Templar epic (wizzy too tho) doomed by SOE

[Bishojo]

<p>Well guys, I "copleted" my epic quest somehow just to find out:</p><p>1. No way a PU group is making to the last update named, Kotiz. I am tired of deaths and overstartings again and again.2. No way 1 group can get there alone, unless its a group from a real HC playing guild : (3. Need at lest 10 people, incl 1 tank 2 more healers and 6 superb dps to get to the VS raid zone zi, even to chk if  Kotiz is up.</p><p>4. SOE has added some optional update instead of Kotiz kill since :a) people who are going to the craft table are killing him for lootb) wizard killing him for epicc) other templars killing him fo repicd) people are killing him anyway for loote) guilds are killing him while heading to VS raidd) he is on 4 hours repop timer</p><p>BUT!!</p><p>5. No one has an idea what is the update option beside Kotiz, since SOE didnt modified the quest text nor give us any clue.</p><p>Is it realy hard to say what is the other option to get our updates???? Dear SOE you could have give us a clue, or change a quest text a bit to point us somewhere? No, that would be too easy???</p><p>I am mad, forgive me.</p><p>Anyway, anyone found an info what is the update change beside Kotiz?</p>

[Deowyn05]

I know that it is frustrating when you want to get something accomplished but feel like you can't. SOE obviously understands that the Seb camp is a little ridiculous at this point and has taken steps to alleviate that. Have a little patience and someone will find it. At least ours worked from the beginning. Many other classes had steps that couldn't be completed because it was bugged. This is an epic quest after all and there should be some challenge involved.As far as pick up groups in Seb I agree that it can be hard to do, but a decent guild group should be able to accomplish that. If there was no way one group could make it alone there wouldn't be an issue with Kotiz always being killed by others. Obviously many people are finding a way down there. I sympathize with the way you're feeling but try to relax a little and just wait it out. Someone will find the alternate way to get the Kotiz update and then you can finish the quest.

[Filroden]

<cite>Bishojo wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>BUT!!</p><p>5. No one has an idea what is the update option beside Kotiz, since SOE didnt modified the quest text nor give us any clue.</p><p>Is it realy hard to say what is the other option to get our updates???? Dear SOE you could have give us a clue, or change a quest text a bit to point us somewhere? No, that would be too easy???</p></blockquote><p>I know it's frustrating, but did you know about Kotiz before you started the original quest? No, you had to work it out or go to a spoiler site for information somebody else worked out. What's different now other than they are trying to address an issue that has been raised?</p><p> Let's actually give SOE some credit for acknowledging there was an issue and developing a solution. Now we have the fun of finding the solution - it's part of the game.</p>

[Bishojo]

<p>Obviosuly, why did I wanted to know about Kotiz when I started it? Also, there is no credit to find that we need Kotiz since as soon as you complete the prevoius step its says go and kill Kotiz in Sebilis. I know Kotiz long time ago.</p><p>My point was, if SOE did tell as straight to kill Kotiz (even gave all the names in the picked up books for the next parts /mythical part/, so included Kotiz), why they have to be so mystical, when they wanted to help people out from that obviously bad design of quest part?</p>

[Filroden]

<p>Maybe SOE have added an additional way to complete the quest and obtain the parts. I therefore can only assume that the finishing dialogue of the previous step has been amended to direct people to the new location. However, for those already past that stage, maybe the original way might also work. Until we actually test this we can only specuate. I seroiusly doubt SOE sat there and thought "let's really frustrate our paying customers by being deliberatly obtuse". It's far more likely they thought "let's make sure those templars have some more challenge and let them work out where to go; we'll put in this clue that they should be able to find".</p><p>Here's a few things I would try - go back and talk to NPCs already involved in the quest in case they give new hints; explore Sebilis some more in case there is an obvious alternative, talk to my fellow templars for other ideas...</p><p>It's a game; the quest is a challenge; challenge is fun; the challenge has changed; we get more fun.</p>

[Caethre]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">OOC.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">As a tiny-guild Templar player, I am pleased to see that the quest has been changed. I look forward to finding out how it will work now.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">In my opinion, the original implementation was nothing short of ridiculous for a heroic quest. I have no issue with it needing a strong group to fight down there. I have no issue with it being a hard mob to kill for that group. However, I have an issue it being both of those things *and* being a long spawn time, because that makes it almost impossible to get to do it with a pick-up group, which automatically rules out a lot of players. Worse, is that is as well as these three things, it *also* only gave an update to a single Templar per spawn, so Templars could not even pool resources, but would be forever at odds over it. And finally, worst of all, in addition to those four things, it was *also* contested. This is a charter for all of the most repulsive greed-induced obnoxious lord-of-the-flies style behaviour amongst the worst elements of the community.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I remember a combination like that ... Ragefire in EQ1. We all know what an absolute sh**fest that was, the single worst quest design that I have ever seen, not just in EQ1/2, but in any game. I saw friendships torn apart, guilds fall apart, and the most repulsively greedy and obnoxious individuals routinely turning up and causing massive serverwide arguments over that spawn. There is a good reason why SOE finally changed the Ragefire encounter to be one that was not such a massive cause of customer service issues, and to create that situation again.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">This is even without the extra issues of the mob also dropping loot for others.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">So why oh why repeat such a terrible mistake??</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I just hope that the new implementation is in an instance (make it as hard as you like for a group). Or alternatively, if it <u>must</u> be contested (which I admit I always detest), make it a *fast* respawn (eg 5-10 minutes), that drops no loot that non-epic questers would want.</span></p>

[Filroden]

Without spoiling, I can confirm the new (additional, I think) way to obtain the final part is always available to every Templar who is at that stage; in a location where there are many other epic requirements from other classes (so getting a group should be easier), and it's totally uncontested. Oh, and the clues from the previous stage will lead you there (so long as you haven't read the spoilers and insist the only place it could be is in the old location).

[Enoa]

<p>The new spot is ridicuously obvious and easy to get to. </p><p>I feel like the only fun and gratifying part of this quest line was just nerfed beyond what was necessary... how about put it on the the Mushroom king ... or in the praetorian guard barracks .. somewhere that still required at least some skill to get to successfully.   </p><p>Wtg whiners... quest is now doable by an complete imbecile.  </p><p>FFS the houloo hat questline in BS will take longer to do than this questline.  </p><p>Enoa</p>

[Kizee]

Yeah, they swung it too far in other direction....typical SoE.They just needed to up the spawn time for the mob to like 30 mins or something and call it fixed. The clicky update was a real bad move.

[Misbelief]

<p>I have to agree, it is a bit disappointing, if not a change in the respawn time then maybe  a named mob spawn when you clicked on the  box to get the final update.</p><p> Only response I got from fellow guildies that helped me was "That's it?"</p>

[LowfyrWildforge]

<p>   Wow.  Just.... wow.</p><p>   I understand the complaining about the final mob for the epic; he is a ridiculously long contested spawn, drops extremely desirable loot, and is on the front door to a raid zone.   It reminded me of a certain annoying camp in Sol B, in fact.  Yes, they should have changed it.  Kudos to SoE for doing so.</p><p>   But complaining that it's too easy now... shrug.   That strikes me as Monday Morning Quarterbacking, personally.</p>

[Kendricke]

<cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>   But complaining that it's too easy now... shrug.   That strikes me as Monday Morning Quarterbacking, personally.</p></blockquote><p>...or it could be an indication that Templars want their epic quest to feel...well, <i>epic</i>.  </p>

[Filroden]

<cite>Kendricke wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>LowfyrWildforge wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>   But complaining that it's too easy now... shrug.   That strikes me as Monday Morning Quarterbacking, personally.</p></blockquote><p>...or it could be an indication that Templars want their epic quest to feel...well, <i>epic</i>.  </p></blockquote><p>Unlike in fairy tales, there is no "just right". "SOE, this Templar epic is too epic" ... "SOE, this Templar epic is not epic enough".</p><p>Having raised an issue with the <b>final stage</b>,  of the quest...a quest whose middle step, deep in Chardok, is hardly a walk in the park...SOE did something about it. One stage in the entire quest line was changed. We still had two extremely difficult stages (Chardok and Sebilis farming) and one medium difficult stage (Chelsith). I've seen numerous complaints from groups who have wiped repeatedly in both Chardok and Sebilis. Remember that not everyone finds these zones, and the lvl 85^^^ mobs, easy to fight...they do find those fights difficult - hence the fabled reward for a group quest. Our <b>epic</b> comes from a much more difficult set of fights after completing the 4th stage of the quest series.</p>

[LowfyrWildforge]

<p>  You can do Chardok all the way to the end of the library and the throne room with one healer, but everyone has to be paying attention.   Two healers just gives you breathing room, but it's still challenging.</p><p>   Sebilis can be done with three people (a monk, myself, and a fury to dps, in my case), which is good since you're going to take reet faction hits if you kill the doubleup whipcrackers.  In other words, it's going to be harder to get people to volunteer to come with you.</p><p>   I thought those were decently challenging events.   Chelsith is a walk in the park compared to the way it USED to be.</p><p>    What annoyed me about the epic was all of the things that just seemed to be time-sinks.  You didn't need skill  or cleverness, you just needed to be willing to waste a bunch of hours.   Killing several hundred drakes was a time waster, although I enjoyed it because soloing is a refreshing change from raiding.   Picking flowers? Not so much.</p><p>   But... a contested rare mob with a four hour respawn?  At the best, that's a "wow, I'm sitting in a desolate part of the dungeon for a long time, this kind of sucks."  At worst, it was  "Great, I just had the monster snatched out from under me by some farmers."</p><p>    It was a good move to eliminate the frustration for players.   Yeah, the quest isn't really so "Epic".   But the Kotiz fix was the low hanging fruit in a not particularly well-made quest, so you should probably take it for what it was, an improvement.</p>

[Misbelief]

<p>I agree the Kotiz kill was a good move was just hoping to kill something when I clicked on the box.</p><p>Other then that I enjoyed the quest and wish everyone luck with theirs.</p>

[LowfyrWildforge]

<p>That's a pretty good point.</p><p>I really didn't enjoy the quest, personally.   Now, don't get me wrong, I <i>like</i> questing.   I loved the Thuuga quest.   I really enjoyed playing the factions off of each other in JW as I earned faction, often for killing the same things.  (Read:  One fish, two fish/ Dead Fish, Fish).</p><p>  But mostly, I spent more time trying to wrangle people into going, than anything. I was really glad I had formed an expedition down to deep Chardok a few weeks before the quest came out.    It was nice to already have the red key, etc. </p>

[dancemice]

<p>I finished the Templar epic, <b>by myself, with out guild help</b>. It took my roughly 40 to 50 hours to complete.</p><p>The main issues that took me the longest period, were due to the fact that i had to get roughly 6 pickup groups to complete 6 steps (Well, the salritian whipcrackers took 4 groups in thier own part)</p><p>A major difficulty i see in this epic, is that very, very few players are willing to go that far into sebiliis to help the templar. <u>Why should they, when thier epic mob lies in some zone <b>surrounded by solo mobs</b></u>. Why face the difficulty of multiple 86^^^ mobs when thier only danger is 1 85^^^ named mob.</p><p>If it wasn't for the sheer number of paladins i wouldn't have completed the whipcracker part at all.</p><p>However, Apart from the tediousness of the quest, I am satisfied with the fabled portion (just wish it had a little more int, like +10)</p><p>Getting my mythical part, with out any raid force will be a trial however. </p><p>-B-</p>