Writ Grinding a home ::a discussion

[Valdaglerion]

Crafting in your home has been a topic of discussion many times over. But now we are getting to a point where we have had several changes lately. Currently, you can with status and coin purchase the various tradeskilling stations which can be placed in your home and used. In addition, you can, with faction, purchase a clipboard for your house which allows you to retrieve a crafting writ you already requested of a NPC.Other housing items which make home crafting viable:<ul><li>Marketboard: you can place finished products on the market for sale</li><li>Norrathian mailbox: for purchase from city merchants for status and coin</li></ul>HUGE pieces currently missing from home crafting:<ul><li>NPC to get new writs from and turn in completed writs</li><li>Merchant (Fuel and general for sale backs)</li></ul>Suggestion:In considering the newest implementation of the Mirror of Reflected Achievements I started wondering why not another combination of crafting skills to make the "Butler Bot of Crafting Excellence"?Tinkers would get a new master recipe for "Butler Bot" - 6 tynnonium clusters / 10 ore / 10 loam / 10 smoldering coal to make (2 tynn clusters back on pristine). "Butler bot" would be a tradeable component.Any tradeskiller 75+ with ally faction could buy a recipe for "Butler Bot of Crafting Excellence". The finished product is no-trade and must be made with the commission system. Recipe is geomancy and requires - 1 butler bot / 1 incarnadine cluster / 1 fire emerald / 10 smoldering coals (all lost on non-pristine combine)End result would be a no-trade npc which would be placed in your house (no wandering like the pets, stationary bot). This bot would act as merchant for selling fuels and doing general buy backs like other tradeskill instance merchants. In addition, right clicking on the bot would give you the writ options for getting new writs. (You would then use your existing clipboard to retrieve the writ)IMHO - until we get these things crafting in the home is never going to be efficient or widely used.Thoughts, comments?? Doable?

[Mystfit]

<p>I always go with the idea that if they haven't give it to us, it's cause it's just not feasable on levels we just don't get not being there in the office with them.</p><p>Howver, I would ownder if they would consider making it part of guild halls. </p>

[Hanoverian]

<p>Place an NPC in every home for the purpose of getting and handing in writs?  It makes no sense.  The whole idea of a writ is that the crafting guild, be it Ironforge Exchange or Coalition, needs someone to make something for them.  You are there to do them a favor...be it standard or rush order, and in return you get faction and coin.  From a story-line point of view, it makes no sense if there's someone from the guild in your house.  </p><p>I also don't think there was ever an intent to make you completely independent.  Just because you can craft at home, doesn't mean you should be able to do everything at home.  What's next, adventuring without having to leave your inn room?     </p><p>     </p>

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Hanoverian wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Place an NPC in every home for the purpose of getting and handing in writs?  It makes no sense.  The whole idea of a writ is that the crafting guild, be it Ironforge Exchange or Coalition, needs someone to make something for them.  You are there to do them a favor...be it standard or rush order, and in return you get faction and coin.  </p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">What? volunteers from somewhere else would be turned down? The mail system is broken and there is no way you could have offered services and had the materials delivered when they were completed?? That is called wholesale/retail distribution chain. Come on...dont be silly in thinking good are only used at teh point of manufacture. You arent there to do them a favor - you are providing a service for which you are compensated.</span></p><p>From a story-line point of view, it makes no sense if there's someone from the guild in your house. </p><span style="color: #ff3300;">Really? But it makes sense that representatives from Qeynos and Freeport are peppered throughout almost every zone in the game? Come on...are you serious or just kidding me here? Why wouldnt a work order be delivered to your house? Dont you get email with job requests all the time? I know I do. I get job requests from all over the country in a single day.</span><p>I also don't think there was ever an intent to make you completely independent.  Just because you can craft at home, doesn't mean you should be able to do everything at home.  What's next, adventuring without having to leave your inn room?     </p><p>     </p></blockquote>I enjoy hyperbole as well but seriously, crafting is something that can be done at home. Having a virtual errand boy to pick up materials and deliver them as a bot in your home is plausible but adventuring without leaving home is an oxymoron.

[Redbed]

<p>Stupid question, but can you get more then 1 Tradeskill writ?  Get 1st writ from Coalition in West Freeport.  Get 2nd from Beggers Court, 3 from Temple, 4th from Big Bend, then click on board in house...no I doubt that would work and probley bring down the server.</p><p>Maybee they could add functionality to the Mailbox (The Status one for your home) and instead of an NPC they would mail you requests.  Or even right click the board and NPC rushes into your house and urgently requests you to complete a writ.  </p><p>They can do it if they want to.  Not sure how much effort it would cause.  But if your faction is high enough and you got one of the faction titles they should accomodate you since your a valuable member.  Im a commisioner because I dont particularly like Rackateer, but I guess I could get Rackateer and still use the Commisioner Title.</p>

[Calthine]

With the disclaimer, that yes, I know things change:Not too terribly long ago the Devs almost did away with the crafting instances in Freeport and Qeynos  Why?  They wanted to get us out and interacting more with adventurers.  (Lag wise it didn't work out, fortunately.)  Notice that there are no crafting instances in the new cities.  Even earlier in the development timeline one of the old CM's said that there were not banks in the TS instances because they wanted us to get out and get some sun occasionally.If this is still the philosophy, why would they add mechanics that made it <i>easier</i> for us to lock ourselves in our rooms and never come out?

[Lakaah]

I don't see a need to be able to buy fuels in your home, as it is easy enough to stock up on a few hundred (or thousand, really) and bring them home with you. I'd like it though, if there was a way to do, say, 5-10 writs before having to venture out to pick up more. Crafting at home seems borderline useless to me as-is.We have a ton of really cool items, craftable and otherwise, to decorate our homes with. Unfortunately, there is little reason to spend any time there! I think making crafting at home more viable would provide a nice balance.

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the disclaimer, that yes, I know things change:Not too terribly long ago the Devs almost did away with the crafting instances in Freeport and Qeynos  Why?  They wanted to get us out and interacting more with adventurers.  (Lag wise it didn't work out, fortunately.)  Notice that there are no crafting instances in the new cities.  Even earlier in the development timeline one of the old CM's said that there were not banks in the TS instances because they wanted us to get out and get some sun occasionally.If this is still the philosophy, why would they add mechanics that made it <i>easier</i> for us to lock ourselves in our rooms and never come out?</blockquote>I havent noticed any of the crafting instances removed from Qeynos, although admittedly I play freep very little. What instances were removed? I typically use the one in Castleview and the Ironforge in North Qeynos although I have guildies that use 2 more in alternate suburbs of Qeynos.Sorry but the logic out getting out and getting sun to me involves more than zoning, running 10 feet to a door and going INSIDE to the bank...LOLI think the concept was completely lost in the implementation if that was the intent. Domino is doing a much better job in giving crafters a MOTIVATION for getting some sun - IE..crafting QUESTS. If the absence of banking in the TS instances was to ensure we get some sun I think they need to put banking in the TS instance and just giggle and say oops on that one.There are valid reasons for asking for crafting to be more convenient to the crafter and not the mechanics of the game. IF/WHEN/AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE (soon) guild halls are ever actually really introduced this will be a component that will be needed. If adventures can do everything from the guild hall but crafters are relegated to the cities for their play is there really a place in a guild for a crafter??Some people spend considerable time designing and decorating their homes but their is little they are able to do in them. It would be nice if we could actually craft in our homes. it would give us another reason to spend some time there.

[SaraBH]

<cite></cite><blockquote><blockquote>I havent noticed any of the crafting instances removed from Qeynos, although admittedly I play freep very little. What instances were removed? I typically use the one in Castleview and the Ironforge in North Qeynos although I have guildies that use 2 more in alternate suburbs of Qeynos.</blockquote></blockquote><p>At launch there were 4 TS instances per starting city. You started in the basic TS society and when you got to lvl 10 and picked your next class (Craftsman, Scholer, outfiter) you needed to join a new society in your village to get your special books. You could still use the basic one but couldnt get yout books there any more. </p><p>So lets see there are 6 small towns in Freeport and they removed 3 per zone thats 18 TS intsances removed. Im pritty shur it was the same in Qeynos, but like you i dont make it that way much and back in those days ill admit it was never.</p>

[Hanoverian]

I'm sure it's "possible" but it just seems so silly to me that there would be an NPC in my house.  It's <i>my</i> house.  What would <i>he/she</i> be doing there? What if I have a toon that doesn't craft?  Would there be an NPC wandering around in my house?      

[SaraBH]

<cite>Hanoverian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure it's "possible" but it just seems so silly to me that there would be an NPC in my house.  It's <i>my</i> house.  What would <i>he/she</i> be doing there? What if I have a toon that doesn't craft?  Would there be an NPC wandering around in my house?      </blockquote><p>I want to know who is coming into my house and putting the work orders on my clip bourd? You telling me they never show up when im there? For that matter im a trusted Carpender for freeport and they couldnt even mail me an order? I got to run down the street go into there basement to get them? </p><p>Come on how bought this i mail them an "open for biss" and they send me writs till i tell them to stop? I would even pay for the conveniance. I would happaly pay the mail costs both ways if i didnt have to go get them and could craft in the comfert of my own home.</p><p>Not that its that big of a deal for me but could they just pay me in fuel? I buy the fuel use it there jobs then they pay me the money to buy more fuel from them? This seems a bit silly to me.</p><p>I know they want me to come out for something but isnt gathuring or at least Broker buying enuf? When i want to craft thats what i want to do not run back and forth like i was adventuring.</p>

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Hanoverian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure it's "possible" but it just seems so silly to me that there would be an NPC in my house.  It's <i>my</i> house.  What would <i>he/she</i> be doing there? What if I have a toon that doesn't craft?  Would there be an NPC wandering around in my house?      </blockquote>no, the suggestion for the writ giver is a crafted OPTIONAL acquired ousing item you can obtain IF YOU DESIRE to have one. They would not be placed in every house as a default.

[Xanzibar]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>one of the old CM's said that there were not banks in the TS instances because they wanted us to get out and get some sun occasionally.</blockquote>If that's the case, why don't they raise the amount of faction you get from writs, so it doesn't take such a gods-awful amount of grinding/being-stuck-indoors.  Seriously, getting to 40k in +150 increments... you'd think they'd realize we'd never see the sun... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />Instead of an NPC to give writs, couldn't they just make it available directly from the clipboard?  At least standard Work Orders (as opposed to Rush Orders).  I could see any crafting organization having open orders that you could pick up and fill, especially as a "regular supplier" of sorts (as proven by having some faction standing in the first place).

[Meirril]

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the disclaimer, that yes, I know things change:Not too terribly long ago the Devs almost did away with the crafting instances in Freeport and Qeynos  Why?  They wanted to get us out and interacting more with adventurers.  (Lag wise it didn't work out, fortunately.)  Notice that there are no crafting instances in the new cities.  Even earlier in the development timeline one of the old CM's said that there were not banks in the TS instances because they wanted us to get out and get some sun occasionally.If this is still the philosophy, why would they add mechanics that made it <i>easier</i> for us to lock ourselves in our rooms and never come out?</blockquote>I havent noticed any of the crafting instances removed from Qeynos, although admittedly I play freep very little. What instances were removed? I typically use the one in Castleview and the Ironforge in North Qeynos although I have guildies that use 2 more in alternate suburbs of Qeynos.Sorry but the logic out getting out and getting sun to me involves more than zoning, running 10 feet to a door and going INSIDE to the bank...LOLI think the concept was completely lost in the implementation if that was the intent. Domino is doing a much better job in giving crafters a MOTIVATION for getting some sun - IE..crafting QUESTS. If the absence of banking in the TS instances was to ensure we get some sun I think they need to put banking in the TS instance and just giggle and say oops on that one.There are valid reasons for asking for crafting to be more convenient to the crafter and not the mechanics of the game. IF/WHEN/AT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE (soon) guild halls are ever actually really introduced this will be a component that will be needed. If adventures can do everything from the guild hall but crafters are relegated to the cities for their play is there really a place in a guild for a crafter??Some people spend considerable time designing and decorating their homes but their is little they are able to do in them. It would be nice if we could actually craft in our homes. it would give us another reason to spend some time there.</blockquote><p>As Calthine said in the post you quoted, "it didn't work out, fortunately". The devs were planning on removing all of the crafting instances and replacing them with the in-city crafting devices we have now. This would also have required all crafters to earn citzenship in Qeynos and Freeport before they could get to a crafting device in either city. What happened instead is that one instance in each village was kept, and the crafting stations were added to the city anyways as well as most of the merchants in town being changed to sell appropriate fuel. </p><p>The stated intention was to get crafters and their customers more face to face and have it to where you could see crafters working as you pass through town. Of course if this was the intent they should of placed all the outdoor stations on the docks as that is most of the town that most players see day to day. This seems like a fairly half-baked idea from the beginning. The only good thing that has come of it is a wider availability of fuel for when you need to cart it half way around the world to some place they want you to do work orders for them but they won't sell you fuel...</p><p>From a role-playing perspective an NPC assigned 24/7 to your house really doesn't make sense. The important person here is the guy giving the jobs, not you. If you were the important person they would contact you with the orders, not wait around for someone to show up. Also they are giving you status, this implies that they are in a better social position than you. Now it would work out better if you could hire a NPC to act as a runner for you. They could check on crafting writs, buy fuel, sell items to the wholesaler for you, just about anything other than banking. Of course you'd need to pay this NPC. I'd suggest a 10% cost added to all vendor transactions and the NPC adds 1g to your weekly rent. Having the NPC actually disappearing from your house for a minute and reappearing with the desired items/writ would be appropriate too.</p><p>As for a banker, I suppose you could have the tinkered banker they have in EQ1. Again, I'd like to see lots of requirements before you could get one and a raise to your weekly rent for having it, or a per-use charge.</p><p>While it wouldn't be appropriate for rush orders, normal work orders (considering there is no time requirement) could conceptually be mailed to people to complete at their leisure. Having a seperate mail box offered by the crafting societies that contains work orders seems appropriate.</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Xanzibar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Instead of an NPC to give writs, couldn't they just make it available directly from the clipboard?  At least standard Work Orders (as opposed to Rush Orders).  I could see any crafting organization having open orders that you could pick up and fill, especially as a "regular supplier" of sorts (as proven by having some faction standing in the first place).</blockquote>Dymus explained when they redsigned the writs that because writs need a fall-back point in case of failure, the start process had to be two step.  You a) get the writ and b) start the writ.  Think of other quests with timers on them (J-Boots comes to mind) - either the timer starts when you hit that step or there's some for of "ready set GO" built in.  That's the fallback point.

[Calthine]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote>With the disclaimer, that yes, I know things change:Not too terribly long ago the Devs almost did away with the crafting instances in Freeport and Qeynos  Why?  They wanted to get us out and interacting more with adventurers.  (Lag wise it didn't work out, fortunately.)  Notice that there are no crafting instances in the new cities.  Even earlier in the development timeline one of the old CM's said that there were not banks in the TS instances because they wanted us to get out and get some sun occasionally.If this is still the philosophy, why would they add mechanics that made it <i>easier</i> for us to lock ourselves in our rooms and never come out?</blockquote>I havent noticed any of the crafting instances removed from Qeynos, although admittedly I play freep very little. What instances were removed? I typically use the one in Castleview and the Ironforge in North Qeynos although I have guildies that use 2 more in alternate suburbs of Qeynos.</blockquote><p>As Calthine said in the post you quoted, "it didn't work out, fortunately". The devs were planning on removing all of the crafting instances and replacing them with the in-city crafting devices we have now. This would also have required all crafters to earn citzenship in Qeynos and Freeport before they could get to a crafting device in either city. What happened instead is that one instance in each village was kept, and the crafting stations were added to the city anyways as well as most of the merchants in town being changed to sell appropriate fuel.</p></blockquote>A couple of bits of info for clarity.  Several people are right.  Yes, three TS instances per launch-era starting village were closed down when they removed the Tradeskill Society system that was a great idea but didn't work well in this implementation.  But what I was talking about was what Artemiz mentions:  they really <i>almost</i> removed ALL crafting instances in favor of the open-air design.  We all asked "Holy [deity of choice], <b>WHY</b>?!?!?"  They said what I mentioned above (ask any of the old-timers who were here with the ?!?!'s over their head and who helped stress-test it on test.Someone asked about increasing the writ rewards so we're not locked in so much.  Go out and harvest, silly!  Get some sun on that pasty-white skin!!  You see, theoretically if you're playing all the game you wouldn't be grinding these.  You'd go out, adventure and harvest some, come back, do some writs, go back out, etc, and naturally progress.  Not never do a writ until they put something you wanted on the status merchant and suddenly try to do it all in one gasp....

[Barbai]

While I am sure it has been said in some form or another with the clipboard item, but would it be impossible to allow another item to be bought with enough faction to act as a trigger item for your highest tradeskill rush writ? There are numerous click the highlighted item quest triggers in the world . The only problem that I am not sure of is if it would cause an issue of attempting to track hundreds of possible instances for an item that could be anywhere in the house to be clicked as a quest trigger vs the stationary ones that are out in the world.

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>From a role-playing perspective an NPC assigned 24/7 to your house really doesn't make sense. The important person here is the guy giving the jobs, not you. If you were the important person they would contact you with the orders, not wait around for someone to show up. Also they are giving you status, this implies that they are in a better social position than you. Now it would work out better if you could hire a NPC to act as a runner for you. They could check on crafting writs, buy fuel, sell items to the wholesaler for you, just about anything other than banking. Of course you'd need to pay this NPC. I'd suggest a 10% cost added to all vendor transactions and the NPC adds 1g to your weekly rent. Having the NPC actually disappearing from your house for a minute and reappearing with the desired items/writ would be appropriate too.</blockquote>Good grief -The suggestion is a bot that can be crafted and placed, not a 24x7 NPC assigned to every house in the bloody universe.The bot is your runner in theory. You have a bot in your house where you cant get writs from, fuel, etc.

[Illmarr]

Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.

[Karlen]

Placing a writ NPC somewhere in South Qeynos would save me a lot of zoning.   I could zone out of my house to SQ and then zone back in, rather than house->SQ->Nettle->tradeskill->Nettle->SQ->house.

[Calthine]

<cite>Karlen@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Placing a writ NPC somewhere in South Qeynos would save me a lot of zoning.   I could zone out of my house to SQ and then zone back in, rather than house->SQ->Nettle->tradeskill->Nettle->SQ->house.</blockquote>When they tried the no TS instance test on Test there were outdoor Writ NPC's in the city zones.  They never made it Live though.  That'd be a nice compromise.

[Xanzibar]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>I'm curious what the original intent was.  There's the clipboard, which allows you to start the crafting portion of the writ.  But I'm not sure I see the point of talking to the Work/Rush Order guy, then running home to finish the writ.  On the other hand, if home-crafting was intended for personal use, I don't see the point of having the clipboard available in the first place.It really seems there were two lines of thought going on here, and they wound up unceremoniously merged.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />@Calthine:  I understand that it's likely meant as a "go harvest a bit, come back & do writs, go adventure, go harvest some more, etc", but the low faction-reward for the writs means you <i>have</i> to grind (to some extent) to get anywhere with them.  67 Rush Orders just to get +10k faction (more or less).  Even choosing the lowest-level writ, you'll level quite a bit just from first-pristines and the sheer volume of work.  And that's not counting any non-writ crafting you do, which will further level you.I definitely don't want faction to be overly easy to obtain - things that take work to accomplish are definitely sweeter when they finally come!  But the sheer amount of repetition needed to get a sense of accomplishment is rough.  I definitely don't feel it's a very "natural" progression, especially if writs were meant to be done in a more casual manner.  Of course, non-tradeskill writs are utterly insane, but that's a different topic.  And then to do it with multiple characters..  Madness!  Sparta!  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Qandor]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>Amen. Can see the bots now churning out writs 24/7. Will open up a whole new industry guild-powerleveling.

[Meirril]

<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>Amen. Can see the bots now churning out writs 24/7. Will open up a whole new industry guild-powerleveling.</blockquote>Isn't that going on now in the regular crafting instances? It is just possible to /petition if you think it is happening now...

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>Amen. Can see the bots now churning out writs 24/7. Will open up a whole new industry guild-powerleveling.</blockquote>Isn't that going on now in the regular crafting instances? It is just possible to /petition if you think it is happening now...</blockquote>Botters bot anywhere they want can and want to as it is. For someone to think that allowing people to craft and writ in their homes will all of the sudden PROMOTE botting is just plain silly. <cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere are you going to actually provide some logical reason and possibly an example for discussion for your aversion or just stir the pot? This isnt a poll, which arent allowed, it is a dicussion. Many thanks.</cite>

[Illmarr]

<cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>Amen. Can see the bots now churning out writs 24/7. Will open up a whole new industry guild-powerleveling.</blockquote>Isn't that going on now in the regular crafting instances? It is just possible to /petition if you think it is happening now...</blockquote>At least currently in public crafting there is the chance to see and /report offenders.

[Illmarr]

<cite>Artemiz@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Meirril wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>Amen. Can see the bots now churning out writs 24/7. Will open up a whole new industry guild-powerleveling.</blockquote>Isn't that going on now in the regular crafting instances? It is just possible to /petition if you think it is happening now...</blockquote>Botters bot anywhere they want can and want to as it is. For someone to think that allowing people to craft and writ in their homes will all of the sudden PROMOTE botting is just plain silly. <cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere are you going to actually provide some logical reason and possibly an example for discussion for your aversion or just stir the pot? This isnt a poll, which arent allowed, it is a dicussion. Many thanks.</cite></blockquote><p>Why? I see a few people have done that already. They did not change your mind. I see no reason to try. I am under no obligation at all to give points for discussion. Now if I were trying to "stir the pot" I would have made a long post using hyperbole and straw man arguments to make my point. But I did none of that. All I did was give my opinion. Am I not allowed to do so? Or are opinions only allowed with the caveat of giving reaosns so those reasons can be picked apart and quotebombed completely out of proportion/context? </p><p>Nothing against you. I'm just refusing to get into pointless debates on forums anymore with anyone. </p><p>I wish you well </p>

[Jehannum]

<p>Some things...</p><p>1. As others have mentioned, allowing people to craft in isolation tends to promote the circumstances which allow people to run unattended, without significant risk of being /reported and at least forced to justify themselves.  It's not much, but let's not trash <i>any</i> tool to prevent that sort of thing, however limited the tool may be.</p><p>2. In the game, as in life, there should be a price for convenience.  A one-time price to permit fuel purchase, item sale, etc on a go-forward basis categorically <b>cannot</b> be balanced based on a one-time purchase price  (as will be obvious to any who spend a moment to think about it in light of differing playstyles).  It must be balanced based on a go-forward premium.  I suggest that <b>if</b> a mechanism to purchase and sell is added to residences (even guild halls) it cost 10% extra to buy the fuels and other materials (minimum increase 1c) and that all items - <b>including the fuel</b> - sell back at 80 or 90% of their value (minimum decrease 1c).</p><p>3. While I don't believe that extended writ sessions in the home should necessarily be promoted, here's something I think we can mostly agree would be nice... Bulk Writs.  I'd like to be able to talk to my Rush Writ guy and tell him "I'd like a difficult T8 provisioning order" and then one more click, for "I would like to handle a single one of/moderate number of/large number of such orders."  If I pick a single, I do one writ and pass in as it currently stands.  If I pick a moderate number, I have to make 5 writs' worth in series (drawing each from the clipboard rather than the NPC) and completing each gives a ping on the series component of the quest.  Once all 5 writs are done, I pass in and get a new set.  Large number would be 10 such writs.  This would allow people to do some writs privately but still require a little open interaction and strikes me as a decent compromise between bot-enabling and ceasing to punish legit crafters for the sins of a minority.  (at least, I hope they're a minority)</p>

[Liyle]

Just out of curiosity... why would anyone even want to bot tradeskills especially in a house? Certainly not for the coin, which is a fraction of what you can get killing trash mobs. For leveling? I guess I can see someone paying money for a level 80 adventurer, but an Armorer? For what?I have my room decked out as a really cool jewelry shop and I think it would be nice to actually craft in it. I think it would be great to do WO's in there and maybe meet a few of the people who come by to buy out of my box. IMHO, it adds a lot more to the game for the crafters to be actively working in their shops than it does to try to punish crafting botters (if they really exist, which I doubt) or some misguided effort to make me play the game according to some script.

[Calthine]

<cite>Liyle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just out of curiosity... why would anyone even want to bot tradeskills especially in a house? Certainly not for the coin, which is a fraction of what you can get killing trash mobs. For leveling? I guess I can see someone paying money for a level 80 adventurer, but an Armorer? For what?</blockquote>I've no idea, and have wondered myself.  They've taken all the sellback profit out of crafting. 

[Valdaglerion]

<cite>Calthine wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Liyle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just out of curiosity... why would anyone even want to bot tradeskills especially in a house? Certainly not for the coin, which is a fraction of what you can get killing trash mobs. For leveling? I guess I can see someone paying money for a level 80 adventurer, but an Armorer? For what?</blockquote>I've no idea, and have wondered myself.  They've taken all the sellback profit out of crafting.  </blockquote>Botting of tradeskills was a problem but quite honestly I dont see it much anymore for profit simply because there really is none. I see goods on the market for less than the going price of the rare components so surely it isnt profit. And being from the exchange server I can say I have never seen anyone advertising they are putting up a crafting toon for sale although 80 fury hitting exchange, etc is common.I love the idea of working in my home as well. I have spent some considerable time decorating it and acquiring some useful items as well. As far as premium convenience cost..well we really only get back fuel as it is so any less and now you are literally paying to craft which take even more fun out of it if there is such a thing.

[wullailhuit]

I for one wouldn't mind being able to get and hand in writs at the outdoor crafting areas as well as the tradeskill instances....then I wouldn't need to zone and go LD to char select almost every time I need to goto the bank for more raws.

[Liyle]

I think if we were to look at reality, the only people who are interested in crafting from their homes are those who value the role playing aspects or those would like to actually use their beautifully decorated homes.

[Calthine]

<cite>Liyle wrote:</cite><blockquote>I think if we were to look at reality, the only people who are interested in crafting from their homes are those who value the role playing aspects or those would like to actually use their beautifully decorated homes.</blockquote>And I don't get the fuss about having to fun for fuel.  I craft in my home *all* the time.  When I want to do writs, I grab a box and go out.

[Diet Coke Girl]

<cite>Hanoverian wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sure it's "possible" but it just seems so silly to me that there would be an NPC in my house.  It's <i>my</i> house.  What would <i>he/she</i> be doing there? What if I have a toon that doesn't craft?  Would there be an NPC wandering around in my house?      </blockquote><p>...sleeping in your bed, drinking your booze, eating your food, etc.  Oh oh, and the NPC should be called Goldilocks.  That would be sweet.</p><p>[Removed for Content], now I want fairy tale characters running around <i>my</i> house. QQ</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not adopt any of the suggestions to allow people to complete the entire writ process from inside their home.</blockquote>Agreed.I enjoy the opportunity to "mingle" with other crafters while we grind away at our trades. Any step towards removing the MMO in a MMORPG is a bad idea. If nobody had to leave their home, EQ2 crafting would become nothing but a big chat room, and I personally prefer more interaction with my fellow players than just /tells and city chat. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[AvalonSpirit]

<p>i personally would be very in favor of being able to do writs inside a house.  i have a large house that i put alot of effort into decorating, and set up a personal workshop.  i organized everything so that i had all my craft tables in one room <yes carpenters use alot of different tables> with a market board and a mailbox.  my raws are all stored in one box of my broker, with my rares in another box.  this way, when my large craft orders come in from people decorating, etc, i can stay right there with all my tables, my materials, and a mailbox and complete the orders in a timely fashion.  currently the only problem i have is keeping fuels on stock.  for me crafting in my home is a personal choice as i dont like when the instances fill up so there are sometimes 4 people all using the same table.  just a personal distraction for me.  and the overland crafting its hard to find areas where you can get multiple kinds of tables in one close location.   </p><p>     if i were allowed to use the 40k faction i have with ironforge to give me rights to do writs inside my house then it would be perfect.  i dont mind stocking fuels up ahead of time.  and for roleplay purposes, if its wrong to have an npc inside the house, whats wrong with a clipboard type thing like the one that currently allows you to start a writ? </p><p>     or better yet, a delivery owl, hehe.  you know, those messenger owls they send out.  my crafting guild now sees me as a valued and reliable member, so why would they not send an owl to me with a message that they had an urgent order come in that they needed me to complete? when done i would send the owl back with a message, and the goods would go via an expedited norrathian express.  not a big difference than an in home mailbox, and no need to add a fuel or sales mechanic. </p><p>     while yes there is an occasional crafting botter out there, i really dont see them necessarily working writs.  do programs even work like that? i would think they would be stuck at the table crafting non stop rather than the other item interaction, so they wouldnt be working faction.  so therefore someone that has worked up a certain amount of faction should be allowed the priveledge of gaining access to a writ giver like the clipboards we can currently access.  </p><p> just a few thoughts <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Liyle]

Just a thought... adventurers can pick up 4 faction writs (one from each) and perform them all without going back to turn in. Most of the time you can find 3 or 4 that "stack" so that you can crank them out without leaving a certain area. If the stumbling block here is crafting equity with adventuring or some such, perhaps a batch WO of 4 would be something we could have.

[Diet Coke Girl]

<cite>Liyle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Just a thought... adventurers can pick up 4 faction writs (one from each) and perform them all without going back to turn in. Most of the time you can find 3 or 4 that "stack" so that you can crank them out without leaving a certain area. If the stumbling block here is crafting equity with adventuring or some such, perhaps a batch WO of 4 would be something we could have.</blockquote><p>In theory that is a great idea.  But see, adventuring writs and crafting writs are completely different.  It is like reading two novels by different authors where one is a mystery and the other one is a raunchy romance.</p><p>A lot of us that grind out crafting writs do the timed ones.  By the time I schlump around and collect all four, the timer has run out.  So I stay in one crafting instance and keep doing writs for the time I've allotted it.</p><p>I think I understand the reason behind Arty's original post.  Here we have these great homes that we take care to decorate.  Okay, some of us take the time to decorate, and we take pride in showing it to others.  There's even a forum dedicated to it.  However, it seems that we cannot enjoy the fruits of our labor.  The only time we go home is to pay the rent or drop a couple of items off.  Being able to do crafting writs at home seems like a natural solution to being able to enjoy what you've created.</p><p>PS.  If any of you have a chance to visit Artemiz's house in South Qeynos, I highly recommend it.  It is incredibly plush and oppulent. /jealous</p>

[Jehannum]

<p>The problem is, while I can see why people would want to be able to do this, whether or not botting in crafting is currently as significant an issue as people believe, this <b>absolutely would</b> provide an incentive for such crafters to proceed.  As it's currently set up, there's a requirement for movement in any given writ.  Not so for home crafting; set the clipboard, the writ-giver, the fuel source and the craft station(s) close enough to one another, and it's potentially possible to set up a series of pattern-recognitions and clicks to complete any rush writ without moving, and that's the botter's ideal situation.  Set up a third-party app to grab the writs parse-calculated to yield the greatest average return on raws, to recognise the names of the items needed to create and select the appropriate one, and to react to crafting events with a priority on crafting completion, and such a bot could conceivably run through 15+ writs per hour, unattended.</p><p>Now, whether the incentive in grinding writs for 2 plat/hour is sufficient, I can't say for certain.  I do, however, think that it's a legitimate concern that such a move <i>could</i> revigorate bot-crafting.</p><p>Edit - had left some words out.</p>

[Calthine]

Gotta watch that incentive argument.  Because if we removed all incentive to bot, there'd be no game left.We lost sell-back profits, the biggest bot incentive, and several other tweaks have come into make botting tradeskills less attractive (or perhaps more troublesome?).  But at some point there's a ballance between making the game bot-proof and making it not fun.

[StormCinder]

<p>I think a better compromise would be to add storefronts when/if they add guildhalls.  A loc that works much like the residences. You click on the door and it lists all of the  vendors available within that 'mall:' Pinky - Armorer Blondie - Sage, etc.</p><p>Each store can have a front room for displays, with an NPC cashier for handling transactions.  As well as a backroom for manufacturing.  In the backroom is where you can have an NPC employee who handles the deliveries/orders.</p><p>The costs for maintaining the storefront are based on size, # of NPC employees, etc.  </p><p>I think the mechanics of such an instance would more closely resemble the proposals of guildhalls rather than the existing house mechanics, that's why I think this should be implemented as separate from homes.  Having a mall-like location to visit crafters and purchase direct rather than through broker would be great, too.  Running around purchasing items to avoid broker fees is a bit annoying right now.</p><p>SC</p>