50 Spell damage versus 1% crit at 850 SD/40% crit

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<p><a href="http://pages.videotron.com/ouch/necroSD.htm" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://pages.videotron.com/ouch/necroSD.htm</a></p><p>LillyFatal </p><p>Guk server</p>

[Sabutai]

<cite>Ouch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://pages.videotron.com/ouch/necroSD.htm" target="_blank">http://pages.videotron.com/ouch/necroSD.htm</a></p><p>LillyFatal </p><p>Guk server</p></blockquote>your data is wrongeach point of spell damage is worth about 0.28 dps depending on how close to the point of diminishing returns you are ~600 the more crit you should be wearing.By the end of this expansion given all the current instance loot there is you should be able to get around 80-85% crit with about 500 +spell.  If you're hanging over 700 spell right now start working on crit, all these data posts are providing incorrect or deceiving data. 

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<p>Be more specific, </p><p>I actually tested each of the number on that page. </p><p>To help you out.   Say you have spell that do 1000 as base </p><p>If you wear 500 SD  it now do 1500.    On a crit it does  1800. (1000x1,3)+500 = 1800</p><p>If you wear 10K of Spell damage , you still do 1500 on a non crit but you now do (1000x1,3) +650 = 1950</p><p>The reason is spell damage CAP is established after the game decide if you crit.   </p><p>You can test this easilly (I did for hours).</p><p>So even if you think ur actual cap is 500 , it is 500 for full effect and 650 IF you crit (so adding ) 150 more spell damage benefit you only when you crit. Wearing above 650 bring NO benefit</p><p>I listed for each spell the Full benefit and the partial benefit.</p>

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<p>To continue my example.</p><p>Say you are at 500 SD and 50% crit , you will do 50% x 1500 and 50% x 1800 = 1650</p><p>If you were to get 75% crit , you average will gain 150 since you would now do 1800 x75% and 25% x 1500 1725 </p><p>If you were to stay at 50% crit but move to 650 SD , you would do 50% x 1500 and 50% x 1950  = 1725.</p><p>So adding 150 SD for THIS spell have same effect off adding 25% crits (of course addint crit help lich and gluttony so crit would be better but we are comaring 25% crits here to 150 SD. compare it to 3% crit for the kick)</p><p>CQFD</p><p>Lilly</p>

[Sabutai]

<cite>Ouch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>To continue my example.</p><p>Say you are at 500 SD and 50% crit , you will do 50% x 1500 and 50% x 1800 = 1650</p><p>If you were to get 75% crit , you average will gain 150 since you would now do 1800 x75% and 25% x 1500 1725 </p><p>If you were to stay at 50% crit but move to 650 SD , you would do 50% x 1500 and 50% x 1950  = 1725.</p><p>So adding 150 SD for THIS spell have same effect off adding 25% crits (of course addint crit help lich and gluttony so crit would be better but we are comaring 25% crits here to 150 SD. compare it to 3% crit for the kick)</p><p>CQFD</p><p>Lilly</p></blockquote>your data is wrong cause your crit value is wrong.  My drain life does 2375 with 727 spell mod, it crits at 4490

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<p>Do me a favor,</p><p>Go to nekulos beach and cast 20 Drain life, post the results.  YOUR data is wrong</p><p>The 5K drain we se on raid come from DEBUF.  And debuf is calculated AFTER all the calculation above is done.</p>

[Sabutai]

<cite>Ouch wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Do me a favor,</p><p>Go to nekulos beach and cast 20 Drain life, post the results.  YOUR data is wrong</p><p>The 5K drain we se on raid come from DEBUF.  And debuf is calculated AFTER all the calculation above is done.</p></blockquote>why the hell would I evaluate gear and spells in an instance where they ARE NEVER USED?  Your data is wrong because its not in the context of general practice.  If I wanted to know how to value a piece of raid gear that has crit on it, why would I want to know how it faired against a level 1 mob?the dps gain from +spell is approx 0.28 and the gain from crits is approx 8.  You need to balance what you have, if you don't believe me then fine but I hope there are sensible people out there that don't believe the crap you're posting.

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<p>See next post</p>

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<p>You said "your data is wrong cause your crit value is wrong.  My drain life does 2375 with 727 spell mod, it crits at 4490." </p><p>Lets work from here.</p><p>Part 1  : your spell show 2375 with 727 crits, meaning your base is 2375 - 727/2 = 2011 </p><p>Part 2 : without debuf your non crit does 2375 and your crits does 2011 x1,3+727/2 = 2978 </p><p>2375 and 2978 are you nekulos beach number (Verify This please)</p><p>Part 3: you are seeing 4490 on crit on raid. You debuf factor is 4490/2978 = 1,5075</p><p>Part 4 in the SAME raid , your NOn crits are doing 2375 x 1,5075 = 3580. (Confirm that please. but my own number very close to that)</p><p>Adding 1% crit gains u 9,1 damage (4490-3580)/100</p><p>Adding 50 SD add 38 damage (50/2x 1,5075)</p><p>So for drain life adding 50 SD for you is the same as adding 4% crit. Now this is for spell where spell damage actually only give u 50% itrs effect. The difference is twice as large on spell where you get full benefit)</p><p>To be honnest crits also affect demi lich and gluttony so the difference is small then the above but in YOUR case adding 50 SD would be VERY much better then adding 1% crits. </p><p>Saying my post is crap is not constructive. Post  YOUR NON crit raid numbers , say sorry and reread all my data. My numbers are from actual parse.  I confirmed ALL of it during real T8 raids.</p>

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<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>the dps gain from +spell is approx 0.28 and the gain from crits is approx 8.  You need to balance what you have, if you don't believe me then fine but I hope there are sensible people out there that don't believe the crap you're posting.</blockquote><p>A - The 8 DPS gain per crit is completely out of whack.  Just thinks of this:</p><p>1) When you crit , the non spell damage portion of you spell do 30% more damage.</p><p>2) Assuming (example) you do 2500 dps, the portion of you DPS comming from your pet and your DPS comming from LB are both not subject to your crit (pet crit are based on his own crit %)  .  Lets say pet +LB account for 40% of your DPS, that will leave you with 1500 DPS.  Even if the entire 1500 was subject to crit (it is not as the portion commign from Spell damage is not subject to crit) that would give 30% of 1500 = 450 dps from adding 100% crit or 4.5 per crit.  And this is an overestimation . (that would be 1500 dps without crit, without Spell damage, without pet and without LB. No one is doing this)</p><p>B - Now the 0.28 dps per SD is also somewhat wrong. </p><p>1) If you add the first 100 Spell damage, most of ur spell will do 100 more damage, (drain will be 50 more, pandemic 33 more per opponent and bloodcloud 17). That 100 will also be multiply by any raid debuf (that we established at at 1,51 in your case) so it actual effect will be 150 more damage (75 drain, 50 pandemic/opponent and 34 for bloodcloud/opponent). Lets use an average of 100 per cast</p><p>2) Without any form of haste, our spell cast time are 1 to 2 seconds with a recovery of 0.5 meaning 1.5 to 2.5 seconds between each cast. Lets use 2 seconds. So adding 100 SD will add 100 per 2 second or 50 DPS. That is a LOT more then 28 DPS you are claiming.</p><p>Once again , post your NON crit drain life comming from the same environment where you do get those 4490 CRIT drain and then maybe you will start to see the light.</p><p>Lillyfatal Guk server</p>