the recent waves of nerfs.  I find that "challenge" tedius.

[Jesdyr]

The Few ... The Proud ... The Gimped !I was in a PUG lastnight that when I joined the healer jokingly claimed to be DPS (after being last on a parse). I told the group "I would claim to be DPS but I fear a Dev might hear me and beat me over the head with a nerf bat again"   <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Depheni]

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> I'm already resigned to not being invited to groups, especially guild groups of competent players since I have the least to offer them. Even before the GU#42 nerfs, I didn't have anything much to offer them outside of Maidens and, other than that one place, was only getting asked to groups if there was absolutely no one else to fill the last spot in a group (i.e. vs the illusionist or someone else who could actually bring decent dps).The challenge is now.. well.. to see if it's possible to ride through the recent waves of nerfs.  I find that "challenge" tedius.</blockquote>Well that is true unfortunately, although its not comething new with this expansion. In a way the same problems existed before RoK, but in many ways the gap between us and other classes became far far wider after RoK.Even for raids we are not required. Though we are still welcome. But hey ... wait till next expansion <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Heh I am only joking. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I am still loved in groups venturing into the lower parts of sebilis and deep into chardok, the only prob is ppl only seem to go there for their epics. For instances though a pickup group would probably never pickup a coercer over an illusionist (or other dps classes), but thats why its even more important to have friends <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Still I dont see myself ever betraying, unless maybe my guild forced it on me, which I dont think they would.

[Alfgand]

<p>Allot of people are hitting the nail right on the head. We have, as a class, serious issues. Yes, you can still have fun playing a Coercer solo, in groups and in raids but that soes not change the fact we have problems.</p><p>Why we are continually ignored??</p><p>Why even when we are broken do we continually get nerfed???</p><p>Why can't or won't the "devs" fix us?</p><p>Some classes have an issue they need fixing. We have many!</p><p>Rangers seem to be pretty upset but it appears to revolve around two issues, arrows and DPS comparison to Assassins. (I am no expert on Rangers and their woes, so I could be wrong. I just know Coercers and Rangers are the only really upset classes at the moment. Just look at all the class boards to see this.)</p><p>Coercers are very upset, with MANY issues, most of which have been around longer than any other classes issues as well as new issues every few weeks. A nerf here a nerf there.</p><p>HELP US OBI WAN SONY, YOU ARE OUR ONLY HOPE!</p><p>If they wait too long there will only be 3 or 4 Coercers per server at lvl 80!</p><p>Oh, well.</p>

[Jesdyr]

<cite>Svenghali@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If they wait too long there will only be 3 or 4 Coercers per server at lvl 80!</p></blockquote>I call unrest !

[Aurumn]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Svenghali@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>If they wait too long there will only be 3 or 4 Coercers per server at lvl 80!</p></blockquote>I call unrest ! </blockquote>me too!

[Xethren]

<cite>Jesdyr@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>The Few ... The Proud ... The Gimped !</blockquote>LOL! That really made my day, and it's so True!And yes Rijacki, I made a typo, it was supposed to say "Soloing is still possible with a Coercer." <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />That's some good info you gave. Thanks! As i have yet to get very high into the 40s.

[shogun007]

 The Proud....The Crippled...The Few...The Betrayed - SOE grand vision of Coercer class.

[GinasiBryn3r]

<p>Lol the funny thing is I see rangers compaining about their epic and arrows, hmm in the same thread someone complaing about the epic said they were losing 1700 dps with their epic... </p><p>flame me if you like but I would say im average when it comes to gear and I know the class well, but i have to go balls to the wall to even get 1700 dps...</p><p>and guess which class got a dev response....</p>

[Xethren]

I dont parse, so Im not sure of my coercer's DPS. But my necro friend I duo with can out damage me without even trying. So having to really spam the spell keys to even get 1700 dps would make sense I guess

[Jeepned2]

<cite>Depheni wrote:</cite><blockquote>I must say though that I dont feel like you do. I still have lots of fun playing my coercer.In my eyes the class has lots of strengths.The biggest issue is raids in my opinion where our functionality is highly reduced. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Yes it is!!! : ) </span>Group play >> the better the group the less the coercer brings to the table. I have actually come to enjoy worse groups far far more as I get to feel not only useful but would even venture to say that I have felt indispensable.  <span style="color: #3366ff;">Sorry, can't agree with this one, noobs just upset me too much.</span>Epics have brought into being a further speck of light into being as ppl are forced to venture deep into sebilis and chardok which in many cases can again make a coercer shine as the difficulty increases in these places. This wont last though. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Unfortunately you are probably correct.</span>Solo, personally I can solo quite effectively - and actually have taken the time to test soloability far more now (after the charm nerf) than I had before. While the charm nerf was unecessary in my eyes, I have to say that it doesnt really matter.  <span style="color: #3366ff;">Why does it matter? Because as your pet's DPS goes down, the longer it has to stand there and take damage. So what I find I have to do is when my pet gets low on health, call off my pet, mezz the mob and keep it mezzed until my pets health goes back up and repeat. This has added a TON of time to taking down one mob.</span>What is my conclusion ? Our abilities and spells need some balancing - when I compare them to my conjuror I am at a loss - the conjurors abilities and spells interact so well between them that it feels harmonious. With the coercer it feels allot of times as if I am battling myself sometimes along with the mob.Would I betray ? no <span style="color: #3366ff;">Agreed, would rather delete my toon then to betray it.</span>Do I want to be another dps class ? (no thanks - I would had made a wizard - and have my conjuror - but this is a personal preference)I actually like that we are a small community, it feels distinguished in a way. Plus it allows me a space in raids all the time as I am the only one in my guild. <span style="color: #3366ff;">I too am the only Coercer in my guild, but it is getting closer and closer to the point that they are not going to take me along. Since the level rise to 80, all the other classes got conciderably better spells then what they had. Many do a lot more damage then they used to. For some, hate transfer and aggro reduction spells were updated and made better. All I see is an ever increasing gap between our abilities and other classes. As for being a small community, it has it's good and bad sides to it. Being small means that we don't seem to rank very high on the "fix me" scale. On the other hand it is nice being unique. I just don't want to be too unique as in dinosaur unique. Also, come to think about it, another problem with getting to be too small a comminity is that I'm finding less and less people have even the slightest clue as to our abilities and draw backs. This contributes to our not being wanted in many groups.</span>Do I think things will change ? <span style="color: #3366ff;">Not in EQ2's lifetime.</span>In my eyes I really dont think its possible to change things as much as the coercer community likes, as it would require so extensive changes that it will end up either breaking the class further or unbalancing some aspect of it.With quite a few things being demanded, if it was easy it would had been done ages ago.What would I really like ?Some evident functionality, one that would (in a good group) shine. (yes I mean utility) - something that would make the other members of the group think "glad we had a coercer with us this time" or make them think "darn if only we had a coercer with us".What would I settle for ? <span style="color: #3366ff;">I'm to the point of being less demanding anymore. I would just be happy with Sony telling me what the long term plans are for the class.</span>If only possession and puppetmaster were changed to something really useful I would be ecstatic.However I should once again say - the class is not that broken, I have tons of fun with my little dark elf. And so can you. <span style="color: #3366ff;">Oh, the class is broken, but yes you can still have fun as a Coercer. But being in a higher end raiding guild, the fun is quickly fading away. And it has become so much less fun that I have asked my guild to allow me to switch my main to one of my alts. If they agree I'll use my Coercer for those few areas where having a Coercer can really make a difference for a group being run by my guild.</span>At the end of the day I love the challenge each adversity brings, and we move on, and personally the more difficult it gets the more fun I have and the more skill I need to put into it, which is the one thing that also allows one to not get bored after years of the same gaming experience.</blockquote>This was an excellent post!  I modified it a little and inserted my remarks in blue. Problably not so excellent after I did that though.

[AngryCoerc]

<cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Depheni wrote:</cite><blockquote>Do I think things will change ? <span style="color: #3366ff;">Not in EQ2's lifetime.</span>In my eyes I really dont think its possible to change things as much as the coercer community likes, as it would require so extensive changes that it will end up either breaking the class further or unbalancing some aspect of it.With quite a few things being demanded, if it was easy it would had been done ages ago.</blockquote>This was an excellent post!  I modified it a little and inserted my remarks in blue. Problably not so excellent after I did that though.</blockquote>I think the first step should be to find people of character that will do things like put huge sweeping nerfs in the patch notes.  After that we as a community can work on gaining balance in soloability and raiding.  And no, I do not think ANYTHING will change.  The small group of people in charge can't handle 24 classes.  It is a mammoth job and would take a company like Blizzard to balance that many classes and make all 24 classes happy.  We are on a back burner in the RV in the back yard of the Dev office.

[Taharn]

<cite>Jeepned2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><b></b>Solo, personally I can solo quite effectively - and actually have taken the time to test soloability far more now (after the charm nerf) than I had before. While the charm nerf was unecessary in my eyes, I have to say that it doesnt really matter.  <span style="color: #3366ff;">Why does it matter? Because as your pet's DPS goes down, the longer it has to stand there and take damage. So what I find I have to do is when my pet gets low on health, call off my pet, mezz the mob and keep it mezzed until my pets health goes back up and repeat. This has added a TON of time to taking down one mob.</span></blockquote><p> Ouch. Just ouch. Huni, you are going about it the absolute wrong way. Charm a caster pet, set it ranged, and root nuke. If you want to get all visceral, get a priest pet, send it in and do the reactive thing. The priest mob will cast a heal spell once it gets orange. Mezzing a mob to let your charm regen? Big no no.</p><p> If you're talking about soloing heroic instances and nameds.. Let the mob kill your pet, mez it, and get another one.</p>

[Jeepned2]

<cite>Vicante@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote> Ouch. Just ouch. Huni, you are going about it the absolute wrong way. Charm a caster pet, set it ranged, and root nuke. If you want to get all visceral, get a priest pet, send it in and do the reactive thing. The priest mob will cast a heal spell once it gets orange. Mezzing a mob to let your charm regen? Big no no. <p> If you're talking about soloing heroic instances and nameds.. Let the mob kill your pet, mez it, and get another one.</p></blockquote>Actualy that's how I normally do it... when I posted this, was thinking about how long it took me to solo down to my Epic update in lower Seb....no casters to charm on the way. At least not until you are almost there anyway.

[A.Tyndiel]

<p>At this point Id be happy if all SOE did was remove the 3 conc spaces necessary for charming and left us alone for good. Cause to be honest, I dont see any improvements, and in fact, see even more degrading nerfs on the way till were simply not played at all. Then the ax falls. Ive resigned myself to our fate to be honest, I simply dont have the strength to fight this losing battle with soe anymore. We must seriously be like the plague. I mean....that the opening post hasnt been deleted or even moderated in any way tells you everything you need to kow about how ignored we are as a community at this point. Rangers threaten to betray, and within days they have a dev attentively listening...we complain for years...and get nerfed.</p><p> Not worth the aggrivation Sony...not by a mile.</p>

[WasFycksir]

I think this thread not being locked/deleted after 3 days is evidence that devs NEVER look at the coercer board.  How else can you explain the OP surviving?!?!?!!?

[Taharn]

Since you arent able to be PMed Staven, I may as well just post it here. If you're soloing heroics with an intention to get to a specific place, instead of for loot and the awesome feeling you get, the best way is the charm kill method. Charm mob A, send it against mob B. Once A is dead charm B and send it against C. Rinse and repeat. Throwing Daydream into the mix when you get into a particularly tight spot makes it a little easier too