Why the change to Eagle's Talon already? [Archive]

TemerNeziel

02-12-2008, 08:59 AM

Why is a minimum range being enforced on ranged CAs that now effectively nerfs the Eagle's Talon ranger epic? The bonus that allows the bow to fire point blank (and may I say that it's the ONLY bow that does) was an interesting way of adding some more dps to rangers, but now we must screw around to find a mere...what? 3 metres to fire off all our attacks? Why are we being nerfed already when so many can't even get their group version due to a bugged Court of Innovation, or when we can't even do 100% of the bows potential damage due to bugged arrow mechanics? It's been a few months now, you must have found a fix for this by now eh? Or was this a cheap way of distracting rangers so that the problem would just disappear? If so, nice try but we still know what we need, and thats correct game mechanics! (People were actually asking if they should continue to use the Rigid Scale Bow over our MYTHICAL Epic!!! That should give you a clue if nothing else does)EDIT: I just took a look on the PVP boards, so this is getting nerfed due to PVP or something? Yet another item that takes a hit due to PVP.

Tatsou

02-12-2008, 09:08 AM

Hate to say it but I /agree with Caleeb on this. Stop Nerfing us and the equipment you give us.I have a few ranger friends that just recently betrayed to become assassins because of...wait for it....wait for it...........LOW DPS. Arrow mechanics is screwed up, Eagle talon now screwed. All I want to know is, what class am I actually playing here???

yohann koldheart

02-12-2008, 10:11 AM

the only reason to even do the quest was because of the point blank dps boost we get from this. now we will have to be forced to go back to our t7 bow that does more dps then our epic? thats insane...bad bad change soe

Dirty Jack Rackham

02-12-2008, 10:19 AM

<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>Test Update Notes: Monday, Feb 11th 2008 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=407164#top" target="_blank"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/styles/EQ2/eq2_default/images/common/icon_up.gif" border="0" alt="" width="16" height="15" /></a> ITEMS<ul><li>The Veil of Seeing Eye book will now go to the illusionist's overflow if their inventory is full. </li><li>Ranged combat arts will now enforce a minimum range when Eagle's Talon is equipped.</li></ul>If this was in answer to a PvP issue then make it affect PVP only, not PvE. Can we please get some answers to our concerns, other than we're fine? For what we bring to the table in groups and raids, we should be doing much better.Can we PLEASE get a Dev that has HALF a clue what RANGERS are about to start working WITH the ranger community? For the first time, I'm actually thinking of betraying BACK to Freeport.

Clowd

02-12-2008, 10:43 AM

Personally, I'm still working on my epic, but I'm bummed to see that you're taking away the close range firing capabilities of Eagle's Talon. Heck, the Mythical version of our bow gives us a BONUS for being in point-blank range, so why nerf it so that it has no minimum range for CAs? It doesn't make sense. We are enjoying the fact that this weapon can be used in melee ranges, it helps us a lot in terms of our DPS (Which is ALL we do).

Odawnus Haste

02-12-2008, 10:45 AM

<cite>Dirty Jack Rackham wrote:</cite><blockquote><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank"></a>Test Update Notes: Monday, Feb 11th 2008 <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=407164#top" target="_blank"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/styles/EQ2/eq2_default/images/common/icon_up.gif" border="0" alt="" width="16" height="15" /></a> ITEMS<ul><li>The Veil of Seeing Eye book will now go to the illusionist's overflow if their inventory is full. </li><li>Ranged combat arts will now enforce a minimum range when Eagle's Talon is equipped.</li></ul>If this was in answer to a PvP issue then make it affect PVP only, not PvE. Can we please get some answers to our concerns, other than we're fine? For what we bring to the table in groups and raids, we should be doing much better.Can we PLEASE get a Dev that has HALF a clue what RANGERS are about to start working WITH the ranger community? For the first time, I'm actually thinking of betraying BACK to Freeport.</blockquote>Sure push it all on pvp. That's right we don't even have mobs on our server, we like being nerfed again and again. /sarcasm off

yohann koldheart

02-12-2008, 11:18 AM

you know thats the reason of the nerf tho, check the pvp forums, every time somone looses to another class they run to the forums and make cry thread after cry thread that they need nerfed. and low and behold the devs bow to the cry babies and nerf them.im sick and tired of the nerfs, rangers have been getting nerfed in every update the last year. if this goes live i think its the end. ill play my sons pirates of the carribean online till conan comes out if i have to lol

Odawnus Haste

02-12-2008, 11:49 AM

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>you know thats the reason of the nerf tho, check the pvp forums, every time somone looses to another class they run to the forums and make cry thread after cry thread that they need nerfed. and low and behold the devs bow to the cry babies and nerf them.im sick and tired of the nerfs, rangers have been getting nerfed in every update the last year. if this goes live i think its the end. ill play my sons pirates of the carribean online till conan comes out if i have to lol</blockquote>There are like 3 people in that post complaining , the rest are rangers or other people backing us up. There arent even that many people with the group version of it on pvp. So there has to be another reason for it getting the nerf bat thrown at it. Instead of pointing fingers you should atleast to try to fight it together. Not like pvp rangers don't pve. So we got 2 headaches compare to their 1 everytime we get nerfed.

GrunEQ

02-12-2008, 12:10 PM

And when they brought out the PvP server they PROMISED it would not have an effect on PvE....yeah, right.

TheLopper

02-12-2008, 12:22 PM

I play on a PvP server, and I do think this is mainly a PvP update (the reason is so obvious as to why it would be a mainly PvP concerned thing). But, I also think it would be a little OP'd if Rangers could use ranged CA's pointblank. What would be the point of all your snares if you could just stand there and blow the mob up?It applies to PvP as well as PvE because it is a tad bit too much for either situation. Your draw back is that you have to stay ranged, a Brig's drawback is that he has to stay melee. I don't see why you should be able to "melee" with a bow, since they can AA for insane amounts of dmg.I'm not complaining...just trying to point out how the class was designed and why it was designed that way.

yohann koldheart

02-12-2008, 12:43 PM

the problem is we rangers are broken in more then 1 way.there are alot of raid content that you must be standing on top of the mob or you can wipe the raid. when we are on top of a mob our dps is cut to almost nothing. this bow would have put our dps whare is should be on the scale .there is a t7 bow that easier to get and puts out more dps then the group epic. the only real reason to get the epic was the point blank ranged arts ability.

jagermiester

02-12-2008, 12:45 PM

This is an absolute slap in the face to all the rangers who were happy just for a day over getting an useful item with minimal drawbacks. The ammo issues were for a short period put on the back burner and rangers world wide thought of the infinate possibilitys of unloading a PB snipers. Not even the fact that the group version will still get out parsed by a rigid scale bow but it gave non raiding rangers a honest to god 9 second delay nice damage spread high end bow that they all deserve. 48 hours later they take what was one of the best "features" of the bow and blast it back to the stone age. I mean seriously what the [Removed for Content]. This also fubars the other incredible damage boost as unless you are jousting in to time your auto attacks to get under 5m you will be [Removed for Content] out of some 20% damage bonus as most ranged CA i believe have a 2-5 meter hit box depending on the art... I cant really be sure on this as the servers are down and im just seething at this fact right now.

Windowlicker

02-12-2008, 12:54 PM

Hey, they're just getting an early start nerfing rangers.

Lolianna

02-12-2008, 01:03 PM

It's been my experience that snares (both ca's and fettering) last about 1/2 a second on mobs in the past few weeks. The very next hit seems to break it. Not only that, it is outright resisted about 40% of the time. I am not sure why this has came about, but it has. It is hard to fight mobs that run light speed at you because your snares and roots are resisted or broken so often. This bow's effect actually made the thought of that more fun, because, when your snares are resisted or broken and the mob is running at the ranger, his/her ca's became even more powerful; increasing in damage as the mob closes in. What a truly wonderful concept! One I had not anticipated. Another effect of point blank firing ca's was that it created a more friendly atmosphere for the ranger in raiding instances. Many, many times I've found myself losing dps because placement required I be under a mob; or, 3 feet behind it, tucked into a tight corner to avoid KB effects, etc. In VP the issue is just the opposite: hit ranges are so big rangers found themselves creeping further and further back until they were out of range of heals and buffs. Either way: rangers lost dps. Most rangers were rejoicing that we would no longer lose dps on these fights due to 'range' requisites. It was a classic fix to a classic ranger problem. Now, everyone and their brother can scream that it is a bad thing for PVP, but, the truth is: It was discovered 2 days ago!! It has not had time to even properly be tested in the environments I described above nor PVP. Posts in the PVP forums were begun based on pure speculation and, yet, here we are already being nerfed. Good Lord, why are devs so quick to the trigger to nerf rangers? All the population has to do is say the word and BAM! INC NERFS TO RANGERS. Give us back the bow and let LIVE servers properly test it. That, or change the way the proc is currently, to go along with the minimum distance nerf. You can't just leave it that way. Ohhh, cool idea! Let's give the rangers a 20% bonus on their CA's if they stand on top of a mob point blank. Woooops, now we don't want them to have the point blank ability, should we reverse the effect and give them 20% bonus for being further out? Of course you should !!UNFRICKENBELIEVABLE.

Intin

02-12-2008, 01:45 PM

Not just that, but I would like to formally request that ALL caster spells have a minimum range as well. I don't think it is in any way fair that a Wizard can stand right next to me and strike me with lightning but I am unable to stand right next to the same person and use my PRIMARY METHOD OF ATTACK.

TheLopper

02-12-2008, 02:18 PM

<cite>Intin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not just that, but I would like to formally request that ALL caster spells have a minimum range as well. I don't think it is in any way fair that a Wizard can stand right next to me and strike me with lightning but I am unable to stand right next to the same person and use my PRIMARY METHOD OF ATTACK. </blockquote>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.

Intin

02-12-2008, 02:20 PM

Then make a different version of the item for PVP if it is so overpowered. I thought everquest was about raiding and killing creatures.

yohann koldheart

02-12-2008, 03:06 PM

the loper i dont know whare you get off saying we have tons of snares and roots.we have 1 melee snare1 ranged snare that needs to be casted from the back1 snare from poisions1 ranged snarewe have "0" roots all the snares dispell all most as soon as the player takes damage. you are another example of people posting wrong information about a class they know nothing about.

TheLopper

02-12-2008, 03:42 PM

<cite>Adriana@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>the loper i dont know whare you get off saying we have tons of snares and roots.we have 1 melee snare1 ranged snare that needs to be casted from the back1 snare from poisions1 ranged snarewe have "0" roots all the snares dispell all most as soon as the player takes damage. you are another example of people posting wrong information about a class they know nothing about.</blockquote>So that's how Rangers can snare people for 70%+, because they don't have any! Yes, perfectly logical!!I'm going off of personal experience. And anyone can tell you than Rangers have an amazing amount of snare power.They don't go away at the first hit, either. I've battled many rangers, and the snares are no joke.

TheLopper

02-12-2008, 03:42 PM

<cite>Intin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then make a different version of the item for PVP if it is so overpowered. I thought everquest was about raiding and killing creatures.</blockquote>Agreed.Although it's not about raiding.

Morrias

02-12-2008, 04:22 PM

<cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Intin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then make a different version of the item for PVP if it is so overpowered. I thought everquest was about raiding and killing creatures.</blockquote>Agreed.Although it's not about raiding.</blockquote>They arent nerfing it because of PvP.. Although Everquest2 is all about raiding to me, its about different things to everyone, the LEAST amount is PvP, they arent gonna change anything for PvP..

EQ2Magroo

02-12-2008, 05:05 PM

<cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.</blockquote>Mit and avoidance has nothing to do with it. This is all about being able to hit a mob.I guess you've probably never played a Ranger, but if you had you would know that mobs have something which people call a "hit box". This is the actual size of the mob for attack calculations. It bears a passing resemblance to the mob's size but can vary. The problem with some mobs is their "hit box" is so big, sometimes way way bigger than the mob, that when you ask Rangers to step back 20m from this to fire their attacks, they end up in another room...and sometimes even a different zone !I guess the proper fix is to reduce the size of the mobs "hit box", but then you get the weird effect of being unable to hit the mob even though it looks like you are standing very close to the mob. An alternative fix would be of course to remove any minimum range requirements, and this would have absolutely no ill effects, except perhaps for PvP servers (and who in their right mind thinks EQ2 PvP is something to be proud about)It's a shame the devs chose to just implement this as a proc on the Ranger epic line. In my view it should have been applied to all AA and CA damage for all classes. i.e. there are no *minimum* range requirements for any spell/skill.But removing it the day after the item is found is just wrong.Most. Wasted. 2 Months. Ever.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

ChodeNode1

02-12-2008, 05:06 PM

<cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Intin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not just that, but I would like to formally request that ALL caster spells have a minimum range as well. I don't think it is in any way fair that a Wizard can stand right next to me and strike me with lightning but I am unable to stand right next to the same person and use my PRIMARY METHOD OF ATTACK. </blockquote>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.</blockquote>This is wrong. Even if rangers could solo by going toe to toe, we wouldn't. Even in group situations, we wouldn't (this bow excluding). The only times rangers would purposely be point blank would be raids and PvP.

ke'la

02-12-2008, 06:34 PM

<cite>Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.</blockquote>Mit and avoidance has nothing to do with it. This is all about being able to hit a mob.I guess you've probably never played a Ranger, but if you had you would know that mobs have something which people call a "hit box". This is the actual size of the mob for attack calculations. It bears a passing resemblance to the mob's size but can vary. The problem with some mobs is their "hit box" is so big, sometimes way way bigger than the mob, that when you ask Rangers to step back 20m from this to fire their attacks, they end up in another room...and sometimes even a different zone !I guess the proper fix is to reduce the size of the mobs "hit box", but then you get the weird effect of being unable to hit the mob even though it looks like you are standing very close to the mob. An alternative fix would be of course to remove any minimum range requirements, and this would have absolutely no ill effects, except perhaps for PvP servers (and who in their right mind thinks EQ2 PvP is something to be proud about)It's a shame the devs chose to just implement this as a proc on the Ranger epic line. In my view it should have been applied to all AA and CA damage for all classes. i.e. there are no *minimum* range requirements for any spell/skill.But removing it the day after the item is found is just wrong.Most. Wasted. 2 Months. Ever.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>another solution if the devs want to keep Min range is to have 2 hitboxes on oversized creatures. One for Ranged Attacks and one for Melee attacks, The Melee Box would be the aproximate outside dementions of the creatures so that they can hit it NP if it is standing on them, the other would be a box just around the "center mass" of the creature, that way the Ranged class could stand under say a Dragon that's belly is 10m over thier head and still fire into that belly, while the Melee people attack it's Legs. Ofcourse this many require fixing the Z-axis issues this game has, wich may make this solution to labor intensive to impliment. Though I also don't understand the point of having a weopon that gives 20% bonus to CA damage at 5m and not letting people accually use CAs that require that weopon(the Ranged CAs) at that range.Though it is possable that wanted you to only get the 20% bonus on your very Few Melee CAs, and if that is the case then this nerf makes sence from that standpoint. And if that is the case, wich it probly is, this nerf has nothing to do with PvP but has everything to do with the fact that the dev that made the weopon was unaware that the Min Range Requirment was removed from Ranged CAs, when the Dev put that bonus on the weopon, and this is the "fix" to that problem.Also if I remember right the Damage Rating on the Bow is like 30 points better then any of the other DPS Epic weopons, I think the reason for that increase is to counter the DPS decrease you get from the Arrow Issues you guys are more then aware of.

eyes007

02-12-2008, 06:46 PM

<cite>Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.</blockquote>Mit and avoidance has nothing to do with it. This is all about being able to hit a mob.I guess you've probably never played a Ranger, but if you had you would know that mobs have something which people call a "hit box". This is the actual size of the mob for attack calculations. It bears a passing resemblance to the mob's size but can vary. The problem with some mobs is their "hit box" is so big, sometimes way way bigger than the mob, that when you ask Rangers to step back 20m from this to fire their attacks, they end up in another room...and sometimes even a different zone !I guess the proper fix is to reduce the size of the mobs "hit box", but then you get the weird effect of being unable to hit the mob even though it looks like you are standing very close to the mob. An alternative fix would be of course to remove any minimum range requirements, and this would have absolutely no ill effects, except perhaps for PvP servers (and who in their right mind thinks EQ2 PvP is something to be proud about)It's a shame the devs chose to just implement this as a proc on the Ranger epic line. In my view it should have been applied to all AA and CA damage for all classes. i.e. there are no *minimum* range requirements for any spell/skill.But removing it the day after the item is found is just wrong.Most. Wasted. 2 Months. Ever.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>It has everything to do with it, and more. You can't ever use a caster as an example for who can fire ranged point blank or not because the argument is one sided and biased. Are you someone who actually plays the class? The inherent risk involved of "up close" combat borders on the insanity as a caster in pve, in pvp its an inevitability. A caster not only has to deal with interupts, resists, failures to land, misses, all the while being a class that takes a single hit to be killed. There is greater risk for a caster than rangers to be up close, frankly it's childish to even compare them with rangers.Why this change was necessary? Rangers are potentially the highest dps on a raid, and thats from afar. Assassins are the closest and potentially also the highest on the parse, and the're melee range dps. If rangers get the benefit of melee range, where does that leave assassins? Rogues are on the same level as well, but are expected to do less dps than preds, yet, dps wise they can be replaced with rangers and assassins if both do melee dps. Sure they have the utility of debuffs, but who will play a class that their only reason for being there is debuffs? I can assure you rogues don't just go to a raid to debuff only.What I say is the ability of melee ranged combat should never have been given in the first place, becuase it gave rangers the idea they deserved a melee ranged bow attack, when they don't. Crying about it aside, how is it a slap in the face when you KNOW your class is purely ranged attack?

Ranja

02-12-2008, 06:51 PM

<cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.</blockquote>Mit and avoidance has nothing to do with it. This is all about being able to hit a mob.I guess you've probably never played a Ranger, but if you had you would know that mobs have something which people call a "hit box". This is the actual size of the mob for attack calculations. It bears a passing resemblance to the mob's size but can vary. The problem with some mobs is their "hit box" is so big, sometimes way way bigger than the mob, that when you ask Rangers to step back 20m from this to fire their attacks, they end up in another room...and sometimes even a different zone !I guess the proper fix is to reduce the size of the mobs "hit box", but then you get the weird effect of being unable to hit the mob even though it looks like you are standing very close to the mob. An alternative fix would be of course to remove any minimum range requirements, and this would have absolutely no ill effects, except perhaps for PvP servers (and who in their right mind thinks EQ2 PvP is something to be proud about)It's a shame the devs chose to just implement this as a proc on the Ranger epic line. In my view it should have been applied to all AA and CA damage for all classes. i.e. there are no *minimum* range requirements for any spell/skill.But removing it the day after the item is found is just wrong.Most. Wasted. 2 Months. Ever.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>It has everything to do with it, and more. You can't ever use a caster as an example for who can fire ranged point blank or not because the argument is one sided and biased. Are you someone who actually plays the class? The inherent risk involved of "up close" combat borders on the insanity as a caster in pve, in pvp its an inevitability. A caster not only has to deal with interupts, resists, failures to land, misses, all the while being a class that takes a single hit to be killed. There is greater risk for a caster than rangers to be up close, frankly it's childish to even compare them with rangers.Why this change was necessary? Rangers are potentially the highest dps on a raid, and thats from afar. Assassins are the closest and potentially also the highest on the parse, and the're melee range dps. If rangers get the benefit of melee range, where does that leave assassins? Rogues are on the same level as well, but are expected to do less dps than preds, yet, dps wise they can be replaced with rangers and assassins if both do melee dps. Sure they have the utility of debuffs, but who will play a class that their only reason for being there is debuffs? I can assure you rogues don't just go to a raid to debuff only.What I say is the ability of melee ranged combat should never have been given in the first place, becuase it gave rangers the idea they deserved a melee ranged bow attack, when they don't. Crying about it aside, how is it a slap in the face when you KNOW your class is purely ranged attack?</blockquote>I want any dev. Anyone? To step in here and explain the nerf. What the hell were you thinking designing a weapon that took months (was even pushed back) and then change it within 2 days. I actually want any dev to step in here and tell me they understand the ranger class and the problems affecting that class. I want any dev to understand that:A T7 bow out damages our T8 Epic!!Please step in here and tell me you understand that then tell me in the same breath that it is working as intended. It is incompetence and favoritism that perpetuates these problems. Please get a dev that understands our class (and that does not play an assassin) to help us. The assassin epic is insane. It is the best epic of all of them and it completely crushes the ranger epic. Oh wait, the item guy plays an assassin. /sigh

eyes007

02-12-2008, 06:56 PM

I will say however, it should be something else that increase dps, not maintains dps at melee ranged, my issue is only about the range, not increased dps, if ranger dps is affected by the weapon it should be adjusted. Ranged dps at melee range is just not the answer.

Ranja

02-12-2008, 07:04 PM

<cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will say however, it should be something else that increase dps, not maintains dps at melee ranged, my issue is only about the range, not increased dps, if ranger dps is affected by the weapon it should be adjusted. Ranged dps at melee range is just not the answer.</blockquote>Why are you commenting? And what do you care? Why do you care how we get our DPS? We help your raid we help your group. Why are you so invested in how rangers get their DPS? You play on PvP I bet, don't ya?

eyes007

02-12-2008, 07:17 PM

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will say however, it should be something else that increase dps, not maintains dps at melee ranged, my issue is only about the range, not increased dps, if ranger dps is affected by the weapon it should be adjusted. Ranged dps at melee range is just not the answer.</blockquote>Why are you commenting? And what do you care? Why do you care how we get our DPS? We help your raid we help your group. Why are you so invested in how rangers get their DPS? You play on PvP I bet, don't ya?</blockquote>Alright fine, rangers can go to hell <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And no I don't

Ranja

02-12-2008, 07:53 PM

<cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will say however, it should be something else that increase dps, not maintains dps at melee ranged, my issue is only about the range, not increased dps, if ranger dps is affected by the weapon it should be adjusted. Ranged dps at melee range is just not the answer.</blockquote>Why are you commenting? And what do you care? Why do you care how we get our DPS? We help your raid we help your group. Why are you so invested in how rangers get their DPS? You play on PvP I bet, don't ya?</blockquote>Alright fine, rangers can go to hell <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> And no I don't</blockquote>LOL. Sorry that was a bit testy. You can imagine though rangers are on pins and needles lately. It seems like anytime random poster X complains about rangers - we get nerfed.

kartikeya

02-12-2008, 08:29 PM

<img src="http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/kartikeya/cancelled.jpg" alt="" width="602" height="252" border="0" />I clicked yes. Next month when my account fee comes due, I'm going to have to dig out my credit card, look at it, and decide if it's worth giving SOE any more money.As an aside? Just for kicks, I've been playing a ranger class in another MMO for the past few days, as part of their free trial. I was shocked when two things became apparent: one, there IS no minimum range for bows. You are significantly more vulnerable when you are trying to fire an arrow at point blank range, but you can still do it. I think this is a perfect solution that makes perfect sense.Two? There ARE NO ARROWS in the game. None. I can fire all day long and I'm not paying a dime to do so, just like a fighter can swing their swords without paying and a wizard can fire their spells without paying.Those two features alone have convinced me to buy this other game.

TheLopper

02-12-2008, 08:39 PM

<cite>Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Casters have low hp, low avoidance, and very low mit. They only have one root. Rangers have a moderate amount of mit, moderate hp, and high-ish avoidance. You also have tons of snares/roots. So why should rangers be able to do what a wizard can do? Wizards also can't really auto-attack. You're going to have to use strategy to win fights. I'm terribly sorry. BTW, I assume you're talking about PvP.In raiding, yes, rangers have issues, I'm not debating that. I'm just saying, in all other situations than raiding, a NO MINIMUM RANGE bow would be extremely OP'd.</blockquote>Mit and avoidance has nothing to do with it. This is all about being able to hit a mob.I guess you've probably never played a Ranger, but if you had you would know that mobs have something which people call a "hit box". This is the actual size of the mob for attack calculations. It bears a passing resemblance to the mob's size but can vary. The problem with some mobs is their "hit box" is so big, sometimes way way bigger than the mob, that when you ask Rangers to step back 20m from this to fire their attacks, they end up in another room...and sometimes even a different zone !I guess the proper fix is to reduce the size of the mobs "hit box", but then you get the weird effect of being unable to hit the mob even though it looks like you are standing very close to the mob. An alternative fix would be of course to remove any minimum range requirements, and this would have absolutely no ill effects, except perhaps for PvP servers (and who in their right mind thinks EQ2 PvP is something to be proud about)It's a shame the devs chose to just implement this as a proc on the Ranger epic line. In my view it should have been applied to all AA and CA damage for all classes. i.e. there are no *minimum* range requirements for any spell/skill.But removing it the day after the item is found is just wrong.Most. Wasted. 2 Months. Ever.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Read the original context of my post, I was addressing his concerns about Wizards being able to nuke at close range. It had nothing to do with PvE, thanks.I know what a hit box is, I raided with a Necro. And believe it or not, you still have to know what one is to find max range when jousting.It would be OP'd on a PvE server, as well as PvP servers. Unless you'd like to give Brig's 30m+ range to all their CA's...? Your drawback is the fact that you must be ranged. There is no working around that.The hit box issue does need to be addressed, however. I remember my first time battling Wuoshi and being able to hit him from what seemed like miles <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

EQ2Magroo

02-12-2008, 09:24 PM

<cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Read the original context of my post, I was addressing his concerns about Wizards being able to nuke at close range. It had nothing to do with PvE, thanks.I know what a hit box is, I raided with a Necro. And believe it or not, you still have to know what one is to find max range when jousting.It would be OP'd on a PvE server, as well as PvP servers. Unless you'd like to give Brig's 30m+ range to all their CA's...? Your drawback is the fact that you must be ranged. There is no working around that.The hit box issue does need to be addressed, however. I remember my first time battling Wuoshi and being able to hit him from what seemed like miles <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>If it's not to do with PvE then I don't care one jot. This change effects me on PvE and you're saying it has nothing to do with PvE ? If you're a PvP player, then please, take your nerfs away from our game. We were here first thankyou very much and we don't need them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I don't get this argument that it would be "overpowering" on PvE. What does that mean ? What is the impact to you of me being "overpowered" ? Surely everyone wants Rangers to be as powerful as possible. Our entire reason for being is DPS nothing else. Why wouldn't you want Rangers to be amazing DPS ? You get to kill mobs easier don't you ? Or is it just plain old jealousy ?Before anyone tries to say it would overpower us in solo play, give me a break. There isn't a single non-epic mob in game that isn't soloable by pretty much any class already. OK, sorry Templars <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Once again, Rangers have no problem being Ranged only. We'd love for all our melee skills to be taken away and to be forced to stand 20m away from a mob. However, it seems we can't do that, as 20m from mob = 50m away from everyone else due to crazy hit box sice. We can either stand in range and do hardly any damage, or out of range and do the damage, but die from the first AoE. In addition there seems to be one faction of whiners (casters) who say none of this is fair anyway as we have chain armor and DPS needs to be nerfed, and then the other faction of whiners who say our DPS is too high (assassins/brigands) and guess what, we need to be nerfed. We can't win.All we're asking from the devs is to deliver on their promises. Make us a ranged class, give us the equipment to do that, and make sure the game mechanics do not penalise us for playing as the class is intended.I don't get it, but the only reason I can think of for all these people keep asking for Ranger nerfs is their jealousy because Aragorn gets all the hot chicks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

eyes007

02-12-2008, 10:31 PM

<cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ranja wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fantomex@Everfrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>I will say however, it should be something else that increase dps, not maintains dps at melee ranged, my issue is only about the range, not increased dps, if ranger dps is affected by the weapon it should be adjusted. Ranged dps at melee range is just not the answer.</blockquote>Why are you commenting? And what do you care? Why do you care how we get our DPS? We help your raid we help your group. Why are you so invested in how rangers get their DPS? You play on PvP I bet, don't ya?</blockquote>Alright fine, rangers can go to hell <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"> And no I don't</blockquote>LOL. Sorry that was a bit testy. You can imagine though rangers are on pins and needles lately. It seems like anytime random poster X complains about rangers - we get nerfed.</blockquote>Hehe no offense taken at all Ranja, my problem was taking away the "up close" ranged ability because it isn't on par with rangers with what they do, and it unbalances melee classes by making them effectively useless. If rangers can go up close and maintain dps, its akin to melee classes going to ranged and maintaining their dps, which is a ludicrous idea. No melee class currently has this ability, so therefore rangers should never have been given a melee range proc.I do feel however, that in the scheme of things, if rangers are unhappy with the dps of their new weapon and is inferior to what they currently lose, Sony needs ot find a better solution. If this game is all about progression, this weapon should be at least slightly better than whats currently in game, no questions (maybe not T8 fabled but better than t7 by far).As a brigand, the community is kinda "bleau" about our epic too, not nearly as great as portrayed but its an option at least. I'm all for balance and I'll never yell for nerfs, because at the end of the day, no one likes nerfs, try as you might, it arrives at your door sooner than you would like, and it's better offering alternatives than crying about how overpowered someone is.

TheLopper

02-13-2008, 02:44 AM

<cite>Adeyia@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Read the original context of my post, I was addressing his concerns about Wizards being able to nuke at close range. It had nothing to do with PvE, thanks.I know what a hit box is, I raided with a Necro. And believe it or not, you still have to know what one is to find max range when jousting.It would be OP'd on a PvE server, as well as PvP servers. Unless you'd like to give Brig's 30m+ range to all their CA's...? Your drawback is the fact that you must be ranged. There is no working around that.The hit box issue does need to be addressed, however. I remember my first time battling Wuoshi and being able to hit him from what seemed like miles <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>If it's not to do with PvE then I don't care one jot. This change effects me on PvE and you're saying it has nothing to do with PvE ? If you're a PvP player, then please, take your nerfs away from our game. We were here first thankyou very much and we don't need them <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />I don't get this argument that it would be "overpowering" on PvE. What does that mean ? What is the impact to you of me being "overpowered" ? Surely everyone wants Rangers to be as powerful as possible. Our entire reason for being is DPS nothing else. Why wouldn't you want Rangers to be amazing DPS ? You get to kill mobs easier don't you ? Or is it just plain old jealousy ?Before anyone tries to say it would overpower us in solo play, give me a break. There isn't a single non-epic mob in game that isn't soloable by pretty much any class already. OK, sorry Templars <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Once again, Rangers have no problem being Ranged only. We'd love for all our melee skills to be taken away and to be forced to stand 20m away from a mob. However, it seems we can't do that, as 20m from mob = 50m away from everyone else due to crazy hit box sice. We can either stand in range and do hardly any damage, or out of range and do the damage, but die from the first AoE. In addition there seems to be one faction of whiners (casters) who say none of this is fair anyway as we have chain armor and DPS needs to be nerfed, and then the other faction of whiners who say our DPS is too high (assassins/brigands) and guess what, we need to be nerfed. We can't win.All we're asking from the devs is to deliver on their promises. Make us a ranged class, give us the equipment to do that, and make sure the game mechanics do not penalise us for playing as the class is intended.I don't get it, but the only reason I can think of for all these people keep asking for Ranger nerfs is their jealousy because Aragorn gets all the hot chicks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Good, then stop responding to something that wasn't addressed toward you!!! And stop taking everything I say out of context, it's highly annoying, and rude. I was responding to someone who make a PVP RELATED COMMENT, not your [Removed for Content].LOL!!!! That is the weakest argument for being OP'd I've ever seen. Ever. Epic failure.Yes, and let's give Druids a 20k nuke with a one second cast time, and 3 second recast. Because who cares if it makes them OP'd? Are you all just jealous?Wow.Stop twisting my posts, and stop respoding to ones not addressed to you altogether, sionce you don't seem to be able to understand how to properly interpret something which isn't directly related to you.

Lolianna

02-13-2008, 03:05 AM

Fantomx, you, sir, are ridiculous. Ever heard of 'reach'? Yeah, it gives melee the option of standing at range and using their melee ca's. And I don't suppose any of these melee classes you keep saying do not have the capability of range, as rangers do, had their ranged slots taken away? MOST scouts I know, including troubs and dirges carry RSB in that slot and use it during many fights. AS A MATTER OF FACT there are dirges in the world that can outparse rangers using the RSB; because ALL THE FREAKING MELEE BUFFS WORK ON THEM AND NOT ON RANGERS.Gawd, I have had enough of this idiocy. Shard what is the name of that game you are trying out? Time to find something that doesn't make my stomach hurt every time I log in.

Lolianna

02-13-2008, 11:38 AM

So, the assassin's have a 15% chance to have their primary weapon strike multiple times. Gratz on triple shot assassins.. heck it doesn't even say it stops at triple shot; it just says multiple times. You can't honestly sit there and tell me that a triple autoattack (and a 15% chance of it all times, not just 15% to proc for 12 secs.. at ALL times!) is not over-powering. In my eyes that is way, way more overpowering than a mere point blank bow. Can't wait to see pvp forums light up over the news of triple attacks.

TheLopper

02-13-2008, 11:44 AM

<cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fantomx, you, sir, are ridiculous. Ever heard of 'reach'? Yeah, it gives melee the option of standing at range and using their melee ca's. And I don't suppose any of these melee classes you keep saying do not have the capability of range, as rangers do, had their ranged slots taken away? MOST scouts I know, including troubs and dirges carry RSB in that slot and use it during many fights. AS A MATTER OF FACT there are dirges in the world that can outparse rangers using the RSB; because ALL THE FREAKING MELEE BUFFS WORK ON THEM AND NOT ON RANGERS.Gawd, I have had enough of this idiocy. Shard what is the name of that game you are trying out? Time to find something that doesn't make my stomach hurt every time I log in. </blockquote>That is a Swashbuckler only AA. And we're not debating over the OP'd-ness of Swashies, we all know they are (watch a Swash come in here and say they're not).We're talking about Rangers being able to fire off 4k+ shots at PB range. You can AA at PB range for now with that wep, and I think that's fair enough...even neat, but being able to use ranged CA's at PB range would be just too much.Like someone in this thread suggested, there should be a second hitbox implemented which allows rangers to be within range of the raid healers, yet still be able to shoot at the mob. I realize that it's ridiculous how large the hitboxes are in VP and other zones, but until SOE fixes that...PB ranged CA's are just not the answer.I agree that you guys are gimped in such situations. You guys don't seem to understand that I'm on your side, but I don't like to see them putting in lame little "fixes" that ruin other game mechanics. It's like putting band-aids over gaping wounds.I sincerely hope they implement some sort of multiple-hitbox system, although that would take years for them to do. Hopefully they come up with some better fix for you guys, it truly saddens me to see awesome class concepts ruined (Rangers are the only ones who primarily use bows...how cool is that!?!?!).GL guys.

Odawnus Haste

02-13-2008, 12:15 PM

<cite>TheLopper wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree that you guys are gimped in such situations. You guys don't seem to understand that I'm on your side, but I don't like to see them putting in lame little "fixes" that ruin other game mechanics. It's like putting band-aids over gaping wounds.</blockquote>We aren't gimped in just those situations, we have been gimped this whole expansion. Expansion has been out 3 months and ranger are still stuck in T7. With all the nerfs that happen every patch/hotfix we will be back in T1 by the time they decide to fix ammo. We need band-aids, scotch tape, or whatever means they can find to put our class back in the game and off injured reserve.

Lolianna

02-13-2008, 01:01 PM

Wait, wait, I was informed I am correct in my assumption that 'multiple strikes' could mean more than a triple attack. Assassins get an innate 15% chance to land an auto attack 3-5 times? You do realize that is 5 3k hits on ONE strike, right? That is only if there aren't some crits in there somewhere too. And you are nerfing ours? I don't know if I should laugh or cry.

NiteWolfe

02-13-2008, 01:02 PM

<cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, the assassin's have a 15% chance to have their primary weapon strike multiple times. Gratz on triple shot assassins.. heck it doesn't even say it stops at triple shot; it just says multiple times. You can't honestly sit there and tell me that a triple autoattack (and a 15% chance of it all times, not just 15% to proc for 12 secs.. at ALL times!) is not over-powering. In my eyes that is way, way more overpowering than a mere point blank bow. Can't wait to see pvp forums light up over the news of triple attacks. </blockquote> Give ya 3 guesses as to why they got such a powerful ability on there weapon. Has to do with a person who plays a assassin.

Gungo

02-13-2008, 02:54 PM

You do realize that double atk effects both the primary and secondary while the 15% triple auto atk thing is ONLY primary. Comparing an extra 20% to ALL autoatk damage to a 15% primary only triple atk the 20% auto atk increase is better. Although since it is a level 80 bow all the 20% really does is negate the penalty from using an 80 bow with 67 arrows. Really i added it up the other day for our guild ranger and if they just added in pure level 80 arrows he would see a 17% increase from the rigid scale bow and Deathtoll ammo he uses. So what thats aproximately a 900-1k increase in dps. Which would put most ranger in line with assassins and now wizards with thier epic. The ranger epic is not bad comapred to the assassin epic, but the fact it is an 80 bow is what makes it a situational and low upgrade. Remove the 60% arrow conservation ability and replace it with a summon lvl 77 (or better yet 80 arrow ability) and that bow would eb phenomial. Although this is only a quick bandaid for a much bigger issue. BASICALLY HERE IS THE DEAL. I challenge aerillik to test how broken arrows are himself. Get himself and anther dev to create 2 rangers same gear same type etc. Just dev spawn them both to 80. Give 1 ranger a rigid scale bowGive the other dev the new mythicalgive them both 1000 player crafted arrowsPut them both at max range ~35-40m. Put on auto atk (no combat arts) for an hour or so until all 1k arrows are depleted. And see how bad a level 80 bow drops the parse. I wouldnt be surprised with this test showing the mythical being outparsed by the rigid scale bow. (at max range)

Lolianna

02-13-2008, 03:20 PM

You are incorrect sir. We get a 20% to auto attack WHEN WE ARE 5m or LESS from the mob. You would have been correct prior to this nerf, yes, it may have then came out even. But, with this nerf, if we stand within the 5m or less parameters that it takes to kick in the 20% bonus, our ranged CA's will no longer be useable. So, actually, not being able to use ranged CA's within that radius negates the 20% we get for autoattack. No ranger is going to get within 5 meters and stand there and rely on auto attack + 20% bonus for their dps. It would be silly. The option is to joust 2-3 meters in between every autoattack so you can cast your ca's and get your bonus , which is going to be terribly difficult. Rangers are going to look like bunnies hopping in and out to get the full 20% bonus you speak of. 2 seconds in; 2 seconds out and we do the hoookey pokey and turn ourselves about! The further we stand from the mob, the less of a bonus we receive. It's ironic that we actually wind up being punished by our epics for standing at range distance. Another option is to reverse it's effects. Allow us the full 20% bonus when we are at our normal ranged distance and reduce it the closer we get to the mob. This, however, does not fix our hit box problems nor does it make up for the lost dps we have in closed quarter fights. The bow in it's original form took care of this for us. However, I agree. IF they return it to it's original form and we could once again receive the full 20% bonus for auto attacks, without the penalty of losing our ca attacks at the same time, then our weapons would be about on par. Except for the little matter of that 30% to stealth attacks you got vs. our free ammo. ROFL.

Gungo

02-13-2008, 03:34 PM

<cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are incorrect sir. We get a 20% to auto attack WHEN WE ARE 5m or LESS from the mob. You would have been correct prior to this nerf, yes, it may have then came out even. But, with this nerf, if we stand within the 5m or less parameters that it takes to kick in the 20% bonus, our ranged CA's will no longer be useable. So, actually, not being able to use ranged CA's within that radius negates the 20% we get for autoattack. No ranger is going to get within 5 meters and stand there and rely on auto attack + 20% bonus for their dps. It would be silly. The option is to joust 2-3 meters in between every autoattack so you can cast your ca's and get your bonus , which is going to be terribly difficult. Rangers are going to look like bunnies hopping in and out to get the full 20% bonus you speak of. 2 seconds in; 2 seconds out and we do the hoookey pokey and turn ourselves about! The further we stand from the mob, the less of a bonus we receive. It's ironic that we actually wind up being punished by our epics for standing at range distance. Another option is to reverse it's effects. Allow us the full 20% bonus when we are at our normal ranged distance and reduce it the closer we get to the mob. This, however, does not fix our hit box problems nor does it make up for the lost dps we have in closed quarter fights. The bow in it's original form took care of this for us. However, I agree. IF they return it to it's original form and we could once again receive the full 20% bonus for auto attacks, without the penalty of losing our ca attacks at the same time, then our weapons would be about on par. Except for the little matter of that 30% to stealth attacks you got vs. our free ammo. ROFL. </blockquote>I am sorry your not a good ranger, becuase any good ranger CURRENTLY DOES that right now. Nothing changed, NOTHING. It's the same as the RSB. It has been the same for the last 5 tiers. A good ranger will use both melee and ranged combat arts when he is trying to max his dps. Your pointing out and crying about something EVERYONE already knows and really have no point.

Ranja

02-13-2008, 03:45 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>You are incorrect sir. We get a 20% to auto attack WHEN WE ARE 5m or LESS from the mob. You would have been correct prior to this nerf, yes, it may have then came out even. But, with this nerf, if we stand within the 5m or less parameters that it takes to kick in the 20% bonus, our ranged CA's will no longer be useable. So, actually, not being able to use ranged CA's within that radius negates the 20% we get for autoattack. No ranger is going to get within 5 meters and stand there and rely on auto attack + 20% bonus for their dps. It would be silly. The option is to joust 2-3 meters in between every autoattack so you can cast your ca's and get your bonus , which is going to be terribly difficult. Rangers are going to look like bunnies hopping in and out to get the full 20% bonus you speak of. 2 seconds in; 2 seconds out and we do the hoookey pokey and turn ourselves about! The further we stand from the mob, the less of a bonus we receive. It's ironic that we actually wind up being punished by our epics for standing at range distance. Another option is to reverse it's effects. Allow us the full 20% bonus when we are at our normal ranged distance and reduce it the closer we get to the mob. This, however, does not fix our hit box problems nor does it make up for the lost dps we have in closed quarter fights. The bow in it's original form took care of this for us. However, I agree. IF they return it to it's original form and we could once again receive the full 20% bonus for auto attacks, without the penalty of losing our ca attacks at the same time, then our weapons would be about on par. Except for the little matter of that 30% to stealth attacks you got vs. our free ammo. ROFL. </blockquote>I am sorry your not a good ranger, becuase any good ranger CURRENTLY DOES that right now. Nothing changed, NOTHING. It's the same as the RSB. It has been the same for the last 5 tiers. A good ranger will use both melee and ranged combat arts when he is trying to max his dps. Your pointing out and crying about something EVERYONE already knows and really have no point. </blockquote>Sorry you are misinformed. A good ranger will stand in the sweet spot. This allows us to use our Melee CAs and ranged CAs and Auto. Now in order to get this bonus we need to move out of the sweet spot (closer to the mob) and our ranged CAs dont work. Why would we stand somewhere where we cannot use ranged CAs. We would not! If you are ruinning in and out all the time you are wasting DPS. A good ranger will never move from the sweet spot unless it is to use coverage which sucks anyways. So basically this is a useless affect for us b/.c it [Removed for Content] our DPS severely by not letting us use our ranged CAs.

Gungo

02-13-2008, 04:04 PM

melee combat arts have a 5m max rangebow auto atk has a 2-5m minimum range depending on bowRange combat arts have 5m min rangeepic bow effect 5m rangewhat am i missing here?

Ranja

02-13-2008, 05:24 PM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote>melee combat arts have a 5m max rangebow auto atk has a 2-5m minimum range depending on bowRange combat arts have 5m min rangeepic bow effect 5m or less rangewhat am i missing here?</blockquote>Nothing besides the fact that we have to have Treyloth like positioning now in every fight we have. 1m off and oops not ranged CAs. Oh, and no bonus either. Wow this will be fun micropositioning for our DPS.

TemerNeziel

02-13-2008, 09:17 PM

I just want to add, why do we have to microposition for our max dps? Now even more so than before. Granted, it's a interesting idea, but when you come up against something that has a 35m+ hit box radius it loses some of that niche and charm. These are our epic weapons, effectively 2 weapons in the entire game that give us a break and let us do something a little different to dps. Please rethink this change Aeralik, it was fine the way it was before.

Sydares

02-14-2008, 01:48 AM

<cite>TemerNeziel wrote:</cite><blockquote>it was fine the way it was before.</blockquote>I think that's what's so insulting and annoying about this nerf. We were given no justification. Just 'because'.

Lolianna

02-14-2008, 05:39 AM

What you are missing, Gungo, is how it plays out in real-time playing. It looks great to jot those numbers down on paper, but, here's how it will work:Fight begins and Ranger X moves to find that perfect 5m position where both his 20% bonus will kick in and he can use his ranged ca's. Ranger X watches his hotbars closely as he inches up toward the mob that has just been pulled. He is focused on finding that perfect spot before he begins shooting ca's. He checks his ca's to see if the bonus is applying. Sadly, they are not; ranger x must inch up another step. Re-checking his abilities he see's that he is finally at the 5m mark; where both his ranged ca's and the 20% bonus applies. Happily he begins plucking his ca's. But wait?! [Removed for Content] just happened to his bonus?Looking up, Ranger X finds that the MT has taken a step backwards and so has the mob. Grumbling, he hops forward a step. Yeah, there he has his bonus again! Nice! Ranger X has time to get a ranged CA off and an auto attack before he notices that his ca's just dropped off. Looking up, he notices the tank has taken a step forward. Moaning, the ranger takes one step back and rechecks his hotbars. Okies, we have the bonus and ranged ca's up again, yay! Before he can even begin a CA the mob is peeled and the ranger suddenly looses his bonus again. The tank pulls it back, but, before Ranger X can find that perfect 5m spot again, it dies. The parse is shown and Ranger X is not even on there. Raid leader shoots him a tell and says [Removed for Content] happened? Ranger X says sorry boss, I was busy trying to hop in and out and keep both my ranged ca's and my bonus up. Raid leader says, well stop doing that, you lost a lot of dps! Ranger X shakes his head sadly and replies, yes, boss. Ranger X goes back to the old, traditional way of shooting arrows and laments over the loss of his 20% bonus.. but what can he do? He lost too much dps fooling around playing Hokey Pokey. That's how it's really going to play out. Change it back. It worked in it's original form.

Gungo

02-14-2008, 11:34 AM

actually i was wrong its not just 5m min range on ranged combat arts its 2-5m depending on bow on most ranged combat arts.So the whole one step forward one step back is a bit of an exhaggeration. In order to use all melee and ranged combat arts you have basically 2-5m depending on bow. I still do not see where all the tears are coming from considering you only loose the 0-2m range. I still do not see the change from the current RSB setup. The positioning is exactly like it is on line no hookey pokey, no set forward or back. You always needed to be within 5m for melee combat arts, you always needed to stand at min-5m bow range. Nothing changed. Your complaining about 0-2m range. Which was never an issue before. My question still remains how is this any different then it has ever been?

Ranja

02-14-2008, 01:13 PM

<cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>What you are missing, Gungo, is how it plays out in real-time playing. It looks great to jot those numbers down on paper, but, here's how it will work:Fight begins and Ranger X moves to find that perfect 5m position where both his 20% bonus will kick in and he can use his ranged ca's. Ranger X watches his hotbars closely as he inches up toward the mob that has just been pulled. He is focused on finding that perfect spot before he begins shooting ca's. He checks his ca's to see if the bonus is applying. Sadly, they are not; ranger x must inch up another step. Re-checking his abilities he see's that he is finally at the 5m mark; where both his ranged ca's and the 20% bonus applies. Happily he begins plucking his ca's. But wait?! [Removed for Content] just happened to his bonus?Looking up, Ranger X finds that the MT has taken a step backwards and so has the mob. Grumbling, he hops forward a step. Yeah, there he has his bonus again! Nice! Ranger X has time to get a ranged CA off and an auto attack before he notices that his ca's just dropped off. Looking up, he notices the tank has taken a step forward. Moaning, the ranger takes one step back and rechecks his hotbars. Okies, we have the bonus and ranged ca's up again, yay! Before he can even begin a CA the mob is peeled and the ranger suddenly looses his bonus again. The tank pulls it back, but, before Ranger X can find that perfect 5m spot again, it dies. The parse is shown and Ranger X is not even on there. Raid leader shoots him a tell and says [Removed for Content] happened? Ranger X says sorry boss, I was busy trying to hop in and out and keep both my ranged ca's and my bonus up. Raid leader says, well stop doing that, you lost a lot of dps! Ranger X shakes his head sadly and replies, yes, boss. Ranger X goes back to the old, traditional way of shooting arrows and laments over the loss of his 20% bonus.. but what can he do? He lost too much dps fooling around playing Hokey Pokey. That's how it's really going to play out. Change it back. It worked in it's original form. </blockquote>or oops your Marr cloak proc'd...god i hate that enlarge <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Lolianna

02-14-2008, 01:36 PM

LOL! You were correct in your first post Gungo; ranged ca's did have a 5m minimum range. You are also correct on your second post; it is now a minimum of 2m! I had to go check that one before I responded. Whomever was responsible for that 'fix' thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!That's what I get for not reading the last couple day's hot fixes! That will save so much agony on positioning. /Hugs and makes up with Gungo. Happy Valentine's Day all!

Aeralik

02-14-2008, 02:14 PM

<cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! You were correct in your first post Gungo; ranged ca's did have a 5m minimum range. You are also correct on your second post; it is now a minimum of 2m! I had to go check that one before I responded. Whomever was responsible for that 'fix' thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!That's what I get for not reading the last couple day's hot fixes! That will save so much agony on positioning. /Hugs and makes up with Gungo. Happy Valentine's Day all!</blockquote>You did read it but you didnt look at the actual minimum range I gave the spells <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> They just weren't meant to be point blank like it was but I didnt add anything more than what Rigid Scale bow was using which was 2m. So you still get the <5m bonus on auto attack damage but you also have to be at a small distance from the mob as well.

TemerNeziel

02-14-2008, 02:19 PM

Lolianna

02-14-2008, 02:31 PM

And fix Saphrina's quest so we can get the weapon in our hands... pretty please?EDIT: oh, oops, just read that was ninja'd in w/o hotfix notes too! Off to finish Raincaller Quest. You guys are on a roll today. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Odawnus Haste

02-14-2008, 02:57 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! You were correct in your first post Gungo; ranged ca's did have a 5m minimum range. You are also correct on your second post; it is now a minimum of 2m! I had to go check that one before I responded. Whomever was responsible for that 'fix' thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!That's what I get for not reading the last couple day's hot fixes! That will save so much agony on positioning. /Hugs and makes up with Gungo. Happy Valentine's Day all!</blockquote>You did read it but you didnt look at the actual minimum range I gave the spells <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> They just weren't meant to be point blank like it was but I didnt add anything more than what Rigid Scale bow was using which was 2m. So you still get the <5m bonus on auto attack damage but you also have to be at a small distance from the mob as well.</blockquote>Care to explain why with no bow equipped CAs read 2-50m, with a 40m bow they read 2-51.7m and with a 35m bow they read 2-46m (all with extension aa line). Wasn't it coded this way so that if I was at max autoattack range I could also CA from there as well?? Why not vice versa? The way you explain things, you make it seem that the range of the bow should have no effect on the way CAs range work when it obviously does. You were so quick to fix the bow range stating that "It was just an oversight on my part but rather than leave it there for a month we decided to go for the quick fix so that the arts are not a perceived feature of the bow." Why can't you do a fix for the ammo instead of letting it go on for months and months like it has now. We shouldn't have to wait for a big LU for it to be fixed either, it should just be fixed.

Dirty Jack Rackham

02-14-2008, 03:26 PM

I decided I wouldn't betray back to Freeport afterall. I canceled my account as of 2-12-2008 after playing since 4-01-2005. SOE has 2 1/2 months to work out some of the issues hobbling Rangers. If I see some genuine progress then I will consider renewing my yearly subscription. If not then perhaps Shard would be so kind as to forward some information to me on this other MMO that they have been trying on for size.

Webin

02-14-2008, 03:58 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>You did read it but you didnt look at the actual minimum range I gave the spells <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> They just weren't meant to be point blank like it was but I didnt add anything more than what Rigid Scale bow was using which was 2m. So you still get the <5m bonus on auto attack damage but you also have to be at a small distance from the mob as well.</blockquote>I assume that it's useless (at this point) to point out that rangers would actually prefer to stand as far away from a mob as possible? In medieval times, no king put his archers in the thick of face-to-face combat. They always stood back, out of range of the attackers. I can't understand why we are fighting about whether rangers should be standing at 2 meters or 5 meters when a "ranger" should be at 50 meters. If this is all meant to give us DPS when fighting giant dragons, you should be fixing the combat mechanics (hit boxes, large playing fields with safe places to stand,etc). Fix the encounter to match class mechanics, don't break class mechanics to match the encounters.

Gungo

02-14-2008, 04:11 PM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! You were correct in your first post Gungo; ranged ca's did have a 5m minimum range. You are also correct on your second post; it is now a minimum of 2m! I had to go check that one before I responded. Whomever was responsible for that 'fix' thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!That's what I get for not reading the last couple day's hot fixes! That will save so much agony on positioning. /Hugs and makes up with Gungo. Happy Valentine's Day all!</blockquote>You did read it but you didnt look at the actual minimum range I gave the spells <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> They just weren't meant to be point blank like it was but I didnt add anything more than what Rigid Scale bow was using which was 2m. So you still get the <5m bonus on auto attack damage but you also have to be at a small distance from the mob as well.</blockquote>Regardless of the sidetracks the issue that needs to be addressed is that the mythical bow you created is barely an upgrade to RSB solely becuase a level 80 bow with cthe highest lvl available ammo reduces autoatk damage by 25%. But i am glad you read the thread maybe there will be further testing to see how badly this ammo problem is. This is game breaking to alot of rangers. It removes one of the main reasons to play an MMO, Progression in gear.

MuliganVanJurai

02-14-2008, 04:39 PM

Drodin

02-14-2008, 06:42 PM

<cite>Webin@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>You did read it but you didnt look at the actual minimum range I gave the spells <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> They just weren't meant to be point blank like it was but I didnt add anything more than what Rigid Scale bow was using which was 2m. So you still get the <5m bonus on auto attack damage but you also have to be at a small distance from the mob as well.</blockquote>I assume that it's useless (at this point) to point out that rangers would actually prefer to stand as far away from a mob as possible? In medieval times, no king put his archers in the thick of face-to-face combat. They always stood back, out of range of the attackers. I can't understand why we are fighting about whether rangers should be standing at 2 meters or 5 meters when a "ranger" should be at 50 meters. If this is all meant to give us DPS when fighting giant dragons, you should be fixing the combat mechanics (hit boxes, large playing fields with safe places to stand,etc). Fix the encounter to match class mechanics, don't break class mechanics to match the encounters.</blockquote>I personally don't like standing any farther than 10m at the most, because we are still about 25% melee so its detrimental in game play to be back that far all the time and, plus if I pull aggro from whatever reason nobody wants to chase it that far, and buffs/heals are also out of range at 50~m. It might be nice, but thats not the eq2 ranger atm.So Aeralik, since you seem to be so for things working the way they are meant to... why aren't bows meant to be 100% effective like every other weapon? Unless ammo is fixed we are stuck shopping for next tier items all expansion long for when we actually get the right ammo to use with them at T9 (tho I doubt I will stick it out that long at this rate).I was really happy to see this bow the first time, then the "oversight" got fixed. I don't see how a bow with this specific of an effect it wasn't meant to let combat arts work at point blank range (except maybe on pvp where it would be a little more powerful), or why it couldn't just as easily be meant to allow that since it is a one of a kind item - its epic!In the past, ranged CA's have always been dependent on the range of the bow, this new idea goes against what ranged CA's have always been meant to do.... I hate being so disappointed with this item now since you changed it on a whim apparently, and done so before so many other problems are left standing. What would be the worst that could happen if ranged CA's worked at point blank range? other than rangers being extremely happy and taking care of the extra large hitbox issue (for a good while at least) that is still standing and has to be addressed asap after this latest silly change to our bow. 2m really needs to be static regardless of mob size due to limitations on group buffs/heals/etc, or give 1 bow as an option to function inside that range, which we had for a day or 2!

Rensor

02-14-2008, 10:58 PM

<cite>Dirty Jack Rackham wrote:</cite><blockquote>I decided I wouldn't betray back to Freeport afterall. I canceled my account as of 2-12-2008 after playing since 4-01-2005. SOE has 2 1/2 months to work out some of the issues hobbling Rangers. If I see some genuine progress then I will consider renewing my yearly subscription. If not then perhaps Shard would be so kind as to forward some information to me on this other MMO that they have been trying on for size.</blockquote>I can't reply with certainty that it's the same game that shard was playing, but the mechanics he was describing match the Hunter class in LoTR:SoA perfectly. Tried the trial for that game myself. The Hunter class can fire off bow CA's from point blank range, but the AA switches between bow to melee weapons automatically depending upon your range. To the best of my knowledge you can't fire off bow AA's at close range. Oh, and yes! The class uses no ammo. No arrows whatsoever in the game. And for some reason that I still can't quite comprehend, the world didn't end due to this fact. A MMO where the ranger type class doesn't have to shell out more cash than any other class in the game simply to perform up to par? Preposterous! All this being said, I'm not going to be continuing with LoTR after the trial. I simply like EQ2 better, despite the disgust I'm feeling over the current state of my favorite class. I'm not picky about the "how." I'm just one of those people who likes the idea of balance. Make it so I don't have to pay more than other classes to fulfill my primary role. Make it so that our class is viable in solo, group and raid settings. For solo and group we're fine, but right now we have nothing to offer to a raid. Other classes offer more utility while dishing out comparable (superior, actually) DPS. It's a no-brainer for any raid leader...why do our devs have such a difficult time grasping the concept? And for Pete's sake, fix the arrow mechanics so I can start drooling over the T8 bows! (I've been /bug-ing the mechanics after every update. I hope ALL of you are doing the same).

Lolianna

02-14-2008, 11:24 PM

Yeah, we definitely need our ammo fixed. Losing 25% damage because of the level difference of ammo and trying to give 20% of it back to us with these mechanics is not a 'fix'. I wasn't being a traitor guys, I was just sooo happy to see that we are not going to be in a stranglehold with a 5m fixed distance and no play whatsoever to recieve both the bonus and use our ranged arts.

Wytie

02-15-2008, 10:47 AM

<cite>Aeralik wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meerah@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>LOL! You were correct in your first post Gungo; ranged ca's did have a 5m minimum range. You are also correct on your second post; it is now a minimum of 2m! I had to go check that one before I responded. Whomever was responsible for that 'fix' thank-you! Thank-you! Thank-you!That's what I get for not reading the last couple day's hot fixes! That will save so much agony on positioning. /Hugs and makes up with Gungo. Happy Valentine's Day all!</blockquote>You did read it but you didnt look at the actual minimum range I gave the spells <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> They just weren't meant to be point blank like it was but I didnt add anything more than what Rigid Scale bow was using which was 2m. So you still get the <5m bonus on auto attack damage but you also have to be at a small distance from the mob as well.</blockquote>Honestly to really make this bow worth its trouble it shouldnt require ammo!This does 2 things, it makes better than any bow in the game and gives you time to deal with the ammo issues on hand. By making in not use ammo, you can easy control how much damage you really want it to have and not allow ammo "that it could prodoce if it produced its own" not be use on any other bow to create an undesired effect.Its that simple <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />You can thank me for my idea later, its obvious the ammo problem isnt going to be and easy fix, this just gives more time to come up with a solution and keep the ranger who do have this bow happy.just my opinion tbh

Terron

02-15-2008, 01:43 PM

<cite>Webin@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I assume that it's useless (at this point) to point out that rangers would actually prefer to stand as far away from a mob as possible? In medieval times, no king put his archers in the thick of face-to-face combat. They always stood back, out of range of the attackers. </blockquote>Resorting to history is a bit silly when discussing a fantasy game with such unrealistic combat mechanics as Everquest II, but it looks even sillier when you get it wrong.The standard tactic in the War of The Roses was for the archers to start at the front, within range of the other sides archers. It would have been silly to risk troops that could not return the fire so they stayed back, until the archers ran out of arrows, and hoped the other side had also run out.At Agincourt the English archers were in the front line interspersed with men-at arms.When face-to-face combat started they would rely on melee weapons. They had about 80 arrows each - enough for about 8 minutes fighting.

Webin

02-15-2008, 03:29 PM

<cite>Terron@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>but it looks even sillier when you get it wrong.</blockquote>Point taken. I admittedly don't know as much about medieval combat as you do. I think the point of my post was that it baffles me why a RANGEr is now being forced stand within spitting distance of a mob. It's not why I play the class, and makes me feel too much like an assassin?At this point, what the the key differences between rangers and assassins, other than the names assigned to spells? (I realize this question over-simplifies the fine nuisances of the classes).

Timt

02-15-2008, 07:09 PM

<cite>Webin@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>At this point, what the the key differences between rangers and assassins, other than the names assigned to spells? (I realize this question over-simplifies the fine nuisances of the classes).</blockquote>The main difference is that I can sit down without the need of cushions <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Seriously, I do feel for you guys, this whole bow nerfing makes no sense at all on PvE.The devs need to go back to basics and ask themselves:1. What was the point of the epic bow ?2. What was the aim of the buffs ?3. Why do they feel that the buffs require nerfing now after all the extra development/testing that they have done (extra 2 months anyone ?)4. Why hasn't the ammo isse been fixed yet ? Note, I call it an "ammo" issue and not "arrow" issue. This affects all classes that used ranged ammo, not just Ranger. Sure it effects Rangers more, but we're all suffereing a DPS nerf here.

Snowdonia

02-17-2008, 07:11 AM

Dunno if this has been mentioned before but what about if the devs could add a new clicky effect on the bow to summon level appropriate arrows? Better summoned arrows than the normal summoned kind?Maybe that could help?

-Arctura-

02-18-2008, 03:51 AM

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> It removes one of the main reasons to play an MMO, Progression in gear. </blockquote>(( i hear theres a superhero game that has no gear at all. i couldnt believe it!

Mirdo

02-18-2008, 04:28 AM

44Dragon

02-18-2008, 01:36 PM

What good does pointing anything out do anyway? If a ranger steps out of the woods and tried to warn a village that a fire was about to engulf them they would all just laugh at the ranger and tell them to stop whining.Ranged combat is still broken, but that's okay since rangers were balanced as a class under broken mechanics. At least that's what has been said by devs, and there doesn't seem to be any other fixes in the near future. Working as unintended.The ranger Epic Bow is nothing but an attempt at covering up for the issues with ranged combat. A small bonus to auto attack to even out the damage hit taken by using lower tier arrows. Are rangers the only class that has an epic that tries to resolve class issues rather than an actual boost to the individual class?Look at the counterpart weapon for assassins if you don't think one side of the class tree got a clearly superior weapon, but then again Assassins don't whine about arrow mechanics all the time.I don't understand why people are so up in arms about the point blank ranged attack. That is minor, and at least the change is consistend with current game mechanics for bows and combat arts. If that was the only thing that made you want to quest for the bow then that's where you should focus the anger. The change is in, and it is likely there to stay. The fact that it negates most peoples desire to have the bow anyway is the bigger problem.

Ranja

02-18-2008, 04:18 PM

Back from a ban I got for trying to get the arrows fixed. Apparently, if you complain to much, you will be banned for some vague reason. Yes, this is all BS. The fact that our bow trys to cover up a broken mechanic is ridiculous.It is all ridiculous. Aerlicks comments to us. The epic bow. The ranger class. The devs treatment of Rangers. It is has gone on so far beyond ridiculousness. They knew about these mechanics years ago. They dont intend on changing them and the fact that our epic bow is USELESS to use if you have a fabled t7 bow is a crock.Fix the [Removed for Content] arrows. Fix the ranger class.Period.

TaleraRis

02-19-2008, 04:10 AM

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> It removes one of the main reasons to play an MMO, Progression in gear. </blockquote>(( i hear theres a superhero game that has no gear at all. i couldnt believe it!</blockquote>CoX? It has no gear, but you do have sockets to upgrade in the power sets that you have. The nice thing is that when in a group, there's not a body to loot. The socket pieces are automatically given out to the group members.

Tyrion

02-19-2008, 09:01 AM

<cite>Pogralien@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>What good does pointing anything out do anyway? If a ranger steps out of the woods and tried to warn a village that a fire was about to engulf them they would all just laugh at the ranger and tell them to stop whining.Ranged combat is still broken, but that's okay since rangers were balanced as a class under broken mechanics. At least that's what has been said by devs, and there doesn't seem to be any other fixes in the near future. Working as unintended.The ranger Epic Bow is nothing but an attempt at covering up for the issues with ranged combat. A small bonus to auto attack to even out the damage hit taken by using lower tier arrows. Are rangers the only class that has an epic that tries to resolve class issues rather than an actual boost to the individual class?Look at the counterpart weapon for assassins if you don't think one side of the class tree got a clearly superior weapon, but then again Assassins don't whine about arrow mechanics all the time.I don't understand why people are so up in arms about the point blank ranged attack. That is minor, and at least the change is consistend with current game mechanics for bows and combat arts. If that was the only thing that made you want to quest for the bow then that's where you should focus the anger. The change is in, and it is likely there to stay. The fact that it negates most peoples desire to have the bow anyway is the bigger problem.</blockquote>Very well said. It's a bit disconcerting when the game has progressed to a point where the developers create items within broken mechanics in order to even out the initial imbalance, as opposed to correcting that imbalance to begin with. I have no doubt thiat arrow mechanics is a hard fix, or it would have happened already.Agreed also that complaining about the point-blank range change (omg, I rhymed!) is silly. Continue crusading for an ammo fix. As a raid leader who has numerous level 80 rangers in his casual guild, I hope this gets fixed soon.