Portable crafting tables

[ashen1973]

<p>Not sure if this is in the realms of the TS dev to change but.....</p><p>Just lately i'm finding the tinkered protable crafting tables more and more usefull.</p><p>What with the AA mirrors and the updates for the TS epic quest requiring use of the commission system, i've been meeting a lot of people at SS dock to craft for them.</p><p>(I know there are other locations, but this is a great spot that is easy for citizens of all cities to reach)</p><p>For this, the portable tables ae a god-send, but there is one problem.</p><p>When called the tables alst 5 minutes, this is perfectly Ok with me and reasonable for 1 charge.</p><p>But, the re-use timer is 15 minutes. So you have to wait 10 minutes before you can craft again.</p><p>is there any chance of getting the re-use timer lowered a bit? Even down to 10 minutes , leaving a 5 minute gap, would be great.</p>

[Karlen]

Question for those that use them:  If you are working on something when the 5 min timer runs out, can you complete the item or do you lose it?

[Garoc_the_Dark]

I used a portable chem table to hit lvl 80 Alchemist in Shard of Fear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[KerowynnKaotic]

<p>oh! OH!! OHHH!!!  *waves her hand in the air frantically* </p><p>I second the request!  </p><p>Please change the refresh timer on them to 10mins (from start so 5mins wait). </p><p>Or,  Change the Duration to be 10mins .. either or .. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Valdaglerion]

I am hoping that Domino can really look at the tinkering itemization for some items this year and these are one of them for sure. Recast timers on charged items just simply dont make sense. Think about shareware software that is charged for instance. You can use the software typically either a set number of times OR for a set number of days (time) but never a "wait" in between uses.Charged items should not have a recast timer in my opinion. If I am paying to use it then let me use it as often as I am willing to pay for. If there is an upfront cost but the item has unlimited uses like spells for instance then fine, impose a recast timer.Tinkering suffers from too many costs associated with the items. They are costly up front (many requiring multiple rares to make), blueprints for useful items are almost mythical in drop rates, they get nerfed repeatedly to preserve balance. This one cracks me up:FD device for tinkers: 1s cast (thankful for this change, 100% chance (nice), 5 charges per item, seems the cost is about 5g per use, 30minute recastFD for my bruiser: 1s cast, 97% chance, unlimited use, 6s recastComparison for 30 minutes of usage:Tinkerer: 1 use at 5g costBruiser: 300 uses at 0 costbalanced?Most useful items are like this. Still question the gnomish safety recaller, the blueprint is ungodly rare, right up there with the hover deivce and mender bot and is a charged item  that requires a T6 Vanadium to recharge plus other materials and fuels. These items become "in case of emergency" only items.The hover device is borked badly. You dismount, charge used! Its a fluff mount basically and the rarest of the blueprints by far, havent seen one on the broker in over 9 months and that one was listed for like 225p.

[Sayne]

<cite>Karlen@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Question for those that use them:  If you are working on something when the 5 min timer runs out, can you complete the item or do you lose it?</blockquote>If you ahve already started the combine, you can finish it, even if the table disappeared the second after you started it.  I've done this myself <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[greenmantle]

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>FD device for tinkers: 1s cast (thankful for this change, 100% chance (nice), 5 charges per item, seems the cost is about 5g per use, 30minute recastFD for my bruiser: 1s cast, 97% chance, unlimited use, 6s recastComparison for 30 minutes of usage:Tinkerer: 1 use at 5g costBruiser: 300 uses at 0 costbalanced?</blockquote>Not really but i guess most bruisers dont know  that one of their class skills was given to trade skillers.  Now a guardian can not only gets his skills but if he choses tinkering can fd as well. Perhaps if we post this in the brawler forums we can get a move going to have is reduced to 97% because the 100% is unbalanced?

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>greenmantle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>FD device for tinkers: 1s cast (thankful for this change, 100% chance (nice), 5 charges per item, seems the cost is about 5g per use, 30minute recastFD for my bruiser: 1s cast, 97% chance, unlimited use, 6s recastComparison for 30 minutes of usage:Tinkerer: 1 use at 5g costBruiser: 300 uses at 0 costbalanced?</blockquote>Not really but i guess most bruisers dont know  that one of their class skills was given to trade skillers.  Now a guardian can not only gets his skills but if he choses tinkering can fd as well. Perhaps if we post this in the brawler forums we can get a move going to have is reduced to 97% because the 100% is unbalanced?</blockquote>I have got to get more information out of my head as I dont explain things very well to begin with and its frustrating to me. I am not suggesting that tinkered items need to be necessarily balanced with the class abilities but balanced within themselves.Bruisers get their first FD around level 14 not a lot of time or skill needed to get that skill other than be a bruiser and play 2-3 hours. A tinker's skill opportunity is based on their primary crafting skill so to be a 400 tinkerer you have to be a 80 something else first. You have to effectively level twice and tinkering/transmuting are much more time consuming than the primary craft class. That said, the FD item comes in around T6 for tinkering I think. There is considerable more investment and skill needed to get the ability in the first place.Another stat I neglected to mention was the tinker FD last for 3 minutes, bruiser last for 12 hours. The point here being is that there is no balance in usefulness of the items between tinkered and class ability but when you put additional cost on top of the nerfed usage it doesnt seem right.The balance I was referring to is a balance within the tinkered items when considering how they match against class abilities (where applicable) and the price, components, blueprints etc needed to create them and continue to use them.

[Motown]

<cite>Kalyyn@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>is there any chance of getting the re-use timer lowered a bit? Even down to 10 minutes , <b>leaving a 5 minute gap</b>, would be great.</p></blockquote>Why does there have to be a gap at all?Honestly, I don't know why they don't have 5 min duration with 5 min recast i.e. no downtime.  There may be some raid related reason why that's undesirable, but given multiple people can summon tables for all to use, I don't see it. One of Sony's stated aims for crafters in recent times is to get them out of the dungeons and interact with the people more, yet one of the more useful tools to achieve this has been hobbled for reasons I'm having trouble grasping.  They're not free to use, take up bag space and have limited charges.  Make the recast the same as the duration and the prospect of a Christo-inspired field of chemistry tables becomes quite unlikely.  Why the limitation?  True, some folk may sit in their house and chain cast a table, thereby flaunting the requirements to obtain a permanent, elaborate table, but if there's a tangible benefit to throwing away money like that, it eludes me.Remove the limitation and I can finally launch <i>Rashid's Roaming Restaurant</i>, coming to a dock near you, safe in the knowledge that there won't be any embarrassing downtime where potential customers have to listen to ten minutes of <i>The Girl From Ipanema</i> while I track down my missing kitchen.  Limitation free, <i>Pablo's Peripatetic Apothecary</i> will be able to make all twelve of those Adept 3s you require at SS docks, without playing musical baubles.They encourage social play and facilitate commission work in the field.  Domino, please consider changing them to be more business-friendly.

[Jehannum]

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have got to get more information out of my head as I dont explain things very well to begin with and its frustrating to me. I am not suggesting that tinkered items need to be necessarily balanced with the class abilities but balanced within themselves.Bruisers get their first FD around level 14 not a lot of time or skill needed to get that skill other than be a bruiser and play 2-3 hours. <b>A tinker's skill opportunity is based on their primary crafting skill so to be a 400 tinkerer you have to be a 80 something else first. You have to effectively level twice and tinkering/transmuting are much more time consuming than the primary craft class.</b> That said, the FD item comes in around T6 for tinkering I think. There is considerable more investment and skill needed to get the ability in the first place.Another stat I neglected to mention was the tinker FD last for 3 minutes, bruiser last for 12 hours. The point here being is that there is no balance in usefulness of the items between tinkered and class ability but when you put additional cost on top of the nerfed usage it doesnt seem right.The balance I was referring to is a balance within the tinkered items when considering how they match against class abilities (where applicable) and the price, components, blueprints etc needed to create them and continue to use them.</blockquote><p>I disagree somewhat with the section I've bolded; I'd grant that if all the harvesting etc were done by the tinker, it might well take a long time to get done.  First though, I'd always understood tinkering to be based off adventuring level rather than crafting.  Not a biggie either way even if I'm wrong, but still.  Also, I found tinkering far faster to level than anything else I've done (save for things like swimming).  Maybe I got lucky, but I went from 0 to 400 in a week and a half's spare time (while not running instances, making food etc)   Probably took close to 30 hours of in-game time, all told.</p><p>I'm not sure our tinkered feign needs to be improved; having multiple feigns on multiple timers pretty much takes care of things most of the time for me.  If the heart stopper doesn't work, the secret of death will, as long as I still have a second.  Same thing with the rez items.  In fact, I suspect that if the timer for feign were reduced substantially or the duration increased, that probably <i>would</i> start to step on the toes of bruisers and necromancers.  As it is, the devices are a godsend as precisely what they were intended to be; emergency, one-shot devices which can mitigate a wipe.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Jehannum wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have got to get more information out of my head as I dont explain things very well to begin with and its frustrating to me. I am not suggesting that tinkered items need to be necessarily balanced with the class abilities but balanced within themselves.Bruisers get their first FD around level 14 not a lot of time or skill needed to get that skill other than be a bruiser and play 2-3 hours. <b>A tinker's skill opportunity is based on their primary crafting skill so to be a 400 tinkerer you have to be a 80 something else first. You have to effectively level twice and tinkering/transmuting are much more time consuming than the primary craft class.</b> That said, the FD item comes in around T6 for tinkering I think. There is considerable more investment and skill needed to get the ability in the first place.Another stat I neglected to mention was the tinker FD last for 3 minutes, bruiser last for 12 hours. The point here being is that there is no balance in usefulness of the items between tinkered and class ability but when you put additional cost on top of the nerfed usage it doesnt seem right.The balance I was referring to is a balance within the tinkered items when considering how they match against class abilities (where applicable) and the price, components, blueprints etc needed to create them and continue to use them.</blockquote><p>I disagree somewhat with the section I've bolded; I'd grant that if all the harvesting etc were done by the tinker, it might well take a long time to get done.  First though, I'd always understood tinkering to be based off adventuring level rather than crafting.  Not a biggie either way even if I'm wrong, but still.  Also, I found tinkering far faster to level than anything else I've done (save for things like swimming).  Maybe I got lucky, but I went from 0 to 400 in a week and a half's spare time (while not running instances, making food etc)   Probably took close to 30 hours of in-game time, all told.</p><p>I'm not sure our tinkered feign needs to be improved; having multiple feigns on multiple timers pretty much takes care of things most of the time for me.  If the heart stopper doesn't work, the secret of death will, as long as I still have a second.  Same thing with the rez items.  In fact, I suspect that if the timer for feign were reduced substantially or the duration increased, that probably <i>would</i> start to step on the toes of bruisers and necromancers.  As it is, the devices are a godsend as precisely what they were intended to be; emergency, one-shot devices which can mitigate a wipe.</p></blockquote>There are 2 ways to level Tinkering/Transmuting - cheap or fast. Obviously you can buy all the raws and bypass the time of harvesting, etc and that cost on our server is still around 100p to level 400 in tinkering or transmuting, give or take.Harvesting skill can be raised based on either adventuring or crafting level, whichever is higher but the secondary trade skill class can not be raised higher than the primary trade skill level.Time to level is based on time to do it yourself, not buy the goods. The amount of goods needed to level the secondary trade skill class is higher than the primary so the harvesting time is a consideration.

[SilkenKidden]

<cite>Karlen@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Question for those that use them:  If you are working on something when the 5 min timer runs out, can you complete the item or do you lose it?</blockquote><p>You can complete the item.  It is really amusing.  The portable table disappears, but the crafting window stays open and you continue hammering or stitching, as the case may be, until the item is complete. </p>