How often do you cast Involuntary Healer and Mark of Pawns/Princes etc?

[ExtremeFaji]

I'm trying to get a power efficient spell progression down that will maximize healing without casting spells that rarely justify the power used to cast them (currently I am at level 37). I know that the Amending Fate line is one that many templars cast in every battle where they know significant damage will be taken because it will always trigger when the MOB dies. Right now, I'm unsure of what I should be casting duting some battles between Amending Fate, Mark of Princes and Involuntary Healer. I would like to know if many templars use all three of these in most battles, or if they are more situational. When I've cast Princes and Involuntary on tanks I haven't seen their health go up much during fights so I'm thinking without AAs in them they aren't very effective right now. Thanks for your input!!! 

[Jevangal]

I would say get them on the mob as soon as possible, but you also have other priorities.It all depends on the situation.  For example, in a <80 group situation with a plate tank as MT, I might cast this sequence:single target reactive (so the tank's health remains high during the pull)stun (stops the mob hitting the tank and gives the group "free shots" at it)physical mitigation debuff (effectively increases the dps of the melee group members)markinvoluntary healerby which time the stun will have worn off, so it's "play it by ear" time from that point onwards.I would probably use that sequence for solo as well, depending on what I was fighting.Group make up also affects the choice: with a paladin in the group, mark becomes important because it lowers the mob's mitigation against divine damage, divine damage being the main paladin damage type.  So you are effectively increasing the paladin's dps.At level 80, we get a ward that I would always cast on the MT (or myself if I was soloing) before doing anything else.In a raid, my tactics would be very different.  For example, stun does not work against epics.So there is no ideal answer.  But as a rule of thumb, I tend to cast amending fate (and its upgrades) on down arrow mobs rather than involuntary healer, whereas I cast mark and involuntary on mobs that take a long time to kill.

[quasigenx]

On a raid last night, Involutary healer was the #1 spell on my parse, at 21% of total healing. I wasn't slacking either, I was #2 on the parse after the shaman. I group situations, it's a different ballgame. Those fights are so short.

[Jevangal]

I usually contribute around 20-25% of the healing per raid but I find my lotto heals are responsible for only about 15% of my total healing (when measuring actual hitpoints restored), glory doing about 10% and my reactives doing 50% or so.  What tier is your involuntary healer?

[quasigenx]

This is the T8 version, ad3. Oh, and this is a hard-hitting T8 raid mob (Overking). So pretty much every hit is 3k+, and the tank is constantly less than 100% health. That's a pretty ideal situation for this debuff to shine.I usually find for lottos: Involuntary >> Mark >> Glory

[quasigenx]

<cite>Jevangal@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>...my reactives doing 50% or so.</blockquote>I usually find Supplicant's prayer (the heal on the parse for both the single and group reactive) to be about 30% of my total healing, with Repent at 20% and Involuntary at 20%. The rest is Mark (10%), direct heals and assorted procs. I tend not to use Glory much.Also, I'm using Sheild of Faith much more in T8. On some zones, it's up to 15%. Depends if the mobs are casting arcane AEs.

[Kizee]

Raids keep them up all the time.Groups don't bother since stuff dies so quick.

[Jevangal]

Just to clarify: I usually refer to glory as the buff that triggers a group heal when a melee attack is made.  Which glory do you mean?

[Sirenta]

He meant just that Glory...It is a lottoheal (Proc)Remember that you will not see a difference in HP through our LottohealsOne just heals if the Mob hits its target (therefore lessens the Damage)the other gives a hot to someone who is hitting the mob.In Raidsituations, the more Melee the higher the Healparses.Amending fate is never used by me on Raids, if the mob hits the floor there is no need for a heal anymore.Just when fighting groups, this one becomes a winner.BTW, never found myself in a group, where i could buff Glory instead of our HP Single Buff.That would require a brigant, swashi or such to proc like hell.Mostly i buff HP for Nekros (Lifeburn), Defiler (Soulward) and Tanks.

[Jevangal]

<cite>Sirenta wrote:</cite><blockquote>He meant just that Glory...It is a lottoheal (Proc)Remember that you will not see a difference in HP through our LottohealsOne just heals if the Mob hits its target (therefore lessens the Damage)the other gives a hot to someone who is hitting the mob.In Raidsituations, the more Melee the higher the Healparses.Amending fate is never used by me on Raids, if the mob hits the floor there is no need for a heal anymore.Just when fighting groups, this one becomes a winner.BTW, never found myself in a group, where i could buff Glory instead of our HP Single Buff.That would require a brigant, swashi or such to proc like hell.Mostly i buff HP for Nekros (Lifeburn), Defiler (Soulward) and Tanks.</blockquote>I disagree on the Amending Fate issue - on a linked epic encounter, it becomes very important and it heals the whole of the group.  And if you are in somewhere like Deathtoll where mobs can spawn if somebody accidentally triggers a trap, you want the health back up to 100% asap just in case!  I want my group to be at 100% health all the time just in case something untoward happens.And can I just check what you mean by "we will not see a difference in HP" through our lotto heals?  I really do not understand what you mean by that.I've never tried the HP buff on a necro before (I'm always in the MT group these days anyway so the swashie will be dpsing like crazy), but it's an interesting tactic.  How much of a difference have you found it makes?

[Kizee]

<cite>Sirenta wrote:</cite><blockquote>Amending fate is never used by me on Raids, if the mob hits the floor there is no need for a heal anymore.</blockquote><p>I guess you never did any raid mobs that have adds that spawn constantly then. </p><p>I would use that spell all the time on avatars and basicly keep the whole group full for 85 power a cast. I would end avatar fights at full power before power management became a joke in this expansion with all the power proc items.</p>

[quasigenx]

<cite>Thryhllage@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I disagree on the Amending Fate issue - on a linked epic encounter, it becomes very important <b>and it heals the whole of the raid.</b>  </blockquote>Can anyone confirm? I thought it was group only.

[Kizee]

<cite>quasigenx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Thryhllage@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I disagree on the Amending Fate issue - on a linked epic encounter, it becomes very important <b>and it heals the whole of the raid.</b>  </blockquote>Can anyone confirm? I thought it was group only.</blockquote>It is group only.

[Jevangal]

Eek!  Typo when rushing the post - will correct it now /blushes<hr />

[Agnar D'Shar]

<p>I notice the OP is a level 37 templar. So group healing is their thing. Here is my take on the spells discussed:</p><p>Involuntary. Triggers when the mob hits someone. Therefore if the mob is not hitting anyone much, it is less effective. Assume your group is tackling yellow or orange con ^^^s. The mobs will hit your group a lot. Therefore this spell is quite effective. However at level 37 its highly likely the mob will not be hitting your group that much, as the content you tackle will typically be close to your groups level.</p><p>Mark. Kinda the opposite. Triggers when someone hits the mob. So if the mob is lower level than your group it will trigger more often. However on balance Mark only heals the person that hit the mob. If that person does not need healing, then the spell is ineffective.</p><p>In summary, I cast Mark and Involuntary only when the situation makes it likely that they will be effective. This is primarily a balance of the mobs level relative to you, how much you will hit it, and it hit you, and how much healing your non-tank group members really need.</p>

[Bodracoran]

<p>Any time the fight is going to last more then 30 seconds I will use them.</p><p>In raids and on a few of the group named encounters they will often make up the bulk of the healing I do. Especially with AOE's.</p><p>They are also very nice soloing heroics.</p><p>So yes, use the frequently</p>

[Csaj]

I am a 41 Templar so I am well aware of your current situation.I am and have been a fan of the Mark line for... ever. Despite the fact that it got me killed in raids because of the aggro it caused procing raid wide years ago.Templar's seemingly odd spells are situational. Unless grouped with a single target aggro master (Guardian) and fighting single large mobs don't precast intercession or the single target hit proc one.Unless grouped with a multiple target aggro master (Berzerker) and fighting groups of multiple mobs don't precast intercession or the single target hit proc one.If i'm grouped with 3 or more physical damage types armor break is my first spell. Mark my second. Single target hit proc third.If i'm grouped with 3 or more other magic casters (other healers count) Intercession (if not precast) is my first spell usually half cast at time of pull which is plenty of time for any tank worth their salt to keep aggro off you. Reason for this is casters are generally squishy and especially in Pick Up Groups casters tend to draw aggro some classes more than others *cough* Wizards/Warlocks *cough*. Followed by single target proc and then mark.Sign of ____: I only use the Sign line on adds and I have to set up a macro to tell the group what i'm doing and to stop the AE or it will get undone instantly. Often resulting in my death. If they fail at keeping from hitting it a second time (I give the first one as basically an explanation of how it works) I don't cast it in that group ever again.Amending Fate: I rarely use, usually on group heroic encounters (3+ mobs in them) because inevitably several of the mobs will hit other members of the group. Or groups that pull multiple encounters at once or chain the next before finishing the previous.I look for groups that fit my play style rather than changing my play style to whatever group I end up in. Since I enjoy the Mark line and Armor Break and precasting the proc when hit heals. Therefore I prefer a Guardian, 2 scouts, a wizard, a mystic secondary healer, and myself. Specializing in heroic encounters yellow and orange single target only.