What is SOE's policy on Griefing?

[Lavenderboi]

<p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff33cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I know player's feelings range widely regarding this subject.  Some feel "It's completely dishonorable" and would disband from a group that participated in it, while others say "This is a PVP server and as such, I kill everyone I can, regardless of /recent status".  This will be an eternal debate and I understand both sides.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff33cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">A group of oranges killing the same green solo player over and over and over leaves a bad taste in my mouth.  But at the same time, killing a player repeatedly a few times, because he happens to be a real jerk, feels justified.  Then, there is the case where my group kills an enemy, gets fame, then another player joins my group, and I kill the same enemy again, so the new guy gets the fame.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff33cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">As for me personally, I very, very, rarely grief, but I HAVE done it, when (in my mind), it feels justified.  But that being said, what DO you do, when enemies stand at the revive point, killing you over and over?  You cannot always find people willing to come help kill the griefers.  My only option is to accept utter defeat. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> The fact is, there are some players who will harass you to the point that you simply cannot play the game.  I just log in another toon for an hour or so, and hope they are gone when I come back. lol <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff33cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">But I was curious as to where SOE stands on this issue?  I've heard it's against the EULA but I've never bothered to read it, far too long, lol.  SOE DOES make it so that you do not get status, fame, drops, etc., from a recently killed player, which makes me think they are discouraging it, but at the same time, they have never taken any steps to prevent it.  I've heard players say they have reported players for griefing, but I've heard conflicting results as to the outcome.  Everything from "SOE said they will take care of it" to "SOE said they found no evidence of misconduct" while the vast majority, never hear back from SOE.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff33cc;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Ultimately, SOE has left the decision up to the player, which speaks volumes, but I still can't help but wonder if "officially", it's considered right or wrong?</span></p>

[-Arctura-]

(( A long time ago there was a 'play nice policy', It had general rules, but alot of grey areas.When PvP came along, I believe around that time they disolved the play nice policy, and it basically became 'find a PvP solution'. (NOT AN OFFICIAL SOE QUOTE)This is more of a general blanket statement, but basically if you are having trouble with something, bring more people in to kill that guy, etc.Griefing is sadly just a part of the game. Developers can work hard to DISCOURAGE it by adding game elements that deny griefers rewards, or even punish them, but such people usually find ways of exploiting a system to take advantage of it.Its all about balancing game elements to keep things mostly neutral, so people cant exploit features. If you go too far one way or another, its usually going to backfire somehow.

[Echgar]

<a href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16205" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">EverQuest II Rules and Policies Index</a>

[Lavenderboi]

<cite>Echgar wrote:</cite><blockquote><a rel="nofollow" href="http://help.station.sony.com/cgi-bin/soe.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=16205" target="_blank">EverQuest II Rules and Policies Index</a></blockquote><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff3366;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Under "Rules of Conduct", the number 1 point states: "You may not harass or threaten other players."  That's a very broad statement and quite subjective imo, but I think that's the general idea.  Basically, I think it boils down to this:  "If you feel you are being harassed, contact SOE with all the info, and either they will or will not agree."  If they do not agree, nothing happens.  If they do.......well, who knows what actually happens in that case, as SOE is notoriously closed mouthed, refusing to share very much information concerning particular topics.  So let me rephrase my question.  </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ff3366;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Does SOE equate "Griefing" with "Harassment"?</span></p>

[Gnobrin]

<p>Such a subject does go hand-in-hand, much of the time.  "Griefing" if the intentional action of causing trouble to another player, hence the very name it's called (grief).  Such issues are handled by Customer Service on a case by case basis, and if there's found to be a true case of harassment in <b><i><u>ANY</u></i></b> way, action's taken to resolve it.  That can mean warning for those causing issues for their first times or further actions for those that have chosen to take it upon themselves to be a repeat offender.</p><p><i>Do note though</i>, in <b>intentionally</b> choosing to be part of the <b><i><u>PVP</u></i></b> enviorment, you choose to take many issues of "griefing" as part of the deal, since it's <i>Player versus Player</i> content.  You're chosen to be placed into that arena, with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that you'll be attacked and possibly re-attacked from time to time.  Due to that differing content, CS may or may not intervene (TRUE harassment such as racist behavior or direct harassment will not be tolerated regardless of the server, though).  PVP is not for everyone, remember... some folks simply can't stand the heat.</p><p>Overall, if you feel that you're being harassed, <b><i><u>please</u></i></b> call upon Customer Service.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[Roald]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Such a subject does go hand-in-hand, much of the time.  "Griefing" if the intentional action of causing trouble to another player, hence the very name it's called (grief).  Such issues are handled by Customer Service on a case by case basis, and if there's found to be a true case of harassment in <b><i><u>ANY</u></i></b> way, action's taken to resolve it.  That can mean warning for those causing issues for their first times or further actions for those that have chosen to take it upon themselves to be a repeat offender.</p><p><i>Do note though</i>, in <b>intentionally</b> choosing to be part of the <b><i><u>PVP</u></i></b> enviorment, you choose to take many issues of "griefing" as part of the deal, since it's <i>Player versus Player</i> content.  You're chosen to be placed into that arena, with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that you'll be attacked and possibly re-attacked from time to time.  Due to that differing content, CS may or may not intervene (TRUE harassment such as racist behavior or direct harassment will not be tolerated regardless of the server, though).  PVP is not for everyone, remember... some folks simply can't stand the heat.</p><p>Overall, if you feel that you're being harassed, <b><i><u>please</u></i></b> call upon Customer Service.</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote>Wait,what? I thought the PvP forums were blocked from Dev responses <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now if you could just reply to some of the more important threads <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Lavenderboi]

<span style="color: #66cccc;"><span style="font-size: medium;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">I greatly appreciate the quick response and the clarification from both Echgar and Gnobrin.  Thanks guys!</span> </span><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[tass]

well there is no right or wrong. Its not like you could stop it without saying, ok you pay us to play on the server, but if you kill that guy to many times, we're giving you the boot. I mean hell that's just sales suicide. And you can't really stop it internally by making them un attack able because then the other guy would have a first strike advantage to stand their and cast ice nova or something.And if both parties couldn't attack each other then ud have the other guy preaching about how his play was being diminished for his pay.So the only thing you can do is say, hey, its pvp, so you better start running and then throw a deterant like no sp for a kill even though your just there to kill a person over and over and over sadly without the satisfaction of laughing at them because you can't listen to them call you a greifer in chat lol.

[Spyderbite]

<cite>tass wrote:</cite><blockquote>So the only thing you can do is say, hey, its pvp, so you better start running and then throw a deterant like no sp for a kill even though your just there to kill a person over and over and over sadly without the satisfaction of laughing at them because you can't listen to them call you a greifer in chat lol.</blockquote>Hehe... I agree.. and this is the perfect quote... [<i>Robin has been knocked down once by John Little</i>] <i><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000126/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Robin of Locksley</a></i>: Any suggestions? <i><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000151/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Azeem</a></i>: Get up. Move faster. <i><a href="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000126/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Robin of Locksley</a></i>: Move faster. Great idea.Seriously.. when somebody "tea bags" you or does something else that offends you like corpse humping.. and that's even a stretch cause you can always hit Revive... But, otherwise yah... run away.You can't be griefed unless you let somebody grief you. Standing your ground on principal is only going to be frustrating.

[Hawty]

<p>i personally think the pvp setup is imbalanced.  it punishes the person that's choosing to do some progression or pve to achieve advancement points or gain some gear, etc.   they lose the larger majority of their money they've earned, they lose durability and their place in their quest or camp, but most importantly they lose their time.  alot of people dont have endless amounts of time.</p><p>i realize you hardcores will have your own reasoning too, and you're allowed just as I am, but it is a game and it is supposed to be entertaining for everyone;  not just the teabagging, corpse-humping nobody.  i too like to pvp, solo and with friends, but it should be balanced and set in a way that can accomodate all users.</p>

[Zheen]

I haven't seen "tea-bagging" or "corpse humping" on Venekor ..since..since the kids left and went to Nagafen! (I kid I kid <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />)

[karnath]

<p>according to the Everquest 2 Kingdom of Sky  there was supposed to be a punishment for griefing... it was called a dishonorable kill.. and origonally it said:</p><p>any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged while the target was significantly hurt is considered a dishonorable kill. the results of a dishonorable kill are detrimental, and include a loss of faction with both your alignment and the opposing alignment. ( there was also a referral to the recent list at one time also)</p><p>I would like to see a real dishonorable kill rule set imposed... one like this :</p><p> dishonorable kill: any kill of the opposing alignment that was first engaged by the attacker to a target who was significantly hurt ( 1/2 or less hp) or on a recent list would result in: 2x loss of faction, 2x loss of fame/ infamy (reguardless of difference of titles) and 2x loss of status points.</p><p>i think this would really decrease griefing. </p>

[Bozidar]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait,what? I thought the PvP forums were blocked from Dev responses <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> Now if you could just reply to some of the more important threads <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>He's not a dev, just a red shirt.

[Roald]

<cite>Bozidar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait,what? I thought the PvP forums were blocked from Dev responses <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> Now if you could just reply to some of the more important threads <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>He's not a dev, just a red shirt.</blockquote>Bah, maybe my second sentence really was true <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zheen]

Be nice to the red shirt. He is the key master.

[Roald]

<cite>Cutter@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>Be nice to the red shirt. He is the key master. </blockquote>That he is my friend, that he is.

[niteowl53]

Here it is:"There is an in-game mechanic to deter harassment and griefing through repeated killing of the same character by not rewarding repeated player kills with the opportunity for maximum faction gain and by not having the defeated player spawn a chest with coin or item. This mechanic may be adjusted by Development at any time. While our standard harassment/abuse policies still apply (see link above) and will be strictly enforced by our Customer Service staff, <span style="color: #ccff00;">repeatedly killing another character is not considered harassment and will not be addressed by Customer Service staff.</span> Controlling an area through PvP combat and not allowing players of an opposing alignment to adventure there by repeatedly defeating them in PvP combat is not considered harassment and will not be addressed by Customer Service staff. <span style="color: #ccff00;">Should players find themselves in one of these situations, they should find a PvP solution to the situation.</span> The PvP solution is simple: Gather your friends, rally your troops to your cause, and go kill your enemy. This is after all Player vs. Player…"Reading through all the rules of conduct, and the separate rule set that is concerning PvP servers, this is a direct quote.Not saying I agree or disagree with it, just saying this is the way it is on a PvP server.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Thanks so much for this analysis.</p><p>Even SOE thinks it is pathetic that someone would contact Customer Support just because they are getting owned repeatedly by the same guy.  <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p><p><insert carebear photo here></p>

[moonchild1]

<p>If you are a Freep in Ant you are most likely going to get griefed.  Sorry Mr/Miss Evildoer.  Why not?  Freeps grief Q's all day long.  Especially loving to jump in while you are trying to manage some ^^^s.  </p><p>My latest favorites have been a pair of chuckleheads, 34 and 36, giving some "quality attention"  to my 29 in SH.  However, payback is a b..ear when some noob 36 Inq is trying my 29 Mystic Champ out in TS and not taking the hint that my non-mobile green health bar is far superior to his rainbow-hued, quickly-shrinking one.</p><p> Oh well, what can you do?  Cry over playing the game by the set rules.  Multiple kills are not in any way, shape, or form an exploit.  However, maybe add exp. to multiple kills, make the first one free.</p><p>As for the PVE set...WHAT THE H..ECK are you doing on a PVP server?  Ooooohhhhkaaaahhhy....  You see, there are <span style="color: #cc0000;">21 PVE SERVERS AND ONLY 3 PVP SERVERS.  GO TO ONE OF THE 21 PVE SERVERS IF YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR TOON TO BE AGGRESSED, ATTACKED, MAIMED AND DECEASED.</span></p>

[HerbertWalker]

<p>You don't get exp on kills of someone on /recent.  All day long I take out my frusteration of the system on noobs, by repeat killing until they log out.  All I do is grief people now.</p><p><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[UnderToad]

I've been taking my 12 ranger (my first ever pvp toon) into CL, Graveyard and Sunken City solo recently. I'm doing pretty well (6-0 or so) but I'm having a problem with seemingly only coming across the same few players over and over again. If I see someone new and they're not orange I take them on sight, but I can't bring myself to kill the same guy if I've killed them previously. I've compromised on going right up to them so they can see me and if they attack me I'll fight back but if they run away I'll let them off. I was quite surprised last night when I managed to grab someone new only to have a previous kill backshot me as soon as the other guy dropped. I got him too but again felt a bit bad. Can't help the feeling that I'm spoiling someones game. Still, I suppose it is a pvp server after all.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Pretty lame what T2 has become.   Slightly less lame than it was before, but still extremely lame, just in a much different atmosphere.</p><p>If I had a level 12, I would be repeat killing constantly.   Might as well repeat kill them until they leave, thus exerting your dominance over the zone.   Move to next zone, exert dominance.   Etc.    What else should one do with a level 12 character?   Just level him normally like I did with countless other characters?</p><p>With such a large world having seemingly limitless possibilities, people sure are quick to try to pigeon hole you down a certain course of action within this game - namely, the "level to end game" strategy of character building.</p><p>I say, dominate those noobs.   Repeat kill.   Make them retreat.   Make them band together in order to accomplish anything.</p><p>But I'm a T3-T5 guy, through and through.   I repeat kill a lot.   The purpose is mainly to keep my area clear.   I cannot have random enemies that I killed recently, hanging around an area I am hunting in.   They will join in when the next fight arrives.   Clear it, dominate it, guard it, kill all who enter... over and over if we must.</p><p>I have also repeat killed often so that the enemy would call in more backup, thus granting me more targets or at least some action.   This is always a deliberate demonstration of my in game power, simply to show off and have fun doing it.   It can keep the adrenaline factor going and really kick the game into high gear for when the fight arrives.  This is what people are calling griefing.   Repeat killing just to do it.  I disagree.   It's fighting the war.   It's how you own zones.   You own the zone when you clear it and can hold it for the evening.</p><p>But ya'll wouldn't understand, because you play for titles!    <b><u>You</u></b> won't kill a guy on /recent.   You <b><u>must</u></b> be all about the PvP Rewards and nothing about the Spirit of PvP.   If that sounds like you, then hahah on you for being a tool.</p>

[tass]

lol title seekers have mor honor than me. They look for fresh targets. Back on vangaurd (lol before everyone left the ffa server dead) I would go through the towns and slaughter lv 8's (min level to attack) and then Id laugh with glee as they called me a mother &%$^ sonofa %^&$% @$$ little ^$%%* peice of )(&*^% all day long. Id camp respawns, id camp gates, id camp raiding zones and grp zones, id wait until higher people or grps were fighting and then root em and blow their [Removed for Content] away.And then as a bonus, id get congratulated by some gm's sometimes when they called the whiners pansies.Now isn't that what pvp is all about?

[karnath]

<p>i have a new toon at lvl 16 and others ranging from lvl 23, 25 , 35 , and 60</p><p>i love to pvp and i do hang out in ant.. since none of my toons can track i go hang out near the towers.. best way i can find anyone to kill., however I have gotten to the point where a kill means little unless theres a challenge, so most of the time i will let greens go and even some blues.(if they are untitled, as i see em as not ready to present a challenge) but if they attack me , i will defend myself and kill  them. i love killing reds when i can and i usually try most solo reds within 10 lvls or so. i dont like to kill peeps over and over unless they attack me, or they comeback and hang around (as they are no doubt waiting on help) , then i will kill em again to prevent them from jumping in when someone comes aong and attacks.</p><p>as far as griefing, i dont believe in doing it, unless provoked to do so. most peeps will die and dont comeback through, some revive and contuniously come back ( and i imagine are on all lvl chats they can talk on calling for help to kill someone they cant kill, pitiful)</p><p>if i find someone that outright kills me i move on. dont care to group, i love to solo, and i do well at it. i cant be a pvp god, no one is, there is always someone out there that will beat you ( whether they are good or the right set of circumstances occur) i see it as part of the game.</p><p>i do mourn the days before the pvp exp, i loved getting 40 -50 solo kills in a day and not lvling 3 or 4 times, i didnt grief then either there were more peeps on lower toons then and more peeps pvping ( T3 is where im talking). now days i find it hard to get 3 kills in a night, although last sunday was pretty cool. i fought several peeps on 2 different toons i have in ant .</p><p>forgive any misspellings and grammer errors..... = ).      good hunting.</p><p>P.S. i dont care at all about endgame, u wont see me there , i have 12 chars most are t3 - t4 </p>