Question about Threat Priority

[reidster30]

I just got rescue and I notice that it increases threat priority to target by 3 positions.  The same thing goes for reinforcements, as it raises it by 1.  I was wondering exactly what does this mean?

[Iluvataris]

Rescue gives you enough agro to pass the next three people on the hate list. Whether they are 10 or 100k hate infront of you does not matter. It will add enough agro to pass them As an example you get killed in a group. Your hate is removed and the rest of the group will have agro on the mob before you. You hit rescue and it will give you enough agro to pass the bottom 3 on the hate list. Leaving 2 with more agro than you do at the moment. Reinforcement works in the same way but with each successful melee attack increases your agro enough to pass the next person for agro. So if someone in your group had 40000 more agro than you the next hit with reinforcement on it will give you 40001 hate (from my understanding of the spell) and thereon with each hit. I am sure someone will come up with a better way of explaining it than I have but hope this helps a little

[reidster30]

Thanks, I actually think that explained it perfectly.

[PeterJohn]

<p>I did not think the spell worked that way.</p><p>You don't actually gain agro at all. You just move up on the threat list.</p><p>Put it this way. If you just entered the battle (because you were sitting around doing nothing while your friends were attacking) and you have 0 agro, and you had 2 teammates that had 1000 and 1500 agro respectively, and you used a spell that moved you up 1 threat position. What would happen is that you would rank third on the threat list, but the spell treats you as being second on the threat list anyways. If your friends sat around and did nothing to gain more agro, you will still have to add 1001 agro from this point on to control agro for the group. (This will place you now as being second place in terms of actual agro, and the spell makes it you so you move up one position on the threat list to be number one.)</p><p>The way you explained it, the spell would make you gain 1001 aggro upon use of the spell. Then you only would need to gain 500 more to pass to first on the threat list. I don't think that is the case.</p>

[Iluvataris]

<p>If it did not give you the amount of hate needed to pass the next three on the hate list then as soon as they hit it would then go back to them. </p><p>Although I am not sure this is the way it seems to work in-game. Hate gain is always a hard thing to work out as it is not shown in any parse details other than assumptions of agro vs. dps, debuffs, heals, etc.</p><p>Does anyone know the mechanics of this spell?</p><p>Iluvar (75 Guardian)</p>

[PeterJohn]

<p>Actually, your logic is reversed. If all it did was give you just enough hate to pass, then it would be quite easy for the other to pass you back to top of threat list.</p><p>If what it really did was treat you as 1-3 steps higher up on the threat list, then once you gain the threat, the ones you passed could never regain it.</p><p>So I tried an experiment to see how it might work... Went out to Antonica with a 25 Templar and a 25 Monk. Took all de-agro stuff off, all reflective damage off, etc. Attacked a giant kodiak by having the Monk use Rescue Adept I (increase threat priority by 3 positions, and increase threat by 992) then left Monk's auto attack off, so she would not accumulate any more aggro. Templar then just kept Monk in the green by using heal spells, which of course increases aggro for the Templar. The Templar was able to cast 121 damage on bear and then heal about 500 more on the Monk before bear switched to attack Templar. At this point, I could easily make the bear switch targets by hitting it for a little damage by Templar or Monk, so our aggo at this point must have been about the same.</p><p>Why was Templar so easily able to move up to #1 threat of bear, such that the bear started attacking the Templar? Did the threat priority gain by Rescue wear off after a while? Is it broken? Does the aggro you produce wane over time?</p>

[Daghammerskold]

When the monk used rescue he got 992 hate on the mob from that part of the spell. The hate position increase did nothing if the temp was not hated at all when he used rescue. The actions the templar took (121 dmg and ~500 heal) shouldn't have been enough for the bear to turn at that point unless there was some buff or debuff components that brought the temp's hate up to 993 (hate also decays but slowly).The way I understand it, using your numbers for rescue, if the monk had 0 hate at the start and the templar had 1000 when the monk used rescue, the monk would then have 1992 hate.

[Iluvataris]

<p>The only reason I suspect that rescue gives you an amount of agro to pass the next on the list is due to my tanking with my wife with her nuke happy wizard. </p><p>She always find it funny throwing in an ice comet / nova just after the pull to keep me on my toes, lol. I cast rescue and I'm back ontop but with her next hit she regains agro. With running through my taunts and bigger hitting spells I can usually get it back though. I feel like if I did not have the same amount of agro after the rescue there is no way I would have made the 15k-20k that she had made on the ice nova plus the next hit too.</p><p>In raids where the tank dies and uses reinforcement to regain agro, if after the spell had expired there would be no way that he/she could make up the agro needed to pass the other 23 players otherwise.</p><p>This is only how I have come to understand this spell but I could be wrong. </p>

[Freydinessa]

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Actually, your logic is reversed. If all it did was give you just enough hate to pass, then it would be quite easy for the other to pass you back to top of threat list.</p><p>If what it really did was treat you as 1-3 steps higher up on the threat list, then once you gain the threat, the ones you passed could never regain it.</p><p>So I tried an experiment to see how it might work... Went out to Antonica with a 25 Templar and a 25 Monk. Took all de-agro stuff off, all reflective damage off, etc. Attacked a giant kodiak by having the Monk use Rescue Adept I (increase threat priority by 3 positions, and increase threat by 992) then left Monk's auto attack off, so she would not accumulate any more aggro. Templar then just kept Monk in the green by using heal spells, which of course increases aggro for the Templar. The Templar was able to cast 121 damage on bear and then heal about 500 more on the Monk before bear switched to attack Templar. At this point, I could easily make the bear switch targets by hitting it for a little damage by Templar or Monk, so our aggo at this point must have been about the same.</p><p>Why was Templar so easily able to move up to #1 threat of bear, such that the bear started attacking the Templar? Did the threat priority gain by Rescue wear off after a while? Is it broken? Does the aggro you produce wane over time?</p></blockquote>This would be a really good experience to repeat, but with the templar fighting first - and alone - for various lengths of time. Have the templar do say something like 250 damage, then have the monk pull and see how much it takes the templar to get agro back. Then again at a 1000 or something like that. It would be interesting to see what the results would be.

[Svann]

<p>I think threat position has to add the required hate to move you the positions.  Say you have 100 hate and the nuker has 1000.  You do a position move and it has to give you 901 hate so you are 1 point over the mage.  If it didnt do that then the game would see you as 100 hate and #1 position and him as 1000 hate and #2 position.  Then how would he ever catch up to you?  Having already 1000 hate he could never pass your 100 hate.  Unless positional moves are a temporary thing that wears off.  In that case you could each do nothing at all and soon the critter would switch back to the mage.  I dont think thats how it works.</p>

[Obadiah]

<cite>PeterJohn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Actually, your logic is reversed. If all it did was give you just enough hate to pass, then it would be quite easy for the other to pass you back to top of threat list.</p><p>If what it really did was treat you as 1-3 steps higher up on the threat list, then once you gain the threat, the ones you passed could never regain it.</p><p>So I tried an experiment to see how it might work... Went out to Antonica with a 25 Templar and a 25 Monk. Took all de-agro stuff off, all reflective damage off, etc. Attacked a giant kodiak by having the Monk use Rescue Adept I (increase threat priority by 3 positions, and increase threat by 992) then left Monk's auto attack off, so she would not accumulate any more aggro. Templar then just kept Monk in the green by using heal spells, which of course increases aggro for the Templar. The Templar was able to cast 121 damage on bear and then heal about 500 more on the Monk before bear switched to attack Templar. At this point, I could easily make the bear switch targets by hitting it for a little damage by Templar or Monk, so our aggo at this point must have been about the same.</p><p>Why was Templar so easily able to move up to #1 threat of bear, such that the bear started attacking the Templar? Did the threat priority gain by Rescue wear off after a while? Is it broken? Does the aggro you produce wane over time?</p></blockquote>I believe it works exactly how <span class="name">Iluvataris</span> described it, but there's one element left out. What makes it easier to retain aggro is that it also adds a specific value as well. It moves you up 3 positions (presumably by adding the necessary hate to do so) and then adds X hate on top of that. So in your example, the monk opened by moving himself up 3 positions (moot in this case) and then adding X threat to that. Once the Templar had done enough healing/damage to catch up to that # (which as I recall scales as you level) he took aggro back and you were about even.

[Freydinessa]

Yep, I believe it works this way too. It's simplest: once implemented, the hate point system isn't screwed around in any way, it's still in ranking order according to your numerical hate value. Then hate generation/decay continues just as it always does.