SK Players backfired?

[Scyk]

Heya.I can't really say much, but I can say what I got .... right?I see alot of complaints regarding SK's in most, err no....ALL situations in-game. We suck at this and that and we can't do this and that. HT sucks (I agree), Our DPS is poor (I Agree), Our work in raids (Can't comment), less needed (I Disagree) and the list goes on. Hell, just looking at it makes you wanna puke & strangle a cat!i bet that most of those who makes the complains offically on this forum are end-game players. You've probobly been around for some time and you've seen much. Done almost everything and got the knowledge. But still you play your SK like you have to. Now I don't mean to be rude but my vocabulary is a bit crude. Why don't play something else and retire your sk? Personally I love my SK, he need some improvment though like everyone else.I do as most people HATE SoE for their bad decisions. Hell I was playing SWG for 3 months before the ReVamp came. I never forgave em'. But with some patience they may pull their hand out of their buttocks and get the Crusade Hybrid on a roll and see what they've done wrong.I'm only at T4 and going slow due to my guildies. We're a group of IRL friends that play just for the laugh and teamplay. I personally are looking forward to the end-game due to the pvp server nagafen we're on. My thoughts may change during my game play but hey, thats another story, right?

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>I find SKs to be one of the strongest all-around classes available, that's why <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Imo SKs are Tops with brawlers for soloing, tops with Pally's for group content, tops for raid OT all-round, and excellent MTs as well. </p><p>Surviveability is high, aggro is strong, snap-aggro is unparralled, debuffs are decent, buffs are decent to very good, dammage is decent to good and the sheer "fun factor" is amazing.</p><p>Its a great class and a blast to play.</p>

[MaCloud1032]

Personaly much comes from people who A) either dont play a SK or B) have never seen what a realy good SK can do.There is NO content that a sk cant do.  This includes all raiding, grouping, or soloing.  Yes there are classes that do it better and are easyer to play.  But there are also classes that cant do what we can.The main complaint is the lack of gear for our class.  As of now we are the hardest class to realy gear out.  I also see a lot of SKs that try and run like they are warriors.

[Noellee]

I love my SK. I don't have any of the OP's example complaints. My DPS rocks, my tanking rocks... I have no problem.

[Bruener]

<p>Well, for me I have invested a ton of time into my SK, and I like the "idea" of the SK more than any other class.  I take pride in the fact that SK imo is one of the harder classes to master which is why there are getting to be fewer and fewer good SK's out there.  Unfortunately the bad side to this is the player-base's lack of understanding of SK's.  Whenever we get somebody new into my guild it always amazes them the stuff I can do, because they have never played with a good SK.  However, even after showing individuals what a SK can do there is still the misconception that SK's are [Removed for Content] and useless especially at the raid level.  I mean never mind the fact that I can DPS extremely well and take the hits if I do get agro somehow.  Never mind that if the MT goes down that I am consistently second on the hate list and have np picking the mob up.  We are not designed to be MT's on raids, that role goes to the easy-mode warriors that have many tanking tools in their bags.  However, as an OT, or even a DPS fighter on the raid we bring a lot to the table.</p><p>So, I understand where people are coming from when asking for some fixes to the SK class.  We want some of that easy-mode [I cannot control my vocabulary].  Nothing like amends mind you...that ability is more of a crutch than anything else, however, we want things like DM to produce the same kind of hate % it did in recent tiers, we want HT our class defining ability to hit like other class defining abilities...since it is on such a long reuse timer it should drops a mobs health significantly instead of not even being noticed on an epic mobs health bar.  Epics....good old epics.  I would say 95% of the SK community wants a real good 2h wep for an epic, because this is what most SK's are using 90% of the time.  In eq1, and yes this isn't eq1 however a lot of the lore and abilities are from eq1, there were 2h's for crusaders designed to allow them to tank while using them.  We want gear designed with SK's in mind as well.  Half of our dps comes from melee damage the other half comes from spell damage, and as of right now you can not find a piece of plate armor out there that has spell damage in the form of crits (+spell damage is practically useless since it is extremely easy to cap) on it for fighters.  Most gear has plenty of str but lacks int which is where half of our dps comes from.  In essence you end up having to balance a lot of gear, taking out a piece here or there to up spell damage or spell crits, balance str and int....where as gear currently is designed perfectly for warriors.  Plenty of str which is their single stat for up'ing dps, and mostly melee increases.  Imo, a nice ideal piece of equip for crusaders would be a piece of armor that had equivalant str and int on it, and instead of just having +melee crit it also included an equivalent amount of +spell crit, since +melee crit only affects half of our dps but effects all of a warriors dps.</p><p>Overall, I love playing my SK and have invested huge amounts of time into him.  I will not re-roll.  Instead SOE should listen to what the SK community tells them.  There are plenty of us that enjoy playing the class, but a few minor tweaks here and there would go a long way to raising the desirability of SK's and debunking the misconception that most of the player base holds towards us.</p>

[Zannah]

<p>Perception is a good portion of the problem.  So you get to the top of your game - ready to try some raiding, and get passed over because the perception is that a Guard/Zerk/Pally can do it better and bring more of what is needed to a 24 person raid than an SK can.  If there is just 1 spot to fill, who gets it?  A Pally with free aggro, Zerk with huge DPS, or a Guard with lots of survivability?  Oh, or the SK that needs to be in the Mage group to be super effective, but still not doing as much damage as say another mage would do...</p><p>If people are looking at the deficiencies that the avg to above avg SK has - the perception is that any of the other 3 plate 'tanks' can do a better job with less requirements.  Certainly SKs at the very top of the game - gear/spell/skill - can make do with what they get group wise.  (Im banking that they push for an almost ideal group makeup tho).</p><p>I love the class - and Im having a blast playing it (beats the hell out of my Templar), but I can see the situations in which an SK really shines, and realize that those situations are few and far between in RoK.</p><p>Groups are great - Soloing is not horrible.  Find a friendly pickup raid and you're gold (or build a raiding group in your guild that contains you).  Getting a shot at the 'big time'?  I don't know that Ive ever seen a guild advertising for an SK...  Perception</p>

[Seolta]

<p>If eq2 had 48 person raids there would be absolutely no problem with SK's and raiding, but that's never gonna happen.</p><p>Min/Max wise, there's really not much of a reason to take an SK on a 24 person raid. </p><p>No offense intended Fillmore, but most of the people who appear to be totally happy w/ SK raid abilities, like yourself, have long standing spots in raid guilds/are guild leaders/raid leaders/officers.</p><p>The sad fact for the majority of SK's is that our class is simply not recruited or even accepted by serious guilds. I'd love to say that a good PR campaign could fix that. Realistially though, it's probably not gonna change till SoE addresses it by giving us something worthwhile and unique to contribute to a raid.</p>

[Silten StealerofSouls]

<p>I think a few of ther replys nailed it on the head.  The SK class has an ill perception of our true capabilities.  The SK class is a incredibly cereberal class to play.  In addition the gear that is presented in game is also a challenge to us.  When a SK is played poorly they really are poor, however if a skilled Sk is allowed to demonstrate the incredible capabilities of the class they really can change the perspective of a naysayer. </p><p>I love my SK and I have primairily played him since created and is 77 now, I took the time to reach my levels because I am old school EQ1 player who believes that knowing how to play a single toon well is more important then being first to 80 in all classes.  I play my class well and I am always sought after for grouping.  While there are certainly deficiencies as have been mentioned already, I like where the class is.  I like that have have to think, a lot, in encounters.  Yes I wish HT hit for a buttload more then it does now but that is not a limiting factor for me.  I love the fact that with a quick gear change, especially with the ROK +spell damage and +combat art gear, I can go from a high HP/mit/avoidance tank to a High power dps toon.  No I wont ever be T1 dps but I can certainly rock out some damage if I am the extra tank in the group.  And if the MT gets beat down I can hold agro/self heal and defend long enough to get them back in the game.</p><p> Look at it this way, if you find you dont like where the Sk is headed then I suggest a reroll or a betrayal.  If you find that you cant succeed on your chosen class then step back and evaluate what you know and how you apply it.   Hands down we are superior solo class and bar none the best single group multiple mob encounter tanks in the game.  I cannot comment on the high end raiding as I havent done much of that, but what I have done has been in response to a tell asking me to come. </p><p>Quite frankly the more medeocre SK's that drop away will only strengthen the perception of what an SK can do because it will be those of us who know the class inside and out that will remain.  </p><p>Hakuna Matada  77 Kerran SK Spellbound of Mistmore</p>

[Wildmage]

yeah bad perception carried over from EQ1 and a terribly flawed raid structure that seems to have been designed indepent of the awareness of the classes that were actually being put into the game, leads to elitism and the exclusion of roughly 66% of the tanking classes(not players) in the game from raid play.

[Nocifer Deathblade]

Sk players backfired? I think not..   I would say SK HT backfired. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/908627bbe5e9f6a080977db8c365caff.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[CHIMPNOODLE.]

<p>I hear these types of complaints from all the tank classes. Most of the main toon tanks I know are all on alts now....guards, zerkers, palies, brawlers....all types. They all have reasons to feel useless at diff times, and in diff situations. I find SKs have a ton to offer overall though.</p><p>In my circles, the ones who have tended to stick it out have usually been SKs and a few Zerks. Why? I'd assume fun factor and capability. I don't know many people who consider failing goals/getting squashed/losing aggro etc etc to be fun. I don't have those complaints, and due to what I see...I suspect many others do not as well. Its a very capable class all round imo.</p>

[Hamervelder]

The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted. 

[Shirodan]

<cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Shirodan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.</blockquote>Indeed.  Death March would thusly be our friend, if it actually worked consistently.  I can't tell you how many times I've been stunned or interrupted while supposedly immune.

[Nor]

I've had the same problem with death march.  I've even had it up prior to pulling a mob, only to have the mob make me all stifley, stunning and whatnot.  Of course, I'm stunning normally so perhaps it has less to do with the spell...Death march is great for getting aggro though, to bad I usually don't have it up when it refreshes, just in case I need to get aggro off an over nuking player.

[Beldin_]

<cite>Shirodan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.</blockquote><p>Misery is a very fast cast, circle is long cast but a combat art, so no interrupt. Before tap its always best to hammer ground .. helps alot.</p><p>However .. i've said it dozens of times .. my biggest problem in RoK is that we simply don't have big group encounters .. only tripple ups everywhere but no big groups. And fighting only tripple ups as SK is as boring as beeing a zerker or guard .. that really takes the fun for me out of the class <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>In KoS zones normally Tap Veins was 10-12% of my total damage, autoattack was 10-15%  .. in CoA tap is 1-2% .. autoattack is 30-35% now. Thats simply not the SK i loved to play before <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Shirodan]

<cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shirodan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.</blockquote><p>Misery is a very fast cast, circle is long cast but a combat art, so no interrupt. Before tap its always best to hammer ground .. helps alot.</p><p>However .. i've said it dozens of times .. my biggest problem in RoK is that we simply don't have big group encounters .. only tripple ups everywhere but no big groups. And fighting only tripple ups as SK is as boring as beeing a zerker or guard .. that really takes the fun for me out of the class <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>In KoS zones normally Tap Veins was 10-12% of my total damage, autoattack was 10-15%  .. in CoA tap is 1-2% .. autoattack is 30-35% now. Thats simply not the SK i loved to play before <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/136dd33cba83140c7ce38db096d05aed.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Our AE spells aren't too bad for cast times, you're correct (though I still wish Tap Veins line was a bit faster), but some of our other spells aren't. I usually pull with dreadful wrath due to the fact that it usually gets interupted mid fight, and unholy blessing, the one spell that you ocassionally REALLY need to land in order to survive some encounters tends to get interupted a fair amount as well when fighting multiple creatures.</p><p>I know that new AAs are probably a good while away, but how awsome would it be if Knights (cuz I'm sure our pally friends/adversaries have similar issues) got an AA that allowed them to parry every attack from the front while casting. If you think about it, you're not attacking while you're casting, so you can focus on defending yourself for the duration of the spell's casting. The amount of focus a Knight puts into their spells shouldn't be too hefty since they're relatively weak in comparison to pure caster spells.</p><p>Not only would it cut down greatly on interupts, but casting as a Knight would be a reactive defensive measure. Heck why wait on new AAs, just replace one of those useless class AAs (siphon armarment, I'm looking at you) we have with the above.</p>

[Aull]

<p>First off let me say that I enjoy the sk class and I feel that it is one that soe has done fairly well with. If you want a broken class of all the fighters I would say the bruiser is the least sought after fighter there is, but that is another thread all in its own. Sk's are to me an extremely great class and like many other does have some issues that needs to be addressed. Harm touch is probably the biggest in need of right now for the sk's to be corrected. As it stands I personally feel that the sk class is the number one "tank and not a fargin caster" ever day norrath content for all adventures. I cannot at this time say how my sk stands for raiding due to the level, but have had a few sk's mt some eof content and they did great! </p><p>I would like to put this out to all that have never played an sk and say that sk's are "tanks" and not mages or scouts. Sk's are decent fighter dps and on most everyday norrath content a properly played sk can make a healer bored! I get tired of hearing the "how did you parse" bs! There is so much more to being an sk other than just "dps". Sk's hold their ground and a player must work an sk to be great and not like "amends" crutch that was mentioned earlier! Greatest statement I have read in a long time btw! Sk's can do a great job if properly played just like most other classes out there but I feel sk's tank like nobodies business.</p><p>I would advise never invision an sk as a caster! WE ARE TANKS!!!! First and foremost we are fargin TANKS! Get adjusted to that concept and your sk will be doing what you are meant to be. Sk's don't need 3 mobs to be an sk. We are great at single or multiple mobs. This is a very flexible class to play. If there is another fighter tanking, use the ward/blessing on that player and show the group what all an sk can do. If a group member is going down then fd there [Removed for Content] and jump in there and take over. If it gets to be unsurviable evac your group and replan the strategy. Sk's are great.</p><p>I love all you guys, we all have issues no matter what we play. I don't think we are broken at all......period. If no one wants an sk in their group then that group is missing out and that is their problem. When you do group show that group what an sk is all about!</p><p>I would like to say again if you want a class that is in dire need of love go play a bruiser. I have one and that is the one class that I personally feel needs alot of love. As for sk's we RULE!!!</p><p>Later!</p>

[Scyk]

So I was in Tombs of Night this evening with a group of Inquisitor, Dirge, Wizard and a brusier. So I let the brusier go for the tanking cuz I wanted to try out my DPS. It went well, a bit to well ... the brusier we're 40 unmentored and still on single targets I could get aggro. So after a while he realized he couldn't make the encounter pulls, so I took my tank place. It went well except for a pulling dirge that went AWOL (Hope I get this right). He pulled on his own command even though I asked him 5 times politely to stop the pulling. I wanted the first conact to build my aggro since I'm only 33 with a crap weapon and 22MC (Me and my guild are doing the crafts by ourselves old-school style, so equipment is a process for us). When he didn't listen to my request, I went apesheit with my vocabulary (you may have figured that english's my second language). Some crude and stoneaged words were tossed and the well known Noob came up with the intention that I'm a noob as a SK player. I got to admit, at lvl 33 the game ain't complete, I'm still in the process like every1 else. I'm working hard as hell on the AA's.So with the word burnt deep in my forehead I decided that if I as a SK are so flawed that I'm a noob I'm gonna show him lightning, the kind of lightning that strikes repeatedly where the sun never shines. I'm sick of the twinks and the bold complaints. I'm gonna show Norrath something new and inspirational as many of you already have, but I wanna be in it aswell.

[Bledso]

<p>Let's put it this way</p><p>A lvl 80 Guardian in our guild told us that a 71 SK was able to pull aggro consistently through the LABS.</p><p>Nothing against the Guard as he is a preimer tank and has a strong rep - it is just the ability of the SK to generate hate is a bit better.</p><p>I have a 24 SK and I am amazed at the flexiblity and abilities of this class.  No I did not go Sarnak I went Human for a little RP and a Little of balanced stats.   I walloped 6 blues in BBM this am and was on a small amout of HP but I lived.</p>

[MaCloud1032]

<cite>Melot@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Let's put it this way</p><p>A lvl 80 Guardian in our guild told us that a 71 SK was able to pull aggro consistently through the LABS.</p><p>Nothing against the Guard as he is a preimer tank and has a strong rep - it is just the ability of the SK to generate hate is a bit better.</p><p>I have a 24 SK and I am amazed at the flexiblity and abilities of this class.  No I did not go Sarnak I went Human for a little RP and a Little of balanced stats.   I walloped 6 blues in BBM this am and was on a small amout of HP but I lived.</p></blockquote>At lv 80 in MMiS i always had agro from our gaurd.  That was with 2 hate increasers on him and a warlock pumping hate.  I had a ceor de hate one me of -28% and still tanked most of the zone from the pickup group.

[Seolta]

<p>All the above statements are true. I'm one of the biggest cheerleaders for our class...can search my past posts to see that.</p><p>HOWEVER....</p><p>ZERO serious raid guilds on my server are recruiting(same situation all over) or accepting SK's. With ONE exception that I can find, every SK in a t8 raiding guild is either a senior/officer/raid leader/guild leader.</p><p>We are great yadda yadda yadda, but when you look at the reality of the situation....it's pretty pointless to play an SK and expect to raid high end content unless you have a legacy guild spot already.</p><p>My raid guild from EQ1 quit EQ2 long ago and i've been drifting around ever since. Even taken some long breaks because grouping/soloing is just boring as hell. Not sure how much longer i'll be able to play this game in this state. </p><p>Options are basically casual forever, keep starting over from scratch in upstart guilds hoping that one can actually stick it out, reroll or quit.</p><p>After 3.5 yrs in this game and tons of time and effort on my toon, none of these options look very appealing.</p><p>All it would take is something like: (these are just off the top of my head and used for example)</p><p>Siphon Hate = raid allies</p><p>Mana Seive = group allies</p><p>Hammer Ground = chance to work on epics</p><p>DPS mod added to one of our group buffs</p><p>Just SOMETHING unique for us to bring! Bloodletter is fail in this aspect. We need something that will give recruiters a reason to want us. That's all.</p>

[EvilAstroboy]

<p>My SK tanks heroic dungeons like a champ. I took out Drussella before they made her easy mode for SKs. Have absolutely no issues with aggro generation, damage (usually parse within 100ish DPS of the damage classes, between 1.2k to 2k depending on group makeup, while in defensive stance with a shield) or survivability (60% damage mitigation (more after draining the mob), 42% avoidance).</p><p>But we suck at raids. How the hell can we compete with Guardians with their mythical that allows a tower shield with buckler reversal? Or as offtank with paladins able to instantly grab 24 spots of hate AND have ammends for aoe grabs. We dont excell at anything in raids, our uncontested avoidance isnt that crash hot to allow us to MT. </p><p>I want SOE to make up their mind as to our role in raids. Either massively buff up our DPS (like bruisers and monks get) in our offensive stance, and make it crap to tank using offensive (30% mitigation decrease or something) so we arent overpowered tanks. Or make us able to fill the spot of main tank, give us simelar uncontested avoidance and for the love of god change the caress line. Most tanks avoid getting hit, yet you want us to be hit to generate hate? Make it an attack / spell proc.</p>

[Meryddian]

<cite>Wildmage wrote:</cite><blockquote>yeah bad perception carried over from EQ1 and a terribly flawed raid structure that seems to have been designed indepent of the awareness of the classes that were actually being put into the game, leads to elitism and the exclusion of roughly 66% of the tanking classes(not players) in the game from raid play.   </blockquote>Well, I don't know I agree with "bad perception carried over from EQ1". I knew a lot of guilds in EQ1 that used a SK as their MT, including my own (both on Stormhammer and Seventh Hammer). In fact, my usual play group in EQ1 was SK, cleric, druid, me (enchanter), beastlord, and whatever we got for a 6th that night (usually rogue or wizzy). I <i>loved</i> SKs in EQ1 because I could be the puller as enchanter, and pull with tash (HUGE aggro generator) and the SK was the only one who could consistently snap aggro right off me on incoming. In fact, the reason I picked SK in EQ2 was that I was so, so impressed by my friend's SK, and I had had fun with my SK (before I ended up focusing on my enchanter) in EQ1.Mmm... beastlords. Now there was a class I loved playing with. But I digress.In general, I love the SK class. My only "angst" points are:- The whole "aggro over time" concept seems cool in concept; sucks in execution. [*insert dead-horse-flogging here*] SKs have complained since the game started that it just isn't working well, and nothing's changed. Instead, we have to pump a huge amount of our AAs into hate/aggro lines, and our epic contains a +hate mechanism. If it takes the epic to "correct" our class flaw, then clearly something is wrong.I guess my biggest problem with SK hate in EQ2 is that in EQ1, it seemed near-impossible to even compete with an SK for aggro; that's what the class was known for. So even though I've played EQ2 since beta, I still have a bit of a disconnect between "But... but.. but... we were so <i>powerful</i> in EQ1, what the heck happened to us in the 500 years between EQ1 and EQ2?!" Heh.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />- Spike damage vs. SKs - which seems like part of the reason that few EQ2 guilds seem willing to give SKs the shot as MT. Hmm, a raid-buffed guardian who cracks 17K and is a lot easier to keep on their feet vs. a similarly equiped SK who is topping out for 2-3K less and takes more effort to heal? This cookie-cutter approach to tanking takes away some of the flavor and variety so prevalent in EQ1 raids. I would love to see some boss encounters that are strongly slanted towards SK skills/capabilities. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I do agree with what most SK players say, though, and that's that a good SK is hard to find, and when you find them, they can really change the perception of the class. (I've even got friends who prefer me tanking to pally or guardian... not fully sure if it's my spells, my ability or just my charming ways, but being told "I love my SK tank!!" makes my night, every single time I'm told it.) Most of all, though - I've tried a lot of different classes. I have a 77 troub, a 71 fury, a 60 inquis, a 50 swash, and then I've tried just about every other class out there. I always come back to my SK!

[Moongloom]

<cite>Shirodan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.</blockquote>What would be interesting is if SK's had an AA like Inquisitors with their Battlecleric line.  This way all the SK's spells could be converted to melee attacks.  Maybe then may not have to invest in so much Int gear if all the spells are now melee abilities.

[Giral]

<p>the OP wrote " i bet that most of those who makes the complains offically on this forum are end-game players. You've probobly been around for some time and you've seen much. Done almost everything and got the knowledge. But still you play your SK like you have to. Now I don't mean to be rude but my vocabulary is a bit crude. Why don't play something else and retire your sk? Personally I love my SK, he need some improvment though like everyone else.</p><p>so basicly what your saying is" thanks for playing Sk from release,or sticking it out and getting your Sk to endgame and into a raiding guild , and helping to bring attention to the Issue's sk's have , and now that Sk's did get some of the much needed and long awaited love they needed , that they should all now just stop Posting about Sk's ? or should Re-roll or Quit?"   Nice , wish you could have played an Sk in T-4 back at release : ) </p><p>i don't play my Sk like im Forced to , i have played and succeded on my sk since release, i have raided in t-5 befor dof, raided thru t-6, t-7 and now t-8 , been in diffrent guilds and have Never been an Officer, and im no freaking brown nose poitical player(and that other Sk's think you have to Play game Politics is proof the Communty and Some SK's think the Sk class is Lacking) ,  i earned my spot in all of them, succeding at using a class that (was "Broken" back in t-5 and even back then i had people that used me over Guardians  to Tank for them) was Underpowerd in t-6 and the class was fighting for Survival by T-7. </p><p>Yeah it's easy to play an Sk in a Group of friends and reap the benefits of what the Long time /endgame Sks have helped to get fixed,   but to enlighten you Back in T-4 at release there were probably 2 sk's on all of Butcherblock above level 40 that were actively played, i could play for a month every day of the week and never see another sk,      do i think its rude of you to tell long time players and supporters of the class to get lost now becuase your having fun with your friends?  [Removed for Content] straight i do </p><p>you need to learn to Read between the lines, yes SOME sk's come in and Whine a quick post " SK's Suck" with no facts, no arguements, and the thread Dies FAST .    you should be focusing on what the Long winded posts say, do you read it ALL ?   there have been plenty of posts in this forum stating " we arent talking about t-5 or t-6, sk's are fine there NOW (and why are they Fine there now?humm i wonder) ,,,  Endgame SK's complaining about real issue's like Itemization, and underpowered skills, and bad Skill upgrading, and Agro issue's at EndGame that don't effect you at t-4 AT ALL, and you coming on forums to tell us to "shut up and go away becuase you don't wanna hear about what we need fixed at those levels " realy doesn't make any sense at all, you don't care if endgame SK's need some tweaks becuase your happy at t-4 ? gee thanks for helpin out us longtime/endgame SK's , glad i can count on you to Help out or class!!!!</p><p>take a look, Paladin forums they constantly say what is wrong with there class, and have Gotten ALOT of love, they have the Best agro in the game, can get more HP's then guards,higher Aviodance,etc,,etc,, the squeeky wheel gets the greeze and it is the major reason why in eq2 (Guardian Love in ROk and then Guardian Epic anyone ???HELLO) that SK's consistently fall behind , becuase our class Doesnt sit and whine on the forums Endlessly, we take what we have, we make it work, and when we see an obvious issue we bring it to the forums for attention, our itemization in rok is Crap, our spell upgrades form t-7 to t-8 were not scaled correctly, our HT is very weak, Dm is unreliable, etc,, etc,,, Yes the class isnt broken, yes we need some Tweaks, yes these Issue's dont concern you in T-4 , but hopefully we get attention brought to these issues so they can be  Fixed so that by the time you get to T-8 you and your friends can continue to have FUN! </p><p>the saddest part about the official forums is that Alot of the Experianced, longtime players have left to more informed forums, with other like minded players that want to See the SK class get Equal treatment and Fixes where there needed.   so next time you log in and are having fun playing a class that use to be Totaly broken, and now is a very well rounded class that needs some minor tweaks, thank your longtime/endgame supporters of the class that take the time to inform the devs and community where the issues are!</p><p>P</p>

[Baynne]

this thread actually makes me want to play my SK... it is one of the more positive ones i've read about what an SK can and should be able to do in capable hands.  the only issue i've ever really had was mit.  i have never gotten high enough to notice avoidance being very high, nor to see how bad HT is at later lvls.  balancing stats is hard indeed, and my last SK i got to 49 focusing on int, then str, then sta.  agi suffered a lot for this.  i had also taken reaver line so focused more on casting for the heals.  this time around im not so sure it is worth it.  i've seen what a good SK can do, now i just gotta learn what a great one is capable of <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Norrsken]

<cite>Moongloom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shirodan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.</blockquote>What would be interesting is if SK's had an AA like Inquisitors with their Battlecleric line.  This way all the SK's spells could be converted to melee attacks.  Maybe then may not have to invest in so much Int gear if all the spells are now melee abilities.</blockquote>Or the steadfast ability.Now that is something I'd just love for my sk.

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Moongloom wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shirodan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uros@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>The biggest shortcoming for our class (as has been said) is a lack of good gear.  The second biggest weakness (IMO) is that, well.... we're casters.  Yes, we have fantastic aoe dps and agro abilities, but they don't do much good when you're constantly interrupted.  </blockquote>The irony is that we can deal many times more damage to a large number of mobs at once than we can a single target, thus it is more efficient. However, being that we're casters, the more mobs we're fighting, the harder it is for us to actually get our spells off.</blockquote>What would be interesting is if SK's had an AA like Inquisitors with their Battlecleric line.  This way all the SK's spells could be converted to melee attacks.  Maybe then may not have to invest in so much Int gear if all the spells are now melee abilities.</blockquote>That would be very interesting indeed. 

[jagermonsta]

I think Shadowknights get a bad reputation in this game because many of the people playing them are just not good at it... Anyone can buy this game and power game to level 80 and during that time many of them don't learn how to play the class properly. The problem is Shadowknights are very popular from what I see and due to such a large player base the amount of bad Shadowknights is high so in turn other players get a bad impression of the class. It's like statistics show that women get less traffic violations and get in less accidents then men... but that is because there are <b>more </b>men drivers then there are women so their risk level is higher. Same idea...

[Hamervelder]

<cite>Aull wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>First off let me say that I enjoy the sk class and I feel that it is one that soe has done fairly well with. If you want a broken class of all the fighters I would say the bruiser is the least sought after fighter there is, but that is another thread all in its own. Sk's are to me an extremely great class and like many other does have some issues that needs to be addressed. Harm touch is probably the biggest in need of right now for the sk's to be corrected. As it stands I personally feel that the sk class is the number one "tank and not a fargin caster" ever day norrath content for all adventures. I cannot at this time say how my sk stands for raiding due to the level, but have had a few sk's mt some eof content and they did great! </p><p>I would like to put this out to all that have never played an sk and say that sk's are "tanks" and not mages or scouts. Sk's are decent fighter dps and on most everyday norrath content a properly played sk can make a healer bored! I get tired of hearing the "how did you parse" bs! There is so much more to being an sk other than just "dps". Sk's hold their ground and a player must work an sk to be great and not like "amends" crutch that was mentioned earlier! Greatest statement I have read in a long time btw! Sk's can do a great job if properly played just like most other classes out there but I feel sk's tank like nobodies business.</p><p><b>I would advise never invision an sk as a caster! WE ARE TANKS!!!! First and foremost we are fargin TANKS! Get adjusted to that concept and your sk will be doing what you are meant to be. </b>Sk's don't need 3 mobs to be an sk. We are great at single or multiple mobs. This is a very flexible class to play. If there is another fighter tanking, use the ward/blessing on that player and show the group what all an sk can do. If a group member is going down then fd there [I cannot control my vocabulary] and jump in there and take over. If it gets to be unsurviable evac your group and replan the strategy. Sk's are great.</p><p>I love all you guys, we all have issues no matter what we play. I don't think we are broken at all......period. If no one wants an sk in their group then that group is missing out and that is their problem. When you do group show that group what an sk is all about!</p><p>I would like to say again if you want a class that is in dire need of love go play a bruiser. I have one and that is the one class that I personally feel needs alot of love. As for sk's we RULE!!!</p><p>Later!</p></blockquote>Ever noticed that most of your abilities are spells?  As such, you are subject to the same weaknesses to which any other classes that casts spells are subject.  Shadowknights are a hybrid fighter/caster class.  The people who understand this are the people who play the class to its potential.  The people that do not understand this are the people about whom the rest of us have written.  The people that make us look bad.

[Krogoxx]

i have always played an SK,we are good for solo/group content, but we are not needed in high end raids.we make ok OT or even MT but we will never be as good as guards/pallies.  if we sacrifice MiT for spell crit/damagethat takes away from us being tanks.the best dps in a raid i ever had was in thuuga for 2900 and 2200 zone widenot even close to the dps classes that were doing 4-5k.our only buff for raids is a crappy stam buff. i decided to quit eq and try  AoCthe dark templar looks like a decent SK type class