Bug in hate gains??

[CaradosC]

<p>For a one week I've been two boxing with my sk and little fury (46 now). During this time it has happened a few times that I loose agro to my mentored fury who hasn't been doing that much during fights. I know for a 100% sure two fights (once in Obelisk of Lost Souls and once in Runnyeye) that I lost agro with a single encounter (2 and 3 mobs) at the end part of fight where all of the mobs were way below 50% of health and fury most deffinately hadnt done anything during those fights. How the heck is this possible??? Of course sk had those passive fury buffs on him agony-line, int/mit buffs and so on. But still. I dont know if fury's dmg shield or agony line procs are transferring hate to fury, but at least dmg shield shouldnt since it's sk dmg in parses. Anyway 100% of dmg AND heals were done by sk, fury not casting or not even auto attacking. I also basically always open fight with encounter taunt for dis mitigation debuff. So I'm asking again: how in earth can SK loose agro under those conditions??? Hasn't anyone else spotted anything like this?</p><p>I've seen this a few other times, but in a situations where fury had been healing or there might have been more than 8 mobs attacking sk so it's possible that spells hadn't hit everyone..</p><p>Edit: Some typofixes etc</p>

[Grimfort]

Just remember that heals/buffed procs create more aggro than anything else, unless you are using your taunts constantly its fairly easy to loose aggro as an SK due to the low dps we *generally* do. You should defo use our main taunt every time it is up, as it has a disease debuff on it as well which is uuuber useful. Theres many a thread about aggro management in this SK forum (unfortunatly).

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>There are dozens of things that can cause aggro flips that are not controllable by tanks actually. Stuns/stifles/other member buff procs/mem-blurs,dumps or wipes/Mezzes/mob de-aggro procs/Charms/scripted hate flips or locks etc etc etc.</p><p>Hard to tell what was causing it in your case without being there and watching the effects carefully.</p>

[CaradosC]

Thx for replys. But Grimfort imo you missed my point. During these fights Sk did all the damage and also all healing. Fury didn't do anything so no heal agro to him. In case procs like agony line are cre ating so much aggro that after buring a mob down t o ~25% of health and also after heals from dmg shield, reaver, coil, vitae... a mob still decides to attack idle fury because of fury's permanent buffs that were caasted pre-fight then no wonder ppl are facing problems with aggro.. and naturally I'm using all of my taunts every time they area up if I'm tanking also DM, Tap and HT for snap agro and so on..Chimp.. Those mobs were just trash mobs. 3x ^s hadowmen outside OoLS and some goblins (cant remember which ones anymore, but not named o nes for sure) at runnyeye. Sk wasnt stunned, stifled, charmed, feared, mezzed or anything like that. It's more than wierd in case such mobs are using mem wipes or scripted hate tricks. I find it hard to believe.But oh well in case no one else hasn't seen this or doesnt see in  future it has to be that I just missed something. .

[Grimfort]

If it was as described then yes, sounds like issues to me. I have never had that happen.

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

 A fair amount of trash mobs do many of those things I mentioned actually, but I dunno. Could be a bug....wouldn't be the first. I've never experienced something like that though (without it being a mob ability anyway)...thankfully hehe.

[Degrasi]

<p>Cara,</p><p>Thanks for posting this issue!  I came to forums specifically looking to find out if someone else was having problems keeping aggro.  I've been having the same problem now since approximately mid-February.  </p><p>Background: I'm a Level 80 SK speced so that I have maxed Idolic Axe and other hate generators like Siphon Hate.  All hate generating spells are either Master II (Insinuate) or AIII.  My gear is either T8 Legendary with a piece of T8 Fabled or two.  Good but not fantastic.  Basically, I can't hold aggro like I did a month ago at level 78 or so.  I even have problems if I have hate buffs/transfers from dirges and/or assassins.  Maybe I stink?  Dunno.  My problems are worse in groups than when serving as OT with my guild.  </p><p>Although I'm not sure, my AIII Chastisement appears to get resisted fairly frequently.  Perhaps upgrading to master would help?  Has anyone tried that?  I have the Cloak of Trepidation which increases threat by 50 whenever you are hit by a melee weapon and the Torque of the Nathsar which does the same.  Neither of those fully solved the issue.  I did get lucky and win a roll for the Nathsar Shortsword which procs 600 threat 1.6 times a minute.  That has helped a good bit, but things are still probably not as good (close but not quite as good) as they were a month ago.</p><p>I'd love to hear any comments or ideas.  Send a tell in game if you like.  Thanks!</p>

[Grimfort]

<p>I think the OP had a different issue to yours. His problem was snap agro for no reason, your issue seems to be holding agro in general. I don't have huge problems with agro anymore, often the wizard or assasin swipes it away from me, but then its their problem keeping alive through the beating. </p><p>However hard you try, you are going to loose it when you have members in your group doing HUGE dmg. For example, a zerker grabs agro off me so I DM and get it back, somehow he gets it back off me, so I rescue and back to me again, 3 seconds later he has agro again. Theres nothing you can do about it, even after using rescue sometimes you still loose agro, its up to the people you group with to calm down with initial spike dmg (which is the main problem imo), or stop doing anything when they pickup agro and let you get it back. Others here will post they never loose agro, blah blah blah, but they either group with sucky dmg dealers or with people who just have a better understanding on how to help out there fellow tank. I had a group with a member pulling out 5k dps in a 1 min fight (on a pvp server btw, thats huge) however I could still keep agro as it was constant dmg rather than a 30k spike with say an assasins execute.</p><p>btw, I also have a tank aa spec and my epic sword, full adp3 and a few masters. Starting off with a big dmg spell, then just constantly spamming the taunts (dont forget that tap veins is a great agro puller, esp with the epic sword). I find that you need to keep the dmg up as well as agro, ask your group to give you 2-3 seconds to get out a pulling spell then taunt with disease resists debuff and the quick dot disease then a shield bash and generally your all set, thats all it takes. In a raid you normally have someone shouting out when people can come in to allow the MT to gain a bit of hate, its no different in a group if you are having problems imo. As I group with the same people, I generally don't need to do this anymore but when in a pickup group occasionly I have to ask.Also I find that the debuffs like +-str for some reason add a decent amount of hate compared to CA's (excep the dmg +wis debuff!), however that could just be me.</p>

[Mathafern]

The only way to be sure it's a bug is to have someone grouped with you who isn't buffing you at all. As to aggro from DPSers in group, if they're pulling aggro you should suggest they wait just a little longer before starting their nuke.   One signal you can use is turning the mob when you're ready for them to nuke- this also gives scouts a shot at the back of the mob.

[Degrasi]

<cite>Grimfort wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think the OP had a different issue to yours. His problem was snap agro for no reason, your issue seems to be holding agro in general. I don't have huge problems with agro anymore, often the wizard or assasin swipes it away from me, but then its their problem keeping alive through the beating. </p><p>However hard you try, you are going to loose it when you have members in your group doing HUGE dmg. For example, a zerker grabs agro off me so I DM and get it back, somehow he gets it back off me, so I rescue and back to me again, 3 seconds later he has agro again. Theres nothing you can do about it, even after using rescue sometimes you still loose agro, its up to the people you group with to calm down with initial spike dmg (which is the main problem imo), or stop doing anything when they pickup agro and let you get it back. Others here will post they never loose agro, blah blah blah, but they either group with sucky dmg dealers or with people who just have a better understanding on how to help out there fellow tank. I had a group with a member pulling out 5k dps in a 1 min fight (on a pvp server btw, thats huge) however I could still keep agro as it was constant dmg rather than a 30k spike with say an assasins execute.</p><p>btw, I also have a tank aa spec and my epic sword, full adp3 and a few masters. Starting off with a big dmg spell, then just constantly spamming the taunts (dont forget that tap veins is a great agro puller, esp with the epic sword). I find that you need to keep the dmg up as well as agro, ask your group to give you 2-3 seconds to get out a pulling spell then taunt with disease resists debuff and the quick dot disease then a shield bash and generally your all set, thats all it takes. In a raid you normally have someone shouting out when people can come in to allow the MT to gain a bit of hate, its no different in a group if you are having problems imo. As I group with the same people, I generally don't need to do this anymore but when in a pickup group occasionly I have to ask.Also I find that the debuffs like +-str for some reason add a decent amount of hate compared to CA's (excep the dmg +wis debuff!), however that could just be me.</p></blockquote><p>Grim, Thanks for the reply.  I think the main suggestion that will help me is to ask the nukers and big melee brutes in my groups to take a deep breath.  I have been using the str debuff as a hate generator so I was pleased to see that I'm not crazy and that others do that too.  I'll keep trying other things and let you all know how it works out.  Deg</p>

[Degrasi]

<cite>Mathafern@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only way to be sure it's a bug is to have someone grouped with you who isn't buffing you at all.As to aggro from DPSers in group, if they're pulling aggro you should suggest they wait just a little longer before starting their nuke.   One signal you can use is turning the mob when you're ready for them to nuke- this also gives scouts a shot at the back of the mob.</blockquote>Math,I think using the "turning of the mob" as a signal is a good idea.  Thanks, I'll try that too.Deg

[Uggli]

Just macro your FD spell to say in group chat "This FD has been brought to you by the fool on the floor, please point and laugh so the will remember to pace their DPS to avoid future FDs".One or two of these and the rest of the group laughs, and the fool learns how to pace his damage for your agro build.