Gis for Good Guys.

[WeatherMan]

Okay...this is likely going to come across as a pointless, petulant gripe, and in point of fact, is a relatively minor issue, but I'm going to bring it up anyways.  A moderator may disagree, but I felt this was more appropriate than the 'Items and Equipment' forum, as it has little to do with the actual article, but more to the point, the appearance the article gives.In Darklight Woods, there is a quest available from Ginwys D'Arkanett (sp?) that you can obtain after doing all her quests, and then going out and killing wellspring cubs for a body drop that gives you access to two more quests that she will give you.  The reward for this is a Starched Tunic (or something like that) that any non-mage can wear (but that is only offered to brawlers).  This garment has the original Chainweave Gi graphic to it, allowing bruisers to have that 'monkish' look.This is not a gripe about that garment - there have been many of that sort of complaint posted already.My question is - where are the garments that allow a 'good' character to have the 'bruiser' look?There used to be one - the Steelweave Gi.  Now it is no longer offered - to anyone.  The few remaining are either already claimed, or sell for astronomical and wallet-sodomizing prices if they are even available at all.  So 'good' character types - i.e. Koada'Dal, halflings, fae, and so forth - can never have that parity of looks.But would it not be simple enough to offer a garment of this sort in, say, Timorous Deep?  Adding it in would be practically no work at all, graphics-wise...it is the same as the bruiser's vest that 'evil' brawlers start with, and thus a 'good' sort could get that bruiser look if he or she so desired.As I said, a minor gripe at best...but still woth bringing up, I think.

[Sapphirius]

<p>The Blooddrenched gi from D'Morte (Tombs of Night) is wearable by any brawler and has the exact same graphic as the newbie bruiser gi. I hope this answers your question.</p><p>As for gi appearances, The Chainweave Gi was once upon a time the same for both bruisers and monks. How do I know? Because my bruiser still has hers before the AQs were changed. I don't mind bruisers wearing monkish gis or monks wearing bruiserish gis (if that's even a word). I don't mind other classes now wearing gis. After all, I agree that it wasn't fair for brawlers to have a distinctive armor appearance while every other class still looked teh same. What I mind are the non brawler classes running around looking like brawlers. <b><span style="color: #ffff00;">Other classes should <i>not</i> be able to wear the monk/brawler hats </span></b>(highlighted for emphasis).</p><p><i>This</i> is what gripes my grits.</p><p><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/Sapphirius/Random%20Screenshots/MysticMonk.jpg" alt="" width="615" height="710" border="0" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The Blooddrenched gi from D'Morte (Tombs of Night) is wearable by any brawler and has the exact same graphic as the newbie bruiser gi. I hope this answers your question.</p><p>As for gi appearances, The Chainweave Gi was once upon a time the same for both bruisers and monks. How do I know? Because my bruiser still has hers before the AQs were changed. I don't mind bruisers wearing monkish gis or monks wearing bruiserish gis (if that's even a word). I don't mind other classes now wearing gis. After all, I agree that it wasn't fair for brawlers to have a distinctive armor appearance while every other class still looked teh same. What I mind are the non brawler classes running around looking like brawlers.<span style="font-size: xx-large;"> </span><span style="font-size: large;"><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">Other classes should <i>not</i> be able to wear the monk/brawler hats </span></b>(highlighted for emphasis).</span></p><p><i>This</i> is what gripes my grits.</p><p><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/Sapphirius/Random%20Screenshots/MysticMonk.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="615" height="710" /></p></blockquote><p>Text enlarged for further emphasis.</p><p>I think the last straw was specifcally how they gave the "Gi of the Jarsath Swifttail" to all classes. It has GI in the title! That's just not right!</p>

[WeatherMan]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The Blooddrenched gi from D'Morte (Tombs of Night) is wearable by any brawler and has the exact same graphic as the newbie bruiser gi. I hope this answers your question.</p></blockquote>Yes and no.Yes: I did not know about the Blooddrenched Gi's base graphic.  Thank you for bringing that to my attention, I will be sure to take my halfling through to get that ASAP.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />No: More specifically, the available options.  The base 'monk' graphic is available on over half a dozen garments, including the starter gi for monks, Armor of Bliss (from the Caves), the Starched Tunic (Darklight), Gi of the Silent Fist Initiate, and the Gi of the Dreadnaught, to name but a few.  The base bruiser look is two, three if you count the no-longer-available Steelweave Gi.  Also, the Blood Drenched Gi is not available until you successfully complete the Tombs of Night, and that will be at level...well, whatever the level it is...mid-to-late 30's, I believe.Also, the Blood Drenched Gi does not have the precise 'starter' look of the bruiser's starting garment, which the steelweave gi pretty much did, and this is what I was harping about.  One of the appeals of playing a brawler (until the Jarsath Swifttail Gi) was that your garment's appearance, unlike the clothes of other classes, didn't suck the big wazoo.  The 'base look' is available at least four times on monk appearance - for bruisers, it is but one, and if you don't start out as a bruiser, too bad for you.I know I am in a gigantic minority of people who saves their brawler's starter gear (the gi's, specifically), and that very few people will take this gripe seriously - and that's okay.  I really didn't expect much in the way of sympathy.  It just seemed to me to be a little odd (or 'off' ) that the monkish design would have such a large proliferation while the (arguable) equally-worn bruiser cut and fit is seemingly short-shirted (pun intended).

[Sapphirius]

<cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="color: #ffff00;">Also, the Blood Drenched Gi does not have the precise 'starter' look of the bruiser's starting garment,</span> which the steelweave gi pretty much did, and this is what I was harping about.  One of the appeals of playing a brawler (until the Jarsath Swifttail Gi) was that your garment's appearance, unlike the clothes of other classes, didn't suck the big wazoo.  The 'base look' is available at least four times on monk appearance - for bruisers, it is but one, and if you don't start out as a bruiser, too bad for you.</blockquote><p>Actually, the base starter look for monks is available on at least 30 different gis, and also in varying colors: blue, black, grey, yellow, white, orange... The Blood drenched gi is the EXACT same color and style of the bruiser newbie gi. How do I know? Because one of my two bruisers has both the newbie bruiser gi and the blood drenched. There is no way she can tell the difference between them. The Gi of the Disciple from Splitpaw: Acts of War is also the same graphic as the Blood drenched and bruiser newbie gi, but it is dark purple and gold in color.</p><p>Are you perhaps getting Blood drenched confused with the Blood hide gi?</p><p>One last correction. The Blood drenched gi is not a quest reward. It's a drop from Nilith T'Feyd, a named in Tombs of Night: Retribution... the third quest of the Bloodlines Chronicle series. You don't want to compelte teh quest series, or you'll never get this gi. Rather, stay on this third quest and keep killing Nilith T'Feyd until it drops.</p>

[WeatherMan]

Thank you, Sapph!I will definitely keep the ToN advice in mind.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />And thank you also for the detailed breakdown...I honestly did not know there were so many 'spin-offs' on the bruiser gi.And yes, I was confusing blood drenched with blood hide.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/49869fe8223507d7223db3451e5321aa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Sapphirius]

You are most welcome. As someone who <i>loves</i> playing druids and brawlers, I know my leather and my gis. You can also reference <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=381310" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Armor Appearances</a> and <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=87009" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Got Gi?</a> for more gi & armor information. Seagoat is curently workking on <a href="http://eq2gallery.com/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">EQ2 Gallery</a>, which will also feature information about each armor and color variations, etc.

[ke'la]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the Crafted T8 Gi's also use the Brusier Starting Graphic... or is it the Ashen Monk Graphic?

[Sapphirius]

<p>They're the Ashen graphic. Currently, this particular style of gi is the least common available... with the exception of the ROK fabled bruiser and monk gis. It would be nice if developers started using that particular graphic more often, but I think they've avoided using it because so many people mistake the gloves showing on this gi for being a bug. The Chainweave gi style is the <i>most common</i> style of gi available.</p><p>Pictured below are the Blood Drenched Gi (only 2 variations), the Blood Hide Gi (currently 6 variations), the Chainweave Gi (<i>tons</i> of variations), The Talvus Woven Gi (4 variations), ROK legendary gi (3 variations), and ROK fabled gi (2 variations).</p><p><img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Rokujou_EQ2/Leather/BloodDrenchedFemale.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="200" height="400" /> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Rokujou_EQ2/Leather/AdeptBloodHide_Female.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="200" height="400" /> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Rokujou_EQ2/Leather/Chainweave_Female.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="200" height="399" /> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Rokujou_EQ2/Leather/Talvus_Female.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="200" height="400" /> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Rokujou_EQ2/Leather/KunzarGi_Female.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="200" height="400" /> <img src="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h271/Rokujou_EQ2/Leather/ROKFabledGi_Female.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="200" height="400" /></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>There's at least 4 versions of the RoK gi, actually. Dusthide Jerkin, Gi of the Jarsath Swifttail, the Ry'Zok Faction Gi for brawlers, and the Gi of Lava for brawlers.</p><p>All those items still needs to be changed to a monk/bruiser only though.</p>

[Sapphirius]

Yes, there are 4 gis with that graphic. However, 2 of those gis (Jarsath and Dusthide) have the same graphic, so I counted those two as only 1 appearance variation. If you can tell the difference between those two gis, then you're doing better than I am.

[Cadori Seraphim]

If they were to take away the ability for other classes to wear the Gi's and the hats, I would say take away the brawlers ability to wear anything but.I personally would like to see all classes able to wear all types of armor in the fluff slots.. I see no reason for such restriction.. as the classes the get the shaft are the cloth wearers anyways.Another option, would be to enforce such things on the RP only servers.. as it makes no difference to most people on a normal server whether or not a non brawler is wearing the gi's and ugly straw hats lol.

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes, there are 4 gis with that graphic. However, 2 of those gis (Jarsath and Dusthide) have the same graphic, so I counted those two as only 1 appearance variation. If you can tell the difference between those two gis, then you're doing better than I am.</blockquote>Huh? I see a distinct green and reddish tint difference between those two.

[WeatherMan]

<cite>Sidori@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>If they were to take away the ability for other classes to wear the Gi's and the hats, I would say take away the brawlers ability to wear anything but.I personally would like to see all classes able to wear all types of armor in the fluff slots.. I see no reason for such restriction.. as the classes the get the shaft are the cloth wearers anyways.Another option, would be to enforce such things on the RP only servers.. as it makes no difference to most people on a normal server whether or not a non brawler is wearing the gi's and ugly straw hats lol.</blockquote>From the way I understand it (not the way it <i>is</i>, but the way I <i>understand</i> it, mind you), brawler gis in Norrath function in the same way that 'belts' function in the real world.  Thus, a karate (as an example) black belt worn by someone who is <i>not</i> a karate black belt indicates someone pretending to be something they are not, especially if you test their claim.  Legitimate karate practitioners are likely to be offended if a non-karate sort puts a belt on and indicates - even if such an indication is not their intent - that they are a karate practitioner.  A Dreadnaught is not going to tolerate a non-bruiser wearing their distinctive gi, and will grudgingly allow only a Silent Fist monk - a practitioner of a (distantly) related art - to don the distictive battle leathers of the brawler tradition.  No one else has 'earned' it.Mind you, my preferences as a player are at odds with this - I am a fanatical fan of choice - but this is exceedingly low on my list of things that needs to be changed right away.  Particularly since the fabled 'skeletal revamp' is likely not going to be released for a good long while, if at all.All armors in the fluff slots...doubtful.  SOE has (1) more or less indicated they aren't too concerned what our opinion on this subject is.  In any event, the solution is not, in my opinion, all things in all fluff slots, but a drastic increase in the available 'fluff' options, especially for the sartorially <strike>b*stard stepchildren</strike> disadvantaged cloth wearers (I definitely agree with you that cloth wearers get the shaft).As for 'RP servers only' - oh lord, what a mess that would cause.  People on the RP servers are now the ones who are sartorially disadvantaged ones, despite the same monies paid monthly (one argument) and the fact that they are absolutely no different from those on a non-RP server (another argument).  Basically, its singling out people on Lucan D'Lere, Venekor, and Antonia Bayle, and saying 'too bad - transfer servers or we keep giving you the long stiff one'.Mind you, I didn't say I thought it was a bad idea.  But just remembering how opinions and threads on this board tend to go, it would likely cause more problems than it would solve.

[Sapphirius]

<p><cite>Sidori@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If they were to take away the ability for other classes to wear the Gi's <b><span style="color: #ffff00;">and the hats</span></b>, I would say take away the brawlers ability to wear anything but.I personally would like to see all classes able to wear all types of armor in the fluff slots.. I see no reason for such restriction.. as the classes the get the shaft are the cloth wearers anyways.Another option, would be to enforce such things on the RP only servers.. as it makes no difference to most people on a normal server whether or not a non brawler is wearing the gi's and ugly straw hats lol.</blockquote><p>No offense, but what a totally narrow-minded stance to take! I'll even be willing to bet that you don't see a problem with this because you yourself want to wear the gi and rice hat. If you'd read, you would see that there are a lot of brawlers, myself included who don't have much of a problem with other people wearing the gi. What we have a problem with is other people wearing <b><i><u><span style="color: #ffff00;">our class hats</span></u></i></b>. Do you get the point yet? We all have out class hats that are for our use, and suddenly, anyone who can equip leather can equip our monk hats? Anyone who can wear leather and get a high enough level can look like a monk?</p><p>If this is so, then <b><i><u><span style="color: #ffff00;">ALL</span></u></i></b> the class hats should be turned<i> into <b>cloth</b></i> hats so even mages can wear them... This will include your characters' class hats, and <b><i><u><span style="color: #ffff00;">ALL</span></u></i></b> class restrictions should be removed. I'll dress my monk up in black leather with a black assassin's cowl and be a ninja. I'll put my warlock in a ranger's hood to hide her bright pink hair. I'll stick my wood elf guardian in a warden's leaf crown. Heck, I want my templar to wear the inquisitor's pope hat! Forget <i>any </i>semblence of class distinction, and let's just muddy all the waters so there is no such thing as a class look or class distinction.</p><p>(And yes, I know there is a ranger's hood wearable by anyone who can equip chain. Believe me when I say that I have just as much of a problem with that chain hood as I do with the monk hats that can be worn by classes other than brawlers.)</p><p>I don't mind the gi being worn by others, but I DO mind the rice hat. It's called a <i>class</i> hat for a reason.</p>

[Cadori Seraphim]

You didn't read my entire quoted post. I hate the hats.. they are ugly straw hats lol. (as I stated before already) So no I wont wish to wear the hat. Your attack toward me was uncalled for, and very rude. I was just stating my opinions, as well as how I thought cloth got screwed over (yet once again) in the appearance department - being stuck with the ugly cut and paste robes and very little pant and shirt options. Let me add, that I get you are passionate about your hats (no matter how ugly I feel they are lol), and I get that each class wants something that will define their class to other people. I could go either way on the hats in all honesty... I still feel, no matter what, that cloth needs more options for their appearance slot. (and that comment has nothing to do with wanting to wear a straw hat lol)

[Sapphirius]

Then perhaps you should have reworded your post to <i>not</i> include the hats. Perhaps you should have also reworded your post to be a little less agressive yourself. I took more offense to your statement about "if you make gis brawler only, then brawlers shouldn't be able to wear anything else but gis" than I did about including hats in your statement. It's your <i>all or nothing</i> attitude that raised my ire. Mayhaps you should think about that next time.

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then perhaps you should have reworded your post to <i>not</i> include the hats. Perhaps you should have also reworded your post to be a little less agressive yourself. I took more offense to your statement about "if you make gis brawler only, then brawlers shouldn't be able to wear anything else but gis" than I did about including hats in your statement. It's your <i>all or nothing</i> attitude that raised my ire. Mayhaps you should think about that next time.</blockquote>Think about what? changing my opinion to suit yours? I don't think so. My opinion is just that.. mine. As I stated already I can go either way about the hats and in doing so did NOT insult you, you however did insult me. (Narrow Minded, and accusing me of wanting to wear the ugly straw hat)I even went back and reread my statement and there was not a dang thing listed there insulting to any of the people who posted in this thread. Just an opinion like the rest of you guys.I will reiterate that perhaps such things might be best changed for sure on an RP server where your looks would indeed effect your game play. And as such I would completely agree with you and the others 100%, but only on an RP server.But as it stands on a normal server I don't feel this is a problem. With the exception that cloth still get screwed over in the *appearance slots*.

[Jhanos]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><cite>Sidori@Crushbone wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>If they were to take away the ability for other classes to wear the Gi's <b><span style="color: #ffff00;">and the hats</span></b>, I would say take away the brawlers ability to wear anything but.I personally would like to see all classes able to wear all types of armor in the fluff slots.. I see no reason for such restriction.. as the classes the get the shaft are the cloth wearers anyways.Another option, would be to enforce such things on the RP only servers.. as it makes no difference to most people on a normal server whether or not a non brawler is wearing the gi's and ugly straw hats lol.</blockquote><p>No offense, but what a totally narrow-minded stance to take! I'll even be willing to bet that you don't see a problem with this because you yourself want to wear the gi and rice hat. If you'd read, you would see that there are a lot of brawlers, myself included who don't have much of a problem with other people wearing the gi. What we have a problem with is other people wearing <b><i><u><span style="color: #ffff00;">our class hats</span></u></i></b>. Do you get the point yet? We all have out class hats that are for our use, and suddenly, anyone who can equip leather can equip our monk hats? Anyone who can wear leather and get a high enough level can look like a monk?</p><p>If this is so, then <b><i><u><span style="color: #ffff00;">ALL</span></u></i></b> the class hats should be turned<i> into <b>cloth</b></i> hats so even mages can wear them... This will include your characters' class hats, and <b><i><u><span style="color: #ffff00;">ALL</span></u></i></b> class restrictions should be removed. I'll dress my monk up in black leather with a black assassin's cowl and be a ninja. I'll put my warlock in a ranger's hood to hide her bright pink hair. I'll stick my wood elf guardian in a warden's leaf crown. Heck, I want my templar to wear the inquisitor's pope hat! Forget <i>any </i>semblence of class distinction, and let's just muddy all the waters so there is no such thing as a class look or class distinction.</p><p>(And yes, I know there is a ranger's hood wearable by anyone who can equip chain. Believe me when I say that I have just as much of a problem with that chain hood as I do with the monk hats that can be worn by classes other than brawlers.)</p><p>I don't mind the gi being worn by others, but I DO mind the rice hat. It's called a <i>class</i> hat for a reason.</p></blockquote>I agree 100 percent.  You should be able to tell class at a glance, they need to add more things to differentiate, not add more ways to bleed away the individual character of a class (or class sets). 

[Gutwren]

Give every subclass a specific look and they wouldn't have to screw with the extremely unattractive gi's/brawler hats.And the Gi's that other classes can wear... take away the name "gi" from them, and make the graphic into something other than a gi, because some of those pieces are actually decent for nonbrawlers.The mobs that drop the Gi's need to drop a chest piece, that looks VERY different for every class.So if one mob drops 1 piece of gear right now, it will need to drop another 12 pieces to even out the graphic imbalance.And if the designers are as lazy as Fyreflyte they will never make tons of different graphics.

[Cadori Seraphim]

I was talking about this issue/thread with other people and a thought dawned on me..The only reason Gi's are so dang popular.. is that they are unique. They are NOT the copy pasted robe look, they are not the copy pasted chain look, or leather look or even plate look. And while each Gi has a resemblance to the next, they are nothing like anything else in the game.Which makes them highly sought after as far as *looks* go. It would be nice, if they added more class defining elements to the game, not just the hats. Something that would set apart each class and its counterpart (i.e. warlock - wizard). Something that doesnt take a t5 raid force to get.. player made even would be nice to keep it in the economy.Just a thought, to add to the hat thing where only that class should be able to wear it.. would be nice to have class defining armor looks that can be made.Heck, even some of the brawler *arms* I have seem are so dang unique in comparison to EVERY other thing.. 

[Jhanos]

Indeed, people want options to be unique. Try this, gather 10 people your class and similar level in one place, and see how much difference there is in your gear. 

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Jhanos wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree 100 percent.  You should be able to tell class at a glance, they need to add more things to differentiate, not add more ways to bleed away the individual character of a class (or class sets).  </blockquote>Amen to this! I've been asking repeatedly for distinct class looks ever since the gi first came out. SOE's answer instead of creating more distinct class looks was to make the new gis wearable by anyone. Way to go for brilliance and creativity.

[Iseabeil]

<p>*shrugs* there is a hat from KoS raid zone with illusionist model, another from HoF with wizard model, assassain looking hat from PHH and then theres all the 'legacy hats' from when most classes hadnt gotten theirs and were using other class' looks. I dont know how many bards Ive seen with the swashie hat graphic. Its a bit too late for them to make the hats unique for a specific class.</p><p>As for the Gi's.. Id be all for class restrictions on them when other classes have <i>somethin</i> unique (and I have a monk myself).</p>

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Iseabeil wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>*shrugs* there is a hat from KoS raid zone with illusionist model, another from HoF with wizard model, assassain looking hat from PHH and then theres all the 'legacy hats' from when most classes hadnt gotten theirs and were using other class' looks. I dont know how many bards Ive seen with the swashie hat graphic. Its a bit too late for them to make the hats unique for a specific class.</p><p><span style="color: #cc00ff;">As for the Gi's.. Id be all for class restrictions on them when other classes have <i>somethin</i> unique (and I have a monk myself).</span></p></blockquote>I fully agree here (and I have a bruiser too lol). And I really wish they WOULD add in some class unique armor styles, I for one am getting tired of the old copy and paste <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />