alt model or regular model?

[Spydr]

Is it just me that it bothers that there are always 2 appearances for your one toon?Might not be a big deal i just kinda want my toon to look a certain way (one way, and not whichever one someone has picked) not to mention how my dark elf's appearances can never look similar cause the hair styles are completely differenti just want one look, thats all.

[Wilde_Night]

This is supposed to be fixed whenever the new Skeletal Revamp takes place.  They are merging the two options together, so everyone will see one choice, yours.  You want the SOGA head... fine you can have it.  While someone else picks the original model head and you see what they want you to see.

[Sapphirius]

<p>Aeviel, not to be rude, but please point me to the dev statement that clearly says this is what will happen. I'd hate to see any more misinformation get spread around because everyone's saying something different... including those people who went to Fan Faire. So far, I've heard so many things, and the devs have remained annoyingly tight-lipped on the issue. Any questions asked are typically answered with a non-commital, "It's too soon to release any information. Try in about 8 or 9 months."</p><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p>

[Dragowulf]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Aeviel, not to be rude, but please point me to the dev statement that clearly says this is what will happen. I'd hate to see any more misinformation get spread around because everyone's saying something different... including those people who went to Fan Faire. So far, I've heard so many things, and the devs have remained annoyingly tight-lipped on the issue. Any questions asked are typically answered with a non-commital, "It's too soon to release any information. Try in about 8 or 9 months."</p><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p></blockquote>Right now we are going on rumors.  Rumors are not good.  Until official confirmation I cannot believe Aeviel, yourself, or others. (Even though those who came from Fanfaire said this or that).  But, if there were to be things the dev team would of done, those two are the best choices. Personally <u>if</u> I liked regular head better on my character, I would rather have people see me with a regular head.  I wouldn't want people to see me as someone/something I don't want my character/roleplay to be perceived as.  So as my opinion, I would have to say that we should be able to set our characters to the way we want them to look, if we have SOGA head, don't let someone take it off via options, because regular wouldn't be who you thought your character was/looked like.That's just me though =)drago.

[Josgar]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Aeviel, not to be rude, but please point me to the dev statement that clearly says this is what will happen. I'd hate to see any more misinformation get spread around because everyone's saying something different... including those people who went to Fan Faire. So far, I've heard so many things, and the devs have remained annoyingly tight-lipped on the issue. Any questions asked are typically answered with a non-commital, "It's too soon to release any information. Try in about 8 or 9 months."</p><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p></blockquote>I heard server side @_@.*pokes the devs* Fan faire was an entire 6 months ago... we need more infos :O

[Besual]

<cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Aeviel, not to be rude, but please point me to the dev statement that clearly says this is what will happen. I'd hate to see any more misinformation get spread around because everyone's saying something different... including those people who went to Fan Faire. So far, I've heard so many things, and the devs have remained annoyingly tight-lipped on the issue. Any questions asked are typically answered with a non-commital, "It's too soon to release any information. Try in about 8 or 9 months."</p><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p></blockquote>Right now we are going on rumors.  Rumors are not good.  Until official confirmation I cannot believe Aeviel, yourself, or others. (Even though those who came from Fanfaire said this or that).  But, if there were to be things the dev team would of done, those two are the best choices. Personally <u>if</u> I liked regular head better on my character, I would rather have people see me with a regular head.  I wouldn't want people to see me as someone/something I don't want my character/roleplay to be perceived as.  So as my opinion, I would have to say that we should be able to set our characters to the way we want them to look, if we have SOGA head, don't let someone take it off via options, because regular wouldn't be who you thought your character was/looked like.That's just me though =)drago.</blockquote>I can't stand SOGA models and no one shall be able to force me to hurt my eyes with them.That's just my .5cp

[Melciah]

Personally I would think the better option for the new models would be to recreate the skeletal struction and flesh head to toe, and work in all the options (hairstyles, adornments, woads, etc) from both current SOE & SOGA models, that way you can keep relatively your same look, and the races won't look hugely different between models, as there will be only one with all the options of both.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Josgar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I heard server side @_@.*pokes the devs* Fan faire was an entire 6 months ago... we need more infos :O</blockquote><snorts> Good luck getting <i>any</i> information out of them. SOE has got to have the best record for communication ever. /sarcasm off

[Jhanos]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote>I heard server side @_@.*pokes the devs* Fan faire was an entire 6 months ago... we need more infos :O</blockquote><snorts> Good luck getting <i>any</i> information out of them. SOE has got to have the best record for communication ever. /sarcasm off</blockquote>Well they used to be more talkative, but after too many "Rogues are the Necromancers of Melee" style posts they learned to keep it close to the vest. 

[SilkenKidden]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p></blockquote><p>This is not directed at the person who wrote the above, but at TPTB that are going to continue this confusion.  It is just plain dumb.  Everyone should see my characters as I want them to see them.  I should see other people's characters as they want me to see them.  I don't want to decide how someone else's toon looks to me. </p>

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>Silken@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p></blockquote><p>This is not directed at the person who wrote the above, but at TPTB that are going to continue this confusion.  It is just plain dumb.  Everyone should see my characters as I want them to see them.  I should see other people's characters as they want me to see them.  I don't want to decide how someone else's toon looks to me. </p></blockquote><p>While ideal, it's not a technically viable choice right now.  Just remember that the game engine has to load and process each race's and sex's character model and animations.  Now, in order to make what you want to be viable, nearly double that load on the game engine.  Give it nearly twice the models and animations to process and enjoy the results as the game engine barfs all over your computer.</p><p>Hopefully the skeletal revamp will indeed remedy this by doing away with alternate models by either merging the options for both into one model or giving us a completely new character model with even greater customization options.</p>

[Besual]

We had so far RoK lunch and with LU42 the epic weapons. For the next month I expect general bug fixing of RoK content / epic weapons. After that...Still missing are the guild halls, PC model revamp and Kurns Tower (and I still hope for a new T8, level 71-75 instance to have a decent place to get level 71-75 masters).

[Titigabe]

<cite>Josgar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>*pokes the devs* Fan faire was an entire 6 months ago... we need more infos :O</blockquote>Yes, 6 months ago, and yet no information ... No screens, nothing.In French, we have a saying that states:"The hope makes live ... The wait makes die"

[SilkenKidden]

<cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Silken@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From what I've heard, exactly the opposite of what you say will happen. I've been told (by other players cause the devs ain't talkin) that there will be one body, but the heads will continue in the SOGA/SOE client-side choice. Which means that you may want to be seen in SOE, but if the person looking at you has SOGA turned on for your race and gender, then they'll be looking at you in SOGA.</p></blockquote><p>This is not directed at the person who wrote the above, but at TPTB that are going to continue this confusion.  It is just plain dumb.  Everyone should see my characters as I want them to see them.  I should see other people's characters as they want me to see them.  I don't want to decide how someone else's toon looks to me. </p></blockquote><p>While ideal, it's not a technically viable choice right now.  Just remember that the game engine has to load and process each race's and sex's character model and animations.  Now, in order to make what you want to be viable, nearly double that load on the game engine.  Give it nearly twice the models and animations to process and enjoy the results as the game engine barfs all over your computer.</p><p>Hopefully the skeletal revamp will indeed remedy this by doing away with alternate models by either merging the options for both into one model or giving us a completely new character model with even greater customization options.</p></blockquote><p>My point was that having two sets of models is stupid.  Therefore your arguments on the cost of presenting two sets on one client are not applicable.  I want to see only one set.  I want to have the option to use only one set.  The current implementation of the SOGA models is a mistake that SOE should corrrect.  Sapphirius wrote that SOE intended to continue this nonsense by keeping a set of SOE heads and a set of SOGA heads in the proposed new skeletal system.  They might as well not bother at all, if they don't remove the dual functionality altogether.  </p>

[Arslan2000]

<p>SOGA is not a mistake.  It was nice of SOE to give us the choice.  I loathe the original models and I sure as heck do not want to see them.  Do to posts like yours, I started putting in my bio "I only look at the game through SOGA." </p><p>Choices are good.  You do not have to see what you don't want to see.  That's good as well.  You can't make people see your toon the way YOU want without seeing their toon the way THEY want.  That means you WILL have SOGA on your screen whether you want it or not. </p><p>Now, for me, most of my characters are seen the way I made them.  I only have one model that uses SOGA, my Dark Elf.  The rest of my races have no SOGA model.  You could make the same choice, and then your character will be seen the way you want it to be seen.</p>

[Skivley101]

<p>^^^ My .... what an awesome Avatar you have. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </p><p> Edit: dang i got bumped to the next page ... my ^^^ mean nothing now <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Arslan2000]

Not a worry. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />  I figured out who you meant. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Chay]

I also have a blurb in my bio... if you're looking at me with soga on you aren't seeing me. I don't like SOGA, I don't like crafting my character only to have a SOGA face slapped on it. I tried to make SOGA look good but the controls do next to nothing to improve the look. Now if someone else wants to have themselves look SOGA that's their right to be ugly.

[Arslan2000]

<p>I agree with your point of view for the most part Chayna, but you miss a VERY important point.  Ugly is a perception in YOUR mind.  I feel the original models are hideous.  If you want reasons why, look at last weeks SOGA vs Original models.  </p><p>The thing was, until I kept reading attitudes like the one you posted, I had no desire to make a point of it.  It was on my game, my computer, and what I wanted to see.  The entire animosity some of the people spew makes me annoyed.  I mean seriously, it is no ones business what I see on my computer.  You will never look the way you want to in my eyes.  That is perception.  I will lock into something different than you will.  For all you know I made player skins of nekkid toons running around in my game.  </p><p>What if someone wants you to see the game as they do in big head mode?  Will that be acceptable?  That is the character they want you to see.</p><p>How about if a player does not want to see your apperance slot? They only want to see your regualr outfit.  Will you be happy with showing the pauper look you hate?</p><p>Did you put alot of work into your Guild cloak?  They don't care, they don't want to see your cloaks as it HURTS their performance or they think the cloaks are ugly.</p><p>(edit:  I find the art work to be beautiful on the cloaks, and it does not hurt my performance.  I do think they look like pieces of cardboard.  Look at CoH or WoW if you want to see a cloak that moves properly)</p><p>(edit part 2: Looking at the cloak last night I have to amend my previous statement.  The cloaks actually move much better than I thought.  There are situatustions where it moves like card board, but they are  not always.)</p><p>For every desire and demand, there is another player making the same demand of you.  </p><p>We have the choice as to what we make into our characters.  Not editing the other model is also a choice.  The entire versus attitude makes players ugly to each other, and as a community, that is bad.  </p>

[-Arctura-]

(( I vote PRO-CHOICE for model-viewing.I think we all have equal right to SHOW other people what WE want ourselves to Look like!!!!!!<b>A swapped head on a generic (new-revamped) body is not going to be anymore demanding on the graphics or cpu than 10000 variations of weapons, helms and armor sets.<img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/Arctura000/OB-sig.jpg" alt="" border="0" /></b>

[Dragowulf]

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( I vote PRO-CHOICE for model-viewing.I think we all have equal right to SHOW other people what WE want ourselves to Look like!!!!!!<b>A swapped head on a generic (new-revamped) body is not going to be anymore demanding on the graphics or cpu than 10000 variations of weapons, helms and armor sets.</b></blockquote>I think one of the things the devs said is that the skeletal revamp will increase performance.drago.

[Skivley101]

<cite>Chayna wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also have a blurb in my bio... if you're looking at me with soga on you aren't seeing me. I don't like SOGA, I don't like crafting my character only to have a SOGA face slapped on it. I tried to make SOGA look good but the controls do next to nothing to improve the look. Now if someone else wants to have themselves look SOGA that's their right to be ugly. </blockquote><p>Jeeze ~~~ your always drawing attention to yourself with that sig ....</p><p>or maybe it just happens?</p><p>good to see you around Chayna <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Spydr]

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think we all have equal right to SHOW other people what WE want ourselves to Look like!!!!!!</blockquote>amen

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Dragowulf2 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( I vote PRO-CHOICE for model-viewing.I think we all have equal right to SHOW other people what WE want ourselves to Look like!!!!!!<b>A swapped head on a generic (new-revamped) body is not going to be anymore demanding on the graphics or cpu than 10000 variations of weapons, helms and armor sets.</b></blockquote>I think one of the things the devs said is that the skeletal revamp will increase performance.drago.</blockquote>(( yup. Assuming there is currently 4 body models for each race (2 per gender),  when the revamp comes, there should be 2 body models per race, w/ different heads, its easy to see how much less power it will take to run it all... theoretically... O.O

[Arslan2000]

<p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ?  Where do those players that refuse to see any of their opposite model fit into your idea?  They will be [Removed for Content].  They will insult those using the opposite model.  They will refuse to group with those that do not have the proper model.  (You know it's true, there are players that bad.)  It's best to keep the choice client side.  </p><p>In the last thread, I pointed out that this bickering is a moot point.  If the skellie revamps come, they will make things different.  From what I recall reading, there is only to be one head model but they are incorporating aspects from SOGA and the original models. </p><p>My fiance pointed out something that will come as a sting to many of you.  We, on the average, do not look at a players face.  We have no clue as to what you look like.  Some time you have a helm, other times, we are simply looking at your gear.  My point is we will never see your character the way you want.  If you have not watched "What the <Bleep!>" do so.   They really go into the discussion of perception. </p>

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ? </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(( too bad. In the same way if i picked a traditional mohawk on my Non-Soga Ogre female, and a mohawk on my Soga Ogre female, and they dont like mohawks. Guess what, too bad. You're gonna see a mohawk one way or another.</span></p><p> Where do those players that refuse to see any of their opposite model fit into your idea?  They will be [Removed for Content].  </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">(( Trolls are ugly, they scare me, so i dont look at the trolls up close. So what if they get upset. They can turn away in disgust. Ugly people exist IRL you cant just magically erase their face and make it all better. Realism Ftw.</span></p>They will insult those using the opposite model. <p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Shame on them. Petty.</span></p><p>They will refuse to group with those that do not have the proper model.  (You know it's true, there are players that bad.) </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Thats funny <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Some people i tell ya 8-) Such people do not deserve the right to choose what they can or cannot see. If you acted that way IRL youd be labelled pretty quickly <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p> It's best to keep the choice client side. <span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Why not have the entire game client side? then you wont have to accept the fact its a multiplayer game filled with real other people who want to look a different way than you want them to <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span> </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;"> </span></p><span style="color: #ff0000;"></span></blockquote>*ogre-hugs*

[Amphibia]

<cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ?  Where do those players that refuse to see any of their opposite model fit into your idea?  They will be [Removed for Content].  They will insult those using the opposite model.  They will refuse to group with those that do not have the proper model.  (You know it's true, there are players that bad.)  It's best to keep the choice client side. </p></blockquote><p>Are you serious? Well, if anyone insists on being <i>that </i>much of an idiot about it, let them! This would be a really weird attitude, do you ask me. To refuse to group with someone based on what their toon looks like? Oh boy....  well, good luck to them then. It would be <i>their</i> problem, not anyone elses. </p> I honestly think it should be up to the player what their toon should look like, not other players.

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ?  Where do those players that refuse to see any of their opposite model fit into your idea?  They will be [Removed for Content].  They will insult those using the opposite model.  They will refuse to group with those that do not have the proper model.  (You know it's true, there are players that bad.)  It's best to keep the choice client side. </p></blockquote><p>Are you serious? Well, if anyone insists on being <i>that </i>much of an idiot about it, let them! This would be a really weird attitude, do you ask me. To refuse to group with someone based on what their toon looks like? Oh boy....  well, good luck to them then. It would be <i>their</i> problem, not anyone elses. </p> I honestly think it should be up to the player what their toon should look like, not other players. </blockquote>To Arslan - The people who get like that need to remember they have no choice in the matter because SOE reserves the right to change/add/edit the game how they see fit. And we all accept the UELA and TOS when we chose to play. So they can get upset and quit the game if they wish so they dont *have* to have those on their precious computers.Amphibia - I agree, this is a strange attitude for ANYONE to be taking regarding a game and how your characters look in this game. I realize we have chosen favorite looks for our toons, and also realize that we get attached to those toons being that ALOT of time is spent lvling them up and playing in this virtual world. However, I think people are really taking this over the top..  it still is a game and you are supposed to have fun playing it. (regardless of what you are doing in it).Will I be upset if I cant have my SOGA looks after the skeletal revamp? Certainly.. very upset actually. But that doesnt mean I am going to go out and start insulting people or even quit the game. I played EQ1 and back in those days (wow I sound like my grandpa! lol) we only had one type of face/body choices to make.  Did they revamp the system and add another for people to choose? yes they sure did! But in the end they took away the old all together and you were either happy or sad and had to move on and either enjoy the game or quit, regardless of how you felt about it. This isnt life or death.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ? </p></blockquote><p>These would be the same players that set one appearance and not the other... the ones where they're some striking dark elf with black hair in SOGA and have huge bright pink helmet hair in SOE model.</p><p>I set the appearances on both models for my characters so that, even though I <b><i><u>HATE</u></i></b> SOGA (particularly on females) with a passion, I still have some control over how <i>my</i> character looks on <i>your</i> screen. I'm all for allowing people to have their characters seen the way they want to be seen. I want my old human druid with thick dark auburn hair to be seen as she is: an <i>old</i> human <i>woman</i>, not some bulemic teenager. I'm still debating on calling Sesame Street's Bert and telling him he has a twin sister. Those eyebrows... <shudders></p><p><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/Sapphirius/Random%20Screenshots/Sapph_SOE_SOGA.jpg" alt="" width="1280" height="740" border="0" /></p>

[Skivley101]

<p>I personally want the change ....</p><p>This is the way i made my char</p><p> <a href="http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/Mktavish/?action=view&current=EQ2_000009-1.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/...Q2_000009-1.jpg</a></p><p>And this is the way Soe made it in Soga</p><p><a href="http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa259/Mktavish/?action=view&current=EQ2_000010-1.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/...Q2_000010-1.jpg</a></p><p>I think i might of scared a few groups off not knowing why (this guy is gona heal us?)</p><p>I guess atleast i can run around as a wolf.</p>

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ? </p></blockquote><p>These would be the same players that set one appearance and not the other... the ones where they're some striking dark elf with black hair in SOGA and have huge bright pink helmet hair in SOE model.</p><p>I set the appearances on both models for my characters so that, even though I <b><i><u>HATE</u></i></b> SOGA (particularly on females) with a passion, I still have some control over how <i>my</i> character looks on <i>your</i> screen. I'm all for allowing people to have their characters seen the way they want to be seen. I want my old human druid with thick dark auburn hair to be seen as she is: an <i>old</i> human <i>woman</i>, not some bulemic teenager. I'm still debating on calling Sesame Street's Bert and telling him he has a twin sister. Those eyebrows... <shudders></p><p><img src="http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/Sapphirius/Random%20Screenshots/Sapph_SOE_SOGA.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="1280" height="740" /></p></blockquote>You are exactly right, you can (even tho you hate the models) set them to how you would want yourself viewed in those models.I simply adore your SOGA model.. but I can also see how people would hate them. For example.. the legs.. way too scrawny.. But the SOGA face I find simply gorgeous.. not the the old one isnt ok.. just not what I prefer <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Its all a matter of opinion and respecting everyone elses opinion in that its not always going to be the same as your own.

[Arslan2000]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>What about those that are adamant about "I don't want that on my computer!!" ?  Where do those players that refuse to see any of their opposite model fit into your idea?  They will be [Removed for Content].  They will insult those using the opposite model.  They will refuse to group with those that do not have the proper model.  (You know it's true, there are players that bad.)  It's best to keep the choice client side. </p></blockquote><p>Are you serious? Well, if anyone insists on being <i>that </i>much of an idiot about it, let them! This would be a really weird attitude, do you ask me. To refuse to group with someone based on what their toon looks like? Oh boy....  well, good luck to them then. It would be <i>their</i> problem, not anyone elses. </p>I honestly think it should be up to the player what their toon should look like, not other players. </blockquote><p>Then it is a good thing that the choice is not up to the players but up to the devs.  I am not sure how it would effect performance but most players that support one model over the other also say it breaks immersion.  (I am not one of those.  I would simply ignore you.)  </p><p>The thing I see is that none of you answer the question "How exactly it harms your gameplay when someone does not see your toon the way you do?".  It doesn't.  You will never  know unless you see something in the bio or they ask you something.  It does affect other people's game play to affect their game with what you want.  In fact most of you will get [Removed for Content] at seeing the opposite model show up on YOUR screen.   THat means the idea has no positive features and lots of negative ones.  (Not that that has ever stopped SOE before...) </p><p>I still say that you will never be seen the way you want to be seen.  First off, to even see you well, I need to be in FPmode, and be right up in your face.  Depending on our relative sizes,  I could end up in your nether regions or you could end up looking up mine.  Second, there has to be no one but us in that area.  The game starts dumbing down the graphics when there are lots of people about.  We all know this.  Where that setting is varies on the PC and Player.  Third, even with all that effort, I still will not see the subtle textures you put into your character.  I will not see the ever so subtle down turn lips or the ever so subtle lift of the eye brows.  To me, the SOE humans still look like they are slightly stoned, or they are old and diseased. And that is just one race.  So that hour that we spend to make our character look the way we want was wasted.  </p><p>We have no right and no foot to stand on in affecting other players gameplay negatively for our own desires.  SOE has the right to say what is what, and they have.</p><p>From Arctura:</p><p>It's best to keep the choice client side. </p><p>Why not have the entire game client side? then you wont have to accept the fact its a multiplayer game filled with real other people who want to look a different way than you want them to <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>I hope you are being snarky.  The only reason I play on the computer is for MMO's.  I loathe PC gaming and always have.  Statements like that only continue the elitism the PC gamers seem to have in common.   What you are missing is that the MMO is filled with real people who want to see the game the way they choose.  Unless you are offering to pay for their subscription, you have no right to tell them they are wrong. </p>

[Chay]

<cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with your point of view for the most part Chayna, but you miss a VERY important point.  Ugly is a perception in YOUR mind.  I feel the original models are hideous.  If you want reasons why, look at last weeks SOGA vs Original models.  </p><p>The thing was, until I kept reading attitudes like the one you posted, I had no desire to make a point of it.  It was on my game, my computer, and what I wanted to see.  The entire animosity some of the people spew makes me annoyed.  I mean seriously, it is no ones business what I see on my computer.  You will never look the way you want to in my eyes.  That is perception.  I will lock into something different than you will.  For all you know I made player skins of nekkid toons running around in my game.  </p><p>What if someone wants you to see the game as they do in big head mode?  Will that be acceptable?  That is the character they want you to see.</p><p>How about if a player does not want to see your apperance slot? They only want to see your regualr outfit.  Will you be happy with showing the pauper look you hate?</p><p>Did you put alot of work into your Guild cloak?  They don't care, they don't want to see your cloaks as it HURTS their performance or they think the cloaks are ugly.</p><p>(edit:  I find the art work to be beautiful on the cloaks, and it does not hurt my performance.  I do think they look like pieces of cardboard.  Look at CoH or WoW if you want to see a cloak that moves properly)</p><p>(edit part 2: Looking at the cloak last night I have to amend my previous statement.  The cloaks actually move much better than I thought.  There are situatustions where it moves like card board, but they are  not always.)</p><p>For every desire and demand, there is another player making the same demand of you.  </p><p>We have the choice as to what we make into our characters.  Not editing the other model is also a choice.  The entire versus attitude makes players ugly to each other, and as a community, that is bad.  </p></blockquote>You're being presumptuous about what I miss and don't miss. Just because I don't mention it outright doesn't mean I don't understand perception. I simply stated my perception. I have no desire to assume what other people's perceptions may be. It's redundant to state "In  my opinion".  There is no accounting for taste in either direction.My "Attitude" (tm) is my own and you have no clue about what my "Attitude" is. At what point did I spew animosity? I believe the only animosity is in your response. If you want animosity look in the mirror. I simply stated how I feel it should be. It doesn't discount from how you feel it should be. It doesn't have any effect on you what so ever accept for the baggage you bring to the conversation. I create the image of my characters as an extension of their personality. Looking at them as SOGA is wrong because they aren't. You might as well just make them all ogres or field mice if you're going to alter their image. That's my opinion, my perception, my point of view. And does that matter? Only to me. So step down from the "higher ground" and allow others to have their perceptions of how things should be as well.Your nekkid, cutemode, and other arguments are laughable. I'm sorry but grasping at the extreme never makes the point.Your appearance slot argument fits my point not yours. You should be arguing that people should be able to turn off the appearance slots of others. I'm absolutely fine with the appearance slots because that's how the player wants their characters to appear... which was my point.I hate capes. I don't show mine. But I don't care if someone wants to look like Super Paladin or worse like the cape is attached to their skin.All I said was... If you are looking at me with SOGA you aren't seeing me. And I explained in the simplest of terms why that is. I also stated that SOGA models are ugly. Again, I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours. I never said you weren't which based on your commentary you think I did. I would be perfectly happy if I saw those with SOGA models running around as SOGA as long as they saw me as I'm meant to be. I think that would be quite diplomatic.If you take offense at me expressing my opinion then the only harm you're doing is to yourself.

[Sapphirius]

It wouldn't be so bad if I could actually <u><i><b>AGE</b></i></u> my human in SOGA form. My goodness, does SOGA think humans stay young forever? If it weren't for their bodies and my lack of ability to age my characters, I might actually use SOGA more often, but being the visual person I am, I just can't bring myself to turn them on.

[Chay]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Chayna wrote:</cite><blockquote>I also have a blurb in my bio... if you're looking at me with soga on you aren't seeing me. I don't like SOGA, I don't like crafting my character only to have a SOGA face slapped on it. I tried to make SOGA look good but the controls do next to nothing to improve the look. Now if someone else wants to have themselves look SOGA that's their right to be ugly. </blockquote><p>Jeeze ~~~ your always drawing attention to yourself with that sig ....</p><p>or maybe it just happens?</p><p>good to see you around Chayna <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote>OMG! We've not debated in ages! LOL!That's me with the loud sig!I just realized I hadn't stirred things up in a while! I've been restful!PS the SOGA version of you scares me. He looks angry.

[Cadori Seraphim]

<cite>Chayna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>All I said was... If you are looking at me with SOGA you aren't seeing me. And I explained in the simplest of terms why that is. I also stated that SOGA models are ugly. Again, I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours. I never said you weren't which based on your commentary you think I did. I would be perfectly happy if I saw those with SOGA models running around as SOGA as long as they saw me as I'm meant to be. I think that would be quite diplomatic.If you take offense at me expressing my opinion then the only harm you're doing is to yourself.</blockquote>I actually have something like that in my bio as well. (if you are looking at me in the old ugly models you arent looking at the REAL me). And you will even notice that (in my sig) on the gnome female models I am using the old models <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> So I do like some of the old models!And I agree with you 100% about people seeing me for how *I* want to be seen.  It just makes sense really. If that means I would need to look at alot of ugly old models because thats how others like themselves to be seen, so be it. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />Your ugly is my gorgeous and vice versa <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" /> No problem with that at all, we are entitled to our own views.

[Chay]

That's absolutely right!

[Arslan2000]

<cite>Chayna wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Arslan2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I agree with your point of view for the most part Chayna, but you miss a VERY important point.  Ugly is a perception in YOUR mind.  I feel the original models are hideous.  If you want reasons why, look at last weeks SOGA vs Original models.  </p><p>The thing was, until I kept reading attitudes like the one you posted, I had no desire to make a point of it.  It was on my game, my computer, and what I wanted to see.  The entire animosity some of the people spew makes me annoyed.  I mean seriously, it is no ones business what I see on my computer.  You will never look the way you want to in my eyes.  That is perception.  I will lock into something different than you will.  For all you know I made player skins of nekkid toons running around in my game.  </p><p>What if someone wants you to see the game as they do in big head mode?  Will that be acceptable?  That is the character they want you to see.</p><p>How about if a player does not want to see your apperance slot? They only want to see your regualr outfit.  Will you be happy with showing the pauper look you hate?</p><p>Did you put alot of work into your Guild cloak?  They don't care, they don't want to see your cloaks as it HURTS their performance or they think the cloaks are ugly.</p><p>(edit:  I find the art work to be beautiful on the cloaks, and it does not hurt my performance.  I do think they look like pieces of cardboard.  Look at CoH or WoW if you want to see a cloak that moves properly)</p><p>(edit part 2: Looking at the cloak last night I have to amend my previous statement.  The cloaks actually move much better than I thought.  There are situatustions where it moves like card board, but they are  not always.)</p><p>For every desire and demand, there is another player making the same demand of you.  </p><p>We have the choice as to what we make into our characters.  Not editing the other model is also a choice.  The entire versus attitude makes players ugly to each other, and as a community, that is bad.  </p></blockquote><p>You're being presumptuous about what I miss and don't miss. Just because I don't mention it outright doesn't mean I don't understand perception. I simply stated my perception. I have no desire to assume what other people's perceptions may be. It's redundant to state "In  my opinion".  There is no accounting for taste in either direction.My "Attitude" (tm) is my own and you have no clue about what my "Attitude" is. At what point did I spew animosity?  <span style="color: #ff0000;">You never did spew animosity.  Notice I said that "some people" not "you" in my original post. If you have been reading these threads long enough, you know as well as I do that there are some pretty mean spirited people out there.  You stated that the players using SOGA were ugly as if it were fact, not opinion.  That is where I get offended.  </span></p><p> I believe the only animosity is in your response. If you want animosity look in the mirror. I simply stated how I feel it should be. It doesn't discount from how you feel it should be. It doesn't have any effect on you what so ever accept for the baggage you bring to the conversation. I create the image of my characters as an extension of their personality. Looking at them as SOGA is wrong because they aren't. You might as well just make them all ogres or field mice if you're going to alter their image. That's my opinion, my perception, my point of view. And does that matter? Only to me. So step down from the "higher ground" and allow others to have their perceptions of how things should be as well.Your nekkid, cutemode, and other arguments are laughable. I'm sorry but grasping at the extreme never makes the point.Your appearance slot argument fits my point not yours. You should be arguing that people should be able to turn off the appearance slots of others. I'm absolutely fine with the appearance slots because that's how the player wants their characters to appear... which was my point.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">No I shouldn't.  You are taking my arguements as my opinion.  I was stating other points of view.   If you want to have only your appearance slot up, why should I care.  It seems the only people that really cared were PVPers, and the good PVPers stated that most of them would inspect the toon they were getting ready to attack anyhow so there would be no surprises.</span></p><p>I hate capes. I don't show mine. But I don't care if someone wants to look like Super Paladin or worse like the cape is attached to their skin.  <span style="color: #ff0000;">Heh. Super Paladin. That's pretty much my point of view as well.  I wear mine to show guild colors, but there are occasions when the cloak is clearly an eyesore.  Everytime my ratonga wears his I go around muttering "Super Rat"</span>All I said was... If you are looking at me with SOGA you aren't seeing me. And I explained in the simplest of terms why that is. I also stated that SOGA models are ugly. Again, I'm entitled to my opinion just as you are entitled to yours. I never said you weren't which based on your commentary you think I did. I would be perfectly happy if I saw those with SOGA models running around as SOGA as long as they saw me as I'm meant to be. I think that would be quite diplomatic.If you take offense at me expressing my opinion then the only harm you're doing is to yourself.</p></blockquote><p>Look, I am fine on agreeing to disagree.  I, personally, have been trying to state my opinions as neutrally as possible as the opinions I state could be shared by those that like the original models OR the SOGA models.  I made my stance clear some time ago.  I find myself in the weird place of not defending SOGA par se, but defending the choice to see the game as we want to see it.  We have no right to tell the other player how to see the game.   That is my stance on this subject.  I could care less whether you use SOGA or original models.  That is your side of the game. </p>

[-Arctura-]

<cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And this is the way Soe made it in Soga</p></blockquote>(( actually SOGA made the SOGA models, not SOE <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[LordPazuzu]

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And this is the way Soe made it in Soga</p></blockquote>(( actually SOGA made the SOGA models, not SOE <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>Yes.  SOGA made the models for the Asian release of EQ2 to appeal to the Asian market.  SOE later added them as an option as part of a free update, largely as a way of saying thank you to the playerbase for putting up with alot of the early crap that marred the game performance and gameplay.  I don't like the SOGA models, except for the Ogres, but I respect that everyone has their own tastes and I think it was very nice of SOE to go to the trouble of incorporating an additional choice for character models into the game when they certainly did not have too.  I like viewing the world in the original models.  If you want to view the world in SOGA and see my character in SOGA, why the hell should I care?  I see what's on my computer and that's it.  People getting [Removed for Content] about how other's view their character need to get over themselves.  How others view you really has no bearing whatsoever on your gameplay, so quit being a so whiny and oversensitive.  All of this whiny emo crap about this is getting old.  Get over it and move on with your life.

[Rissu]

Oooh, it's the /beat the dead horse thread again !I use SOGA all the way.  I like the SOGA models vs. the old models... but I will not and do not force my preferences upon others.  As some have stated before, it's a preference.  If you want to view me in old models, I don't care.  I am not going to get angry.  This is a game, I don't expect my character to look "realistic".  I just find it silly that some people are so adamant about how they want others to view them.  You can only control your own actions, not the actions of others.  TBH when I created my first character, I was rather dismayed about the appearance choices and was really turned off by the old models until a friend told me about the alternate (SOGA) choice.  If I had no choice, I doubt I would have continued playing or enjoyed my character as much as I do now.    As someone who was a die-hard Teir'dal player in EQ1, both old and soga models are icky to me and I ended up making a half elf as my main.  Oddly though, my character in game looks similar to how I look IRL =xI do hope when the mythical revamp does happen, that we are given a choice and that there are more hair options (and color options too -- so envious of the fae/arasai hair colors).Anyways, enough of my useless input <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Skivley101]

<cite>Sulan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skivley101 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>And this is the way Soe made it in Soga</p></blockquote>(( actually SOGA made the SOGA models, not SOE <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>Yes.  SOGA made the models for the Asian release of EQ2 to appeal to the Asian market.  SOE later added them as an option as part of a free update, largely as a way of saying thank you to the playerbase for putting up with alot of the early crap that marred the game performance and gameplay.  I don't like the SOGA models, except for the Ogres, but I respect that everyone has their own tastes and I think it was very nice of SOE to go to the trouble of incorporating an additional choice for character models into the game when they certainly did not have too.  I like viewing the world in the original models.  If you want to view the world in SOGA and see my character in SOGA, why the hell should I care?  I see what's on my computer and that's it.  People getting [Removed for Content] about how other's view their character need to get over themselves.  How others view you really has no bearing whatsoever on your gameplay, so quit being a so whiny and oversensitive.  All of this whiny emo crap about this is getting old.  Get over it and move on with your life.</blockquote>Well who ever ... The point was i didnt make him , And yes hes scary Chayna .... Looks like one of those guys from Road Warrior.

[Crimmyblues]

People have different aesthetic tastes, which is why the SOGA models were made to begin with.Why not use it as an opportunity to set two different looks for your character, akin to COX's costume system.My berserker in SOE looks like a viking while in Soga he looks like black, blonde Leonidas. SPARTAAAAAA

[-Arctura-]

(( bottom line is, play on PvP servers.If someones face offends you, rip it off and stamp on it.That way you can effectively ensure that no hideous avatars come near you 8-)

[Crimmyblues]

Problem solved!

[liinc]

I am rather new to eq2, but I thought that this skeletal revamp was primarily for armor and weapon enhancement. Not that the look of your character isn't important, but seriosuly when your fully decked out not many people are interested in the face of course you have the helm graphic off. But right not the armor graphics are so poor in stature I guess appearance is more important to some.

[-Arctura-]

(( well, once you find some good looking stuff, (which there is so precious few examples of), you'll learn to love it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g69/Arctura000/DarkShadow2ONEXX--------------.gif" alt="" border="0" />

[Sapphirius]

<p>Yup, <nod nods> appearance actually matters quite a bit to a lot of people. Just because you don't think it's a big deal doesn't mean that no one else does. Appearance is one of a few huge reasons for why a lot of people have stayed with EQ2 or have come back to EQ2, and they will state this on the forums. Just do a search for threads speaking about character appearances, and you can find them.</p><p>I have finished assembling the perfect look for most of my characters, but I still have a couple that I just can't find the one or two looks that fit them perfectly. I'm hoping that new armor will eventually be intriduced that will fit them nicely. It may be 6 years from now before we see these new looks and the mythical skeletal revamp (which I'm starting to think doesn't exist at all).</p>

[liinc]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Yup, <nod nods> appearance actually matters quite a bit to a lot of people. Just because you don't think it's a big deal doesn't mean that no one else does. Appearance is one of a few huge reasons for why a lot of people have stayed with EQ2 or have come back to EQ2, and they will state this on the forums. Just do a search for threads speaking about character appearances, and you can find them.</p><p>I have finished assembling the perfect look for most of my characters, but I still have a couple that I just can't find the one or two looks that fit them perfectly. I'm hoping that new armor will eventually be intriduced that will fit them nicely. It may be 6 years from now before we see these new looks and the mythical skeletal revamp (which I'm starting to think doesn't exist at all).</p></blockquote>This game won't last another 2 years if they don't start making some graphical enhancements to characters and such. With games like warhammer, and age of conan and many other upcoming MMO's that will look more pleasing to the eye will give eq2 a more than run for there money.I personally find it arrogant on behalf of the EQ2 team to be so hush about something like this. they can say yes there is a plan, or no we do not have any plans to change the models or armor. People do raid and quest for better stat itemization, but putting on a swanky new piece of armor that just wows people is what most will remember.I hate to bring up WoW, that is where I am formally from but there are fantastic with armor and items in game, However I give eq2 the heads up on player models.

[Grol]

<p>My character, Thramir the Red, is so called because of his non-SOGA appearance, the one in my signature. His skin and hair is red, as are his clothes now (yay).</p><p>However, I made his SOGA model as red as I could, but he's just pretty tan. It's annoying, but the clothes and hair make up for it.</p><p>I like to see the one people want me to see.. but that's not always for sure.</p><p>I keep my settings with most non-SOGA, but wtih dark elf females as SOGA, human female as SOGA, and..hmm...I think Ogres as SOGA. I justlike the models better.</p>

[-Arctura-]

(( for the same reason you cant choose to hide your name if you want to, you shouldnt be able to hide your face or your body shape / appearance from someone, unless you have an illusion or something.If you are standing around just plain as day, you should appear as THEY want YOU to see THEM.Not vice versa.If thats not fair to you, im sorry but you have to realise you play this game with other real human beings who have their own CHOICES! 8-)If you dont like their face, walk away, or go join pvp and kill them, so you dont have to endure it any minute longer <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sapphirius]

<points at Kanesh's sig> He <i>is</i> on PvP, Skree. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />