Deathmarch use

[Galn]

Finally got picked for a *4 raid the other night in LoA when 72. I was in the mage group. Went to use Deathmarch and every time I did I was pushing up daisies. Didnt matter if I waited 10 seconds, precast or cast it as the last mob was at 60%. Am I missing something?

[ckninja]

Yes do not target the mob when casting DM

[Galn]

Ah... so simple but so vague in the information we are provided when we sign up for this job.. i'll try that, even in groups. I gave up on using it in groups unless I was tanking.

[Dragon]

<cite>ckninja wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yes do not target the mob when casting DM</blockquote>Does that actually work?  DM is a group buff skill that has a huge hate component added in indirectly because of what the buff does (makes you immune to a lot of debuffs + a killing blow will bring your group to have +huge int bonus, +cast haste, melee dmg).  I've always used it in groups as an agro tool over anything else, especially when fighting multiple enemies (it helps solo groups of mobs as well).Anywho, I can't see it working in raids as a DPS tool unless you are the OT or something.  It certainly can't be used during single target fights for DPS because the dps portion only lasts a few seconds (not enough time to make it worthwhile... even if chain pulling). For immunities, the I think you need to be OT or MT for it to work... but in theory casting before the fight started should have worked... /shrugh.

[Nor]

If you cast it before a fight, why would it be any different in generating hate than a pre-ward or a heal over time?  Unless they changed it, seems like at one point the mob would completely bypass the tank and head for the healer.  I had decent luck last night using it in Palace of Awakened on groups of mobs that were 3-5 levels above me, having a stamina spec'd brig tank.  I don't think I ever grabbed aggro no matter when I used it.  Of course, when I'm the tank for a group I usually don't cast it until I need +hate...

[Dragon]

<cite>Noruh wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you cast it before a fight, why would it be any different in generating hate than a pre-ward or a heal over time?  Unless they changed it, seems like at one point the mob would completely bypass the tank and head for the healer.  I had decent luck last night using it in Palace of Awakened on groups of mobs that were 3-5 levels above me, having a stamina spec'd brig tank.  I don't think I ever grabbed aggro no matter when I used it.  Of course, when I'm the tank for a group I usually don't cast it until I need +hate...</blockquote>Because this isn't a HoT that pulsates during combat, or a Ward that activates the hate upon hit.  This is simply a buff that stays on like any other.  Unless you kill something, and activate the second portion of it... it shouldn't have any hate during the fight (this is, if the spell is actually done so it makes sense... but a lot of times in games, stuff just doesn't make any sense at all /sigh).Theory crafting, I know... but that's how buffs work.  If you cast it during combat, you get a small portion of hate generated (dunno if you have ever played a healer or buff class, but something they tell you never to do, is buff on pull).

[Hugsnkissums]

Yeah, DM is a HUGE inst snap hate buff, or you'd swear it was. Like others have said, if cast before the pull, no biggie but 10 seconds goes away awfully fast. Cast it during a fight, provided you're fighting to get aggro, 9 times out of 10 you will come up with it. If you manage to kill something while it's up and it triggers...chances are you WILL get aggro if you somehow managed not to when you first cast it. I use it mostly for the hate generation or if I know we're about to kill a bunch of mobs with a small amount of HPs.

[Masoma]

Surviving casting Deathmarch in a raid:  first off, talk to the Main Tank.  The two of you can work out ways to try using it to find one that works.  For example, the MT may ask or accept your using a macro that announces to the RAID (tank included and hopefully any interested healers) that it is being cast.  On the announcement, the tank can try to get off a strong taunt or two to keep the aggro or he can announce when he has a good lock down on the mob.  If raid wide macro is not ok, at least macro it for your GROUP so they know its coming (I am assuming there is one healer in the mage group who can help you survive if they know its coming and you do pull aggro.)  Stop dpsing, or feign death if you do get aggro so that the MT can reestablish his control.   Divine Aura when you have that spell (sorry, dont remember the level its available) is a big life saver but remember that what you are trying to do is to buff the mage group without getting aggro from the tank in the first place. Cast DM very late in the fights when the mobs health is nearing the burn down level and the tank should have really deep aggro established on the mob.  The mobs health should be below 50%, preferably lower before casting as a general guildline.  You can tell the MT has good aggro if the mob is not ping-ponging around the raid.  It the mob is nice and stable with long MT aggro, its a good sign.  Not using your taunts around DM casting time goes without saying.   If your raid tank is as weak as it sounds, it may be best to not use it at all.  Deathmarch takes some getting use to in the raid environment and I ate my share of dirt finding out when to use it and how.   Also, keep your macro announcements very short and no more than one exclamation point. Woeman 80 SK/140 AA Everfrost

[Galn]

<cite>Gutan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, DM is a HUGE inst snap hate buff, or you'd swear it was. Like others have said, if cast before the pull, no biggie but <b><u>10 seconds goes away awfully fast.</u></b> Cast it during a fight, provided you're fighting to get aggro, 9 times out of 10 you will come up with it. If you manage to kill something while it's up and it triggers...chances are you WILL get aggro if you somehow managed not to when you first cast it. I use it mostly for the hate generation or if I know we're about to kill a bunch of mobs with a small amount of HPs.</blockquote>Spell has a 1 minute duration.. so this isnt accurate.. its 10 seconsds for it to go away..

[Dragon]

<cite>Ahkz@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gutan@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Yeah, DM is a HUGE inst snap hate buff, or you'd swear it was. Like others have said, if cast before the pull, no biggie but <b><u>10 seconds goes away awfully fast.</u></b> Cast it during a fight, provided you're fighting to get aggro, 9 times out of 10 you will come up with it. If you manage to kill something while it's up and it triggers...chances are you WILL get aggro if you somehow managed not to when you first cast it. I use it mostly for the hate generation or if I know we're about to kill a bunch of mobs with a small amount of HPs.</blockquote>Spell has a 1 minute duration.. so this isnt accurate.. its 10 seconsds for it to go away..</blockquote>Technically, it is 10 seconds for the DPS portion of the proc to fade.  But yeah <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Hugsnkissums]

Yes the spell is technically 1 minute in duration, but unless your group is killing stuff consistently at least once every 10 seconds while the buff is up, you'll miss out on A LOT of that spell time.

[Seolta]

<p>Its great if you're OT on a bunch of adds. </p><p>Also good for burning down trash, pop DM, pop all your ae's incl. Tap, pop blessing and if it's safe to use Contagion also zomg, carnage. You'll have aggro just about guaranteed but mobs die so fast it really doesn't matter as long as your healer's on the ball and the MT knows about it.</p><p>Generally, if you don't want to pull aggro just use it late in a fight.</p><p>Secondary concern, and one that wasn't voiced yet...other classes in your group pulling aggro because of the dps spike. That's why it's good to warn in advance. </p>

[crookshan]

<p>Instead of opening up a new thread on DM I thought I should revise this thread as it's related.  I have had people tell me that I should be casting DM on raids.  I must not be understanding the skill.  If you right click and examine it...it states something like:</p><p>While death march is active, every time a group member slays an enemy, the shadowknight's group gains increased combat attack damage and immunity to control spells for a short duration.</p><p> So how I understand it,  every time a group member slays a mob it procs increased combat attack, amage and immunity for a short time and the mobs in the area know u cast it therefore creating hate gain.  Am I misunderstanding?  Does it not work like that?  If I'm not how would that work in a raid?</p>

[Jurmoon]

<cite>crookshankz wrote</cite> <blockquote><p>So how I understand it,  every time a group member slays a mob it procs increased combat attack, amage and immunity for a short time and the mobs in the area know u cast it therefore creating hate gain.  Am I misunderstanding?  Does it not work like that?  If I'm not how would that work in a raid?</p></blockquote><p>Three reasons I have found to use death march on a raid...</p><p> 1.  If a nasty fear/stun AE is incoming, the 10 second duration can protect your group.</p><p> 2.  Its time to burn the mob, and the 10 second duration boosts DPS a good chunk.</p><p> 3.  You are tanking / offtanking an AoE enounter.</p>

[Nor]

Oddly enough, I've used it as an aggro boost, and still not taken aggro from some players.  I'm Adept3 or higher in everything but the HT line which is a useless junk emergency aggro boost....

[crookshan]

<cite>Jurmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>crookshankz wrote</cite> <blockquote><p>So how I understand it,  every time a group member slays a mob it procs increased combat attack, amage and immunity for a short time and the mobs in the area know u cast it therefore creating hate gain.  Am I misunderstanding?  Does it not work like that?  If I'm not how would that work in a raid?</p></blockquote><p>Three reasons I have found to use death march on a raid...</p><p> 1.  If a nasty fear/stun AE is incoming, the 10 second duration can protect your group.</p><p> 2.  Its time to burn the mob, and the 10 second duration boosts DPS a good chunk.</p><p> 3.  You are tanking / offtanking an AoE enounter.</p></blockquote>But from the description of the spell those effects do not take place until a mob dies.  From how it reads it's used best when your fighting multiple mobs, cast it before the first one dies and then the spell procs.  Then all those 10 second buffs actually happen.  Am I misunderstanding that?

[Nole]

<p>Dark elves have a racial detaunt that moves you down one threat position. I suspect this makes DM a lot more useable. I've never had a chance to pop DM in a raid yet. It's wonderful for soloing down 8-15 mobs lol.</p>

[Khamul]

<cite>crookshankz wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Jurmoon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>crookshankz wrote</cite> <blockquote><p>So how I understand it,  every time a group member slays a mob it procs increased combat attack, amage and immunity for a short time and the mobs in the area know u cast it therefore creating hate gain.  Am I misunderstanding?  Does it not work like that?  If I'm not how would that work in a raid?</p></blockquote><p>Three reasons I have found to use death march on a raid...</p><p> 1.  If a nasty fear/stun AE is incoming, the 10 second duration can protect your group.</p><p> 2.  Its time to burn the mob, and the 10 second duration boosts DPS a good chunk.</p><p> 3.  You are tanking / offtanking an AoE enounter.</p></blockquote>But from the description of the spell those effects do not take place until a mob dies.  From how it reads it's used best when your fighting multiple mobs, cast it before the first one dies and then the spell procs.  Then all those 10 second buffs actually happen.  Am I misunderstanding that?</blockquote><p>You also get the effects for the first 10 seconds after you initially cast. And for 10 seconds again anytime a mob is killed. Theoretically you could get it to go off 6 times total with perfect timing.</p><p>Gray mobs that will be 1 second kills by the group are great for keeping the effect going when in a longer fight. </p>

[kaannie]

ahhhhhh didn't know that...thanks for the info

[crookshan]

<p>Sounds good thanks!</p><p> For the person who said they didn't notice a difference or couldn't gain aggro when using it, if you fight multiple mobs, before the  first one dies, cast Death March.  You'll pull everything around you from almost anyone.  Those proc's are extermely noticable in that circumstances!</p>