Is EQ:OA now offical canon lore? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

teddyboy4

02-01-2008, 06:18 PM

You beat me to it, I was going to come and post that exact same line here, lol."Some items touch back to FAR earlier times, so deep knowledge of history (touching on EverQuest lore and even going as far back as EverQuest Online Adventures, 1000 years in the past!)"I think it certainly adds at least some credibility to the EQoA lore, and it certainly can't just be tossed to the side anymore. Seeing as they've been bringing in more bits of lore from EQoA as things have progressed, it definitely adds wieght to the argument that EQoA is part of canon. I'm sure you'll have some people come here and say that they still won't accept it, and this and that, but the fact that the devs are acknowledging it is enough for me. And yes, there are inconsistencies, but they are present throughout all 3 EQ MMOs, I won't even get into the non-MMO EQ games....but inconsistencies in the lore are always going to be there and you can't just throw away parts of lore b/c you personally don't like it. Something that needs to be remembered is that alot of the lore we have comes from the mouths of the residents of Norrath and are subject to their points-of-view and prejudices, so there are bound to be lots of inconsistencies.

Arianah

02-01-2008, 07:41 PM

Aye *nods in agreement with teddyboy420* <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />This is exciting, I've never played EQoA, so I'm not familiar with any of it's lore, woohoo!! 'new' lore! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Since it's EQoA - 500 years - EQ - 500 years - EQII, how can they not be the same? It's all Norrath. Sure, some or lots of particulars are missing or changed in the lore due to events like the whole Planes of Power timeline and such, but doesn't mean it's not real. Alternate realities *nod*Everything on my website will remain canon to it's particular game world though.

Cusashorn

02-01-2008, 08:25 PM

From what I see, it only means that only parts of EQOA are official canon lore, just like how only some parts of it is now.We'll see if any of these epics actually make the existances of Highborn, Moradhim, or Klik'anon part of the Everquest universe, or if they will remain as little more than an excuse for those playable races to exist in the game.

Maergoth

02-02-2008, 02:42 PM

I personally don't understand how hard it is to accept inconsistency.. No, they aren't alternate universes until the time split in PoP, EVERYTHING Pre PoP EQ1, including EQOA should be considered Canon, whether it's there as solid proof or not.History will always have inconsistencies and people denying the obvious, some things have just been forgotten enough that they won't seem to have ever existed or make sense at all.. I always thought of EQOA like a storybook.. a recollection of sorts.. some of it will be true, and some will be misconstrued, like all history has been.

Ama

02-02-2008, 03:23 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>From what I see, it only means that only parts of EQOA are official canon lore, just like how only some parts of it is now.We'll see if any of these epics actually make the existances of Highborn, Moradhim, or Klik'anon part of the Everquest universe, or if they will remain as little more than an excuse for those playable races to exist in the game.</blockquote>Sadly i'm betting there will be some references, but EQOA will still be controversial in nature. Would be nice if castle survived with all of the Jareth monsters in it. Be sweet to have that link to another of the planes of existance that was shielded from the Shattering. Plane of Time would be nice or the plane of disease.

Melodee

02-02-2008, 03:25 PM

Having played through all 3 generations (?) of everquest, I have to admit I'm pleased to see them finally recognizing that some of the lore in EQOA is credible. I remember awhile back when I was playing the game, I was trying to gather lore for some RP I wanted to do, and all I could get was "eqoa isn't technically related to the pc game and nothing is cannon". YAY EQOA!

Arianah

02-02-2008, 04:00 PM

Apocroph

02-02-2008, 11:28 PM

I think Jimmy Eat World might have said it best..."The past is told by those who win."

Mary the Prophetess

02-03-2008, 01:43 AM

Much as I like Jimmy Eat World, (especially "This is my Sundown'), I am not *quite* ready to let him upstage Winston on that quote./winks

troodon

02-03-2008, 02:35 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally don't understand how hard it is to accept inconsistency.. </blockquote>That's an absurd position.With regards to the OP, IMO, the only things that are valid lore from EQoA are those that are directly referenced

Apocroph

02-03-2008, 02:52 PM

<cite>Mary the Prophetess wrote:</cite><blockquote>Much as I like Jimmy Eat World, (especially "This is my Sundown'<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, I am not *quite* ready to let him upstage Winston on that quote./winks</blockquote>But Winston didn't have that feelgood melody and boyish good looks!Eh, at any rate, I'd say that much like post-PoP lore, the only bits that are valid in EQ2 are the ones directly referenced. Keeps things from being too complicated by inconsistency.

Gisallo

02-03-2008, 08:38 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>I personally don't understand how hard it is to accept inconsistency.. No, they aren't alternate universes until the time split in PoP, EVERYTHING Pre PoP EQ1, including EQOA should be considered Canon, whether it's there as solid proof or not.History will always have inconsistencies and people denying the obvious, some things have just been forgotten enough that they won't seem to have ever existed or make sense at all.. I always thought of EQOA like a storybook.. a recollection of sorts.. some of it will be true, and some will be misconstrued, like all history has been.</blockquote>Have to agree with you here Maergoth. There are some basic things that need to be consistent (race age etc. basic bological stuff) but beyond that look at our own world.as I posted elsewhere" In "days of high adventure" many places, people and events will become Legend. Legends change with the telling, grow in grandure or fade with time, get confused and even lost. The fact that lore contradicts itself sort of expands on this. You have in the real world tales of Merlin. He is mad man made so by the horrors of war and thus given the gift of prophesy in some early stories. In others a mythical "man without a father" whose coming was foretold and whose blood needed to be sprinkled on the ground where a tower could not be built without it falling, and instead saw with his "sight" the two dragons that fought beneath the ground, the cause of the towers fall. He is at times minimized to simply being a wise old wizard and advisor to King Arthur. In others again, a Baptismal Bard on par with Talesian in welsh lore. A being half human and half fae or in more dogmatically Christian leaning times a child of an incubus or a devil, intended to be the anti-christ, but baptized at birth and thus taken from Satan's grasp. They are all right and they are all wrong. Thats what makes a Legend a Legend and thats what makes EQII lore, Lore. Well thats my story at least, and I am sticking to it"While its nice to think otherwise, our characters, while great heroes or villans, are not the prime movers of Norrath. As such we are left sifting through the legends and lore the same as everyone else would be. We are going to, at times, find things that contradict one another, thats the nature of Legends and thats wht Norrath is all about.

Shemyaza

02-04-2008, 05:40 PM

i'd rather they just decided it was either official lore or wasn't. cherry-picking parts will only make the whole of eq lore more of a mess than it already is. that's not even mentioning the fact that if the eq1 devs ignore it then it questions the validity of all eq2 lore.

Maergoth

02-04-2008, 06:05 PM

Convenience isn't necessarily correct.. it scares me somewhat when even the most fanatical of fans would rather have their steak tasteless and tender rather than delicious and tough..I've always loved EQ for the latter, I'm not looking forward to that changing. It can be official lore without cherry-picking.. some things are easily noticeable as consistent, some things.. not so much.. but that doesn't mean it goes out the window just because there are bridges to be built between the two.

troodon

02-04-2008, 06:35 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>Convenience isn't necessarily correct.. it scares me somewhat when even the most fanatical of fans would rather have their steak tasteless and tender rather than delicious and tough..</blockquote>C'mon, you know that's far from the truth. I don't want Norrath to have less lore or less interesting lore in it. The fact is that SOE made some games in which the developers chose gameplay and setting over consistency with established lore. Look at Lords of Everquest, a game which said that Erudites were around and Iksar were running around Tunaria before the fall of Takish'Hiz and the Elddar Empire. No one comes onto these forums and says that there might be a little bit of truth to that, why should EQoA be treated any better? They're both about equally related to EverQuest and its sequel (EverQuest 2), I don't see any reason for preference.I understand where EQoA vets are coming from. If I had played that game I would probably agree with them, because I would have an emotional attachment to the game and I would have a problem with simply abandoning that. All the same, there are major problems with EQoA's place in the timeline and it's simpler and less absurdity-inducing to just ignore it.

Maergoth

02-04-2008, 06:48 PM

There's a smidge of difference between amount of lore and quality of lore.. EQOA is a prequel, EQ2 is a sequel, aside from that.. no claims were ever made that the other games lore should be considered in the least. We're sticking with the trilogy here.There are very few things that can't be explained between the 3 games.. some of them take some stretches, but all of them have explanations. Whether or not the real explanations are given to us or not, that should not mean it is to be tossed aside and ignored.I have never played EQOA.

troodon

02-04-2008, 07:01 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite><blockquote>There's a smidge of difference between amount of lore and quality of lore.. EQOA is a prequel, EQ2 is a sequel, aside from that.. no claims were ever made that the other games lore should be considered in the least. We're sticking with the trilogy here.</blockquote>Why isn't Lords of EverQuest considered a prequel and who ever said there was a trilogy?...

Maergoth

02-04-2008, 07:13 PM

I haven't played it to assess their claims or timing.. but no LoEQ lore has ever really tied into the actual game from what I've seen.. I've never seen anything tagged as originating in LoEQ.. I'd need someone who's played it before I can respond to that.Somehow the case is different for EQOA, but that alone makes me think that LoEQ really hasn't contributed to lore as much as it's taken guesses at it.. like the lore team wasn't even working together with them <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Cusashorn

02-04-2008, 07:47 PM

Lords of Everquest and Champions of Norrath arn't part of the EQ MMO timelines.

Gisallo

02-04-2008, 10:18 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lords of Everquest and Champions of Norrath arn't part of the EQ MMO timelines.</blockquote>Even if they were you have to take context into the equation. How many times in our history have ancient peoples (or even today's people in the holy land) tried to make claims "we were here first" using some logic to explain why they aren't there now, or try to shoe string their lineage to another completely unrelated in order to justify some claim. If an Erudite in LoEQ said his people were running around before the Eldar Empire you could easily say that this was a motive for the statement.In the games we are RARELY, if ever, getting the Lore from a Book written by the Norrathian version of Thucidies or Josephus, but rather characters with agendas. When you use this lense I think it eliminates at least half of the "inconsistencies" as being in game spin doctored or revisionist history.

troodon

02-04-2008, 10:38 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lords of Everquest and Champions of Norrath arn't part of the EQ MMO timelines.</blockquote>.... and EQoA is?They're all video games. They're all released by the same company. They all claim to take place in the same universe. Why are the single player games tossed aside? If an EQoA defender is to be intellecually honest they should defend the inclusion of these games in canon as well.

troodon

02-04-2008, 10:42 PM

<cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Even if they were you have to take context into the equation. How many times in our history have ancient peoples (or even today's people in the holy land) tried to make claims "we were here first" using some logic to explain why they aren't there now, or try to shoe string their lineage to another completely unrelated in order to justify some claim. If an Erudite in LoEQ said his people were running around before the Eldar Empire you could easily say that this was a motive for the statement.In the games we are RARELY, if ever, getting the Lore from a Book written by the Norrathian version of Thucidies or Josephus, but rather characters with agendas. When you use this lense I think it eliminates at least half of the "inconsistencies" as being in game spin doctored or revisionist history. </blockquote>These games aren't stories or histories, you're sitting there actually observing things happening in the world.

Cusashorn

02-04-2008, 11:04 PM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lords of Everquest and Champions of Norrath arn't part of the EQ MMO timelines.</blockquote>.... and EQoA is?They're all video games. They're all released by the same company. They all claim to take place in the same universe. Why are the single player games tossed aside? If an EQoA defender is to be intellecually honest they should defend the inclusion of these games in canon as well.</blockquote>For one: LoEQ takes place 10,000 years before EQlive, yet claims that all the current existing races and thier cities have existed long before that. Why arn't there great legends and myths of the heroes that exist in LoEQ referenced in the MMOs?2. Champions of Norrath has locations that DONT EXIST in EQOA, EQlive, EQ2, or thier Pen & Paper counterparts. You're gonna have to refresh my memory on the story of Firiona Vie getting captured by Innoruuk, and the brave adventurer who traveled to the Plane of Hate to free imprisoned souls from a fate into fiery pits of lava.

troodon

02-05-2008, 12:34 AM

<cite>aCusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>For one: LoEQ takes place 10,000 years before EQlive, yet claims that all the current existing races and thier cities have existed long before that. Why arn't there great legends and myths of the heroes that exist in LoEQ referenced in the MMOs? 2. Champions of Norrath has locations that DONT EXIST in EQOA, EQlive, EQ2, or thier Pen & Paper counterparts. You're gonna have to refresh my memory on the story of Firiona Vie getting captured by Innoruuk, and the brave adventurer who traveled to the Plane of Hate to free imprisoned souls from a fate into fiery pits of lava.</blockquote>For one: EQoA takes place 500 years before EQlive which would put the fall of Takish'Hiz within the lifetime of every single race on Faydwer and yet not only does no one in the game ever speak of it but residents of Norrath during the Age of Turmoil were until SoL under the mistaken impression that the Combine spires were built by the Combine Empire even though the Combine Empire arose after the fall of Takish'Hiz (and therefore even more within living memory of Norrath's inhabitants). 2. <strike>Champions of Norrath</strike> EQoA has locations that DONT EXIST in <strike>EQOA</strike>, CoN, EQlive, EQ2, or thier Pen & Paper counterparts. You're gonna have to refresh my memory on the story of <strike>Firiona Vie getting captured by Innoruuk</strike> Mistmoore waking up in some tomb on Tunaria, and how <strike>brave adventurer who traveled to the Plane of Hate to free imprisoned souls from a fate into fiery pits of lava</strike> Qeynos managed to have only 4 monarchs in the 500 years that separate EQoA from EQ1

teddyboy4

02-05-2008, 01:19 AM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote>".... and EQoA is?They're all video games. They're all released by the same company. They all claim to take place in the same universe. Why are the single player games tossed aside? If an EQoA defender is to be intellecually honest they should defend the inclusion of these games in canon as well."</blockquote>Wrong. The reason that EQoA and EQ2 are different, and separate from LoEQ or Champions of Norrath is quite simple. EQoA and EQ2 were touted specifically as prequel and sequel respectively, EQoA taking place 500 years before, and EQ2 taking place 500 years after. The other games, as far as I know, were never touted as such, or even being directly related to EQ exceot for taking place in the same universe and sharing similar races and some places.Also, I understand that some things in the "trilogy" (as a poster above put it, which does make sense) don't line-up exactly to everyones liking, but whether or not they are canon is not for us to decide. As far as I am concerned, anything that was included in those three games IS canonical lore. It came from " the source" and was put there for a reason, whether or not the things put in the games retcons previously known things is irrelevant. Yes, it is painfully obvious that places such as Moradhim and Klik'anon existed in EQoA simply as a vessel to allow the inclusion of the Dwarves and Gnomes in the game by giving them a "home city", or base of operations on Tunaria, but in the end, does it really matter? In the original EQ, many of the cities, places, and people were probably created in a similar way, and for similar reasons, but does it matter? No. Their inclusion became canon simply b/c they were included, it doesn't matter whether they were mentioned before or after, they were included and therefore THEY ARE.

Cusashorn

02-05-2008, 01:24 AM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>aCusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>For one: LoEQ takes place 10,000 years before EQlive, yet claims that all the current existing races and thier cities have existed long before that. Why arn't there great legends and myths of the heroes that exist in LoEQ referenced in the MMOs? 2. Champions of Norrath has locations that DONT EXIST in EQOA, EQlive, EQ2, or thier Pen & Paper counterparts. You're gonna have to refresh my memory on the story of Firiona Vie getting captured by Innoruuk, and the brave adventurer who traveled to the Plane of Hate to free imprisoned souls from a fate into fiery pits of lava.</blockquote>For one: EQoA takes place 500 years before EQlive which would put the fall of Takish'Hiz within the lifetime of every single race on Faydwer and yet not only does no one in the game ever speak of it but residents of Norrath during the Age of Turmoil were until SoL under the mistaken impression that the Combine spires were built by the Combine Empire even though the Combine Empire arose after the fall of Takish'Hiz (and therefore even more within living memory of Norrath's inhabitants). 2. <strike>Champions of Norrath</strike> EQoA has locations that DONT EXIST in <strike>EQOA</strike>, CoN, EQlive, EQ2, or thier Pen & Paper counterparts. You're gonna have to refresh my memory on the story of <strike>Firiona Vie getting captured by Innoruuk</strike> Mistmoore waking up in some tomb on Tunaria, and how <strike>brave adventurer who traveled to the Plane of Hate to free imprisoned souls from a fate into fiery pits of lava</strike> Qeynos managed to have only 4 monarchs in the 500 years that separate EQoA from EQ1</blockquote>Thats right, Troodon. Avoid answering my questions by trying to justify your own.

troodon

02-05-2008, 01:42 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Thats right, Troodon. Avoid answering my questions by trying to justify your own.</blockquote>lol, I apologize, I obviously haven't been clear enough about what point I'm trying to argue. I'm not arguing that LoE (or CoN for that matter) should be looked at as valid sources for lore; I'm only arguing that EQoA should be treated in the same manner. That purpose is absolutely served by showing (as I did) that the same sort of questions that can be leveled against LoE and CoN can be directed instead at EQoA.I always address the problems others point out regarding my posts, surely you've learned that by now Cusa <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

troodon

02-05-2008, 01:46 AM

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Wrong. The reason that EQoA and EQ2 are different, and separate from LoEQ or Champions of Norrath is quite simple. EQoA and EQ2 were touted specifically as prequel and sequel respectively, EQoA taking place 500 years before, and EQ2 taking place 500 years after. The other games, as far as I know, were never touted as such, or even being directly related to EQ exceot for taking place in the same universe and sharing similar races and some places.</blockquote>I'm open to this being the case, if you have any evidence to defend your allegation (advertisements or public releases for example) I'd love to see it.<blockquote>No. Their inclusion became canon simply b/c they were included, it doesn't matter whether they were mentioned before or after, they were included and therefore THEY ARE.</blockquote>Then why aren't the inclusion of facts found in other EverQuest games (mentioned previously in the thread) considered "canon simply b/c they were included"?

Cusashorn

02-05-2008, 02:03 AM

Well, I'm sorry I approached you with that kind of tone in my message.Anyways, there are discrepancies that prevent CoN from being part of the timeline. The most obvious one being the geographic locations. CoN contains the "Pit of Ill Omen", which is described as a big-*** Sea encased entirely inside Kunark. Not a lake, but a sea expanding for hundreds of miles with vampire castles, mermaids, Proon, Droon, and Broon, and no sign of iksar activity anywhere.When it comes down to it, nothing can be considered official until the developers say it is, or a specific subject or area is mentioned in EQlive or EQ2 itself.

troodon

02-05-2008, 02:09 AM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Anyways, there are discrepancies that prevent CoN from being part of the timeline. The most obvious one being the geographic locations. CoN contains the "Pit of Ill Omen", which is described as a big-*** Sea encased entirely inside Kunark. Not a lake, but a sea expanding for hundreds of miles with vampire castles, mermaids, Proon, Droon, and Broon, and no sign of iksar activity anywhere.</blockquote>Well, realistically Ill Omen is hundreds of miles across. Kunark is a continent, and Ill Omen takes up a huge chunk of it. I don't know what the technical definition of a 'sea' is but it may actually be one. Given the size of the lake it's probably reasonable to assume that EQ1 and 2 weren't able to portray all of its inhabitants or all of the structures along its shores.That's not an argument for CoN being valid lore, just saying that part is probably not necessarily inconsistent with EQ1.<blockquote>When it comes down to it, nothing can be considered official until the developers say it is, or a specific subject or area is mentioned in EQlive or EQ2 itself.</blockquote>I concur 100%

teddyboy4

02-05-2008, 03:10 AM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Wrong. The reason that EQoA and EQ2 are different, and separate from LoEQ or Champions of Norrath is quite simple. EQoA and EQ2 were touted specifically as prequel and sequel respectively, EQoA taking place 500 years before, and EQ2 taking place 500 years after. The other games, as far as I know, were never touted as such, or even being directly related to EQ exceot for taking place in the same universe and sharing similar races and some places.</blockquote>I'm open to this being the case, if you have any evidence to defend your allegation (advertisements or public releases for example) I'd love to see it.</blockquote> Here's a link to the <a href="http://eqoa-fanclub.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=FAQ" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">EQoA FAQ</a>, where it states:What's the premise? What's the story like?EverQuest Online Adventures: Frontiers takes place during the Age of Adventure, a time set approximately five centuries before the original EverQuest for the PC. Return to Norrath's past, when the city of Freeport was newly formed and the elves have yet to abandon their ancient homeland completely.<blockquote><blockquote>No. Their inclusion became canon simply b/c they were included, it doesn't matter whether they were mentioned before or after, they were included and therefore THEY ARE.</blockquote>Then why aren't the inclusion of facts found in other EverQuest games (mentioned previously in the thread) considered "canon simply b/c they were included"?</blockquote> The direction I was trying to go with that (and as I touched on in the lines above what you quoted), from time to time the lore and storyline need to be retconed and/or updated. EQoA was made after EQ was originally developed, and EQ2 was made after both of them so what is included in these games should be considered updates I guess. And these updates/retcons that are made can not always be changed in the other works, most likely b/c of the devs workload and scheduling. It's like we always hear, the devs don't have time to do everything they'd like and they have to weigh the "importance" of each and every thing that they do, so it's understandable IMO that some of the new things we learn and discover aren't always reflected in the other game(s) b/c the development is ongoing. There always needs to be a stream of "new" content to keep the players/customers happy, so what it probably comes down to is a question of management. Picture all the devs at a meeting, and they're discussing what they want to accomplish, or develop next, they ask themselves "do we want to keep churning out new content or do we want to go back and change stuff that has been done for a long time?"....

Ama

02-05-2008, 10:45 AM

What's the premise? What's the story like?EverQuest Online Adventures: Frontiers takes place during the Age of Adventure, a time set approximately five centuries before the original EverQuest for the PC. Return to Norrath's past, when the city of Freeport was newly formed and the elves have yet to abandon their ancient homeland completely.Unfortunately even though that is the case in the FAQ it is hard to believe for some. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the skeptisim comes in with the life span of elves and the city of Takish'Hiz. However I also believe there are some named mobs in there that bring some skeptisim with them. Opala *sp* the named gnoll in Splitpaw is one of them who supposedly had her paw severed by a human creating a great rift between the two people. Truely though one piece of lore i'm interested in is if developers try to resurrect Lord Chardith. When you go to destroy him he is supposedly an inter-dimensional being that is coming to our world to destroy it. You have to gather several gems to forceably summon him then destroy him. It is with this act that you are deamed a true adventurer by your master and are givin your epic weapon. *Misses his precious staff with antlers from a great elk from the plane of growth*

Rezikai

02-05-2008, 12:28 PM

Truely though one piece of lore i'm interested in is if developers try to resurrect Lord Chardith<div align="center"><hr /></div>Ah old Lord Chardith deep inside the ruins of Takish'Hiz we fought him for our epic. I remember gathering my guildmates and I as we attacked and set about killing him. Heh.. i decided to go visit it again a few nights ago.. and there are more NPC's from the Dead walking around as the regular TeirDal looters... but i digress. I think that to call all of EQoA lore cannon, is... a bit arrogant, some of it simply doesnt fit in well such as the Lycanthropy events, but the grand druid Wegadas that spawned it and his children do. Same as much of the Lore we know is also in possible contradiction due to each game(s) own teams creating it.. and putting things in for dramatic flare for their own customers at that time. With that said... I don't question that some of EQoA's lore will be held as cannon but not all of it, as well as EQLive, ... yes i said it, I wont consider all of EQLive's lore cannon either, I agree some parts are well documented and are cannon lore here, but only Vhalen will make the determination on what is considered lore of Everquest, and if he decides parts of EQlive must be put on the chopping block as parts of EQoA need to be.. then so be it, even the lore removed as cannon from EQlive happened before the plane of time event that starts the timesplit I'll accept it. History is subjective especially one thats a fantasy world made up from a VanHalen fan.. heh.One piece of old EQoA lore i wish we had... was Siliskor. Cusa has often talked about Venekor and how he goes rogue against Draconic law and attacks other Dragons. If i remember correctly both dragon factions had set laws to each other. Siliskor however was an enigma, not entirely a rogue dragon as Venekor is with his actions.Siliskor was a dragon that was raised by powerfull mages who worshiped the egg from which he hatched, thery were draconic ritualists in the southern Karana's. They had been around after the elddar age and the battles between the elves and dragon kind took place and they had gotten ahold of an unhatched dragon egg. It took them years if not generations if I remember right to hatch the egg, then slowly raised it teaching it of arcane powers to try and bend the adolescent dragon to do their bidding. Siliskor however played along, the quest NPC's states that he was never a coherent mind, not being raised by the powers of Draconic teachers his mind was shattered, more as a lunatic, who barely kept his mind within the realm of reality. It was later when Siliskor began to mature that he decided he was done being bred for others as a tool and slaughtered the ritualists that raised him.<img src="http://www.freewebs.com/tunarianoutcast/nullSiliskor.jpg" border="0" alt="" width="648" height="457" />In EQoA he was quest spawned in the Elephants graveyard, where it is said he goes to meditate from the voices ravaging his mind, and it was there we fought him many times.

Kander

02-05-2008, 01:37 PM

<cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite>I always thought of EQOA like a storybook.. a recollection of sorts.. some of it will be true, and some will be misconstrued, like all history has been.I really like this statement! This is exactly how I used it...somewhere! Not tellin! /runs

troodon

02-05-2008, 03:51 PM

<cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Wrong. The reason that EQoA and EQ2 are different, and separate from LoEQ or Champions of Norrath is quite simple. EQoA and EQ2 were touted specifically as prequel and sequel respectively, EQoA taking place 500 years before, and EQ2 taking place 500 years after. The other games, as far as I know, were never touted as such, or even being directly related to EQ exceot for taking place in the same universe and sharing similar races and some places.</blockquote>I'm open to this being the case, if you have any evidence to defend your allegation (advertisements or public releases for example) I'd love to see it.</blockquote> Here's a link to the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eqoa-fanclub.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=FAQ" target="_blank">EQoA FAQ</a>, where it states:What's the premise? What's the story like?EverQuest Online Adventures: Frontiers takes place during the Age of Adventure, a time set approximately five centuries before the original EverQuest for the PC. Return to Norrath's past, when the city of Freeport was newly formed and the elves have yet to abandon their ancient homeland completely.</blockquote>That is not "tout[ing] specifically as a prequel" as you claimed, that is simply placing it within the context of Norrath's history; just like was done with CoN and LoE. They didn't call them Champions of Norrath and Lords of EverQuest because they were totally unrelated and took place in different universes, they did it because they too supposedly happened in Norrath's timeline before the Age of Destiny. If you're going to include lore from one and not the others you should have some legitimate reason for the preference, this FAQ quote doesn't supply that. See on the CoN <a href="http://championsofnorrath.station.sony.com/overview.jsp" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">website</a>:"-Engrossing fantasy storyline set several hundred years before the current EverQuest PC game-players do not need to be familiar with EQ lore to enjoy the game"It says the exact same thing.<blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>No. Their inclusion became canon simply b/c they were included, it doesn't matter whether they were mentioned before or after, they were included and therefore THEY ARE.</blockquote>Then why aren't the inclusion of facts found in other EverQuest games (mentioned previously in the thread) considered "canon simply b/c they were included"?</blockquote> The direction I was trying to go with that (and as I touched on in the lines above what you quoted), from time to time the lore and storyline need to be retconed and/or updated. EQoA was made after EQ was originally developed, and EQ2 was made after both of them so what is included in these games should be considered updates I guess. And these updates/retcons that are made can not always be changed in the other works, most likely b/c of the devs workload and scheduling. It's like we always hear, the devs don't have time to do everything they'd like and they have to weigh the "importance" of each and every thing that they do, so it's understandable IMO that some of the new things we learn and discover aren't always reflected in the other game(s) b/c the development is ongoing. There always needs to be a stream of "new" content to keep the players/customers happy, so what it probably comes down to is a question of management. Picture all the devs at a meeting, and they're discussing what they want to accomplish, or develop next, they ask themselves "do we want to keep churning out new content or do we want to go back and change stuff that has been done for a long time?"....</blockquote>Alright, so do you consider LoE and CoN to be a part of this new "updated" Norrathian content that needs to be accounted for? Because if you do then you have a fantastic job ahead of you sorting everything out.

Shemyaza

02-05-2008, 03:58 PM

<cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite>I always thought of EQOA like a storybook.. a recollection of sorts.. some of it will be true, and some will be misconstrued, like all history has been.I really like this statement! This is exactly how I used it...somewhere! Not tellin! /runs</blockquote>so what you are saying is you will use whatever you want, whenever you want, without regard for any inconsistancies it might contain? no matter how much you try and force eq:oa lore into eq2 lore, it doesn't change the fact that it just doesn't fit.please do your homework ... no, your job, check up on lore before you add stuff willy-nilly.lore-junkies are going to go through the epic quests in minute detail and post any [Removed for Content]/retcons you have had to force in to make them work. i can't wait.

Shemyaza

02-05-2008, 04:02 PM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote>They didn't call them Champions of Norrath and Lords of EverQuest because they were totally unrelated and took place in different universes, they did it because they too supposedly happened in Norrath's timeline before the Age of Destiny. </blockquote>in all honesty they probably called them that as it was easier to market a spin-off of an existing franchise. i haven't played CoN, but LoE is so far out of whack i'm tempted to put it all down to a bad LSD trip by M. Mistmoore.

troodon

02-05-2008, 04:11 PM

<cite>Shemyaza wrote:</cite> <blockquote>in all honesty they probably called them that as it was easier to market a spin-off of an existing franchise. i haven't played CoN, but LoE is so far out of whack i'm tempted to put it all down to a bad LSD trip by M. Mistmoore.</blockquote>Of course. And by the same token they set EQoA in the EverQuest universe for the same reason, to make it easier to market their spin-off into the brand new (and ultimately failed) franchise of consol MMORPGs.I want to make it clear that most of the stuff in EQoA, on its face, isn't a problem. The Elves certainly lost their city in Takish'Hiz and they could very well have built some cities up north called Telethin and Fayspire. The problem is the 500 year date, that is the only thing keeping most of the lore in the game from being logically consistent with that of the PC MMOs. There are some other problems, such as humans already existing in the Age of Blood, but most pertain to that 500 year date.

Vhalen

02-05-2008, 04:16 PM

When EQoA was being developed, I kept in contact with their initial design staff to help create some cohesion between the two projects. At the time I was working on the Unified Timeline that we currently use in the EQII universe. There were portions of the lore that were created for EQoA that I planned on referencing in the EQII universe. You may see reference to some of these in EQII lore. However, like all other projects outside of EQII, do not consider their lore canon in our universe.Being involved in various EQ projects in one way or another has allowed me to create a Unified Timeline. This timeline is comprised of major events portrayed in various EQ projects. Although the greater portion of the timeline notes EQ and EQII events, there are a few other events taken from a other projects. To craft such a timeline I had to make some changes in history so that everything fits where it needs to fit to tell the story of EQII. There are also events that could not fit within our universe so they were omitted. With the help of Jindrack and the rest of the design staff in EQII, this Unified Timeline is still growing. It will eventually map the uncharted depths of history and record the footsteps of our destiny.

Sapphirius

02-05-2008, 04:24 PM

Anyway we could like, ummmm, get a sneak preview of this "unified timeline"? Puhleeeeeease? Pretty please with a cherry on top?<---adores timelines

troodon

02-05-2008, 04:30 PM

<hr /> Thank you, Vhalen, for clearing that up. Sapphirius is right, a little peek at that timeline would be pretty cool

Maergoth

02-05-2008, 06:06 PM

As my final contribution to this thread, I'd like to make a simple statement..The only thing people need to keep in mind is that they are striving to make consistency between the games.. Using EQOA lore to justify an EQ2 question is not taboo, as it's been clearly stated. EQOA might not be 100%, but the only one who can be sure of which parts are usable as explanation is Vhalen himself.I really hope this thread stops the whole "That's not stated in EQ2, so it can't be true" ideal.. and hopefully some older threads can be revisited and reconsidered with the possibility that some of these controversial ideas may be a little more correct than previously thought.. or at least considered as a possibility rather than ignored.

Apocroph

02-05-2008, 06:08 PM

I'd like to remind you guys that the sequel to Champions of Norrath includes both a Vah Shir and an Iksar as playable characters.That pretty easily excludes them both from happening before EQlive.Edit: Grammar error.

Rijacki

02-05-2008, 06:40 PM

<cite>Shemyaza wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kander wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Maergoth wrote:</cite>I always thought of EQOA like a storybook.. a recollection of sorts.. some of it will be true, and some will be misconstrued, like all history has been.I really like this statement! This is exactly how I used it...somewhere! Not tellin! /runs</blockquote>so what you are saying is you will use whatever you want, whenever you want, without regard for any inconsistancies it might contain? no matter how much you try and force eq:oa lore into eq2 lore, it doesn't change the fact that it just doesn't fit.please do your homework ... no, your job, check up on lore before you add stuff willy-nilly.lore-junkies are going to go through the epic quests in minute detail and post any [Removed for Content]/retcons you have had to force in to make them work. i can't wait.</blockquote>You must really hate Earth history and Earth lore then... but you have no game designer to blame for all the complete and utter inconsistencies all over the place.Lore, including REAL history from Earth, is like a group of blind men examining an elephant without ever knowing what one is. To one it will feel like a long leathery snake that has hairs growing out of it. To another it will feel like a skinny snake that moves a lot and flicks about. To another it will feel like a leathery flap. To another it will feel like an unmovable wall. And so on. None of them would be wrong, but each of them would 'see' it from a completely different angle.REAL history is like that. There are perceptions about events in the past. For an example, read a book written in the Victorian era about a place or event that happened some time between 900 CE and 1500 CE. One that is complete with illustrations would be best. Next, read a book written in the 70s about the same place or event, preferably with some photos and illustrations and with primary source material (information gleaned at the actual location and not just referencing earlier written works). Lastly, read a book written more recently about the exact same place and/or event also with primary source material and preferably with photos and maybe even digital X-ray evidence. The same exact events and/or places will be described radically differently. The illustrations, conclusions, etc will be very different not only because of time and more evidence uncovered in other places but also because of the perceptions and knowledge of the people writing at the time. None of the contradictions would be -wrong- taken in context but the accounts will still differ radically.

Gukkor2

02-05-2008, 06:41 PM

Well, not necessarily. The Vah Shir existed long before they were transported to Luclin. They were the ruling caste of the Kerra. It's conceivable that at some point before the Erudite civil war, there may have been Vah Shir adventurers who left the walls of old Shar Vahl to explore Norrath.EDIT: Was referring to Kuraan, sorry for not clarifying that.

Shemyaza

02-05-2008, 06:42 PM

<cite>Vhalen wrote:</cite><blockquote>When EQoA was being developed, I kept in contact with their initial design staff to help create some cohesion between the two projects. At the time I was working on the Unified Timeline that we currently use in the EQII universe. There were portions of the lore that were created for EQoA that I planned on referencing in the EQII universe. You may see reference to some of these in EQII lore. However, like all other projects outside of EQII, do not consider their lore canon in our universe.Being involved in various EQ projects in one way or another has allowed me to create a Unified Timeline. This timeline is comprised of major events portrayed in various EQ projects. Although the greater portion of the timeline notes EQ and EQII events, there are a few other events taken from a other projects. To craft such a timeline I had to make some changes in history so that everything fits where it needs to fit to tell the story of EQII. There are also events that could not fit within our universe so they were omitted. With the help of Jindrack and the rest of the design staff in EQII, this Unified Timeline is still growing. It will eventually map the uncharted depths of history and record the footsteps of our destiny.</blockquote>i can respect that it's quite a job trying to juggle the lore in the various eq games, but what you posted above just seems downright sloppy. you seem to suggest both that eq:oa lore is part of the eq2 timeline and at the same time it isn't. i don't expect you to divulge this unified timeline, but can you at least tell us what parts of eq:oa you don't consider part of eq2 lore.oh, and can i safely just ignore everything that happened in LoE? <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />edit: typed LoN instead of LoE. corrected now.

Shemyaza

02-05-2008, 06:47 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote>You must really hate Earth history and Earth lore then... but you have no game designer to blame for all the complete and utter inconsistencies all over the place.Lore, including REAL history from Earth, is like a group of blind men examining an elephant without ever knowing what one is. To one it will feel like a long leathery snake that has hairs growing out of it. To another it will feel like a skinny snake that moves a lot and flicks about. To another it will feel like a leathery flap. To another it will feel like an unmovable wall. And so on. None of them would be wrong, but each of them would 'see' it from a completely different angle.REAL history is like that. There are perceptions about events in the past. For an example, read a book written in the Victorian era about a place or event that happened some time between 900 CE and 1500 CE. One that is complete with illustrations would be best. Next, read a book written in the 70s about the same place or event, preferably with some photos and illustrations and with primary source material (information gleaned at the actual location and not just referencing earlier written works). Lastly, read a book written more recently about the exact same place and/or event also with primary source material and preferably with photos and maybe even digital X-ray evidence. The same exact events and/or places will be described radically differently. The illustrations, conclusions, etc will be very different not only because of time and more evidence uncovered in other places but also because of the perceptions and knowledge of the people writing at the time. None of the contradictions would be -wrong- taken in context but the accounts will still differ radically.</blockquote>umm... this is a game. someone had to sit down and plan this all out. someone had to sign off on the concept, ideas and where it fitted in with the other everquest games. someone wasn't careful enough. this isn't about differing pov's, it's about basic errors.

Apocroph

02-05-2008, 06:49 PM

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, not necessarily. The Vah Shir existed long before they were transported to Luclin. They were the ruling caste of the Kerra. It's conceivable that at some point before the Erudite civil war, there may have been Vah Shir adventurers who left the walls of old Shar Vahl to explore Norrath.EDIT: Was referring to Kuraan, sorry for not clarifying that.</blockquote>Awfully big stretch there... I'm reasonably certain they didn't take on the name Vah Shir until after the shifting. Think that was one of the things revealed about them with the Luclin lore setup.

Araxes

02-05-2008, 06:50 PM

Castle Lightwolf and Dark Solace were the opposing cities -- Dark Solace was formed out of a coven of necromancers, as I understand it. I've never seen a single reference to either of them in EQ2. I sure do like using them as heritage titles, though! <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Arianah

02-05-2008, 07:21 PM

<cite>kuraan wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'd like to remind you guys that the sequel to Champions of Norrath includes both a Vah Shir and an Iksar as playable characters.That pretty easily excludes them both from happening before EQlive.Edit: Grammar error.</blockquote>No it doesn't. Just because the Vah Shir and Iksar were "discovered" in later expansions, doesn't mean that's when they first came into existence.EDIT: Never mind, I think I get what you mean here. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well, not necessarily. The Vah Shir existed long before they were transported to Luclin. They were the ruling caste of the Kerra. It's conceivable that at some point before the Erudite civil war, there may have been Vah Shir adventurers who left the walls of old Shar Vahl to explore Norrath.EDIT: Was referring to Kuraan, sorry for not clarifying that.</blockquote>The Vah Shir didn't "evolve" from being Kerran until they moved to Luclin (they lived in a more dangerous environment, so had to become tougher to survive there). Until then it was just a family name (iirc) of the chief Kerran. And I'm pretty sure Shar Vahl did not exist until it's development on Luclin.

vladsamier

02-05-2008, 08:02 PM

It's good that I can finally put my EQOA knowledge to use ^.^BTW... Lionwere Level 60 Blood Path Liches for the win!

Gnobrin

02-05-2008, 08:07 PM

Just to let ya know...EQOA's been part of the Norrathian line but the histories are a little "blendy" at the time being. Originally, EQOA was 500 years from EQ and then EQ was 500 years from EQII. Of course, things have been introduced since then (The whole lycanthropy introduction to EQOA, the Drakkin for EQ) that doesn't presently have a tie to the other games, but some things DO bleed over from game to game. Most of the lore does carry over, and there's some solid lines from game to game if you seek them.<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />~Gnobrin!

Josgar

02-05-2008, 08:07 PM

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to let ya know...EQOA's been part of the Norrathian line but the histories are a little "blendy" at the time being. Originally, EQOA was 500 years from EQ and then EQ was 500 years from EQII. Of course, things have been introduced since then (The whole lycanthropy introduction to EQOA, the Drakkin for EQ) that doesn't presently have a tie to the other games, but some things DO bleed over from game to game. Most of the lore does carry over, and there's some solid lines from game to game if you seek them.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />~Gnobrin!</blockquote>Oh magic Gnobrin, will we ever see fayspire?

Pyrrhx

02-05-2008, 08:46 PM

Pyrrhx

02-05-2008, 08:49 PM

<cite>Rezikai@Najena wrote:</cite><blockquote>Truely though one piece of lore i'm interested in is if developers try to resurrect Lord Chardith<div align="center"><hr /></div>Ah old Lord Chardith deep inside the ruins of Takish'Hiz we fought him for our epic. I remember gathering my guildmates and I as we attacked and set about killing him. Heh.. i decided to go visit it again a few nights ago.. and there are more NPC's from the Dead walking around as the regular TeirDal looters... but i digress.</blockquote>Meh... I'd rather see Parathior reborn as a result of gnomish miscalibration during their attempts to launch his remains to the moon.

Cusashorn

02-05-2008, 09:06 PM

<cite>Pyrrhx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to let ya know...EQOA's been part of the Norrathian line but the histories are a little "blendy" at the time being. Originally, EQOA was 500 years from EQ and then EQ was 500 years from EQII. Of course, things have been introduced since then (The whole lycanthropy introduction to EQOA, the Drakkin for EQ) that doesn't presently have a tie to the other games, but some things DO bleed over from game to game. Most of the lore does carry over, and there's some solid lines from game to game if you seek them.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">~Gnobrin!</blockquote>Oh magic Gnobrin, will we ever see fayspire?</blockquote>Maybe not, but I feel we'll certainly see an incarnation of Highbourne.if we do see fayspires, it'll probably have been ravaged by the Greyvax, and have been completely frozen in time.</blockquote>Vhalen hinted a long long time ago (about 2 years ago) that Fayspire does exist, but it's a huge frozen tower deep in the northern seas of Everfrost. His cryptic message mentioned nothing of Elven design, or any other design. Just that the ONLY sailor to ever return alive from seeing it had lost his sanity long before he returned to civilization.

Jindrack

02-05-2008, 10:07 PM

<cite>Shemyaza wrote:</cite><blockquote>oh, and can i safely just ignore everything that happened in LoE? </blockquote>Yes. Let's just say it was a very vivid dream that Morell-Thule gave to a general during the Age of Turmoil. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Ama

02-05-2008, 10:38 PM

<cite>Josgar@Unrest wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just to let ya know...EQOA's been part of the Norrathian line but the histories are a little "blendy" at the time being. Originally, EQOA was 500 years from EQ and then EQ was 500 years from EQII. Of course, things have been introduced since then (The whole lycanthropy introduction to EQOA, the Drakkin for EQ) that doesn't presently have a tie to the other games, but some things DO bleed over from game to game. Most of the lore does carry over, and there's some solid lines from game to game if you seek them.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />">~Gnobrin!</blockquote>Oh magic Gnobrin, will we ever see fayspire?</blockquote>If you go back there were alot of things talked about in a <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=187161" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">previous </a>post in the history and lore forum here. As for the fayspire well lets just say something was said. Vhalen-"Norrathians have returned from the treacherous seas in the northern territories of the Shattered Lands. With them came wondrous tales of sights never seen One of these tales is said to be a glint of light in a deep frozen atoll. The chill of that fills the bowl formed by the steep cliffs of the atoll makes visibility nearly impossible, yet, a ship dared to brave the mist. What they found was deadly to say the least. Only one sailor made it back, the same cannot be said for his sanity. He ended up in the padded cells of the Freeport Infirmary and Asylum. He told a tale of a glint of light shining in the mist. His captain forced the ship into the thick white fog and onward to this glint. They found a frozen tower, an elven tower. This tower seemed to offer no access, but apparently it did withstand a powerful blast of cold wind. This blast froze the tower, made evident by the long thick icicles that stretch off to one side. The sailor said they found a breach within the icy armor of the tower. They all entered, but only one made it out. His mind gone, all he could mutter was the word, "Fayspire". How such a madman managed to sail that ship out of there is a mystery just like the frozen atoll that cannot be found on any map. "

Pyrrhx

02-05-2008, 11:38 PM

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Vhalen hinted a long long time ago (about 2 years ago) that Fayspire does exist, but it's a huge frozen tower deep in the northern seas of Everfrost. His cryptic message mentioned nothing of Elven design, or any other design. Just that the ONLY sailor to ever return alive from seeing it had lost his sanity long before he returned to civilization.</blockquote>Hence it's all the more likely that some hapless adventurer in his 23rd season released the Greyvax from his statuary prison causing a dramatic flash freeze of Winter's Deep and the twin Cities of Fayspires and Tethelin, thereby preventing any exodus of elves or elven knowledge from that region. ...as an afterthought, even if the freezing wasn't that climactic an exodus still would have been stifled by the Teir'dal presence to the East, (along lake nerius), the Orc presence to the South, and the impassable mountains to the North and West. That would explain why the last tunarian elves with a fading memory of a long dead empire* couldn't make it that extra 500yrs to pass on their history.*takish'hiz was already 70% buried - fayspires seemed more like the sole surviving "city" from the old empire and not necessarily a refugee point, as the presence of other elven ruins indicated that the Eldaar empire was composed of more than just Takish'Hiz. Pardon the tangent, but yea,... the 8-ball says: Fayspires will be found frozen solid, 90% submerged smack dab between Everfrost and Lavastorm.

Gukkor2

02-06-2008, 12:22 AM

Wait, I was under the impression Fayspires and Tethelin were far southeast of Everfrost Peaks, closer to the Desert of Ro and the Commonlands. Even with the Rending, how could it end up that far north?EDIT: Nevermind, looked it up and I'm way off. Wonder what made me think that, though...

Gisallo

02-06-2008, 12:13 PM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote>These games aren't stories or histories, you're sitting there actually observing things happening in the world.</blockquote>Unless you are playing a character who specifically existed during these times, its history, and it would be impossible using the current livespans etc. to have any character around that is older than EQ. Thats the point I am trying to make and I believe its how the Dev's are seeing the world. EQ, EQII, EQLive player characters etc are characters from the time periods of the games. It gives the Devs the flexibility to change things without having to be overly [Removed for Content] retentive about Lore, because I am sure the same writers are not on every project, and also the flexibility to not have to create TOO much detail in order to still have compelling back stories everytime they create something for a new platform.

Ama

02-06-2008, 12:46 PM

<cite>Gukkor2 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, I was under the impression Fayspires and Tethelin were far southeast of Everfrost Peaks, closer to the Desert of Ro and the Commonlands. Even with the Rending, how could it end up that far north?EDIT: Nevermind, looked it up and I'm way off. Wonder what made me think that, though...</blockquote>From what I saw in EQOA the Fayspire was just a bit aways from a little snowy village. Would have to crack open my EQOA map to see exactly what direction it was *Probably East since I think West was the Elf grounds for druids/rangers*. Wouldn't be surprised if the Fayspire was frozen over being shifted Northwards into the bitter cold. I can only imagine what happened to the inhabitants of that spire.

Shemyaza

02-06-2008, 05:05 PM

<cite>Jindrack wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shemyaza wrote:</cite><blockquote>oh, and can i safely just ignore everything that happened in LoE? </blockquote>Yes. Let's just say it was a very vivid dream that Morell-Thule gave to a general during the Age of Turmoil. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>well that's one small thing i don't have to worry about anymore... thank god.

teddyboy4

02-06-2008, 08:57 PM

<cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>troodon wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eandiil@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite> <blockquote>Wrong. The reason that EQoA and EQ2 are different, and separate from LoEQ or Champions of Norrath is quite simple. EQoA and EQ2 were touted specifically as prequel and sequel respectively, EQoA taking place 500 years before, and EQ2 taking place 500 years after. The other games, as far as I know, were never touted as such, or even being directly related to EQ exceot for taking place in the same universe and sharing similar races and some places.</blockquote>I'm open to this being the case, if you have any evidence to defend your allegation (advertisements or public releases for example) I'd love to see it.</blockquote> Here's a link to the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eqoa-fanclub.station.sony.com/content.jsp?page=FAQ" target="_blank">EQoA FAQ</a>, where it states:What's the premise? What's the story like?EverQuest Online Adventures: Frontiers takes place during the Age of Adventure, a time set approximately five centuries before the original EverQuest for the PC. Return to Norrath's past, when the city of Freeport was newly formed and the elves have yet to abandon their ancient homeland completely.</blockquote>That is not "tout[ing] specifically as a prequel" as you claimed, that is simply placing it within the context of Norrath's history; just like was done with CoN and LoE. They didn't call them Champions of Norrath and Lords of EverQuest because they were totally unrelated and took place in different universes, they did it because they too supposedly happened in Norrath's timeline before the Age of Destiny. If you're going to include lore from one and not the others you should have some legitimate reason for the preference, this FAQ quote doesn't supply that. See on the CoN <a rel="nofollow" href="http://championsofnorrath.station.sony.com/overview.jsp" target="_blank">website</a>:"-Engrossing fantasy storyline set several hundred years before the current EverQuest PC game-players do not need to be familiar with EQ lore to enjoy the game"It says the exact same thing.</blockquote> Wrong again, but this time it was my fault, that link from the FAQ wasn't precise enough. EQoA was indeed presented as a sequel, not only by it's references in the EQ-timeline, but also by the developers, and SOE themselves. I was a beta tester for EQoA and Frontiers, and here is part of the official <a rel="nofollow" href="http://nwn.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10077&newsid=14206" target="_blank">press release</a> from when EQoA went gold:EVERQUEST(r) ONLINE ADVENTURES(tm) FOR THE PLAYSTATION(r)2 COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM GOES GOLD -Prequel to Hugely-Popular Massively Multiplayer Online PC Game EverQuest Brings the Unique Fantasy Universe of EverQuest to a PlayStation 2 Near You- So....yes, it was indeed touted as a prequel by SOE. And, even though, as Vhalen pointed out, everything from EQoA should not be considered canon, some of it should be.As for EQ2 being a direct sequel, it seems that SOE never used the word sequel, they touted it as a "follow-up" to EQ (which is, IMO, synonymous w/ sequel). So, even though SOE isn't calling EQ2 a sequel, I think it's pretty obvious that it is, indeed, a sequel to the original. I think originally the devs wanted to take a different direction and not have direct ties and the worlds to be so similar, they took a turn in that direction b/c it seems to be what a lot of players, myself included, wanted. <blockquote><blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>atter whether they were mentioned before or after, they were included and therefore THEY ARE.</blockquote>Then why aren't the inclusion of facts found in other EverQuest games (mentioned previously in the thread) considered "canon simply b/c they were included"?</blockquote> The direction I was trying to go with that (and as I touched on in the lines above what you quoted), from time to time the lore and storyline need to be retconed and/or updated. EQoA was made after EQ was originally developed, and EQ2 was made after both of them so what is included in these games should be considered updates I guess. And these updates/retcons that are made can not always be changed in the other works, most likely b/c of the devs workload and scheduling. It's like we always hear, the devs don't have time to do everything they'd like and they have to weigh the "importance" of each and every thing that they do, so it's understandable IMO that some of the new things we learn and discover aren't always reflected in the other game(s) b/c the development is ongoing. There always needs to be a stream of "new" content to keep the players/customers happy, so what it probably comes down to is a question of management. Picture all the devs at a meeting, and they're discussing what they want to accomplish, or develop next, they ask themselves "do we want to keep churning out new content or do we want to go back and change stuff that has been done for a long time?"....</blockquote>Alright, so do you consider LoE and CoN to be a part of this new "updated" Norrathian content that needs to be accounted for? Because if you do then you have a fantastic job ahead of you sorting everything out.</blockquote>No, I do not consider the other games part of the 3 as they were never said to be placed specifically in the timeline, only in the universe. Which, as you see, is MUCH different from what EQoA, was touted as.