New thoughts on the STR Line at my 78th level. [Archive]

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Pnaxx

02-02-2008, 09:52 AM

Ok, so I leveled my Bruiser from a young age with the STR Line and was perfectly happy. Once I hit 72, I went ahead and respec'd to another AA line. Went INT/WIS/AGI and all was fine too. Got nice weapons for my level, Knuckles Duster with adornment and Closing Time for the off hand. HAd recently teraded out the Closing Time for the Morning Star which was an upgrade for sure....I noticed it. With this setup I was able to do the Steel Shackle fight with the monk at 76-77....I think it was 77.I both Tanked and solo's...mainly solo though but love to tank when I have the time. I would say, if I always had the time I would tank the most. So anyway, I recently had a cheap respec so I went ahead and re-respec'd back to the STR LIne just for the fun of it. This time I did it a little different than the first time. I threw everything into the STR Line and totally maxed it out....8/8/8/8/2. I put the rest mostly into AGI and came close to maxing that out too. I figured, as a whole, I went with MAX DPS and DEFENSE. Wanted to share my observations.Firstly, In a general way, I havn't noticed alot of difference on my soloing trash mobs for quests. Seem to burn through them just like with non STR setup.Secondly, now I have Chi at my disposal for the tough situations which makes me like Wolverine on Cocaine! Geez...how baddarse is Chi? I am able to mow down pretty much everything I want.Thirdly, when grouped for instances ect...when I am relying on auto attack alot because of how long the fights are....I imagine my auto attack is twice as good as it was with weapons as my chance to Double Attack is at 98%....so pretty much every hit is a double attack. So I feel that I am contribiting more to the group. I always felt gimped in the auto attack before, now, I am sure I am really doing some damage.Fourthly, I would imagine the STR Line maxed out would be the perfect compliment with the monks combined with their haste. i mean, at 100% haste, with 100% Double Attack, that must be insane dps during their down time while CA's are refreshing. I would love to see what Monks have to say about that.Fifthly ( spelling?) hehe....anyway...last but not least, I am in no way trying to make an argument that STR Line is Uber to any other. The great thing with AA's is you can make things personal and to each their own. There is a chance I am not doing as much damage as I think I am...lol. I don't parse at all. As a matter of fact, someone was parsing our group the other day in CoA i think, and it seemed that my dps had dropped. BUt I was also the MT and concentrating on Taunting too. So may have had an effect. So , in a month I will prolly go back to another set up for fun and see how I feel then, but the STR Line has been serving me well and I don't notice a drop off at all in my damage and just have to imagine my auto attack is twice as good, or at least close.Food for thought? Maybe or maybe not...hehe.

Aull

02-02-2008, 12:47 PM

I will agree with you on your statement not making the strgth line uber to any other, but it is a good line. I like using it but I feel that it does need refinements. As for monks using this setup they are awesome! I know alot of people think that bruisers are this awesome dpsing maching when personally I think we are ok every 3mins for about 20sec burst and nothing consistant in a solo or non benefical group situation. Monks with the strgth aa's line are better consistant dps and will outshine a bruiser where group benefits are at a minimum...haste and dps for example (this is just my opinion though <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).I love my bruiser don't get me wrong but I made this toon having the impression of being the dps brawler, but I think monks actually out shine me. I feel that if they ever reconstruct the strgth line to allow weapon usage that many will start using it and I hope this will happen for us. Chi is very nice to have and is great on those long hard fights to finally finish off the mob.Anyways strgth line is good and I will use it till I finally get some awesome [Removed for Content] weapons but they will need to be just that.Thanks for your time and posts!

ganjookie

02-02-2008, 06:38 PM

Funny thing is...I don't know any good brawlers that like the STR line. Keep up that happy RP'ing attitude though <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Diimitri

02-03-2008, 06:17 AM

i am a level 25 bruiser. i am new to EQ2 and dont know much about the new AA's except for a few peoples different oppinions that i've come accross. is there something better for a un twinked bruiser than the STR line? i am full into the str line so far. only lvl 12 i think i am 4-4-3 i think. but yeah am i doing it wrong? i feel like i do pretty good dmg. i cant solo heroics ^^^ less they are LB but it seems normal?

Pnaxx

02-03-2008, 11:03 AM

<cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny thing is...I don't know any good brawlers that like the STR line. Keep up that happy RP'ing attitude though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>No offense taken.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

tanus

02-03-2008, 07:39 PM

From what I read awhile back...and unless its changed, barehanded is treated like a 2h weapon. This means that the 98% dbl attack gets you absolutely nothing special except ONE 2.5 delay weapon that dbl attacks nearly all the time. Get rid of the Str AA and pick up 2 decent weapons and you're autoattack dps will be about the same. You'll get higher stats, procs, and you'll swing both weapons 100% of the time with the added benefit of other dbl attack items allowing you to dbl attack duel wielding. Only difference is the 20 less on the dps mod, but seriously. A high t8 legendary or fabled (from CoA maybe) will certainly make up for the difference with the procs and stats. Dont be fooled by the 90 something dbl attack. Chi I wont comment on since I've never had it, it certainly looks like a useful ability...too bad the rest of the line is garbage if you have weapons equipped. p.s. I very well could be wrong about the barefist = 2h...if thats the case then I could see where your dps would increase over sub-par weapons...the procs and stats are > imo though even if thats the case.

Owa

02-04-2008, 12:26 AM

<cite>Kithian@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny thing is...I don't know any good brawlers that like the STR line. Keep up that happy RP'ing attitude though <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote> Well I don't know any good Brawlers that don't PvP*. Keep up that 'I can win against computer-controlled opponents' attitude though. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />*Not strictly true.

PaganSaint

02-04-2008, 03:36 AM

I don't know of anyone who is good at PvP that played EQ2 PvP more than two weeks before growing disgusted with the pathetic PvP system tacked onto the PvE system, and then those that are "good" at the PvP on EQ2 still don't use the Str line.Grats at being a red dot in a game that is lackluster for PvP.So yeah, not a single good brawler on PvE or PvP uses the Strength line.Tanus is correct, Barehanded with the Strength line is just crappy min:max two hand with a fast delay, no stats, no effects, no procs and double attacks everytime to attempt make up for those.

Owa

02-04-2008, 04:15 AM

Seems like I touched a nerve. Don't worry, son. PvP is an added challenge that is just a bit beyond some people. The mechanics are definitely not perfect, especially if you don't play a Brigand or a Swashy, and it can be a bit frustrating for a lot of players. But killing AI mobs is fine too. I do it meself a bit every now again in between actual fights

PaganSaint

02-04-2008, 06:53 AM

I bashed my head into the wall for three months on PvP when I made a comeback to this game. I mained Brawler(Monk then Bruiser then back to Monk), Inquis, and Dirge, on both sides and exile, lowest ratio was 4:1, ironically on the Brawler because I would get cocky and take on full groups solo. I was just trying to make it work, but alas, it just wasn't fun and after the childish learning curve of figuring out when, where and how to go places it was just as predictable as PvE. The classes are very limited in what they can do and if you know the classes and their AAs and their abilities you can counter them with any other class even if it is just enough to survive till reinforcements come.Knowing the mechanics and how to manipulate them is not the same thing as saying PvP is an added challenge, the only added challenge in PvP is blocking a Ranger or Bruiser from yanking your players when killing a contested.I know, I played all three roles, blocker, raider and yanker.So please don't act like it is a hard mode server type. Corrupted mechanics are still mechanics that can be predicted.But that does not change the fact that not a single quality brawler uses the strength line other than to take Chi.The end ability is great, but even that is barely useful when the waste of AAs that were spent on the preceding abilities are considered.

Pnaxx

02-04-2008, 01:40 PM

Well, I had the best weapons avail to me...including Sapon Fighting Baton...and my fists are just as good as those are as far as I can tell...i saw not drop off...plus i get CHI. But, like I also said...i was making observations......nuff said.

tanus

02-04-2008, 02:43 PM

Under melee weapon stats the Fists will arguably have a better damage spread, but at 78 you can be doing CoA. Get the fabled knuckles from there and the Deklium Battering Cudgel...both have better damage spreads then your Fists, plus they have some stats and can proc. Also at least with the cudgel you get HUGE crits and a higher proc chance since its a 4s delay weapon instead of your 2.5s delay fist or the fabled. Just my opinion, I'm a terrible Bruiser though /shrug.

Owa

02-04-2008, 05:20 PM

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>I bashed my head into the wall for three months on PvP when I made a comeback to this game. I mained Brawler(Monk then Bruiser then back to Monk), Inquis, and Dirge, on both sides and exile, lowest ratio was 4:1, ironically on the Brawler because I would get cocky and take on full groups solo. I was just trying to make it work, but alas, it just wasn't fun and after the childish learning curve of figuring out when, where and how to go places it was just as predictable as PvE. The classes are very limited in what they can do and if you know the classes and their AAs and their abilities you can counter them with any other class even if it is just enough to survive till reinforcements come.Knowing the mechanics and how to manipulate them is not the same thing as saying PvP is an added challenge, the only added challenge in PvP is blocking a Ranger or Bruiser from yanking your players when killing a contested.I know, I played all three roles, blocker, raider and yanker.So please don't act like it is a hard mode server type. Corrupted mechanics are still mechanics that can be predicted.</blockquote>Clearly you didn't enjoy PvP and went back to PvE. That's fair enough - it's your monthly fee. However, the reasons you've given for doing so just don't make sense: You refer to a 'childish learning curve', as if PvE demanded anything else. The AI is such in EQ2 that, other than a few raid situations, its almost impossible to die if you're awake. In point of fact if there is anything which can even pretend to being a 'learning curve' in this silly game it's the one involving how to succeed in an environment filled with player-controlled opponents. You say 'the characters are very limited in what they can do', when they have the same limits as characters on a blue server. What can players do on a PvE server that they can't do on a PvP server? Other than play really badly and still survive? Go /afk for hours? Harvest hour after hour with no danger of being attacked?You say: 'if you know the classes and their AAs and their abilities you can counter them with any other class even if it is just enough to survive till reinforcements come'. This is simply not true. There is a huge disparity between the classes, with some combinations being godly and some being absolutely horrible. If a Brigand catches a Wizard solo it's lights out unless the reinforcements are within touching distance. (This is actually a point against the PvP ruleset but I'm making it just to show how misleading your statement was to anyone who'd never tried PvP.)You also say :"Knowing the mechanics and how to manipulate them is not the same thing as saying PvP is an added challenge" but, by definition, having to manipulate more mechanics is more of a challenge than having to manipulate less mechanics. On a PvP server you have all the 'challenges' that you do on a PVE server plus you have the challenge of being hunted by people who want to kill you and/or prevent you from harvesting that node, killing that mob or finishing that quest. Not only that but (unless you're exiled and have to face a whole new set of challenges) you have to take on the toughest PvE content with only classes from one faction or another. So whether or not PvP is a difficult challenge, one has to admit that it is more of a challenge than a server where none of these things exist.You say: "So please don't act like it is a hard mode server type. Corrupted mechanics are still mechanics that can be predicted." I'm not saying EQ2 PvP is 'hard' like climbing Everest or going ten rounds with Ken Norton is hard. But in terms of playing this particular MMORPG, a PvP ruleset server is definitely, inarguably, 'harder' than a PvE-only ruleset. Even if the PvP were easy and childish (it's not) the fact that a PvP-server includes people trying to kill you makes it more of a challenge by definition than an environment where nobody can kill you ever. Personally there's nothing I've found in four years of PvE that can compare with the adrenaline rush of a good PvP encounter nor the satisfaction from defeating a skilled opponent. In my view, once you try PvP, PvE servers suddenly seem anaemic and trivial. No offense.Also, and though you didn't mention this it's worth bringing up, if one is at all interested in the RPG part of the MMORPG, then a PvP server is your only choice to experience the supposedly warring factions of Freeport and Qeynos actually at war.I wasn't really trying to pick a fight, mate, but was just replying in kind to Kithian's tongue-in-cheek post. But if anybody wants to have the argument over whether or not PvP servers are better I'm happy to continue. I'd like to encourage people on this board to at least try PvP.

Couching

02-04-2008, 06:57 PM

It's doesn't matter if you are in pve or pvp server, str line is obsolete. It's already verified in different threads, no matter from mathematic model or real parsing by players in EoF.Not to say, there are new legendary weapons and a fabled weapon you can get from quest or heroic instances in RoK.

ganjookie

02-04-2008, 07:14 PM

Ahh crap Pagan posted, this thread will be closed now <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

PaganSaint

02-04-2008, 08:15 PM

Sorry Owain but all the added difficulty is from corrupted and poorly implemented mechanics.Though I am in 100% agreement, for RP purposes if I wanted to RP I would definitely be on a RPPVP server instead of a PvE.

Owa

02-05-2008, 02:41 AM

<cite>PaganSaint wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sorry Owain but all the added difficulty is from corrupted and poorly implemented mechanics.Though I am in 100% agreement, for RP purposes if I wanted to RP I would definitely be on a RPPVP server instead of a PvE.</blockquote>I can't see why you would say that all the difficulty in PvP comes from faulty and corrupted mechanics. That implies that coping with the mechanics is more difficult than fighting other players, completing quests in contested territory or taking down raid mobs without half the classes you need. Personally I've never found the mechanics themselves to be that difficult. In fact, compared with outfighting a well-played level 80 Monk or Bruiser I'd say dealing with the mechanics is a piece of cake. Whatever, though. Clearly PvP is not for you and I'm not going to waste my time trying to persuade someone who's quite obviously made up their mind not to like it. The fact remains, however, that a lot of people only play EQ2 because of its PvP element and a fair amount of PvE players who have never tried PvP might well give it a go if they only knew how much more fun it is to compete in a dynamic rather than a static environment.

tanus

02-05-2008, 04:02 AM

This isnt a PvP vs PvE thread...its about Pnaxxs' thoughts about the Str line and his experience with it. If he feels that he is doing more damage and is enjoying his toon more with it then more power to him (though again, it HAS been tested and stated that the line is absolute garbage other then Chi if you have even halfway decent weapons).As for the PvP/PvE stuff...I played up to lvl 50 something back when the PvP servers first went live, I wasn't thrilled with the way the mechanics balanced out either. SoE shoulda taken a page from Mythics Dark Age of Camelot (minus the zerg aspect). That was hands down one of the best PvP games thats ever been made...people are still playing it just for the PvP. Again, thats just my opinion. Str line still blows,.Boycott the Str line! STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE! If you're on Blackburrow and you are playing a brawler...I'll buy you mastercrafted weapons for your current tier if you spec out of the Str line...screw it.

Pnaxx

02-05-2008, 09:02 AM

<cite>Dralvin@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote>This isnt a PvP vs PvE thread...its about Pnaxxs' thoughts about the Str line and his experience with it. If he feels that he is doing more damage and is enjoying his toon more with it then more power to him (though again, it HAS been tested and stated that the line is absolute garbage other then Chi if you have even halfway decent weapons).As for the PvP/PvE stuff...I played up to lvl 50 something back when the PvP servers first went live, I wasn't thrilled with the way the mechanics balanced out either. SoE shoulda taken a page from Mythics Dark Age of Camelot (minus the zerg aspect). That was hands down one of the best PvP games thats ever been made...people are still playing it just for the PvP. Again, thats just my opinion. Str line still blows,.Boycott the Str line! STRIKE STRIKE STRIKE! If you're on Blackburrow and you are playing a brawler...I'll buy you mastercrafted weapons for your current tier if you spec out of the Str line...screw it.</blockquote>Hehe....I like the drama! Very nice. Remember, I had MC weapons at 72 and Legendary ones shortly thereaftre....Knuckle Dusters (Adorned)/Closing Time/Star of the Morning Glory with INT/WIS/AGI in various respec'd forms. So I do have a measure to judge here other than just the numbers game.Last night I went into CoA and had someone parse for me the dmg we alll did. My damage seemed to be in line with what I've always done. Nothing really changed.I do Miss my weapons though. But I do love the double attack! When we are doing instances, auto attack is a big deal and Bruisers don't really do a great deal of dmg there, but with the DA, we sorta do better I think in that area. BUt other than the parse, which looked pretty good to me, I really don't know for sure. I did arm weapons to see the stats and here is what I found....Knuckle Duster...BAse Dmg=57-106Actual DMG=182-338Act delay=1.9Proc=8.0%PPM=2.4Star of Morning Glory...BAse DMG=115-213Act Dmg=367-681Act delay=3.9Proc=16%PPM=2.4Fists.......(for the life of me I can't find my noted on the stats!) But they looked worse to me.ok....found the statsFistBase dmg=77-128Act dmg=245-408act delay=1.8Proc%=7.5PPM=1.8So there you have it. Not 100% sure what it all means, but the fists don't look like they stack up with either weapon.

Solu

02-05-2008, 11:20 AM

355dps vs 271dps, 30% auto attack advantage unarmed before taking procs and crit into account. INT gives 18.4% crit that closes the gap to 355 vs. 321 but INT also boosts CA damage... I think. But then nothing stopping someone from taking STR and INT <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />