So who betrayed?

[Melodar]

I've heard and read that alot of coercers are betraying. I am simply curious if it is true or not. So if you betrayed or are betraying say so here.No I am not betraying FYI.

[Maroger]

<p>I am not betraying as I HATE QEYNOS (hated it in EQ1 too). </p><p>But I sure wish they would make illusionist a neutral class seeing they have nerfed coercer to the point of uselssness. </p>

[Obsidiann]

No, they're all talk. They're just blabbing about betraying as a method of whining. Same goes for "im gonna quit the game". No one actually does it.

[Aurumn]

I'm sticking it out. I'm stubborn like that.

[shogun007]

Not betraying either . But the situation as a whole led me to avoid SOE games in the future . I know this company for 2 years , they cant balance classes right,  ( they tend to buff classes that need a nerf and vice versa) . I cannot change the way SOE balances things so i wont bother . P.S  Obsidiann i dont care that u are an ignorant jerk . Medicine may help u , i wont . But u cannot deny the fact that some coercers already quit . U cannot deny the fact that we were nerfed twice in ROK , with named mobs immune to CC and pet damage nerf. We didnt get anything in return. I dont know how many will quit , but lot of people will definately play something else . Those who dont care about good/evil side will pick ILL.They are easier to play and better dps wise -) Anyway enough said , hope SOE will realise something (fools dream) and give us something in return.

[Xethren]

Im not betraying, never. I picked to start as a coercer, and my toon will die a coercer, if the nerfs get to the point where I retire or delete him, which they are getting close.

[Rijacki]

Ironically, I switched my raid character from a dirge to a coercer because we were getting a glut of dirges and had no coercer.. I'm more likely to be cut from raids now as a coercer, especially as the more hard-core raid guilds are ditching theirs and my guild's raid leader likes to follow in their steps often.Will I betray?  no.  I'm an RPer, so the character is -that- character and not just the min/max of skills, but... I might play her less and less or just tradeskill with her (as I mostly only do with Rijacki who is a wizard.. to me, simple root and nuke is boring, long cast times and wait wait wait for anything to hit is boring).Am I upset over the changes? most definately.  Soloing is a lot less viable and makes my coercer into a wizard with mini-nukes instead of the interesting and varied class she was.  I do a lot of soloing (or duoing with my boyfriend's troubie) since my time zone is different from most of my guild.  Grouping probably won't change a lot except zero chance of any encounter being one where I can charm instead of using up the 3 concentration with buffs instead (i.e. this changes Sandstorm a lot now, too, and makes Maiden's better, hands down, with an illusionist).Is it jealousy to see that there is NO encounter or situation in the game which isn't better or more viable with an illusionist vs a coercer?  No. It's realistic.This is, I know, preaching to the choir, but I'm just extemporising on the issues:Power drains have NO effect on game play.  They don't effect any mod 'abilities' (since those are sans power) and the other damage/heals/etc which do take power are only on those encounters where draining the power to prevent them would take longer than just killing them (and I've seen even normal, solo, unnamed mobs casting spells, healing, and doing CA type effects even at 0 power anyway). The topic of the uselessness of power drains has been brought up countless times and the devs have even made little noises about doing something with them (like at last Fan Faire) and then more coercer spells and items appear having them again.  Coercer damage is even noted as not being as high as illusionist damage because coercers have more power drains.  The uselessness of power drains isn't even confined to coercers.  Troubadors have more power drains than dirges and likewise have lower damage ability to their bardic counterpart.Coercer charm is 3 concentration with nothing to reduce the number of concentration for it.  Illusionist pet is also 3 concentration but they do have an illusionist achievement to reduce that to 2.  Necros and a few other classes can charm for extended periods of time (troubie charm is just CC, not dps) as achievements without any concentration cost at all, which annoys the sod out of me in groups when the necro gets to charm a pet in addition to having their normal pet. Sure sure their charm is limited to thus and so targets, but those targets do abound in some places.Most of coercer damage is in reactives and power use by the mob.  For reactives, they only do damage, like a damage shield, when the mobs target is hit, not when the mob is doing something.  So... increasing your tanks mitigation, avoidance, etc reduces our damage expotentially.  Stuns, dazes, stifles, etc reduces our damage expotentially.  As the group or raid force gets better equipped and more powerful, the coercer becomes less and less powerful, doing less and less and less damage.  Even in solo, as the coercer becomes better equipped, he/she can reduce their own damage just because he/she will be able to mitigate or avoid more.  Power use damage doesn't cause damage if the mob's abilities and spells don't cost power.  They don't cost power so they'll be able to do them drained and draining doesn't have an effect on them.  Thus.. coercer damage goes down even more unless the mobs actually use power.Guildmates of mine, on our guild board, started making lists of their "ideal groups" for maximising buffs, power use, etc.  Coercers are on none of the lists or are in the category of "if you can't get A you can take a small sacrifice to take B or a bigger sacrifice to take C which would be better than nothing" with Coercer as the C.  The most depressing of those was from the guild member who is the ultimate min/maxer.  He posted his list a week before the Maiden's nerfs went to Test and, in that list, Maiden's was the only one where coercer was one of his chosen classes and after the nerf went to Test he modified it for coercer as lower in perference.The irony, to me, is that I haven't been able to find even one T8 mob as effective a pet as the corpse candle in Bonemire (which was -the- mob to get spoiled with), yet, it is now they choose to see charmed pets as sooo over powering *rolls her eyes* I don't know if it was one-shotting in PvP, but if it was, then wizards and summoners should likewise have their damage halved, especially summoners since they not only have their own nukes but their pets' too. Their own, non-pet damage is more than our non-pet damage any day. But, I would rather the devs realise they made a mistake and reverse the charm pet damage.Hmmm... does anyone know if this reduction in pet damage affects the other classes' charmed pets or just the coercer ones?  If it does effect the others, maybe it was their combined damage that got us nerfed and not the liberated reet wizard (did that count as an animal, don't think it would be undead... though the corpse candle could have been undead, I think).

[Turb]

<p>There are, or were, lots of nice RoK pets.    But that's gone now.</p><p>My coercer is not betraying, but he is being mothballed until maybe one day in the future coercers get some love.    But right now he's not fun raiding, solo or in groups (with the possible exception of lower Sebilis or deep Chardok).</p><p>I used to be resistant to the shortcomings of coercers and drip drip nerfs, but now it's gone too far.</p>

[chily]

<p>betray ? hell no!</p><p>Time compression sounds good but CH is better.Some named drain a lot of power i have to use channeling quite often and the illus is wondering whoa what was that?The mythical coercer weapon is awesome for tank groups.Illu's asking for hatedec from coercer sometimes too hehe.The most classes like dps buff quite a lot.</p><p>Hatetrans :I say many have no idea.I say many have no idea how a coercer generates hate.Third eye generates quite a lot of hate, how often do you use it?Power feeds do some hate too.As long as i parse like 200-400 behind the illu's i wouldn't betray.And str line still rocks. See it as a porc maybe, how many porcs do 200dps zonewide not many i guess?What do i wanna say?Coercer can dps, Coercer generates good hate but you don't see all on parse and they are hard to play that's why most complain <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Aule]

<p>I can't bring my self to betray. </p><p>To the last poster, CH in no way compares to TC.</p><p>If I ever get to the point that I just can't take the nerfs anymore I'm more likely to roll up another class, or find a different game, than I am to betray to an illusionist.  Nothing against illusionists, but after playing this class for so long I just couldn't play the other side.</p><p>It's depressing, I really really want to love my class.  And up until fairly recently I have.  It makes me sad that I'm starting down that road of being significantly dissatisfied with my class.</p><p>I'm hoping that Gnobrin will live up to what he implied in his post that the issues are being worked on.  With Sony's history of failing to live up to anything approaching this all I can say is that I hope I'm surprised.  </p><p>The single largest failing on Sony's part is the incredibly high lack of communication.  Gnobrin take note, in order to keep your playerbase happy you absolutely must communicate with them.  I've seen more communication as of late, so maybe this is a good trend.  I'm really hoping this is a positive trend, but again, I'm not getting my hopes up.</p>

[chily]

<cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>To the last poster, CH in no way compares to TC.</blockquote><p>It does <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I was curious how much the diff in numbers is between tc and ch for wards. </p><p>on a one min fight and a single ward used onlynormal ward (60 sec/(1sec casting + 5 sec recast))*1 [*1= 100% heal mod] = (60/(1+5))*1 = 10 = 10 times normal wardTC (60sec/(1sec casting * 0,9 TC + 5 sec recast*0,9 TC))*1 [*1= 100% heal mod] = (60/(1*0,9+5*0,9))*1 = 11,1 = 11,1 times with TC wardCH (60sec/(1sec casting + 5 sec recast))*1,15 [*1,15= 15% bigger from CH] = (60/(1+5))*1,15 = 11,5 = 11,5 times with CHCH > TC for wards, reative heals and heal over times.</p>

[Obsidiann]

<cite>Chillispike@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aule@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>To the last poster, CH in no way compares to TC.</blockquote><p>It does <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></p><p>I was curious how much the diff in numbers is between tc and ch for wards. </p><p>on a one min fight and a single ward used onlynormal ward (60 sec/(1sec casting + 5 sec recast))*1 [*1= 100% heal mod] = (60/(1+5))*1 = 10 = 10 times normal wardTC (60sec/(1sec casting * 0,9 TC + 5 sec recast*0,9 TC))*1 [*1= 100% heal mod] = (60/(1*0,9+5*0,9))*1 = 11,1 = 11,1 times with TC wardCH (60sec/(1sec casting + 5 sec recast))*1,15 [*1,15= 15% bigger from CH] = (60/(1+5))*1,15 = 11,5 = 11,5 times with CHCH > TC for wards, reative heals and heal over times.</p></blockquote>haha great post.

[Taharn]

<p>How about doing that math above with cleric spells? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Not to mention the fact that "just single ward only" is a terrible way to compare abilities. CH doesnt make cures caster faster and recover faster either...etc etc.</p><p> Back on topic. I'd love to betray, but I'm on Nagafen and so unfortunately I can't, since guildies come before my personal class wishes. That being said, being in faction-only raids makes me feel a little less worthless, since I dont have to compare myself directly to illusionists.</p>

[KillSlow]

<p>not betraying yet</p><p> buy ILLY epic is better for tank groups than coer</p><p>why?</p><p>because its buffs the group plus the illy can arm the tank, so pretty much capping double attack, also buffing the hate transfers and the dirge in group</p><p>where as coer adds damage to taunts and ......</p><p>wait thats it, the power reduction proc is useless as in MT group never runs oop and i feed other people in raid when they need it or ask for it</p><p> its so hard not to betray or not to want to, everything is about the same minus channel, thought snap, coercer healing  - you gain a pet with no concentration slots(with myth epic) more dps, better dps buffs, better healer buffs</p><p> PLEASE soe relook at the coercer epic, we are the ones that wanted more melee buffs, and stop nerfing pve becuase of pvp if you have to retune mobs fine LET US KNOW ABOUT IT at least pls dont just say PVP only then it hits pve</p>

[Jeger_Wulf]

I betrayed. Loving my illusionist.

[Turb]

<p>Bah I play EQ2 to escape maths! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Anyway, note that the thing with TC is the casting and recovery speed boost.    You can react faster, and cast more spells in succession.     This is more important in many fights than raw heal output, especially for those long cast healer spells.     </p><p>This is one of the reasons monks are in vogue again.</p>

[chily]

<p>Yes you can react faster with tc, but if the mob is a hard hitter with let's say 10k doubble attack your shaman will love ch more.Yes Illu buffs melee big time with epic weapon, but it's half useless when the tank has to tank in defence coz the melee hit rate isn't that good on 85+ mobs. also a coercer generates hate with spells and they give more hate to tank then illu would give with melee buff.</p>