Nice complaint about our Epic...

[millfac]

Before I say anything else at all I want to say this: We are, by a RIDICULOUSLY huge margin, better off than some classes. I see swashies on here complaining because dev's pay no attention to us, that they don't even read the forums.well our weapon may not be as class defining as you expected (which isn't saying much. If it was a handheld norrathian god it wouldn't be good enough for someone out there.) but at least its better than being a ranger who can't even upgrade their dps due to being forced into using T7 bows. The ranger MYTHICAL weapon is not even going to put out as much damage as a T7 fabled bow. Illusionists got a weapon that has a power proc, even though they are a class that NEVER has power problems and even TRIES to stay at 30% power due to AAs.These two examples above are what people should really complain about. Swashbucklers got off easy. At least our mythical won't be outparsed by absolution. The Dev's gave us abilities that added to what we already have and what we already do. Just because the numbers don't make you uber enough doesn't mean they don't pay attention. (I am so sick of swashies whining because they aren't getting enough help to their dps as a T2!!! dps class that parses 3-4k!!)What am I saying here? Calm down, be happy with the fact that at least the dev's paid more attention to us than to others, and most of all, don't insult them! If someone wanted me to do something and kept calling me an oversighted idiot I wouldn't budge an inch. The simple truth is this: Whether the epic is as good as you want it to be or not... you still have fun playing your class. And yes... you will still USE that weapon.if it becomes so unbelievably difficult to hold your insults, then I believe its time you just unsubscribed and went to another game. If the devs are really as bad as all of that in your eyes you have no reason to be playing this game.

[PakMonyet]

<p><span style="font-size: x-large;color: #990033;"><b><u>...STANDING APPLAUSE....</u></b></span></p><p>I totally agree Millface1.....Well Said!</p>

[NiteWolfe]

<cite>Myrze@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Before I say anything else at all I want to say this: We are, by a RIDICULOUSLY huge margin, better off than some classes. I see swashies on here complaining because dev's pay no attention to us, that they don't even read the forums.well our weapon may not be as class defining as you expected (which isn't saying much. If it was a handheld norrathian god it wouldn't be good enough for someone out there.) but at least its better than being a ranger who can't even upgrade their dps due to being forced into using T7 bows. The ranger MYTHICAL weapon is not even going to put out as much damage as a T7 fabled bow. Illusionists got a weapon that has a power proc, even though they are a class that NEVER has power problems and even TRIES to stay at 30% power due to AAs.These two examples above are what people should really complain about. Swashbucklers got off easy. At least our mythical won't be outparsed by absolution. The Dev's gave us abilities that added to what we already have and what we already do. Just because the numbers don't make you uber enough doesn't mean they don't pay attention. (I am so sick of swashies whining because they aren't getting enough help to their<span style="color: #cc0000;"><b> dps as a T2!!! dps class that parses 3-4k!!)</b></span>What am I saying here? Calm down, be happy with the fact that at least the dev's paid more attention to us than to others, and most of all, don't insult them! If someone wanted me to do something and kept calling me an oversighted idiot I wouldn't budge an inch. The simple truth is this: Whether the epic is as good as you want it to be or not... you still have fun playing your class. And yes... you will still USE that weapon.if it becomes so unbelievably difficult to hold your insults, then I believe its time you just unsubscribed and went to another game. If the devs are really as bad as all of that in your eyes you have no reason to be playing this game. </blockquote> THERE ARE NO DPS TIERS!!! Even the dev that started that age old thread later said he had made a mistake and that there was no dps tiers!! Is our weapon ok? sure ill swing it. Is it on par with the dps increase some other classes got out of theres? not by a long shot! On top of that its fugly i half way expected the mythical one to have a chicken in the middle of that joke of a rotisary spit! Just another prime example of a dev making sure his class got the very best! i would trade 8% more hate feed for 3 to 5 attacks on each swing.

[Meinen]

<p>Some people just like to vent, sure they can do it constructively.  But for some, seeing their epic weapon (which is supposed to be class defining, it does say swashbuckler only on it) turns out to be a let down in almost every aspect except DD, I think they have that right to say what they want and call shens on any dev or gallenite(sp?) himself if they want.  Or you can always go to eq2flames and really tear it up.  </p><p>Did we get hosed?  for sure.  Were we hit the hardest, no.  Is the power proc stupid for an Illusionist, hell yes it is ( i would love to see them get an extra 20% to illu arms myself <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  ).  The point is, there are a lot of unhappy players, let them whine if they want.  If someone is whining about something stupid, i just scroll to the next post and see who calls them on it.  No one makes you read any of this.</p><p>If you are fine being mediocre, hey grats to you, your epic fits you perfectly.  Let those that expect greater things from the people that supposedly want the best game out there for their player base, voice their opinions in whatever way they want (meaning with minimal swearing, only to avoid the lock).  </p><p>I wouldn't expect any changes to the epics, if they changed ours, they would have to change all the other ones that blow.  I am sorry, but the devs are just to lazy to go through and change them all.</p>

[millfac]

I wasn't commenting on those that have constructive things to say. Constantly calling the dev's lazy can't be helping... you play EQ II... and more than likely have NO IDEA how much work goes into any of the things that these guys do. For all we know they could be working their [Removed for Content] off every day to try and provide this truly massive gaming experience. Yeah they goof up, but you try making a world so large that you could do over 4,000 quests and not run out or spend 5 hours just running and still not getting everywhere there is to go. I'm not all that happy with our epic either... but insulting dev's to the point where they close threads is NOT going to fix our issue. Complain? Sure! offer feedback? Sure! [Removed for Content] off the dev's even more? not a great idea. I for one would actually like to see something changed. The more non-constructive criticism we come up with the less they are going to want to look at our issues.about tiers... ok sure no dps tiers. But I'm still going to go with the fact that its ridiculous for people to expect to keep up with assassin/ranger/wizard dps all the time. We get a boatload of utility, overall the second largest stash of debuffs of any class in the game, plus a mez, and (although nerfed) still a wicked hate transfer since we have taunts that can just add to it so much more. Assassin/ranger/wiz get basically nothing on the utility side. So if we out dps every one of them, and we get just as crazy dps procs and abilities on our weapons on top of all that utility... um... why would ANYONE play those classes?So here is my point: Voice your concerns, but be calm. Be constructive, tell the dev's what they've done right AS WELL as what they've done wrong and maybe we'll get a better response than a closed thread and an annoyed dev. Just because you THINK that you got hosed royally in every way doesn't really mean that you're right. At least leave yourself open to correction. For all of our sakes.

[Meinen]

<p>you don't have to be a programmer to understand how much coding and other work is involved in creating/maintaining a game of this scale or how sometimes it can be a pretty thankless job.  But i show thanks and appreciation for when someone does their job right.  </p>

[NiteWolfe]

<cite>Myrze@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I wasn't commenting on those that have constructive things to say. Constantly calling the dev's lazy can't be helping... you play EQ II... and more than likely have NO IDEA how much work goes into any of the things that these guys do. For all we know they could be working their [Removed for Content] off every day to try and provide this truly massive gaming experience. Yeah they goof up, but you try making a world so large that you could do over 4,000 quests and not run out or spend 5 hours just running and still not getting everywhere there is to go. I'm not all that happy with our epic either... but insulting dev's to the point where they close threads is NOT going to fix our issue. Complain? Sure! offer feedback? Sure! [Removed for Content] off the dev's even more? not a great idea. I for one would actually like to see something changed. The more non-constructive criticism we come up with the less they are going to want to look at our issues.about tiers... ok sure no dps tiers. But I'm still going to go with the fact that its ridiculous for people to expect to keep up with assassin/ranger/wizard dps all the time. We get a boatload of utility, overall the second largest stash of debuffs of any class in the game, plus a mez, and (although nerfed) still a wicked hate transfer since we have taunts that can just add to it so much more. Assassin/ranger/wiz get basically nothing on the utility side. So if we out dps every one of them, and we get just as crazy dps procs and abilities on our weapons on top of all that utility... um... why would ANYONE play those classes?So here is my point: Voice your concerns, but be calm. Be constructive, tell the dev's what they've done right AS WELL as what they've done wrong and maybe we'll get a better response than a closed thread and an annoyed dev. Just because you THINK that you got hosed royally in every way doesn't really mean that you're right. At least leave yourself open to correction. For all of our sakes. </blockquote> Sorry but i dont think of swashy as a utility class. We are debuffers and dps with a hate feed. The only think the assassins are missing from us is the debufs. Remember they also feed hate. But i didnt see them getting a freaking hate feed boost on there weapon. Here is a post from the dev himself on the hate feeds<span class="postbody"><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=374486" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="color: #cc0000;"><b>It's actually slightly different and you are just seeing a rounding error.  I fixed the rounding so the master 2 hate transfer will show 19 as will the assassin master 1 for murderous design.</b></span></a> So hate feed ( until epic) being the same. The only thing utility wise swashy had over assassin is debufs. So thats your BOATLOAD of utility we have overthem? Why not give us the flurry ability on our epic and the assassin the hate feed boost? since acording to the dev our M2 and there M1 was the same 19%. IMO saddle them with it and lets see how loud they would have cried! Now if you want to talk about hosed over the rangers got it royaly they dont even offer a hate feed nothign but dps and since rok they have been a broken class due to arrows! Wizzies they bring minor utility also in some group bufs for int and a castable damage shield. Warlocks iam pretty sure offer a couple of bufs and very nice proc increaser. So other than the ranger al lthe classes you mentioned bring some utility to a group or raid also. IMO about on scale with what we bring. Yet now with these new epics we are being regulated to a lower dps and iam sorry but it doesnt sit well with me one bit! So yes i do feel we should be able to compete on a equal dps level as a assassin. Oh and you brought up our mez will i like having it i dont find a 20s mez on a 1 min recase time to be a big utility ability.</span>

[millfac]

um... we have a debuff attached to just about EVERY CA... and as I said, we have the second largest supply of debuffs out of any class in this game.please stop acting like our class isn't good enough. just try a raid w/o a brig and swash to debuff it, its a completely different raid, and one that I want no part of. Try a raid and replace an assassin with a swash and you'd see very little difference. The same goes with wizards, warlocks, and rangers. A swashy could replace any and all of them and do the same amount of dps and you'd see almost no difference in your ability to take mobs down. So compared to the classes that have epics that you all seem to approve of, yes, we have a boatload of utility. And given that utility, I don't believe that we are really all that entitled to an increase in dps just so that other classes can come here and whine more about how we are overpowered.I'll also throw it out there that even given this epic we will still compete with assassins in dps. now our hate transfer is bigger by a pretty large scale, so we are most likely going to be wanted in groups with amazing buffs instead of the assassins. (this happens already, but I can see it happening more and more as this weapon becomes more common).

[hellskitten]

Heck I dont complain about the epic.. why should I complain about something Ill probably never see considering the way current final encounter plays out. so since Ill never have my epic Ill just sit back and let ya be my voice.

[Nailoo]

<p>Just a quick question...</p><p>May I ask how you are parsing 3-4k?  I know it's a little off topic here but I haven't been able to get a clear-cut response anywhere.  I'm almost finished with the epic and will, most likely be using it for quite a while since it seems to be an upgrade from the anaphalaxis.</p><p>Are you guys in a super raiding guild with completly fabled gear or what?  I'm in awe.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I have decent gear (mostly from RoK instances) and have read everything I can find on AA's but the best dps I get is a little over 2k.  The assassins in our guild are around 5k.  That alone has me thinking swashys are utility/dps more than straight dps like an assassin.  I do debuff and concentrate on keeping the mob swiped in raids, but where/how am I missing 2k dps?</p><p>Would either of you or both of you mind posting your specific AA line numbers?  </p><p> I would absolutly love to keep up with the assassins or at least come alot closer while being able to do all the other neat things a swash can do.</p><p>Thanks!</p>

[Faenril]

I LOL'ed at the illusionnist's power proc. Poor illusionnists they must feel like it's a joke... Regarding DPS it's hard to answer if you don't give more details about the context, since it depends on your group setup, the kind of fight/fight duration (ROK heroic content ? epic ?), if you are talking about zone wide DPS or spike DPS... For instance with an "unfriendly group", I parse usually about 2k in ROK heroic instances, but with a friendly group (with pally, templar, illy, dirge, and something ?), I parsed close to 5K on some named in CoA...So raw numbers mean nothing.

[Dreadpatch]

I'm fine with the epic, can we just get Sleight of Hand fixed : P?

[Ookami-san]

<cite>Myrze@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>um... we have a debuff attached to just about EVERY CA... and as I said, we have the second largest supply of debuffs out of any class in this game.please stop acting like our class isn't good enough. just try a raid w/o a brig and swash to debuff it, its a completely different raid, and one that I want no part of. Try a raid and replace an assassin with a swash and you'd see very little difference. The same goes with wizards, warlocks, and rangers. A swashy could replace any and all of them and do the same amount of dps and you'd see almost no difference in your ability to take mobs down. So compared to the classes that have epics that you all seem to approve of, yes, we have a boatload of utility. And given that utility, I don't believe that we are really all that entitled to an increase in dps just so that other classes can come here and whine more about how we are overpowered.I'll also throw it out there that even given this epic we will still compete with assassins in dps. now our hate transfer is bigger by a pretty large scale, so we are most likely going to be wanted in groups with amazing buffs instead of the assassins. (this happens already, but I can see it happening more and more as this weapon becomes more common). </blockquote><p>Offensive buffs are and have been nerfed for sometime.  Take the amount it says it debuffs their offensive by... and cut it by 90%... that's the difference it makes.</p><p>As someone in the brigand forums stated, and someone here re-stated, no one in the raid notices if there is no swashy, but EVERYONE notices when there is no brigand.</p><p>defensive debuffs > offensive debuffs</p>

[millfac]

<cite>Ookami-san wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Offensive buffs are and have been nerfed for sometime.  Take the amount it says it debuffs their offensive by... and cut it by 90%... that's the difference it makes.</p><p>As someone in the brigand forums stated, and someone here re-stated, no one in the raid notices if there is no swashy, but EVERYONE notices when there is no brigand.</p><p>defensive debuffs > offensive debuffs</p></blockquote>This is certainly true, but being their rogue counterpart I would say that more dps isn't what would technically balance everything... we would need SoE to fix how much of an effect we have on the offensive ability of the mobs. Which is kinda what our epic is shooting for. I don't think our epic needs changed, I think the mechanics do. And to clarify, getting 3-4k dps as a swashy or 5k as an assassin means you are in a group with at least two of the following (most of the time) dirge/illu/coercer/inqmost of the time with the same group setup, player skill, and gear a swashy can keep up just fine with an assassin.

[Suta]

<cite>Myrze@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>if it becomes so unbelievably difficult to hold your insults, then I believe its time you just unsubscribed and went to another game. If the devs are really as bad as all of that in your eyes you have no reason to be playing this game. </blockquote>If it becomes so unbelievably difficult for you to handle the simply truth that everybody should be allowed to criticize/rant/feedback about things in a game they are PAYING for, then you should just unsubscribe yourself from existance. Maybe a repressive country that doesn't allow freedom of speech would be right up your alley.

[Zaviur]

<p>At this point I just wish the final encounter wasn't as unbalanced as it is.</p>