Haeth'Un?

[Daemona]

So what is a Haeth'Un? I tried searching the forums and google and didn't come up with anything that even gave me a clue.

[Kamimura]

It is an outsider.

[DrkVsr]

<p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Haven't figured out if it refers to 'surface-dwellers' in particular or any one that is not a native Neriakan (either a true-blood Teir`Dal*, vamp half-breed, cave-fairy or descendant of house slaves)</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">*by true-blood ah mean those who remained in Neriak when the old Foreign Quarter was closed off</span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<p>This name is found in Neriak? Are they vampires? I don't hang out in the city much, but the name is familiar.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

Not sure of the relevence, but <b>Fyr 'Un</b> means River of Life.

[Daemona]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This name is found in Neriak? Are they vampires? I don't hang out in the city much, but the name is familiar.</p></blockquote>This is from an NPC found in in Neriak Underground.<b>Phyravin D'Vaar says, "That's a joke right? That must be what you charge the Haeth'Un. Surely you don't expect us to pay that amount... right?"</b>I think there's at least one other NPC that makes reference to the Haeth'Un in Neriak

[Melodee]

Haeth'Un makes me think of the word heathen, which would mean any not of the True Blood in DElf terms, no? Which again would be anyone not among those who remained true to Neriak.

[Rainmare]

sounds like a lower caste/house of Neriak.that statement of 'surely you don't expect us to pay that price' usually means they expect a much lower price due to who they are in society, in the 'I don't care what you charge these little people, but I am not going to pay that kind of price when my standing makes me better than them.'

[Gukkor2]

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Not sure of the relevence, but <b>Fyr 'Un</b> means River of Life.</blockquote>Heh, maybe Haeth'Un means "lowlife." <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Daemona]

Whether that's the literal translation or not we may never know, in meaning I'm sure it means something very similar. Here's another reference to the word form a NPC in Neriak.Chaszzt J'Rzherae says, "After shaking hands with a Haeth'Un, count your fingers. The inferiors that walk along the surface of this world will offer neither mercy nor pity no matter how you treat them."

[Xalmat]

It probably means something similar to barrashar, which is what the residents of Maj'dul call outsiders. In just about every context I've seen "Haeth'Un" used in, "Barrashar" seems to fit as well.

[Kamimura]

<cite>Daemona wrote:</cite><blockquote>Chaszzt J'Rzherae says, "After shaking hands with a Haeth'Un, count your fingers. The inferiors that walk along the surface of this world will offer neither mercy nor pity no matter how you treat them."</blockquote>This quote is why I assume it is more along the lines of 'outsider', rather than a lower class in Neriak. They are those from the surface.

[Wilde_Night]

It means "lesser life"... basically any non-Teir'Dal.

[Rainmare]

theoretically, we could both be right. they probably have another term for non-tier'dal, but I wonder if the Haeth'Un term refers specifically to the Tier'dal of Freeport.they might consider 'surface tier'dal' the lowest of the low. so no matter how good a standing you have in Freeport, you're nothing in Neriak. I can't see a tier'dal warning someone about losing fingers after a handshake in reference to any of the other 'evil' races. their too cocky to think a different race could dream of having the skill to get the better of them in any situation.So this term coudl refer both to outsiders, and probably to the 'surface born' Tier'dal that have moved in, made residence in the newly reopened Neriak.

[KniteShayd]

If memory serves, the word <i>Haeth</i> is also mentioned in Bloodline Chronicles lore.

[Ishina]

<cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>It means "lesser life"... basically any non-Teir'Dal.</blockquote>Yeah, the Teir'Dal view themselves as a master race. The term 'Haeth'Un' represents all the other races - like the Romans would use the term 'smelly, unwashed barbarian' to address any non Roman.

[AllaK_Bludwyng]

I think there is some very good thought here, and I agree with the probable translation of Haeth (lower or lesser)-Un (life). It is definitely synonymous with Barashar (which means outlander, I think, in Arabic). And remember that Elvish is a created language. I think it is obvious that some wit at SOE connected Un (life) with heathen (a person of the heath, country-dweller, pagan) and arrived at Haeth'Un. Very nice play on words.

[AllaK_Bludwyng]

<cite>Ishina wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Aeviel@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>It means "lesser life"... basically any non-Teir'Dal.</blockquote>Yeah, the Teir'Dal view themselves as a master race. The term 'Haeth'Un' represents all the other races - like the Romans would use the term 'smelly, unwashed barbarian' to address any non Roman.</blockquote>Remenber, though, that the Teir'Dal  language is based on and very similar to Koada'Dal. I would be very surprised if Haeth is not also a Koada'Dal word that we just have not seen yet.

[AllaK_Bludwyng]

Whoops!Fyr'Un is the River of Life. the assumption has been that Fyr=life, Un=river. Are we now indicating it is the other way around? Do we have ANY other elvish river name to compare this to?Otherwise Haeth'un comes out as "lesser river"

[Ishina]

Those pesky lesser rivers! *shakes fist* Always causing trouble!

[AllaK_Bludwyng]

BTW, I was looking at the Elvish Dictionary at <a href="http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Elvish_dictionary" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2.wikia.com/wiki/Elvish_dictionary</a> and the name "Holciel Rowen'Dal" (Tomb of the Crown). I think that a more literal translation may be "Tomb of the Royal Elves" which would make rowen=royal rather than rowen=crown, but in elvish the 2 may be synonymous.

[Apocroph]

<cite>AllaK_Bludwyng wrote:</cite><blockquote>Whoops!Fyr'Un is the River of Life. the assumption has been that Fyr=life, Un=river. Are we now indicating it is the other way around? Do we have ANY other elvish river name to compare this to?Otherwise Haeth'un comes out as "lesser river"</blockquote>You're going at this from the English-speaking point of view.  Lots of languages are Subject-Object-Verb (SOV), and would be consistent with the thought that Fyr'Un literally translates to "River Life," sort of like when people say "the river Thames" when they're speaking of the Thames River.

[Zin`Car]

<blockquote><p>It is an outsider.</p><p>---------------------------------------------------------</p><p>It means "lesser life"... basically any non-Teir'Dal. </p></blockquote><p>Correct on both accounts.  It really isn't any deeper, more mysterious / ambiguous then that.</p><p>In Maj`Dul as someone pointed out, they use the phrase Barrasher.  It's either a simple description of a non-maj`dul citizen or it's cast as an insult proclaiming anyone NOT of similar descent / citizenship is a lesser person in all ways.</p><p>Similar to how Japanese use the word "gaijin".  Simply stated, it means foreigner.  However, depending on tone it can have negative connotations.</p><p>AND FOR THE LOVE OF DARK ELVES...  It is spelled TEIR, not tier.  A <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tier" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">tier</a> refers to a row, rank, level, etc. and has nothing to do with evil, blueberry colored elfkin of Norrath.  SOE is just as guilty of this as players.</p>

[CorpseGoddess]

<cite>Melodee wrote:</cite><blockquote>Haeth'Un makes me think of the word heathen, which would mean any not of the True Blood in DElf terms, no? Which again would be anyone not among those who remained true to Neriak.</blockquote>That's what I was thinking as well.  Just assumed it, really.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Interesting.  </p><p>Assuming that "Fyr" means "River", and "Un" means "Life", and further assuming that "Fyr" is an alternate spelling of "Fier", then would the Fier 'Dal be the River Elves?</p><p>[Yes, I know why you are not supposed to assume]</p>

[KniteShayd]

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Interesting.  </p><p>Assuming that "Fyr" means "River", and "Un" means "Life", and further assuming that "Fyr" is an alternate spelling of "Fier", then would the Fier 'Dal be the River Elves?</p><p>[Yes, I know why you are not supposed to assume]</p></blockquote><p>Fyr is pronounced like the word <i>FEAR</i>. One syllable.</p><p>Feir in Feir'dal is typically pronounced <i>FEE-ER, </i>but has also been pronounced as <i>FAY-ER</i>. Two syllables.</p><p><span style="font-size: large;"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></span></p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Interesting.  </p><p>Assuming that "Fyr" means "River", and "Un" means "Life", and further assuming that "Fyr" is an alternate spelling of "Fier", then would the Fier 'Dal be the River Elves?</p><p>[Yes, I know why you are not supposed to assume]</p></blockquote><p>Fyr is pronounced like the word <i>FEAR</i>. One syllable.</p><p>Feir in Feir'dal is typically pronounced <i>FEE-ER, </i>but has also been pronounced as <i>FAY-ER</i>. Two syllables.</p><p><span style="font-size: large;"><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></span></p></blockquote>I pronounce them both as "Fear" regardless. The NPCs in the game certainly don't pronounce it "Fee-Er" or "Fay-er"

[Vhalen]

<p>The 'Un is commonly used at the end of ancient elf words to represent all of something. In the case of Fyr'Un, that would be 'All of Life.' Many languages were derived from Druzaic and their meanings and word usage often have similarities with that language of pure magic. </p><p>The Sul'Dal had a language derived from both ancient elf and Druzaic. That language did not die with the Sul'Dal but rather, can be found in many of the lawful regions of Elixia, The Plane of Health or Life.</p>

[AllaK_Bludwyng]

<cite>Vhalen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The 'Un is commonly used at the end of ancient elf words to represent all of something. In the case of Fyr'Un, that would be 'All of Life.' Many languages were derived from Druzaic and their meanings and word usage often have similarities with that language of pure magic. </p><p>The Sul'Dal had a language derived from both ancient elf and Druzaic. That language did not die with the Sul'Dal but rather, can be found in many of the lawful regions of Elixia, The Plane of Health or Life.</p></blockquote>So "Haeth" translates to "outsider" and Haeth'Un means "all outsiders"?

[Hukklebuk]

I could have sworn this was hashed out already and that Haeth referred to the Teir'Dal Vampires?Was the NPC that used the term a vampire? if so it would certainly negate that.

[Daemona]

<cite>Tormod@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>I could have sworn this was hashed out already and that Haeth referred to the Teir'Dal Vampires?Was the NPC that used the term a vampire? if so it would certainly negate that.</blockquote>No, one of the NPC's hangs out in the the market place, the other can be found just outside the of the Hall of the Ebon Mask.It was nice of <b><span style="color: #ff0000;">Vhalen</span></b> to drop by and explain what "Un" means. I wish he would have conformed or denied that "Haeth" translates to outsider.

[Moltove]

They say the word in Freeport as well, so I highly doubt they talk of Vampires or any specific member of society, or at least just in Neriak.I agree with Oustider. Nice and simple.