Maybe I don't understand the Rending and Shattering or lifespan of characters.

[Gimet]

<p>Rending and Shattering- Spanned a total of 15 years was it?</p><p>Time of EQ2- 500 years after the rending and shattering correct?</p><p>However you slice it...it doesn't make sense for some NPC's to recall their life before either of them happened. I can understand and Elf saying it...because even in other stories Elves live forever. But honestly, A human, dwarf, or gnome recalling this far back? I've seen plenty of NPC's saying "I remember" and <insert some time before the shattering>.</p><p>Perhaps I don't understand how long each race lives...is there any specification of how long the races of Norrath live?</p>

[Mirander_1]

Lets see if I can't clarify a few things:EQ2 happens 500 years after EQ1the Shattering (Luclin's destruction) happened 15 years agothe Rending happened 100-200 years ago.Elves can live to around 800 years, while Dwarves and Gnomes can also see several centuries, I think it's about 300 (although there is a couple references to some that are even older).

[Drager]

i think that is about right i dont know about the life spans though would be nice to see some info on this

[Themaginator]

<cite>Enlocke@Vox wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Rending and Shattering- Spanned a total of 15 years was it? <span style="color: #ff0000;">Wrong, That shattering was instantaneous and happened about 15 years ago (the shattering was when Luclin exploded) and the rending happened about 100-200 years ago and that is wear the lands were torn apart.   I'm not sure how long it lasted but i think it was for a while.  It was just a bunch of horrid natural disasters earthquakes etc etc.</span></p><p>Time of EQ2- 500 years after the rending and shattering correct? <span style="color: #ff0000;">No EQ2 is 500 years after everquest 1 counting from right after planes of power</span></p><p>However you slice it...it doesn't make sense for some NPC's to recall their life before either of them happened. I can understand and Elf saying it...because even in other stories Elves live forever. But honestly, A human, dwarf, or gnome recalling this far back? I've seen plenty of NPC's saying "I remember" and <insert some time before the shattering>.<span style="color: #ff0000;"> Anyone 15 years and older can say they remember before the shattering.  The rending would be remembered by a few less races (dwarves would actually be one that could remember, they live pretty long) and a very few would remember The Age of War or Age of Turmoil (Aftermath of EQ1 and, the actual time during EQ1)  Those people are rare because of all the wars and death between EQ1 and now. Oh and its also worth noting that in Norrath elves dont live forever they live around 850 years, with dark elves living like 980 or something.  Its all in the official EQ Pen and Paper books</span></p><p>Perhaps I don't understand how long each race lives...is there any specification of how long the races of Norrath live?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">Fixed for ya! =D</span></p></blockquote>

[Arianah]

The life span of the races was actually mentioned in a post not that long ago, I bookmarked it because I figured it was good info for roleplaying <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=186940" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=186940</a>

[Cusashorn]

<p>Here's the only thing you need to know:</p><p>Until the developers state the lifespans of a race, don't believe anything you hear about them. There are numerous Dark Elves, High Elves, and Wood Elves who were alive back in EQlive and are still in EQ2. They have lifespans of up to 800 or so years, so it's only right to see some of them still alive.</p><p>According to the Pen and Paper game, Halflings shouldn't live for much longer than about 200 years at most, yet Squire Fuzzmin is still alive after 500, as is Fiddy Bobick. I doubt the whole "Possessed by Shadow Men" thing would work on Fiddy either.</p><p>Some in-game storys claim that the great erudite Miragul lived for 3000 or so years before he ever first thought about using necromancy to extend his life further.</p>

[Arianah]

Well there's always the exception and special few who live longer than the standard for most others.Just because Joe Bob and Sally lived to be 100, doesn't mean that Jake can't live to be 150.Bilbo Baggins from LoTR lived much longer than most hobbits tend to live. As did Golem...

[Cusashorn]

<p>Going from 100 to 130 in Bilbo's case is acceptable. It's reasonable. It's believable.</p><p>Going from 200 to 500+ is just too much.</p>

[Piratejoe]

<p>In the World of Norrath you have too remember theirs some very powerful magic out their that could probably make people live along time. You would expect this too be rare and only hero's, the lucky few, or Nobles too have access too these items/magic. The rest of the commoners would die according too whats normal too their race while the special few might live on several lifetimes. </p>

[Gisallo]

<p>Just a little nit picky but most of the sources put the Rending at 200-300 years ago.  Still puts various races being able to remember it, but also puts it just far back enough that only the longest living of the races (Elves etc) can do so, to make it "history" for the most part rather than "within living memory."  </p><p>just go to the main threads on here and you'll find the "Age of Destiny Time Line"  Since the devs made that an unbumpable thread I am guessing it has their blessing (even though I raised some ill informed issues with it, until I found the pen and paper rules life spans see below for that)</p><p>As for the life spans, true the dev's haven't put anything out yet, but in the absence of contradictory info, the ones from the EQ pen and paper are the best we have for character creation.</p>

[Moltove]

Sorry, double post

[Moltove]

<cite>Somebody Else @ Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p> <span>I found this on another site. Supposedly gotten out of the EQ2 Role-players book. It's probably the only actual printed lore we've got with regards to race ages, how tall they generally are and their weight ranges. Barbarian. </span> Min Height: 72in (6ft) Max Height: 94in (7ft10) Min Weight: 164lbs Max Weight: 352lbs Middle Age: 35, Old Age: 50, Venerable Age: 70, Maximum Age: 106 <span>Dark Elf. </span> Min Height: 56in (4ft<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> Max Height: 66in (5ft6) Min Weight: 87lbs Max Weight: 157lbs Middle Age: 200, Old Age: 280, Venerable Age: 360, Maximum Age: 660 <span>Dwarf. </span> Min Height: 47in (3ft11) Max Height: 53in (4ft7) Min Weight: 124lbs Max Weight: 216lbs Middle Age: 125, Old Age: 175, Venerable Age: 250, Maximum Age: 450 <span>Erudite. </span> Min Height: 64in (5ft4) Max Height: 82in (6ft<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> Min Weight: 94lbs Max Weight: 250lbs Middle Age: 45, Old Age: 70, Venerable Age: 90, Maximum Age: 138 <span>Froglok.</span> Min Height: 45in (3ft9) Max Height: 51in (4ft3) Min Weight: 59lbs Max Weight: 151lbs Middle Age: 30, Old Age: 40, Venerable Age: 55, Maximum Age: 75 <span>Gnome.</span> Min Height: 37in (3ft1) Max Height: 43in (3ft9) Min Weight: 51lbs Max Weight: 66lbs Middle Age: 100, Old Age: 150, Venerable Age: 200, Maximum Age: 500 <span>Half Elf. </span> Min Height: 58in (4ft10) Max Height: 76in (6ft4) Min Weight: 102lbs Max Weight: 220lbs Middle Age: 55, Old Age: 90, Venerable Age: 110, Maximum Age: 190 <span>Halfling. </span> Min Height: 33in (2ft9) Max Height: 38in (3ft2) Min Weight: 36lbs Max Weight: 53lbs Middle Age: 50, Old Age: 75, Venerable Age: 100, Maximum Age: 220 <span>High Elf. </span> Min Height: 57in (4ft9) Max Height: 67in (5ft7) Min Weight: 86lbs Max Weight: 157lbs Middle Age: 250, Old Age: 350, Venerable Age: 450, Maximum Age: 650 <span>Human. </span> Min Height: 60in (5ft) Max Height: 78in (6ft6) Min Weight: 124lbs Max Weight: 280lbs Middle Age: 40, Old Age: 60, Venerable Age: 75, Maximum Age: 135 <span>Iksar. </span> Min Height: 60in (5ft) Max Height: 78in (6ft6) Min Weight: 124lbs Max Weight: 280lbs Middle Age: 50, Old Age: 75, Venerable Age: 100, Maximum Age: 140 <span>Kerra.</span> Min Height: 60in (5ft) Max Height: 78in (6ft6) Min Weight: 124lbs Max Weight: 280lbs Middle Age: 35, Old Age: 60, Venerable Age: 80, Maximum Age: 120 <span>Ogre. </span> Min Height: 88in (7ft4) Max Height: 110in (9ft4) Min Weight: 284lbs Max Weight: 664lbs Middle Age: 30, Old Age: 45, Venerable Age: 60, Maximum Age: 80 <span>Ratonga.</span> Min Height: 47in (3ft11) Max Height: 53in (4ft5) Min Weight: 52lbs Max Weight: 82lbs Middle Age: 70, Old Age: 110, Venerable Age: 140, Maximum Age: 220 <span>Troll. </span> Min Height: 86in (7ft2) Max Height: 108in (9ft2) Min Weight: 274lbs Max Weight: 654lbs Middle Age: 35, Old Age: 50, Venerable Age: 65, Maximum Age: 89 <span>Wood Elf. </span> Min Height: 55in (4ft7) Max Height: 65in (5ft5) Min Weight: 87lbs Max Weight: 157lbs Middle Age: 210, Old Age: 300, Venerable Age: 375, Maximum Age: 575 <span>some thoughts on the many changes in race ages:</span> With those who played the original EverQuest, the table top RPG for the original EverQuest and EverQuest Online Adventures, the various inconsistancies between the racial charts and actual in game models from those things have been brought up several times. There is always the question of "Was this intentional" or "Did the EQ2 dev team not bother looking at their own lore/history". While not an official explination, I've thought up a medium as to why there are such stark differencees, and how these age tables possibly might not directly affect characters who existed in EQ1. ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Of course the most obvious change was that to the racial lifespans; in the prior EverQuest games and table tops, characters lived signifigantly longer on the whole, specifically the elven races. There are anywhere from 50 years to several hundred years difference in the maximum ages between the two games. The theory I've come up with on that is basically how human aging has changed over the years, in reverse. Back in the Age of Turmoil, beings existed longer naturally. The idea is that people were born quite a bit healthier than they are now, and also had better living conditions than they do now - that little trip to the planes from time to time was good for the age as it put you near the primordial powers that made those generations what they were. As time passed, while those born during the AoT to probably shortly after the Rallosian War (War of Defiance, circa 200 years after the EQ1 expansion Planes of Power and 300 years prior to EQ2's setting) remained the long lived beings they were innately, the physiology of those on Norrath began to change. As the planes became more and more distant, and as the world was ripped apart by cataclysm after cataclysm forcing the quality of life down, the longevity of being born into the world began to receed. Now that there is a re-established quality of life (that is signifigantly lower than before) for the world that is not changing drastically, the current age table is the final result of this basically de-evolution. Its been fairly well established that aside from the Shattering roughly 14 years ago, the world has been as it is for roughly 100 - 150 years. Most beings encountered in the world - PC and NPC - follow the guidelines present by this age table, though there are still those around from before the War that remain long lived naturally (without items or innervention to make them thus). One particular player brought up the height changes of a few elven races. While Teir`Dal and Feir`Dal are only slightly shorter than they were in EQ1, Koada`Dal are drastically shorter than they once were, as they once towered over Humans in game. Half elfs, largely, have remained the same size, though humans are slightly taller than what I recall from the original tables - the Humane heritage now provides there height where once it was the elven. The idea I have behind that factor is this - the elves have collectively been uprooted from their natural enviroments, forced to live in tightly packed cities; while Neriak and Felwithe were quite populated, they never saw the kind of crowding that is occuring in Longshadow and Castleview. This cramped spacing has cause a sort of genetic attempt to cope with the tight quarters - thus elves becoming shorter on the whole. Human cities, Erudite cities and the like have always been over crowded and really wouldn't change much as time passed. Elves, however, being tied so much to Nature, the planes and Magic, have experienced a dramatic cut off from their lifestyles and took it harsher on the whole. While these are just some basic ideas to explain why there is such a vast difference, again I emphasize that these are not official explinations - they're just a merger of the information from the entire EverQuest universe, to help explain the dramatic differences.</p></blockquote>A friend of mine has this up on his guild site. Very useful, and offers some explination

[Cusashorn]

^ Just remember, unless the devs say it applies, then it's not really canon with the game itself.

[Eriol]

Ya, Pen 'n Paper RPG stuff relies on there being maximum ages, but the EQ2 (and EQ1) lore STRONGLY suggests that Elves don't HAVE maximum ages, and in fact live forever.

[Zarafein]

<p>Actually the lore rather suggest they don't just have indeed a maximum age, but also aging effects, two examples: 1.ayenden the high elf apears in 2 eq2 stories, in the first he alredy seems old, but in the second(eof) he appears like an really old man not far away from his end days imo, or Teren Ryisis is old altough he was just a guard in eq1"Even by Koada'Dal standards Teren is quite old." he also uses the old sounding erudite voice set and greying hair(lenya thex in eq2 and tearis thex in eq1 have white hair).</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ya, Pen 'n Paper RPG stuff relies on there being maximum ages, but the EQ2 (and EQ1) lore STRONGLY suggests that Elves don't HAVE maximum ages, and in fact live forever.</blockquote>What? Where? Never once have I ever heard of any hint that elves are immortal.

[Sylaz]

I think another thing we have to remember here is that with all the magical energies (even latent ones just hanging around certain places) it's really not that hard to come up with a reasonable way that someone's life could be extended. I mean, just quickly I could thing that perhaps due to service to a god they give you gift on increased youthfulness. Or perhaps as a cleric channeling all that healing magic has a side effect of stalling the aging process? Or maybe, as a powerful wizard your body starts to become a mix between arcane energies and flesh and bone, to the point that as long as you can maintain the energy, your life is extended?At any rate, with all the undead, liches, ghosts, resurrections, illusions, etc. I wouldn't trust anyones given age unless specifically stated by someone who was there to see them born, or you know, the devs.

[Gisallo]

<cite>Moltove@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Somebody Else @ Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span>I found this on another site. <b>Supposedly</b> gotten out of the EQ2 Role-players book. It's probably the only actual printed lore we've got with regards to race ages, how tall they generally are and their weight ranges.... </span>There is always the question of "Was this intentional" or "Did the EQ2 dev team not bother looking at their own lore/history". ..... ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ Of course the most obvious change was that to the racial lifespans; in the prior EverQuest games and table tops, characters lived signifigantly longer on the whole, specifically the elven races. There are anywhere from 50 years to several hundred years difference in the maximum ages between the two games. </p></blockquote>A friend of mine has this up on his guild site. Very useful, and offers some explination</blockquote><p>This post I think illustrates a number of things (not yours Moltove but the original poster).  First it sorta contradicts itself.  You have to remember that MOST of the books out there are not written by the developers.  A perfect example is the Primagames stuff I still have floating around from EQ.  Thats a division of Random house who gets some stuff from SOE and then when they have to fills in the blanks.  I noticed that often when Random House has to fill in the blanks for fantasy games they tend to go running home to AD&D.  The ages given above don't wash that well because you will run into NORMAL (non-special npc's that may have access to magic and the like) Feir'Dal who recall the elves going off to Qeynos to fight the Rallosian's and even the War of the Fay, walking around Kelethin.  I think the best life span stuff we have to go on now, even though it has no "papal" blessing from the devs is the ones from the original pen and paper game noted in the link prior in the thread.  Maybe the dev's will come along later and say something more definitive but for the moment its the only thing that comes close to explaining som npcs.</p><p>There is then the issue of size (not really necessary to this thread but interesting, its why I use SOGA models for my elves).  The time of EQ is actually within the life span, potentially, of the EQII Koada'dal so how would they suddenly shrink?  I think this was largely a simple correction on the part of the dev's, trying to say "okay, all of the elves have the same basic origin, from Tunare' (with Innoruk monkeying around for the Teir) so we need to make the model's more consistent.  The two games are seperate to an extent so its time for more suspension of disbelief and tell ourselves the Koada'Dal weren't taller than they are now <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> especially taking into account the fact that Faydwer is back and so the Longshadow and Castleview hamlet cramped quarters has no relation to those in Kelethin.  It appears this post was written pre-EoF, especially in regards to saying Elves took it harder being related so closely to nature.  Tunare and her new children the Fae are alive and well in Gisallo's home of Kelethin.  You want taller, just go SOGA <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>     </p>

[Gisallo]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Eriol wrote:</cite><blockquote>Ya, Pen 'n Paper RPG stuff relies on there being maximum ages, but the EQ2 (and EQ1) lore STRONGLY suggests that Elves don't HAVE maximum ages, and in fact live forever.</blockquote>What? Where? Never once have I ever heard of any hint that elves are immortal.</blockquote>I thought that for a brief time too, but then I looked at the timeline that appears to have the dev's blessing and the pen and paper age rules together.  Its possible to be a Feir'Dal that was alive during the War of the Fay (hence Gisallo not being suspicious when he runs into the Faydark Champions while on the Raincaller HQ) using the pen and paper rules and they are the shortest lived of the three "pure" elf races.  Perhaps Eriol has run into one, but I have yet to run into a Feir or Koada'Dal that is older than say 600 years (war of the Fay 400-500 years ago).  The one thing that does appear to be the case (with maybe 1 exception noted above), is that elves don't seem to physically age.   It looks like elves, when they die of old age, are as vital on the day that Tunare calls them Home as they were when they reached adult hood.  This doesn't mean they live forever, only that their life cycle is somehow different.  One day they just sorta "stop".

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Gisallo@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Moltove@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite> <p>There is then the issue of size (not really necessary to this thread but interesting, its why I use SOGA models for my elves).  The time of EQ is actually within the life span, potentially, of the EQII Koada'dal so how would they suddenly shrink?  I think this was largely a simple correction on the part of the dev's, trying to say "okay, all of the elves have the same basic origin, from Tunare' (with Innoruk monkeying around for the Teir) so we need to make the model's more consistent.  The two games are seperate to an extent so its time for more suspension of disbelief and tell ourselves the Koada'Dal weren't taller than they are now <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> especially taking into account the fact that Faydwer is back and so the Longshadow and Castleview hamlet cramped quarters has no relation to those in Kelethin.  It appears this post was written pre-EoF, especially in regards to saying Elves took it harder being related so closely to nature.  Tunare and her new children the Fae are alive and well in Gisallo's home of Kelethin.  You want taller, just go SOGA <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p><p>     </p></blockquote><p>High elves are still 6 feet tall as they were in EQlive. Wood elves, Half elves, and Dark elves are still 5 feet tall as they were in EQlive.</p><p>Gnomes are still 3 feet tall as they were in EQlive. Frogloks, Dwarves, and Halflings are still 4 feet tall as they were in EQlive. Ogres are still 10 feet tall as they were in EQlive. Kerra and Barbarians are still 7 feet tall.</p><p>Trolls... ehh. They were 8 feet tall in EQlive, but the slider allows them to be almost as tall as ogres now.</p><p>Erudites, Iksar and Humans were and still are 6 feet tall. If you want to explain a size difference, then explain how the iksar in Rillis are 12 feet tall on Kunark.</p>

[Moltove]

Well, I posted that information in hopes it could help -some-, but I guess not, lol.I'm finding all this information interesting, but what I find the most interesting, too, is that the Devs can't say too much on this (yet). I'd love to hear what they would have to say, though.So...if an elf were to have memory of the War of the Fay...he'd be pretty old...With that being 500+ years ago, on top of the number of "years" EQ2 has been released...Having a definite guideline would be immensely helpful, as sources can either say your char is venerable, or still youthful as ever. Though, I'm guessing that the age no matter what for that elf could not be younger than "middle-aged" by human standards. Which brings up a point, a less common feature; Would it still be an ethical issue if say, Senior Elfio is 567 (let's pretend that's middle aged for now) and he meet's Miss Half Elf, a young half elf who is literally 19 (or would that young mean she's still technically a child to most?**). It seems a lot of ladies like to rp their char young like this, but...would it be right if she hooked up with the Elf who Looked 19, but should be middle-aged by human standards, because their true age is 567? Of course, this is only one of many scenarios, so just throwing it out there.**Would an Elf who is 18, 19...even 25 look those ages to a human? To me, what I've noticed was that most people would just age their elf normally, as if it were human, and then right when they get to their desired age, they stop the physical aging process, but still continue their age. (helpful hint: multiply your desired age  by the number of years you've been playing EQ to get your rp age! =D) This sounds great as the magic could imbue them to keep their favourite age, and to physically age them slowly. But also, wouldn't it make sense if the Elves took longer to develope physically? so maybe at 25, they're still short little children, and round abouts 50, they're teens, then 75-100 they look, and are developed as a 20-25 year old human. They have a longer life span, and it would seem that they would need to have more time to develop. The former idea just sounds like the lazy man's way of rp, even if it -is- correct. I hate it when people have to cover a rp detail, or explain something by saying "The magic did it..."Which also brings up the other point, though unrelated, of people who go a bit too far to say their character's BA. There's not much to say about this, though, as I'm sure most of you get the point. Please add some creativity. Just cause you got a BA spell, doesn't mean you can't use it proportionately. This goes with age as well. Nobody want's to hear, "I'mma 1337 lich! I can live 4evaaaah! Oh, and can eat you and your Ogre friend, and can never die...cause I'mma lich...a nd live 4evaaaa!"(heh, using lich as an example...this is of course exaggerated.

[Moltove]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Trolls... ehh. They were 8 feet tall in EQlive, but the slider allows them to be almost as tall as ogres now.</blockquote>But! Pre-Luclin they were much more hideous and FAT! *sigh* I miss that model...so cute. They should somehow sneak that in, like /cutemode

[Drager]

may be Highlanderish butdo you every think there could be immortals im sure there could be. would add an interesting premise to the gamei think there are plenty of ways to explain an increased life span i think magic can have a large roll in how long you live the thing is with magic increasing your life i doubt your body will be able to handle that amount of time so either A. you steal peoples bodies as you age B. you some how create a shell to hold your spirit in C. you become more magic than man and just go with not actually living or D. you are or become immortali dont think we can base any life spans in EQ2 from EQ is think this because of all the happenings in between the two games. we just dont know how all of these events affected the races the gods leaving could have shortened life spans or lengthened them. also shreading existance in two might have caused some unwanted side effectsi think the oldest npc in the game is in Antonica and is a High elf (i might be wrong about this)         

[Mary the Prophetess]

<p>Perhaps the seeming reluctance of the designers to provide definitive racial age/height/weights is a wise thing.</p><p>As it is, players are free to accept, reject, or modify as they see fit, those charts listed in the PnP version.  If the designers were to either validate or repudiate those charts they would be constraining players who do not like being constrained, not to mention possibly undercutting a game that someone has invested an enormous amount of time, energy and money into trying to market to the EQ Player community.</p><p>Even though there are no formal or informal agreements between one game or another, (that I know of), I DO see a certain degree of 'professional courtesy' (from all sides), when it comes to including lore that may be be in direct contradiction to that of one of the other games.  It does happen of course, as it is bound to do, but it is suprisingly minimal.</p><p>Indeed, I see a definate effort to actually include lore across games where it is possible to do so.</p><p>It is a lore minefield, to be sure, but one I think all the developers of all the games subscribe to (whether by design or not), and for that I raise a toast to all involved.</p><p>In short, I believe that the PnP charts are all we are likely to see, and that any variances from that can be attributed to special cases, or individual player preferences.</p>

[Gisallo]

<cite>Moltove@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>So...if an elf were to have memory of the War of the Fay...he'd be pretty old...With that being 500+ years ago, on top of the number of "years" EQ2 has been released...Having a definite guideline would be immensely helpful, as sources can either say your char is venerable, or still youthful as ever. Though, I'm guessing that the age no matter what for that elf could not be younger than "middle-aged" by human standards. Which brings up a point, a less common feature; Would it still be an ethical issue if say, Senior Elfio is 567 (let's pretend that's middle aged for now) and he meet's Miss Half Elf, a young half elf who is literally 19 (or would that young mean she's still technically a child to most?**). It seems a lot of ladies like to rp their char young like this, but...would it be right if she hooked up with the Elf who Looked 19, but should be middle-aged by human standards, because their true age is 567? Of course, this is only one of many scenarios, so just throwing it out there.</blockquote><p>As for the first bit, thats why for my characters at least I go with the Pen and Paper rules.  For my main, Gisallo, a BIG part of his story had to do with tracking his parent's fate as they left Faydwer shortly before the rending.  Age and lifespan were important and I wouldn't have been able to do it without the PnP rules when tied with the Timeline.</p><p>As for the second I am having an intersting roleplaying scenario because of that kind of age difference.  Not romance, but rather as a "mentor" of sorts.  Gisallo is a 200+ year old lvl 64 Ranger (he spent almost 2 centuries being a "lay about" for various back story issues).  There is a lvl 80 Fury Ayr'Dal in the guild who is chronologically only in her late teens.  While she is more powerful, Gisallo is sort of being a mentor on what it means to have faith in Tunare (he sees Kelethin's Feir'Dal Rangers as the "Paladins" of Tunare)  and simply how to work that faith into everyday life without being overly dogmatic.  Her back story is really complicated with much of her childhood being sheltered and raised by Marrians, and as Fury she is just coming to terms with the fact that being a Fury means more than just throwing spells, but actually being a member of a clergy of sorts and having the responsibilities that come with it.  He is trying to guide her down the more "druidic" path so she does not back step into the more regimented manners of a Marrian Templar.  So while young by Feir'Dal standards (700 odd year lifespan per PnP), he is the relatively wise old man to the Fury's young and naive, though more powerful, lady.  When you sit down and REALLY think of the completely different perspective a long lifespan can have, its kinda amazing.    </p><p>I agree with Mary in that it certainly is good that they leave certain things open ended.  But I think lifespan is one of those things they should fill in, even if only a little, so that people who are really into the roleplaying aspect of the game, can "sort" of match up, even if its only to say "(insert race here)  live for decades... a century... centuries... millenia... forever; unless struck down by violence, disease or melancoly" what ever...</p><p>I totally agree with the other stuff being off a little, as Mary says though.  In "days of high adventure" many places, people and events will become Legend.  Legends change with the telling, grow in grandure or fade with time, get confused and even lost.  The fact that lore contradicts itself sort of expands on this.  You have in the real world tales of Merlin.  He is mad man made so by the horrors of war and thus given the gift of prophesy in some early stories.  In others a mythical "man without a father" whose coming was foretold and whose blood need to be sprinkled on the ground where a tower could not be built without it falling, and instead saw with his "sight" the two dragons that fought beneath the ground, the cause of the towers fall.  He is at times minimized to simply being a wise old wizard and advisor to King Arthur.  In others again, a Baptismal Bard on par with Talesian in welsh lore.   A being half human and half fae or in more dogmatically Christian leaning times a child of an incubus or a devil, intended to be the anti-christ, but baptized at birth and thus taken from Satan's grasp.  They are all right and they are all wrong.  Thats what makes a Legend a Legend and thats what makes EQII lore, Lore.  Well thats my story at least, and I am sticking to it <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</p>