DPS class than can use dual wield effectively?

[Sasandra]

<p>This is something that's really been irking me about EQ2 lately, it seems like you can't have a DPS class that dual wields swords without sacrificing DPS, Swashy/brig both get the best from a single 1h due to their fencing AA's, dirge/trob i've been told aren't the greatest in terms of DPS, they are more buffing/debuffing, Ranger's are very bow focused, assassins? I know they are very focused on positional damage, can they actualy dual weild for max damage? are they stuck with daggers? heck even going to tanks most of them seem to be the same, I want DPS on my zerker 1h and buckler is the best (even though 1h/shield should be worst since it has the best defense, very unbalanced currently), pal/sk can't dual weild, monk/bruisers can though unless you can get fabled weapons unarmed gives the best with AA's, but what I really want is a class I can dual wield 2 swords without feeling like i'm hurting my group by not going the best route for DPS, is there any option for that, or am I pretty much stuck fencing or using shields if I actualy want to do DPS?</p><p>They seriously need to do some rebalancing on dual wield (and 2h for that matter) cause they seem horibly broken now, either that or they need AA lines that focus on dual wield like they do 1h/shield and fencing, same for 2h, i'd love to have a class that can pull out the big hits with a 2h like zerker's from EQ1, but 2h is just as broken as dual wield, they had things far better balanced in EQ1 it seems, dual wield for max DPS but worst defense due to ripostes, 2h next but better defense due to less ripostes, and 1h and shield for max defence but lowest DPS.</p>

[Ranja]

<cite>Elysara@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>This is something that's really been irking me about EQ2 lately, it seems like you can't have a DPS class that dual wields swords without sacrificing DPS, Swashy/brig both get the best from a single 1h due to their fencing AA's, dirge/trob i've been told aren't the greatest in terms of DPS, they are more buffing/debuffing, Ranger's are very bow focused, assassins? I know they are very focused on positional damage, can they actualy dual weild for max damage? are they stuck with daggers? heck even going to tanks most of them seem to be the same, I want DPS on my zerker 1h and buckler is the best (even though 1h/shield should be worst since it has the best defense, very unbalanced currently), pal/sk can't dual weild, monk/bruisers can though unless you can get fabled weapons unarmed gives the best with AA's, but what I really want is a class I can dual wield 2 swords without feeling like i'm hurting my group by not going the best route for DPS, is there any option for that, or am I pretty much stuck fencing or using shields if I actualy want to do DPS?</p><p>They seriously need to do some rebalancing on dual wield (and 2h for that matter) cause they seem horibly broken now, either that or they need AA lines that focus on dual wield like they do 1h/shield and fencing, same for 2h, i'd love to have a class that can pull out the big hits with a 2h like zerker's from EQ1, but 2h is just as broken as dual wield, they had things far better balanced in EQ1 it seems, dual wield for max DPS but worst defense due to ripostes, 2h next but better defense due to less ripostes, and 1h and shield for max defence but lowest DPS.</p></blockquote>Ouch my eyes are bleeding. So many misunderstandings in this one post I don't know where to begin.DW is the best DPS in game unless you AA spec to something else. Even then, since the DW changes, it is arguable that the 1H rogue line is not any better than DW. Sounds like you want an assassin. Positionals have nothing to do with DW. Assassins DW all the time. Also, bards DW for max DPS as well. Just because their DPS is not good does not mean they don't DW for max DPS.

[liveja]

<cite>Elysara@Mistmoore wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>it seems like you can't have a DPS class that dual wields swords without sacrificing DPS, Swashy/brig both get the best from a single 1h due to their fencing AA's</p></blockquote><p>That is only true if you have a serious fabled weapon. If all you're wielding is a mastercrafted or even a legendary weapon, your DPS dual-wielding will be comparative or even superior to 1H.</p><p>Edit: I also have a Troubie, & there is NO WAY I would even consider single-wielding a weapon with that class, nor should any Predator consider it. 1H is only truly viable for a Rogue with the Wisdom line maxed out.</p>

[Sasandra]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That is only true if you have a serious fabled weapon. If all you're wielding is a mastercrafted or even a legendary weapon, your DPS dual-wielding will be comparative or even superior to 1H.</p></blockquote><p>So dual wield is better with non-raid weapons on a swashy then? every post i've seen on the swashy forum about AA's always says go wis for fencing, so I thought it was best.</p><p>Just seemed that when I would make a class to dual wield a pair of swords I would end up cheating myself/my group on DPS, I do mostly tend to solo cause pickup groups always seem to be hard to find so i've leaned away from assassins cause i've been told they pretty much scrape the bottom of the barrel solo cause they are very positional orientated, my zerker I thought I could go with dual wielded swords but found that they are very much a cookie cutter class, AA's for 1h and buckler otherwise you're going to be doing worse than any other zerker, trob/dirge really aren't my cup of tea in terms of class, I have a swashy which I made for dual wielding but I haven't actualy played her for anything aside from crafting in ages, made her 4 years ago on release of EQ2 and when I came back recently and read about the changes and the fencing thing I hadn't bothered leveling her more.</p><p>I guess i'll pull her out of mothballs and try her then, I just really want a class I can dual wield swords, yes specificaly swords, not daggers, or bo sticks, or anything like that, don't know why but I just like classes where I can dual wield a pair of longswords cause I just think they look cooler, lol.</p>

[Ranja]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elysara@Mistmoore wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>it seems like you can't have a DPS class that dual wields swords without sacrificing DPS, Swashy/brig both get the best from a single 1h due to their fencing AA's</p></blockquote><p>That is only true if you have a serious fabled weapon. If all you're wielding is a mastercrafted or even a legendary weapon, your DPS dual-wielding will be comparative or even superior to 1H.</p><p>Edit: I also have a Troubie, & there is NO WAY I would even consider single-wielding a weapon with that class, nor should any Predator consider it. <b>1H is only truly viable for a Rogue with the Wisdom line maxed out.</b></p></blockquote>Or a raiding ranger that wants to be able to get something out of the items he holds in his hands. In this case, buckler of the howler, maestro's flame, croaking dirk, soulfire (+dps), cookie's pig sticker (+ ranged crit). Rangers need something other than DR in their hands for DW.

[Arondur]

I'll have to (mostly) agree with Flaye on Troubs.  I always DW my troubie...unless just for fun I pull out a shield for grins...and the looks I get.   Never for serious hunting.

[Bledso]

<p>Assassins</p><p>My Assassin DW's and I have Legendary in both - main is piercing - secondary is slashing.</p>

[Zeuhl]

  Our brigand uses DW but our swashy uses 1h and wis line(I think). Our assassin, bards and when our ranger has no option but to melee uses DW.

[Meinen]

<p>really the only ones that can use 1h or DW effectively are rogues and some rangers will use a round shield in their secondary slot (from what i have seen anyway). </p><p>What it really comes down to is preference.  I used to use 1h exclusively, but now i prefer to DW.  Its a marginal dps difference between 1h and DW for rogues.  a lot of any dps depends on what kind of group or raid set up they are in and that goes for any class.  </p>

[RanmaBoyType]

<p>for troubies, if you go the shield line you get 44% DA from having a shield in your offhand (and 10% more if you conitnue down the line, shield not required)  therefore 1 hander and shield on a troub = 54% DA</p><p>So unless you have a seriously amazing 1 hander, dual wield is still the better "damage" choice for a troub.  I dual wield 2 4.0 or greater delay weapons on my trouby and the numbers are just amazing.  I only switch into my shield atm for when i get aggro in groups or if i need to pop the shield block ability</p><p>As far as 2 handers are concerned, let me switch to my SK who currently uses the 2 handed reward from the anaphylaxis quest in jarsath wastes.  i regularly crit for over 5K with it in auto attack damage alone.  i do not think that is anything to laugh at.  When grouped with an illusionist, DA and haste, and those 2 handers are godlike in the hands of a class that can use it properly.</p>

[liveja]

<cite>Elysara@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So dual wield is better with non-raid weapons on a swashy then? every post i've seen on the swashy forum about AA's always says go wis for fencing, so I thought it was best.</p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;"><b>It's heavily dependent on weapon quality, if not solely so. Also, most Swashies will tell you not to bother with 1H until you've got both an excellent weapon & the Wis tree bought up to the last ability, Coule.</b></span></p><p><b><span style="color: #00cc00;">Up until the recent change to weapons, 1H was the clearly dominant spec. The change I just referred to made most/all one-hand weapons dual-wieldable, where previously they could only be dual-wielded if they specifically said so. Now that pretty much any one-hand weapon can be dual-wielded, DW has come back up as a *viable* spec, & as a result a LOT of Swashies & Brigs are now dual-wielding. I was myself, until I recently got Anaphalaxis, & now I'm back to 1H just because I like it.</span></b></p><p><b><span style="color: #00cc00;">The general consensus is that 1H will still get you the best DPS, given the right setup, but that DW is certainly an option. But one thing to keep in mind, is that there is an increased delay on BOTH weapons, & so, if you're going to DW, you're heavily encouraged to make sure the delay on BOTH weapons is the same. It's much easier to time your CAs to avoid losing out on auto attacks if your weapons are both swinging on the same delay. For that reason, & quite a few others, I honestly think one of the best combinations available to a T8 dual-wielder is the <span style="color: #ff3300;">Pristine Incarnadine Imbued Kukri</span>: HUGE damage range, HUGE max damage, nice stats. With 100% haste, each weapon is swinging every 2 seconds; makes CA timing quite easy.</span></b></p><p>I just really want a class I can dual wield swords</p><p><span style="color: #00cc00;"><b>It's actually a good idea to dual-wield 1 piercer & 1 slasher, so you can keep both skills high.</b></span></p></blockquote>

[GeminiStar]

<p>Even with the double attack from the Bard STA line it does not match the damage a high damage low delay proc weapon in the offhand.</p><p> Also as far as I know you cannot proc off a double attack.</p>

[Sasandra]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p><b>It's actually a good idea to dual-wield 1 piercer & 1 slasher, so you can keep both skills high.</b></p></blockquote>Well I plan on keeping a decent piercer for that reason, to swap in to max piercing and then go back to the swords, just prefer matching weapon if posible, and since i'll likely just be sticking with mastercrafted weapons I make that's easy to get, I won't ever be raiding so mostly that's probably all i'll have for weapon most times, unless some soloable quest gives a worthwhile weapon, which i've yet to get one that did on any of my characters.

[liveja]

<cite>Elysara@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>unless some soloable quest gives a worthwhile weapon, which i've yet to get one that did on any of my characters.</blockquote>Blackfang Rapier is a pretty decent weapon. You get it from the first quest at the Tabernacle Of Pain, in Kunzar Jungle: kill a bunch of Quatchas & Raptors. Fairly easy, definitely soloable.

[TheSpin]

<p>I play a brigand, and I have to say that I definately think the best 'potential' dps comes from dual wielding.  I felt like this was true even before a recent nerf to procs on double attacks (you can no longer proc on the double attack).  Assassins also dual wield for max dps.  With the rogue AA tree the way it is, pretty much any raiding brigand needs to spend their points in the strength line and because of the mechanics of double up and dispatch I would definately say the faster casting times in the agility line are also better than the wis line.</p><p>Swashbucklers may have some additional advantages to the 'freehand' line that I can't think of right now, but dual wield is a viable option for them even if it's not the absolute best.</p>

[Sasandra]

<cite>Flaye@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Elysara@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>unless some soloable quest gives a worthwhile weapon, which i've yet to get one that did on any of my characters.</blockquote>Blackfang Rapier is a pretty decent weapon. You get it from the first quest at the Tabernacle Of Pain, in Kunzar Jungle: kill a bunch of Quatchas & Raptors. Fairly easy, definitely soloable.</blockquote>Well seeing as i've been playing off and on for over 3 years now (since release) and my highest character is still only 43 I don't think i'll be doing that quest anytime soon, lol.

[Skua]

2h sux , u lose stats ....and the dmg is subpar =/ 

[Dreadpatch]

I think we are missing the most important point of all, duel wielding is just so much sexier. And that is what being a swashy is all about...

[Geothe]

<p>DW > 1hand if you have 2 approx even quality weapons.</p><p>If you have one sweet fabled weapon, and then one crappy weapon, as a rogue, going to Wis line 1hand spec until you get a second weapon would probably be better dps.</p><p>But, once you get 2 good weapons, then DW takes over.</p>

[Zeuhl]

Our brigand respecced last night to 1H and max wis line. After running a couple of Rok dungeons last night it looks like he has brought his dps up by a good bit judging by the parses last night.

[NiteWolfe]

<cite>Geothe wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>DW > 1hand if you have 2 approx even quality weapons.</p><p>If you have one sweet fabled weapon, and then one crappy weapon, as a rogue, going to Wis line 1hand spec until you get a second weapon would probably be better dps.</p><p>But, once you get 2 good weapons, then DW takes over.</p></blockquote> I have to disagree here sorry,  with maxed  DA from wis line (swashy/brig) plus all the DA items in rok you can get very close to 100% DA using a 1h and you dont suffer from the 33% added delay of DW. 33% on top of the already nice long delay rok weapons is a lot of lost/wasted haste. Now where DW is greater than 1h is if you DO NOT have a really good 1h then it makes sense to go DW till you get one. This only applies if you can get a really high self buffed DA%. No a 1H specced swashy is much more styling that a DW swashy and swashy is all about style!

[Terron]

<cite>NiteWolfe wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> No a 1H specced swashy is much more styling that a DW swashy and swashy is all about style!</blockquote>Ask a true swashie which is more stylish, 1H or DW, and the answer you should get is "Whichever I choose" <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />As to which is most effective, I suspect that if you have 2 weapons of roughly equal quality DW is, but my swashie has only 1 fabled 1H weapon so she uses 1H.

[Jehannum]

<p>Troubies should never consider a shield?!  I have to take a bit of exception to that.  Most troubadours should be wielding a shield at least once a minute.  Remember, we can't swap out other stuff but we can swap weapons and shields.  Any troubadour who's taken the Skald line sacrifices relatively little dps to put up a shield (even less if the main weapon's a lot better than the offhand) for the few seconds it takes to lay down a round bash.  I'd contend that the damage dealt by that bash outweighs any minor loss in auto-attack dps or procs.  Given that it's also a (non-epic) stun, it also comes in handy sometimes as a bail-out if the tank's getting a lot of spike damage in an instance (other than immune mobs of course)</p><p>All that said, it seems a lot easier to get a decent offhand weapon than it is to get a decent shield.  I've thrown away several weapons already, and I'm still using a junk treasured shield for the bash.</p>

[ZerkerDwarf]

<cite>Dreadpatch wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think we are missing the most important point of all, duel wielding is just so much sexier. And that is what being a swashy is all about...</blockquote>That's true mate. Watching my swashi single wielding... brb, somehow there is something missing (especially when standing idle with this single weapon unsheathed), it looks strange... and he looses the feeling of a quick and bladewhirling combat style.

[RanmaBoyType]

For my troub - i have to update from my previous statement as i recently received a pretty decent T8 one hander - Betrayal's Song(DR 97ish, 4 sec delay)  For myself i have found going the shield has gives me just a wee bit more edge than dual wielding now.  i will continue the 1 hander and shield until i can find a good secondary.