What the hell? Bucklers? [Archive] - EQ2 Forum Archive @ EQ2Wire

Culliganator

01-14-2008, 09:10 PM

I rolled a new Berserker the other day and I come hear to find out no one wants you unless you spec in buckler? A berserker should be an AE warrior. A shield should help for when you need to tank something big but in no way should it be better dps than 2-handed or dual wield. It's bad enough that zerks are forced to wear plate armor.. sheesh. Buckler? That fits in better with a Swashbuckler or brigand in my mind.I think the real problem is with classes being pigeon-holed into certain builds. WoW has the basic builds for warriors for straight tanking, single target dps and ae dps done OK but I think Guild Wars does them all one better by allowing you to setup your build before you head out the door at no cost. EQ has really goofed up on their concept of a "Berserker" that's for sure.

Kalbr

01-14-2008, 10:57 PM

Eh I'm kindda on the fence with this one. I can kindda see it, an kindda can't. I think it all boils down to symantics.Had the zerker class been named "Gladiator" (i realize that's the title you get in STA line) then I think people would be more OK with the buckler spec. I'm with ya though, initially I thought it was ok, but the longer I have the little dinner plate infront of me the less I feel like a "Berserker". If they were to add some useful 2H weapon bonuses or dual wield bonuses, that'd be fine so that people could choose tanking (buckler) or more DPS (2h/DW buffs).Anywho, that's just the state of things, sadly.

Schmalex23

01-14-2008, 11:04 PM

<cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ has really goofed up on their concept of a "Berserker" that's for sure.</blockquote>You realise THIER concept of a berserker doesnt have to be even remotley close to YOUR concept of a berserker.

Roache

01-14-2008, 11:42 PM

<cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote> It's bad enough that zerks are forced to wear plate armor.. sheesh. Buckler? That fits in better with a Swashbuckler or brigand in my mind.</blockquote>Perhaps you should roll a swash or brigand then?

Xalmat

01-14-2008, 11:46 PM

<cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's bad enough that zerks are forced to wear plate armor.. sheesh. </blockquote>Forced? I consider it an on-the-job perk. You wouldn't want to go tanking mobs in cloth armor now, would ya?

Kalbr

01-14-2008, 11:48 PM

<cite>Xalmat wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Forced? I consider it an on-the-job perk. You wouldn't want to go tanking mobs in cloth armor now, would ya?</blockquote>Actually I loved to do that back in DAoC, valewalker class. One of my favorite classes, it was a scythe wielding, cloth wearing, melee absorbtion buffing class that could, and often did tank in cloth.

RufusDeMar

01-15-2008, 04:07 PM

I really think Sony took all the classes from EQ1 and shuffled them around until they fit and the berserker just wasn't going to fit with the monk/bruiser.I still feel like a berserker cuz I'm really good at sacrificing suvivability for DPS/aggro. Maintaining that balance is the hardest thing about being berserker I think.Valewalker was a cool class....similar in look to the dervish from guild wars.

Culliganator

01-15-2008, 08:55 PM

<cite>Skel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ has really goofed up on their concept of a "Berserker" that's for sure.</blockquote>You realise THIER concept of a berserker doesnt have to be even remotley close to YOUR concept of a berserker. </blockquote>My personal definition closely resembles the common definition of a berserker.Here are some examples from a quick search: From Brittanica Concise Encyclopediaberserker (from Old Norse beserkr, "bearskin". In premedieval and medieval Norse and Germanic history and folklore, any member of unruly warrior gangs that worshiped <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/odin" target="_blank">Odin</a> and attached themselves to royal and noble courts as bodyguards and shock troops. They [I cannot control my vocabulary] and murdered at will in their host communities, and their savagery in battle and animal-skin attire (they are also said to have fought naked) contributed to the development of the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/werewolf" target="_blank">werewolf</a> legend in Europe.From Wikipedia Berserkers (or Berserks) were <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/norsemen" target="_blank">Norse</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/warrior" target="_blank">warriors</a> who were commonly understood to have fought in an uncontrollable rage or trance of fury; the berserkergang.The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfhéðinn) mentioned in the Vatnsdœla saga, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/orbj-rn-hornklofi" target="_blank">Haraldskvæði</a> and the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/volsunga-saga" target="_blank">Völsunga saga</a> were said to wear the pelt of a wolf upon their heads when they entered battle. (For example: Warinhari, Haimric, Theudberga, Hlodwig etc.)EtymologyBersërkr (plural berserkir) is most typically translated as "bear's skin" referring to the bear skin clothing Viking warriors wore into battle, but also as 'not wearing armour', thought to connote light troops without armour. The berserkers wore decorated helmets made of metal and chain mail covered by a large cloth. The berserkers fought with battle axes, swords, and spears. The most famous weapon would be their deadly throwing axe which the berserkers used with great skill. Their morale was extremely high, greatly intimidating their enemies.

Bremer

01-15-2008, 09:00 PM

<cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote>EQ has really goofed up on their concept of a "Berserker" that's for sure.</blockquote>You realise THIER concept of a berserker doesnt have to be even remotley close to YOUR concept of a berserker. </blockquote>From Brittanica Concise Encyclopediaberserker (from Old Norse beserkr, "bearskin"<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /> In premedieval and medieval Norse and Germanic history and folklore, any member of unruly warrior gangs that worshiped <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/odin" target="_blank">Odin</a> and attached themselves to royal and noble courts as bodyguards and shock troops. They [I cannot control my vocabulary] and murdered at will in their host communities, and their savagery in battle and animal-skin attire (they are also said to have fought naked) contributed to the development of the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/werewolf" target="_blank">werewolf</a> legend in Europe.From Wikipedia Berserkers (or Berserks) were <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/norsemen" target="_blank">Norse</a> <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/warrior" target="_blank">warriors</a> who were commonly understood to have fought in an uncontrollable rage or trance of fury; the berserkergang.The Úlfhéðnar (singular Úlfhéðinn) mentioned in the Vatnsdœla saga, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/orbj-rn-hornklofi" target="_blank">Haraldskvæði</a> and the <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.answers.com/topic/volsunga-saga" target="_blank">Völsunga saga</a> were said to wear the pelt of a wolf upon their heads when they entered battle. (For example: Warinhari, Haimric, Theudberga, Hlodwig etc.)EtymologyBersërkr (plural berserkir) is most typically translated as "bear's skin" referring to the bear skin clothing Viking warriors wore into battle, but also as 'not wearing armour', thought to connote light troops without armour. The berserkers wore decorated helmets made of metal and chain mail covered by a large cloth. The berserkers fought with battle axes, swords, and spears. The most famous weapon would be their deadly throwing axe which the berserkers used with great skill. Their morale was extremely high, greatly intimidating their enemies.</blockquote>In reality Zerkers wore leather, in Eq2 they wear plate, in reality you can't do magic, in Eq2 you can. , that's called artistic license.

Culliganator

01-15-2008, 09:03 PM

I call it artistic "suck" and I know I am not the only one dissapointed by this.

Culliganator

01-15-2008, 09:07 PM

Give an Assasin or Brigand 2-handers and AOE skills and there's your Berserker. I agree that the class probably should have been given a different name, "Gladiator" is a good choice.Folks who have played this class and enjoy it, kudos to you. All I am saying is it is a bit misleading to someone who decides to roll one up based on the "common" notion of what a berserker is. Especially when they start you out dual wielding two battle axes...

FatChocobo

01-15-2008, 09:51 PM

I completely agree. I was planning on rolling a zerker, getting a good 2hder, and crushing everything. Then I heard that zerkers don't do much more than tank. It makes me sad, the great berserker, terror of the battlefield, hiding behind a shield. Plus, it just doesn't seem right from a logical standpoint (i know logic+video games=error, but stay with me here please). How does a short sword and buckler cause more damage than a claymore or a battle ax? Honestly, it doesn't make sense, and for the crazy bloodthirsty warriors in us (or at least me), it's just not as much fun fun.

Davish_Darkwolf

01-15-2008, 10:33 PM

<cite></cite><blockquote>In reality Zerkers wore leather, in Eq2 they wear plate, in reality you can't do magic, in Eq2 you can. , that's called artistic license.</blockquote>Sorry my friend, better do your research a little better. In reality Berserkers could wear from nothing to full armor in combat.You didnt have to wear leather to become a berserker at all, it was a state of mind during battle, or absence of it if you want, since they entered a battle rage so intense they could even hurt their own troops.Induced by drugs (as some arqueologists defend) or not, the sight of a Warrior in front of you completely in rage with no fear of dieing and seemingly feeling no pain was a sight to behold.The Bizantine emperor once had a special elite force of viking shock troops. Guess what kind of warriors they were? Yes, BERSERKERS.Guess what they wore in battle? The FINEST armor available at the time, NOT LEATHER AT ALL or going into battle HALF-NAKED.I completely agree with the OP. The Berserker buckler cookie spec is a disgrace to the class name that btw ISNT named Gladiator, but BERSERKER.A Warrior using 2 weapons or a huge 2 handed Sword or Mace would do MUCH MORE damage than one using a 1hander and a small shield.Dont believe me? Ask the decapitated dead corpse next to him by a single blow - yes that was reality, yes this is a GAME but no matter what you call your class there's one thing you can't ignore and that's pure and simple LOGIC.Add LOGIC to fantasy lore inherited by books and rpg games much older than EQ and there you have it, the true Berserker class, not this buckler oddity that many players are almost forced to play with.I dont use bucklers, only 2handers or DW btw - that's the way i always envisioned the class.And no, im playing a BERSERKER since day 1, not a Bruiser or whatever, cause this is the class i have chosen even before game came out, no matter how odd it is to be a rare Zerker using a 2hander among so many buckler cookie specs (and yes i get the job done and having fun with it).

Schmalex23

01-16-2008, 12:33 AM

Since when did norathian history= earth's history. berserker is whatever the hell SoE wants it to be. If you dont like it [Removed for Content]

Wyrmypops

01-16-2008, 12:53 AM

The berserker imagery that is evoked by the name, and supported by countless hits in Google and such, that's all fine an all. We do have the option to fight naked or don whatever leather/chain we want. And can fight with a 2hander or tote 2 weapons. They are options. Bad and gimpy options, but still. That evocative imagery is from our dark ages. If those savages fast forwarded to an age where plate armour was an option, then it's not unfair to assume they'd wear it. One could consider EQ1 closer to Norrathian dark ages, and now, 500 years on, plate armour is more and widely available. Of that evocative zerker imagery, there is also a common theme of zerkers chewing upon the rim of a shield before wading into battle. It wouldn't be a buckler neccesarily, but still, close enough. Our Sta line should really require a round shield, while the brigands/swashies should be utilising the buckler. That fighting style is where the Swashbuckler name comes from, an age were young city gents took to wearing lightswords that swashed against the bucklers also clipped to their belts. SoE dropped the ball there, but dare say it's too late to remedy it.

LygerT

01-16-2008, 04:04 AM

eh, at least they did us right by making Virtue's Guard look more like a real shield than a tiny piece of crap hubcap like BoH or a square piece of wood like the FF bucklers..

RufusDeMar

01-16-2008, 03:50 PM

didn't the "berserker" in forgotten realms (in the story of Drizzt the crazy dwarf guys) wear plate with spikes and razors on it only to leap into battle frothing at the mouth and giving his enemies a big hug?I KNEW (with little research) going into this game that a berserker was a tank, albeit an offensive one, but a tank nonetheless.

Kalbr

01-16-2008, 04:20 PM

Sorta, that guy was a "battlerager" close enough though hehe. And his name was Pwent (or something like that).Man I'm a dork <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

KBern

01-16-2008, 04:39 PM

Thibbledorf Pwent if I remember correctly. The Gutbuster Brigade.

Zeuhl

01-16-2008, 07:03 PM

Yup I remember that book, lol. While my berserker may not be what I envisioned when I made him, I still have fun. Instead of crushing you with a giant 2-handed axe, I'll either cut you to pieces with my sword or cave in your skull when I bash you in the face with that little piece of metal strapped to my arm.

Culliganator

01-16-2008, 07:48 PM

From further reading it would seem that the game simply needs an overhaul on the 2-handed weapons. If they predominantly get disenchanted by high end guilds then there is a design flaw that needs addressing.

Culliganator

01-16-2008, 07:51 PM

<cite>Skel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since when did norathian history= earth's history. berserker is whatever the hell SoE wants it to be. If you dont like it [Removed for Content]</blockquote>Like any good business, Sony's defintion of stuff will be in-line with whatever their customer base wants. You aren't the only one who reads these boards...

Schmalex23

01-16-2008, 10:51 PM

<cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Skel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since when did norathian history= earth's history. berserker is whatever the hell SoE wants it to be. If you dont like it [Removed for Content]</blockquote>Like any good business, Sony's defintion of stuff will be in-line with whatever their customer base wants. You aren't the only one who reads these boards...</blockquote>No it isnt, otherwise items/spells would never be nefred, we wouldnt have to deal with bugs, and all classes would be balanced. Sonys vision is what they want it to be, and thats it.

LockyK

01-17-2008, 05:24 PM

My berserker in D&D wears plate... you just rolled the class if it doesn't fit your vision roll another... there is plenty to chose from and I'm sure one of em will fill the void.

Davish_Darkwolf

01-17-2008, 10:28 PM

<cite>Skel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote>Since when did norathian history= earth's history. berserker is whatever the hell SoE wants it to be. If you dont like it [Removed for Content]</blockquote>So if SOE makes the zerker a flying toilet you would still be happy, wouldnt you? Cause they can turn the word Berserker into whatever they want to be?I never said i dont like my Zerker, hell i've been playing one since the release, with no alts (cant say the same about you "Guardian"????).All im saying is that the traditional Zerker aspect seen in EVERY other RPG needs some loving, not JUST 1 valid spec but 3.If you have 1 spec that is both the best Tank and best DPS at the same time, doesnt that render the other 2 completely useless? Then why have some many variety if you are pigeonholed into 1?

Schmalex23

01-17-2008, 10:36 PM

<cite>Davish_Darkwolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>cant say the same about you "Guardian"</blockquote>You make me laugh, alot.

Davish_Darkwolf

01-17-2008, 10:55 PM

<cite>Skel@Butcherblock wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Davish_Darkwolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>cant say the same about you "Guardian"</blockquote>You make me laugh, alot.</blockquote>Funny, i felt just the same by reading your sig.

CrazyMoogle

01-17-2008, 11:15 PM

If you have to resort to using any derivative of the term "cookie cutter" to justify why you're intentionally using a gimped spec on your character then you've already lost the argument.Just sayin'.

Schmalex23

01-18-2008, 03:05 AM

<cite>Davish_Darkwolf wrote:</cite><blockquote>Funny, i felt just the same by reading your sig.</blockquote>Hi, like my custom title?<img src="http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t2/alex_schmalex/betray.jpg" alt="" border="0" />

YummiOger

01-18-2008, 04:59 AM

LoL SKEL!! See, even SOE thinks you are a betrayer to us!!Thats pretty bad a55.. lol.

RufusDeMar

01-18-2008, 03:13 PM

the whole wearing plate thing is pretty much out because of the appearance slots so that's a non-issue.I did fine with dual wield or 2 hander as long as I wasn't tanking in Rok or x4 raids. I'm a tank for RoK instances though...so yea I need the buckler.So do what you want.

Culliganator

01-18-2008, 06:37 PM

<cite>RufusDeMarko wrote:</cite><blockquote>the whole wearing plate thing is pretty much out because of the appearance slots so that's a non-issue.I did fine with dual wield or 2 hander as long as I wasn't tanking in Rok or x4 raids. I'm a tank for RoK instances though...so yea I need the buckler.So do what you want.</blockquote>I think they need more warrior archetypes to choose from. Maybe the next expansion? If they do that then they should probably revamp the "Berserker" or maybe rename it to something else (gladiator) and then make a real berserker.

Schmalex23

01-18-2008, 06:57 PM

So you want a warrior that doesnt wear plate and uses big 2 handers or DW? Yeah the game totally doesnt have that already, they should deffinatly make a new class for it....

Gaealiege

01-19-2008, 12:10 PM

From what I understand about this post, you are ranting that the game should be designed in a way such that it is 100% in line with your definition of fantasy. How arrogant is that boast?Class definitions are in fact whatever the artistic license of SOE designates. You can submit complaints with your justifications but it all really boils down to the fact that you are a dust particle to them. Many of the RPG class systems are revamped and retooled and often improperly "named". Try balancing this entire game in every aspect class-wise and still maintain the "traditional" titles you think classes should have. It just won't happen. Look at World of Warcraft, for instance, where a priest can do as much or more DPS as a rogue. I guarantee you won't find many old RPG players saying that is in line with how the class should be, but that is how it is. Along the same lines, this isn't World of Warcraft. I don't play this game because I know that if I complain enough the developers will change the entire game to my liking. I play this game because I like this game. So do you. If you don't like the game, don't play it.If the WoW argument isn't sound enough for you then check out Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition that is coming out in June 2008. The entire game is being revamped and certain classes that have existed for 40 FORTY FORTY years are being completely removed. They are even removing the gnome race!!!! All RPGs are based around the definitions that this pen and paper game created. If you want to complain, email Wizards of the Coast and come back to the forums to tell me if they even care enough to respond.On the final note, you're arguing with Skel. I'm not sure if you're aware, and you're probably not, but at one point he was one of the top berserkers in the world. He is very intelligent and reasonable, and he knows what he's talking about. Pay his responses respect. Thank you for your time.

Wildmage

01-19-2008, 10:50 PM

I'm of the opinion that they never intended the buckler line to be so overpowered as it is, was probably just supposed to give people a hybrid build between the tower shield and 1H tanking build, and the DPS builds with dual wielding or 2handers. And im sure someone is going to go all crazy cause I called it overpowered but consider this if your familiar with Magic: The Gathering, do you remember a card called Skullclamp and the reasoning for why it ended up being banned in MTG?

EndlessHurt

01-20-2008, 03:02 AM

Appearance tab FTW if they don't fit your envision of a 'berserker' in PLATE.

LygerT

01-20-2008, 03:17 PM

why just resort to the appearance tab?you know there is tons of chain and leather that adds quite a bit of DPS for us so if that is truly how you feel like playing then do it and quit complaining that other people like to kill a mob and live.

RufusDeMar

01-21-2008, 02:46 PM

I'm of the opinion that they never intended the buckler line to be so overpowered as it is, was probably just supposed to give people a hybrid build between the tower shield and 1H tanking build, and the DPS builds with dual wielding or 2handers.Isn't that what it is now? I think you can get higher DPS with Dual Wield and higher defense with Tower if you tried hard enough. Each way sacrifices the other though and the STA build is good solid DPS with good, solid defense. It's not GREAT dps (although in certain setups I'm sure it could be) nor is it GREAT defense. It's been said many times that it's the best "bang for the buck" in our warrior tree.

Wildmage

01-21-2008, 08:44 PM

<cite>RufusDeMarko wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm of the opinion that they never intended the buckler line to be so overpowered as it is, was probably just supposed to give people a hybrid build between the tower shield and 1H tanking build, and the DPS builds with dual wielding or 2handers.Isn't that what it is now? I think you can get higher DPS with Dual Wield and higher defense with Tower if you tried hard enough. Each way sacrifices the other though and the STA build is good solid DPS with good, solid defense. It's not GREAT dps (although in certain setups I'm sure it could be) nor is it GREAT defense. It's been said many times that it's the best "bang for the buck" in our warrior tree.</blockquote>that only holds if in a situation where you want to be tanking you would be significantly better with an AP specced tanking build or in a pure dps motivated situation the same thing as it seems now its the best build for any situation...and like I mentioned with skullclamp its distorting the entire class. to the point even if you want a pure solo build or a pure grouping build you still have to pick up the bloody dinner plate or suffer.

Culliganator

01-23-2008, 08:58 PM

<cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>why just resort to the appearance tab?you know there is tons of chain and leather that adds quite a bit of DPS for us so if that is truly how you feel like playing then do it and quit complaining that other people like to kill a mob and live. </blockquote>I would try that but all of the quest rewards are offering only plate and that is really pigeon-holing my choices. I have also noticed some "shield only" CAs. This means that if you do not have a shield equipped you are missing out on some CAs. All other CAs can be performed with a shield equipped.

01-24-2008, 06:12 PM

Another win for the buckler line dropped in Chelsith for me last night: 50% damage bonus to all ripostes. <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/items/item_profile.vm?itemId=355467" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...m?itemId=355467</a>

Wargurine

01-24-2008, 09:59 PM

<cite>Culliganator wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Lyger@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>why just resort to the appearance tab?you know there is tons of chain and leather that adds quite a bit of DPS for us so if that is truly how you feel like playing then do it and quit complaining that other people like to kill a mob and live. </blockquote>I would try that but all of the quest rewards are offering only plate and that is really pigeon-holing my choices. I have also noticed some "shield only" CAs. This means that if you do not have a shield equipped you are missing out on some CAs. All other CAs can be performed with a shield equipped.</blockquote>No, you noticed ONE shield only CA, not some. And since the name of it is something like shield bash (don't remember the names of the lower lvl ca's anymore, but they do follow that theme) it does make sense that you have to have a shield equipped to bash someone with it. stop exaggerating things to try and make your point, if you can't prove your point with gross exaggeration, then you obviously have no grounds for it.

Pyra Shineflame

01-24-2008, 10:15 PM

I am not getting into this heating up argument about whatever and whatnot (as you can tell...I read the entire post) but I will just say this:"Cookie cutter" implies that the sta spec is the only thing you can do and that everything else will make you useless. It is not so.When I made my zerker, I intended for it to be as difficult for me as possible (not really but it turned out that way!) as I am a roleplayer and because my zerker is very bull headed I had to do some intensive researching so I wouldn't "[Removed for Content]" myself.I'm currently str,agi and wis specced and doing fine of course. No self respecting zerker (image counts, but I'll die before it gets as bad as the swashes) would be swinging around a dinner plate in the face of a giant dragon trying to eat you. It only gives it ideas.Awesome healer? I go DW. Hard hitting mobs or average healer? Break out the kite or tower shield.Don't like plate? Currently I'm gunning for the cloth wearing squichy carrying a sharp sword(s) with much respect to the appearance slots.There isn't one "true" way to play your berserker and there is plenty of choices to make to go around the aspects of the "ideal" set up that you don't like.That being said, min/maxing I tolerate. Bashing the play styles of others I do not.

-Aonein-

01-26-2008, 09:17 PM

<cite>Nitz@Permafrost wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another win for the buckler line dropped in Chelsith for me last night: 50% damage bonus to all ripostes. <a rel="nofollow" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/items/item_profile.vm?itemId=355467" target="_blank">http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...m?itemId=355467</a></blockquote> Yeah I have those too, nice item, the riposte dmg increase isn't really noticeable though seeing ripo dmg is only half of your auto attack dmg and we just don't ripo all that much for it to make a huge improvement, a minor improvment at best, but all adds up. I can't believe im going to say this, but I agree with Skel, time and time again over the last almost 4 years people have complained about the zerker class not fitting with real world lore when most of us who have been here since day 1 know that this is SoE's view of a Zerker, not the worlds.