Dev fist being nerfed

[feverz]

I have no fxxking idea why dev fist is being nerfed on named. no more crit on named? are u kidding me? i wont complain about it if u make us bruiser a real DPS class, but we are surely not, we use dev fist to boost our dps from time to time, other than that, we have Knockout to boost our dps which is pretty nice. but u cant just nerf out dev fist now, we cant do a [Removed for Content] on named w/o dev fist..

[Rattfa]

150k hits on named mobs was pretty overpowered tbh.

[Errolflynn]

Well perhaps now my monk will actually be able to get it to work on a named. As it currently is I have never managed once to land it on a named.

[Pnaxx]

I land it all the time...just gotta be careful that you won't die from the agro you get! But it will be a bummer to lose that....wuts next, Wizzies losing their big strike....Assassy's, Rangers??? I mean c'mon!

[Errolflynn]

You land it because you are not tanking and are assisting.Try it when you are the tank and doing the targeting.

[Junaru]

<cite>feverz wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have no fxxking idea why dev fist is being nerfed on named. no more crit on named? are u kidding me? i wont complain about it if u make us bruiser a real DPS class, but we are surely not, we use dev fist to boost our dps from time to time, other than that, we have Knockout to boost our dps which is pretty nice. but u cant just nerf out dev fist now, we cant do a [I cannot control my vocabulary] on named w/o dev fist..</blockquote>Well 1st off it's not a nerf. The skills says 25% not 25% + crit. It was always meant to do a straight up percent.2nd, with all the nerfing being requested by other classes you should be lucky that SOE didn't nerf it. I can live with a 107k damage on the end guy.

[TheSpin]

<cite>Nemesine@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You land it because you are not tanking and are assisting.Try it when you are the tank and doing the targeting.</blockquote>My monk buddy loves to tank, but when he wants to use devastation fist on a named, he targets through me and uses it while tanking no prob.  Lucky for him I never blindly assist the tank.  (I assist him, but not blindly)

[ganjookie]

It really was a tad bit over powered, and was easy to get off my targetting your MA if you where tanking

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Nemesine@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>You land it because you are not tanking and are assisting.Try it when you are the tank and doing the targeting.</blockquote>Hmmmm...I'll have to be more observant on this. I thought I was tanking when using it, but maybe not.

[ganjookie]

Pnaxx, the issue comes when you are actually targetting the mob rather then doing the lazy assist.  Awesome if you could target the mob directly and get it to work!!

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pnaxx, the issue comes when you are actually targetting the mob rather then doing the lazy assist.  Awesome if you could target the mob directly and get it to work!!</blockquote>Now I know it has worked on named mobs that were ^ for quests solo...but im sure thats different. I just must not be paying that much attention to the heroic named in instances on if DF is landing. I will report back next time I get the chance.

[Errolflynn]

Well, I tried it on two names last night and it worked on one and not on the other.Thats a vast improvement over my previous 100% failure rate. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Junaru]

<cite>Nemesine@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, I tried it on two names last night and it worked on one and not on the other.Thats a vast improvement over my previous 100% failure rate. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Examine the CA. Will cause 4XXXX - 5XXXX on target if    Is boss mob.    Is Named Mob.    Is Epic mob.Wow talk about a nerf. We went from 100k+ to 5k on named. I don't see how SOE thought we wouldn't notice this nerf but clearly the update notes didn't say anything about it.

[Errolflynn]

Well my Monk is only lvl 46 so I probably didn't notice the difference. I was so happy that it actually hit for some damage, 3k-4k IIRC and killed the mob.I agree it do should 25% health on a named mob as previously stated.Don't you just love the way that the test notes say one thing and you think yes that's Ok at least they fixed it, then when it goes live it's something completely different. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/c30b4198e0907b23b8246bdd52aa1c3c.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Sorffats]

<p>If they took away the stifle effect from dev fist, I wouldn't have a problem with it being nerfed vs named mobs or whatever.   But we get stifled using it.  There is a huge burst of dmg that will, alot of time, cause us to peel agro.  Being stifled, we can't use our heal.   </p><p>I don't know about you guys, but I'm so sick and tired of being nerfed every time I turn around.  Previously, I was a welcome addition to a group in maiden's, chelsith, vaults, etc.; simply because of my dev fist.   Bruisers have absolutely NOTHING to offer a group except for FD and Dev fist.  </p><p>Thanks, SOE, for yet another bruiser nerf.  You are well on your way to killing our class.  ya think maybe you could do something about those crit chances wizzies get on ice comet, the crit chance warlocks have on Upheaval (rift), the criticals that assasins get on decap.....oh wait, they aren't bruisers, they don't get dmg nerfs!</p><p>Why should I be angry?  I mean I am still dps.  Oh wait, hmm, that was nerfed some time ago.  Well, I can still avoid incomming hits like a champ.  Oh wait, that was nerfed too.   Let's see....I'm a leather wearing fighter, with practically non-existant mitigation, low resists, broken avoidance, long reuse timers on my combat arts.   Hey, I know, I can DRAG!  And I can FD!   "You have fallen to the ground."  Oh, snap!</p>

[Sorffats]

<cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>It really was a tad bit over powered, and was easy to get off my targetting your MA if you where tanking</blockquote><p>Over powered?   How is our one big hit over powered?  Compared to wizzie ice comet line?  Maybe warlock rift?  Or how about assassin decap?    Does their big hits get a tremendous decrease in damge when a target is heroic or epic?   Does it stifle them when they use it?</p><p>Overpower and bruiser do not belong in the same sentence together, at least not without a bit "NOT!" mentioned in there.</p>

[Deathma]

<p>150k i well agree is a bit much but 4.8k..... for 540 mana with a 10 seconds stifle and almost a 3 min recast.... please.</p><p>Gut Punch cost 148 mana has no stifle effect does about 4k and it can crit for more (think my max was 8966)..... why would anyone use DF.</p>

[Aull]

<p>I was in a raid in the crypt of thugga the other night and used my DF on the mobs and it wasn't worth using and I don't ever plan on using this ability again on a raid of any sort. Honestly on the epics I think my best hits were approaching 4400 top end. That just isn't worth it to me when gut punch lands (crits) for 6404, haymaker (crits) 5427, double stomp 3167, and without that darn stifle. I was in Jarsth Wastes helping a friend of mine kill saber cats and thought I would try out the mighty DF to help speed things up every 3 mins and it missed 50% of the time. So again I do not see using this hinderance for any of my journeys.</p><p>I would like to see this ability replaced with something that is bruiser/monk specific only. This is one class that is really needing some help in order for it to survive since we really offer no group/raid any benefits of having a bruiser. It has been said many times before why take a bruiser when A) they get one shotted by the epic mob(s), and B) can't be listed as dps since other classes do a superior job at that.</p><p>As it stands the only reason that my bruiser gets in raids with the guild I am in is because he is a higher lvl now than my zerker. Before ROK I had to beg the leader to let me use my bruiser and he would let me but I had to have my zerker on stand by. Usually not far into the raid I was told "ok go get the zerk" we are gonna need him more than the bruiser for here on out!</p><p>I really have enjoyed this class and I honestly can say that I feel bruisers will once again be a benefit to any group and hopefully raid they are accepted into. </p><p>Thanks.</p>

[ganjookie]

Granted I think that the new 5k limit on nameds and epics is not as good as it could be, but you are high on halfling weed if you think 160k + is acceptable.It was fun while it lasted.Remember when it was only allowed to be used on non heroics?  Yea at least you can still use it on nameds and epics now.

[Spacezzz]

<cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Granted I think that the new 5k limit on nameds and epics is not as good as it could be, but you are high on halfling weed if you think 160k + is acceptable.It was fun while it lasted.Remember when it was only allowed to be used on non heroics?  Yea at least you can still use it on nameds and epics now.</blockquote>Why would you though,  with the stifle wouldnt  it be less dps?  From what i can see we were better off when it couldnt hit nameds or epics.  Now it just a bad joke, sorry wasnt afk that fight , just hit dev fist by accident.

[hisawat]

I think they nerfed too much.At least they should reduce power cost and remove the stifle effect when we use against epic and named mobs.What they did is too extreme.Plus, they should have posted how they would nerf DF in advance and posted in the GU 42 update note.

[Sunlei]

 Prolly gonna add a bloodlines spells version 2 for some lvl 80ish expansion reward and nurfing the DF now so DF 2 looks like a upgrade.  It's their way <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Pnaxx]

<p>I dunno. I know when I use DF that the health of the mobs a ton...you can see it on the meter. Yea, I'm stifled, but it still is useful. When you have cycled through your CA's, you will only be auto attacking anyway...may as well slug the thing with DF and knock it down by 4k. By the time you come back, your CA's are refreshed...and when your stifled you still seem to be doing some auto attack dmg anyway unless the animation is wrong, which could be the case. But at anyrate, I still think it hits real nice. </p><p>To compare it to the crits on Gut Punch or anything else does not make sense to me as DF will one shot an no^ mob for questing and no way will Gut Punch ever one shot one of those. So, I can't see that at all, not even with a crit. But even if it did one shot with a crit, a crit doesn't happen all that regularly. So anyways, I for one, am still fine with DF. The few....the proud...the happy Bruiser!</p>

[Owa]

<span style="font-size: medium;font-family: times new roman,times;">Dev Fist is [Removed for Content] now. Did Vaults and CoA tonight and it was hitting` for less than virtually all of my CAs. Once it hit for 536. That's a quarter of my autoattack.This is - <i>was </i>- supposed to be our big class-defining uber CA. Then you gave it to Monks. Then you made it be able to land on epics but for less than an autoattack. Why even use it when it does crappy damage and stifles you afterwards? I ended up just taking it off me hotbar altogther. Nice job. </span>

[Novusod]

<cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Granted I think that the new 5k limit on nameds and epics is not as good as it could be, but you are high on halfling weed if you think 160k + is acceptable.It was fun while it lasted.Remember when it was only allowed to be used on non heroics?  Yea at least you can still use it on nameds and epics now.</blockquote>Yeah, I remember that but Bruisers also had other things going for them back in the day, especially pre-EoF when avoidance worked better and plate tanks couldn't dps. Even though the 160k Devastation Fist was admittedly overpowered in and of itself it was really the only thing that gave Bruisers street cred. Bruisers have no true class defining ability any more. Nothing that compares to Brig Dispatch, or Assassin Execute, Zerker adrenalin, or Monk's Tsunami.

[ganjookie]

IDFK Maybe its just me, but I am still using this in Vaults, CoA etc etc and still taking down the mobs at 25%.  Sure I don't use it on the named ^^^, but doing 25% dmg to them was overpowered, yet again.   I do wish it was toned down to maybe 5-10%on nameds and 0.5-2% on epics.   This wasn't a class defining wtfpwnbbq signature move, it came from an Adventure pack, that a lot of people did not get.  Due to a lot of whining (probably the same STR AA whiners) it became a CA that could be made into an adept3 and purchased on the broker.  Now every bruiser worth half their salt knows to just buy it, instead of questing for it.  It was great for taking out a solo add or something at the time.  Then it was changed to be used on Heroics and Epics.  Holy Brell that was awesome! It was useful and allowed our DPS to pop back up in raids.  Now due to what I am sure is scout and caster complaints cause we where sneaking into their DPS tier it has been moved back down again. What those whiners did not understand was that if I was doing DPS in thier range 1 of 2 things was happening.A) scouts and casters slackingor more likelyB) Bruisers giving up defensive skills and gear to go DPS. (Oh noess we forwent tanking to DPS instead)I also want the STR line to be fixed properly, Gorynn's Fist to use slashing instead of pierce, to get more aoe taunt attacks, a decent lvl 80 CA and not a spell! Doesn't look like it will happen.If you are so hurt by this that you can't use it on a named anymore w/o the stifle <i>killing your DPS</i>, IDFK use it at the end of  fight, or pop Crane Flock on a group of mobs, Dev fist the named, and keep using the 100% DA, and Frontal attack to your advantage.  Use your brain instead of mashing buttons or reading posts on how somebody else plays.Again.. thats just me.P.S.Monks suck

[ganjookie]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Granted I think that the new 5k limit on nameds and epics is not as good as it could be, but you are high on halfling weed if you think 160k + is acceptable.It was fun while it lasted.Remember when it was only allowed to be used on non heroics?  Yea at least you can still use it on nameds and epics now.</blockquote>Yeah, I remember that but Bruisers also had other things going for them back in the day, especially pre-EoF when avoidance worked better and plate tanks couldn't dps. Even though the 160k Devastation Fist was admittedly overpowered in and of itself it was really the only thing that gave Bruisers street cred. Bruisers have no true class defining ability any more. Nothing that compares to Brig Dispatch, or Assassin Execute, Zerker adrenalin, or Monk's Tsunami. </blockquote>Why are you comparing us to Brigs or Assassins?I understand a Zerker since that is a fighter, but c'mon don't compare us to a archtype we know will beat us in util and DPS.  So we don't have a a super kewl class defining ability.I can stun/KD a mob with KO, I can mez an add for a bit until the CC gets it, or we beat the current mob.  I can TELEPORT and drag some sorry gnome caster back to the group and kill, we can FD like what in every few seconds. I can self heal every 90 secs (please fix this AA too), we can train a group down into a dungeon to kill nameds.  I can grab aggro on a group/epic mob until the healers can prop them back up.  Does your MT want your avoidance on him, instead of his +parry ability he can use? [Removed for Content] do you want?OK Monks have peel an Tsunami, got me there.  Next Ex-pack we will be better, it's been a back 'n forth battle.  If you want to go monkey till then go for it. Fair weather bruiser.I don't remember picking a Bruiser in '04 and going hmm that dev fist sure is nice, thats for me yup yup. Sure you new Bruisers may have, good for you.  I am sure it hurts that the reason you picked a class isn't as cool as you thought it would be.How many classes solo'd to 80 the first week or two? Not many they duo'd.  Me I solo'd it.

[Owa]

<span style="font-size: medium;font-family: times new roman,times;">I managed to get a 70k+ hit tonight on one of the mobs in Chardok.  So perhaps my previous post was just a <i>teensy</i> bit over-dramatic.</span>

[Griffinhart]

<cite>Eragahn@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>It really was a tad bit over powered, and was easy to get off my targetting your MA if you where tanking</blockquote><p>Over powered?   How is our one big hit over powered?  Compared to wizzie ice comet line?  Maybe warlock rift?  Or how about assassin decap?    Does their big hits get a tremendous decrease in damge when a target is heroic or epic?   Does it stifle them when they use it?</p><p>Overpower and bruiser do not belong in the same sentence together, at least not without a bit "NOT!" mentioned in there.</p></blockquote><p>Well, considering a bruiser can spec to tank reasonably well or spec to DPS reasonably well, where a wizard can only spec to DPS...</p><p>Not to mention at Adept 3 Bolt of ice in a group can crit for as much 22K, averaging closer to 17k if it crits and as low as 6K if it doesn't.  With an effective use of once every 50 seconds or so.  It never came even close to D fist.  A good Fission hit can crit for 26K with an average of hit of 18k or so, with a 3 minute recast.  Even Manaburn tops off at about 40K assuming you are full power and that pretty much stops your DPS for the rest of the fight.  Wizards had nothing comparable to d-fist.  100k+ hits just can't be done by Wizards.  the closest it ever came was after the god abilities were added in and it was possible for wrath of the burning prince to top off at about 100K on a good hit once an hour, but that was quickly nerfed down to about 40K.</p><p>The notion that Devistation fist was anything but exponentially more powerful than any Wizard spell or Ability is simply misinformed.</p>

[Pnaxx]

Last night soloing, when i was using it on trash in JW, it was hitting for about 15k everytime. I'm not sure if that is just the hit points the trash has or what, but it was consistant. The trash ^ would not die from the dev fist, just go down 50%ish.

[Raznor2]

<p>I just use it for extra dps on trash mobs now.  It will still take 25 percent of a non named heroic's life every three minutes and that's not nothing.  On zonewide parses dev fist is still my top parsing ca even without the big hits it used to get on names.  Plus it can still one shot non heroic mobs. (Pnaxx, if it has a one up arrow or more it will only do 25 %)  So I'll miss hitting for those massive numbers like before and it would be nice if it was a bigger hit on epics and names but it's still a handy ca.</p><p>~Raithan</p>

[Owa]

<cite>Griffinhart wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eragahn@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>It really was a tad bit over powered, and was easy to get off my targetting your MA if you where tanking</blockquote><p>Over powered?   How is our one big hit over powered?  Compared to wizzie ice comet line?  Maybe warlock rift?  Or how about assassin decap?    Does their big hits get a tremendous decrease in damge when a target is heroic or epic?   Does it stifle them when they use it?</p><p>Overpower and bruiser do not belong in the same sentence together, at least not without a bit "NOT!" mentioned in there.</p></blockquote><p>Well, considering a bruiser can spec to tank reasonably well or spec to DPS reasonably well, where a wizard can only spec to DPS...</p><p>Not to mention at Adept 3 Bolt of ice in a group can crit for as much 22K, averaging closer to 17k if it crits and as low as 6K if it doesn't.  With an effective use of once every 50 seconds or so.  It never came even close to D fist.  A good Fission hit can crit for 26K with an average of hit of 18k or so, with a 3 minute recast.  Even Manaburn tops off at about 40K assuming you are full power and that pretty much stops your DPS for the rest of the fight.  Wizards had nothing comparable to d-fist.  100k+ hits just can't be done by Wizards.  the closest it ever came was after the god abilities were added in and it was possible for wrath of the burning prince to top off at about 100K on a good hit once an hour, but that was quickly nerfed down to about 40K.</p><p>The notion that Devistation fist was anything but exponentially more powerful than any Wizard spell or Ability is simply misinformed.</p></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: times new roman,times;">Are the highest magical hits on any server from Devastation Fist? Nope. The top 10 magical hits are Guardian, Inquisitor, Warlock, Wizard, Dirge and Shadowknight.  In fact when I stopped looking - I got about as far as 35th highest magical hit before giving up -  I'd seen all the above classes plus Rangers, Brigands, Furies, Paladins...in fact just about everyone except Bruisers or Monks. Surely Bruisers should be hitting harder than Guardians and Inquisitors right?</span>

[Aull]

<cite>Novusod wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Granted I think that the new 5k limit on nameds and epics is not as good as it could be, but you are high on halfling weed if you think 160k + is acceptable.It was fun while it lasted.Remember when it was only allowed to be used on non heroics?  Yea at least you can still use it on nameds and epics now.</blockquote>Yeah, I remember that but Bruisers also had other things going for them back in the day, especially pre-EoF when avoidance worked better and plate tanks couldn't dps. Even though the 160k Devastation Fist was admittedly overpowered in and of itself it was really the only thing that gave Bruisers street cred. <span style="font-size: small;color: #ff0000;">Bruisers have no true class defining ability any more</span>. Nothing that compares to Brig Dispatch, or Assassin Execute, Zerker adrenalin, or Monk's Tsunami. </blockquote>I would agree with you on this as well my friend and hope that we will one day have an ability that we and others will benefit from. I do not want anything like tsunami or should I say anything that would compair my bruiser to a monk. I feel to many times that certain classes see what another class has and then they want something like that so that it can be called class balancing. I would just like to see something that is all together orginal for us. For now I would like to see the strgth line fixed for the brawlers so epics or anyother weapon could be used.

[Aull]

<cite>Owain wrote:</cite><blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: times new roman,times;">I managed to get a 70k+ hit tonight on one of the mobs in Chardok.  So perhaps my previous post was just a <i>teensy</i> bit over-dramatic.</span></blockquote>Well my friend I do not feel your statement was over-dramatic. You are just passionate about this class and where the class is heading. I enjoy all your posts Owain! Keep up the good work!