Where is the Coercer going in the future?

[Jeepned2]

<p>With all the hate and discontent that I have in me since GU42, I'm sitting back thinking "Where is the Coercer going in the future". And to tell the truth, I have no clue. Here are some of my thoughts though.</p><p>First, where are we now as a class and where do we stand against our counterpart mages?</p><p>Right now we are an "in limbo" class. No one seems to know what to do with us. For myself, I'm in the MT group, no discussion about it. No one else wants us in thier group when they can have an illusionist instead. Not sure if that is good or bad.</p><p>As for where we stand with our counterparts? </p><p>1. We are the lowest DPS of the mage class.</p><p>2. Now that the Illusionist don't have to use any concentration points for thier pets (if they have thier epic), we are the only ones that have to use 3 points for ours.</p><p>3. We are the smallest community of the mage class and apparently getting smaller if posts are to be believed.</p><p>So where is Sony taking us? Well here's my guess, would be interested in yours.</p><p>1. Mezzing and charming is going away. We see our ability to do these things diminished with each upgrade. No pets in raid zones. Mezz and stun times minimalized in raid zones. More mobs added each upgrade that we can't charm or mezz and in some cases stifle, stun or root. The lack of subjugation on our epic supports this theory.</p><p>2. Ever widening gap between our DPS and other mages. They all got DPS procs on thier epics, we did not. Thier T8 spells dramactically increased thier DPS, ours was just a token increase.</p><p>3. No upgrade to our hate spell since T6. Not sure what that would imply.</p><p>So where is Sony taking us in the future? I have no clue. And I think that is a large part of our frustration. We know what we were suppose to be, Crowd control. Yet with the constant removal of those abilities, where does that leave us? No one from Sony has replied to any of our complaints (added frustration) and have kind of just left us hanging (more frustration).  What would be nice is to hear what Sony invisions for the Coercer of the future. At least then we could decide if we like that vision or would prefer to move on to a different class or just move on completely. </p><p>I've been pretty vocal in the last couple of weeks with my dissatisfaction with what has been done to our class recently. But with no dialog with Sony, there is really nothing to do but either shut up and pretend everything is ok, or to keep trying to force poor Echgar to close down various forums. (Three this month so far <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> )</p><p>So what do you think? Where do you think we are going in the future? Are we dinosaurs already and just don't know it?</p>

[Aule]

<p>Yeah it would be nice if there was some open communication and dialogue.  Sadly that doesn't seem to be the case.</p><p>With everything that's happened recently on top of the marginalization of the class in general this expansion, I'm starting to seriously weigh my options as to what other class I might be interested in playing.  I'm certainly not going to betray, it'd just hurt every time I logged on.</p><p>And to think, once upon a time I would get cross-server tells 2 or 3 times a week trying to recruit me because guilds were that hard up for a Coercer. </p>

[conor2k]

Good luck with getting a response. I REALLY hope we get one. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I've been wondering for myself what i was supposed to do with my coercer. I came out of lurking just to vocalize how upset i am with all the nerfing in the past because now seems to be the time to do it. although it has gotten us no where.which leaves me asking: is there really a point to try? :-/ i dont think sony cares what coercers think. theres not that many of us. (which is just one big circle. because theres not many of us BECAUSE they dont care.)Anyway, I'm really praying for a response.

[Grycks]

My guess is they'll nerf us until enough quit/delete/betray that we number less than 1% the overall population then completely remove the class and replace it with NGE jedi! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jeepned2]

<p>Ok.. let me update this a little. I happen to know there are a lot of creative people in the Coercer community. So get those creative juices flowing. If we can't be crowd control and then you look at the other mages, what can we evolve into? Where could Sony be taking us? So here's a really wild example.</p><p>We become the only mages to wear leather. They take away all the mezzes and our charm. In replacing those they give us a single target cure trauma, poison and element to go alone with our cure arcane. Additionally we get two small heals, a single target heal and a single target heal over time. Also we get one additional buff, say ummm....be creative...ummm.... a small group Hit Point buff. How about a speed buff that stacks with mounts?<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Say 20%?  We get to keep memwipe. So over all we become a jack of all trades mage.</p><p>Come on! Think... be creative.... <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[A.Tyndiel]

<p>In limbo is the appropriate term to use because thats exactly where we find ourselves. In a sense, the MMO purgatory, at the edge of the void.  I've always tried to maintain an open mind as to our fate, tried really hard to not jump to conclusions, even after nerf after nerf befell our class, but with LU42 its quite clear that the ultimate fate for us is in fact the chopping block. I mean if you want an oversimplified graphical representation of that just look at what the Coercer Epic looks like...</p><p> <img src="http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/sylandia/Eye_of_the_Siren_Held.jpg" alt="" width="228" height="401" border="0" /></p><p>...(forget the stats for a sec), its a twig...seriously, a twig. Ive seen the other mage epics, and none look this...poorly deisgned. Its as if the Devs left the design for our weapon for last, and running upto the deadline just threw it together on a table napkin and sent it up for approval. We are the [Removed for Content] children of EQ2, no ands, ifs, or buts about that. Its clear, atleast to me, that their ultimate goal is to dwindle our numbers sufficiently enough so that, as Grycks mentioned, were at the 1% or lower threshold of the total population ingame, making it far easier to consolidate us into, I dunno Illu's or something. I believe that adding to the Illu's offensive capabilities, and decreasing ours is sonys way of "erasing a mistake", one they feel they made by splitting the class into two sub classes. The illu is right online with other mages now, given their dps, and on the contrary, we are...well...in the way.</p><p> I love my Coercer, I really do, the mere fact that Im here aggrivating myself over this nonimportant, (in the grand scheme if things, RL, etc), issue is testament to that. But at some point you have to ask yourself, is there a point? SOE is a multimillion dollar company, and if theyve made up their minds about what to do with their investment, well, all we can do is suck it up and move on. The Coercer community is simply...in the way...of their grand scheme for this game...and what better way to get rid of us, that to make us do it ourselves. By betraying...by moving to another class, or by simply leaving the game alltogether. Since we represent the smallest minority in EQ2, they wont mind. They'll still be more than plenty of players willing to play Furies and Necro's to keep SoE happy, and in the end thats the bottomline. What we all think here is irrelevant, as long as we are the least played class in the game. All of which they seem determined to keep that way. Ask yourself why that is, and it all starts to make sense.</p><p>The writings on the wall.</p>

[Xethren]

That epic looks like a piece of crap. We get a 'twig'? Seriously... The first epics in EQ1 look tons better than this.I hope they arent trying to phase us out, though it does seem that way with every patch. Coercers are three things: Charm, CC, and buffs. If those keep getting taken away or nerfed more, there will be no way for us to even be playable. I lost track of how many days it's been since Ive seen a Coercer LFG in the 30-50 world channels.Im generalizing, so correct me if Im wrong, but it seems that there is almost no point to having a coercer in low level groups, outside from being a 'clarity' buffbot. Our DPS blows, relying mostly on reactives, mezzing in lower tiers seems pointless because the group is able to handle the crowd of mobs without a problem. And ofttimes, DPS-happy people wll break the mezzes anyway. We cant charm in a group, those con slots are needed for buffs, etc.How is high level grouping for chanters? Say 50+. Is there a point at all? Or is my chanter going to have to spend the rest of his life soloing because no one wants/needs him? If so Im okay with that, I rarely group and spend most of my time duoing with a friend. I dont consider myself a 'hardcore' player, so ill probably never be in a raid either.I love the class, but it hurts wanting to play him just from thinking 'is there actually a point to having a chanter in the endgame'

[Ashni]

<p>They could always go the route some other games have and just make epic targets need more applications of a mez for it to take effect rather than making them outright immune.</p><p> So NastyBoss (tm) the ^^^^ epic would have to be mez'd 5 times before going to sleep, or something similar.  You could design a system based upon whether or not they were named and how many up-arrows they have that determined how many applications were necessary.</p><p> This way crowd control would still be relevant, but harder against mob types where the devs feel it should be harder to give things a more epic feel.  So if you really needed to put the NastyBoss to sleep, you would know that you could, but that perhaps your party would need a few enchaners just doing that to pull it off.</p>

[Rominian]

<p>You know that scene in PoTC3 where Jack Sparrow is tied to the pole and they are throwing fruit at him?  Just place yourself in that scene, and just think, with your epic you already have a stick handy!  Although a small one.  We are teetering on the edge of oblivion folks, there is no hollywood ending for us though, we ARE going to hit those sharp pointy rocks at the bottom on the cliff, and its not going to be pretty.  Norrath will be bathed in the blood of those that dont conform and betray to an Illusionist and become what the Devs deem an enchanter class should be.  If you look really close at your epic with the graphics up it says "scheduled for deletion in April 2008", honest! Thats why they had to make it a stick, so they could write all that on there, plus sticks are easy to get rid of, just throw them in a fire...</p>

[Grimlux]

<cite>Rominian wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You know that scene in PoTC3 where Jack Sparrow is tied to the pole and they are throwing fruit at him?  Just place yourself in that scene, and just think, with your epic you already have a stick handy!  Although a small one.  We are teetering on the edge of oblivion folks, there is no hollywood ending for us though, we ARE going to hit those sharp pointy rocks at the bottom on the cliff, and its not going to be pretty.  Norrath will be bathed in the blood of those that dont conform and betray to an Illusionist and become what the Devs deem an enchanter class should be.  If you look really close at your epic with the graphics up it says "scheduled for deletion in April 2008", honest! Thats why they had to make it a stick, so they could write all that on there, plus sticks are easy to get rid of, just throw them in a fire...</p></blockquote>You win! at drama! >^^<

[Taharn]

<cite>Xethren@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>How is high level grouping for chanters? Say 50+. Is there a point at all? Or is my chanter going to have to spend the rest of his life soloing because no one wants/needs him? If so Im okay with that, I rarely group and spend most of my time duoing with a friend. I dont consider myself a 'hardcore' player, so ill probably never be in a raid either.I love the class, but it hurts wanting to play him just from thinking 'is there actually a point to having a chanter in the endgame'</blockquote><p>Grouping at level 80 isn't actually too bad. We're very good at smoothing out the rough edges of the group. Overall we provide the extra power to keep on turckin, as well as  if our tank is bad we can bolster their aggro, thoughtsnap and do extra dps (because they take more hits). If our healers arent up to par, we have heal crits and coercive healing. DPS mods for the dps, reduced aggro for those overnuking wizards etc. We also provide some great utility in some the end game zones, especially Charasis. Mezzing adds in Maidens and super power regen/mezzing in Vaults.</p><p>A lot of the bad things you hear about coercers are with regards to raiding. Simply because when you raid you DONT take scrub healers or tanks.. you have the best guardian, geared up as much as possible, surrounded with a healer of each archetype etc etc. So all our smoothing out power isn't needed anymore, leaving us with our meager dps.</p><p>EDIT: Of course, most of the group smoothing out can be done almost as well as an Illusionist (TC instead of CH, that Double attack buff instead of pure hate buff)</p>

[Suraklin]

<p>They'll probably combine you with Illusionist and give them a charm ability like you have currently. They'll probably also combine the druids into one class, the Clerics into one class, the Shaman's into one class, the Bards into one class, the Sorcerer's into one class, Brawlers into one class,  probably keep Assassin, Ranger, Swashbuckler, Brigand, Necromancer, Conjuror, Guardian, Berzerker, Paladin, Shadowknight as is. </p><p>They'll call it an NGE like they did with SWG and people will gripe like they did when the NGE hit SWG. I'd hate to see an NGE happen to this game unless they really thought it out well so people didn't feel completly screwed over again because that will be all on SOE and not something Lucas Arts agreed to or forced onto SOE also.</p><p>However, it can't be easy to try and balance 24 classes in a game. Vanguard has a good amount less than here and have far fewer unhappy players when it comes to the class they play there. </p><p>Before the changes to SWG they use to have Community representatives on the forums for each Profession. Maybe SOE needs to have a representative to every class on these Forums to communicate with the Devs like they did in SWG. </p>

[pebyr]

well they got to do something for the raiders also.  Yeah, i keep hearing that 90% of the player base is non-raiders, but that's 10% left that also pay subscriptions.  Right now, I'm the junior coercer, in my guild.  That means I only get to raid, if there are enough tank groups, OR we dont have enough illusionists online to handle mana regen for the other groups.  I even got booted from a raid last night after sitting on deck because a late illusionist logged in.  I can't even blame the raid leader because I dont bring anything to the raid really except hate generation, a weaker dps buff, and mana regen.Either they fix our dps, or give us the utility to buff dps as well as illusionists, or there are gonna be alot less coercers.  On the plus side, if enough coercers quit the game or betray, that means more raid slots for the ones that are left. The best part, the mythical weapon, that you would expect to help us, actually hurts us.  Theoretically, right now,  I can hope to get into the melee dps group.   With both me and an illusionist having our mythicals, there will be no contest.  Heck, there's not really a contest now.  Their dps buff is at a minimum, as good as ours, they can also buff mage dps, AND they have really high dps of their own. Yeah, something has to change, this is bad.I still like my idea of changing our dps buff, to improve hit rates for mages and melee.   Something that decreased the mobs ability to avoid melee, or resist spells, would be almost as good, with having diminishing effectiveness against yellow con or lower, and having the most effectiveness against orange con mobs.

[Flipmode]

I am starting to learn a lesson with SOE games.  When the class is avail in any given game, Pick the pet class (necro, mage/conj etc) or the MT.  Just cant go wrong.  That or the class the devs play.  You will be happier in the long run.

[Alfgand]

<p>Well funny you should ask about the future of the Coercer. I happen to have some inside information. I was recently at SoE HQ, repairing a broken copier when I overheard the "devs" talking about the future of Coercers and some of the upcoming spell changes.</p><p>Ego Melt is going to be replaced by Tuna Melt. This spell will summon a Tuna Melt sandwich to each member of the group or raid. To be fair, the mobs in the zone will get a sandwich also. The sandwich will be a level 10 food, since we cannot anger the provisioners in the game.</p><p>Puppetmaster will be replaced by Puppeteer. This spell will summon Punch and Judy puppets to entertain folks who come back early from AFK breaks on raids or in groups.</p><p>Channeling will be replaced by Channels. This spell will allow anyone in a group or raid to type /channel HBO or /channel NBC and the spell will respond with what program is currently running on this channel. </p><p>Absolute Silence will be replaced by Hush. This spell will stop mobs from making those discouraging remarks when a raid or group wipes. They will under the spell, respond with "I am quite sorry I had to prevent your progress."</p><p>Dictate will be eliminated and replaced with Phoney Personae. This spell will create a Phoney Personae that looks identical to the Illusionist Personae. The Phoney Personae cannot perform any actions at all and cannot even move. But when a raid is forming up it may trick the raid leader into believing the Coercer is an Illusionist and thus get invited to the raid.</p><p>Anesthesia will be replaced by Contented. This spell can be cast on any Coercer including him or her self. This spell will coerce the target to repeatly speak in /say, "I am a happy contented Coercer."</p><p>Third Eye will be replaced by Back Eye. This spell will form an eye on the back of the Coercers head allowing the Coercer to see where they have been.</p><p>Hostage, due to Coercer's overpowered DPS will replaced by Armor All. This spell will make the Main Tank's armor exceptionally shiny. This spell can only be cast on a MT if the Coercer is in the MT group. This spell greatly adds to the Coercers desirability on raids and groups. This spell takes 3 concentration slots.</p><p>Asylum will remain but its function will change. Asylum will summon a small padded room for the Coercer for those occasions when the Coercer may need a "time out" break. The Master level spell will also summon a straight jacket.</p><p>They had quite a bit more planned for us but I was finished with the copier repair and so had to leave. So for all you complaining about no attention to our problems from the "devs", I say we are really in for some exciting changes. Woot !</p>

[Rythen16]

<p>Svenghali,</p><p>You must have left a little bit before I did when I was there working on their servers. I also heard that they are finally going to fix our power drain spells that they said they would close to a year ago.</p><p>Here's how they said they are going to fix them. They are taking away any power drain effects from spells that currently have them. They will then be replacing those effects with effects that timeshift. So, when the group or raid you are in decides they need to log, you can cast this timeshift spell and actual time rolls back so they can play some more. The master level of this spell rolls back time one full hour. </p><p>Seriously, your post is funny as hell.</p>

[Alfgand]

<p>Well Rythen thanks for your comment. If I can make one or two Coercers laugh while we are in this sad state as a class, then I have at least accomplished something, since the "devs" seem to ignore our constant heartfelt pleas for help.</p><p>The only Coercer who seems to think we are as a perfectly balanced and need no help at all is Obsidiann and I  think I know what happened there. Remember in Coercer school, in Mez 101 they told you never to cast a mez in front of a mirror? Well I think Obsidiann missed that day........</p><p>Just kidding Obsidiann.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[AngryCoerc]

I am on forum probation after a week long ban on both of my accounts so I can't get too negative.  Very funny stuff Sveng.  Seriously though, I did hear a rumor.  They will be exchanging the level 54 Spell "Spell Whip," which is like 50% of our 200DPS with a spell called "Spell Quip."  Instead of adding 50dps like the spell does now, it will tell the raid a short joke.  It starts with 1 liners at Adept I and goes all the way to Knock Knock jokes at Master I.  This spell change will balance out our overinflated DPS while adding charm to the game.  They are also going to make the level 56 spell "Depression" a passive coercer skill.  You may have seen the effects of it since the last patch.  It pwns.  Hey Sveng, I think you heard some bad info, "Hostage" isn't going to be changed to "Armor All."  They are actually changing the spell "Hostage" to "Hostess."  It will summon a random Hostess snack cake that gives 500 in-combat health regen.  Only usable by casters.

[Alfgand]

Angry, lol, yep you too are starting to see the future !

[shogun007]

Great projects lol . Keep them coming -)

[Iluvataris]

Sven, that is the funniest thing I have read on the forums in a long time, lol.It was good having something on the coercer forums actually bringing a smile to my face for a change.Greytor

[Zelle]

Thank you Sven >8=)I had to use a whole tub of moisturizer on my face after reading your post.The skin on my face started splitting when the perpetual frown I have become accustomed to while reading coercer forum was broken by a smile.It's been a long time coming.Thanks again >8=)