Level 59 and ready to gripe.

[stinkpickle30]

Hey, I just wanted to post a couple of concerns I have about the coercer class now that I am getting into the advanced levels.  I am currently level 59 going on 60 and I felt my gripes should wait until I had some experience with the class.1.  Mez should be a class defining ability and not a novelty.  Devastating classes like Wizards and SKs can often burn things to the ground with AOE (melee and nukes) and the don't even want/need mezzes.  I have talked to a few end game coercers and they say that they only use mez in the hardest of the hard zones.  Also, why [Removed for Content] mez against Epic encounters?  Now that my guild is raiding I find myself on DPS duty because mezzes only last a couple of seconds on Epic mobs.  More to come on the DPS issue.2.  If mez isn't so useful and my only use in a group is to DPS, why can a melee class 10 levels below me, with mediocre gear, destroy me in a parse?3.  Why do Illusionists get a permanent pet, a BETTER MEZ, and huge DPS?  In real groups it is unrealistic to charm a mob and Illusionists with their BFG 3000 DPS get a permanent pet.4.  In the Fallen Dynasty Timeline's Tower of the Four Winds trials, I am unable to charm a pet (I suppose it is intended and I get a message saying the mobs in zone are uncharmable).  Am I to rely on my paper thin armor and paltry DPS in order to complete the rather difficult trials?  Let's consider other mages' ability to fight in the trials:  A wizard, which has Ice Comet and other devastating spells can enter the zone and virtually 1 shot the mobs that take me a minute to kill.  An Illusionist can enter the zone with a wicked pet to tank for him and do the same.  Has any Coercer out there been able to pass all of these trials solo?5.  I have heard that Coercers are one of the best PVP classes.  Is all class balancing for coercers done based on PVP results or are we not expected to be a viable PVE class?6.  To all of you who will say that I am complaining without warrant and that I do not know how to play, why are Coercers historically the least played class?7.  Has anyone heard any rumors/information about future class improvements?  Do they ever look at class demographics when determining which classes need work?8.   Necro pet beating me at parse, enough said.9.  I picked a coercer to mez, period.  I am regretting the choice as this is my first toon.  Coercer is a gimpy wizard (at equal level we can do 1/4 to 1/2 of a wizard's DPS) and our only defining characteristic is that we can charm a pet when soloing (this is almost entirely a novelty unless you are farming lower level crap).10.  As a disclaimer to my gripes, I have been able to level at a decent pace and I regularly raid.  I am not a noob wondering why I can't pwn like a kool dood. Thanks for listening to my gripes.  Let me know what you think.

[chily]

<p>stinkpickle3000 wrote:</p><p>1.  Mez should be a class defining ability and not a novelty.  Devastating classes like Wizards and SKs can often burn things to the ground with AOE (melee and nukes) and the don't even want/need mezzes.  I have talked to a few end game coercers and they say that they only use mez in the hardest of the hard zones.  Also, why [Removed for Content] mez against Epic encounters?  Now that my guild is raiding I find myself on DPS duty because mezzes only last a couple of seconds on Epic mobs.  More to come on the DPS issue.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) Mezz is usefull sometimes, if the groups knows what a coercer can do but mostly don't know it. In general not many mobs need a mazz, but some do or when tank goes down or while solo. Epic mobs themself can only be mezzed for some secs, but on some epic encounters there are heroic adds and sometimes they are mezzable.</span></p><p>2.  If mez isn't so useful and my only use in a group is to DPS, why can a melee class 10 levels below me, with mediocre gear, destroy me in a parse?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) Do you debuff? do you stun and daze to much maybe? Int/Agi or Agi/str or Int/str aa line for more dps tested? Coercer have 2 main dps sources reactive dmg and porcs. if you stun/daze/stife to much your reactives have hardly a chance to trigger.</span></p><p>3.  Why do Illusionists get a permanent pet, a BETTER MEZ, and huge DPS?  In real groups it is unrealistic to charm a mob and Illusionists with their BFG 3000 DPS get a permanent pet.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) Depents on the pet you charm. In groups Illus tend to buff haste and syngerism (or so) before they use the pet mostly and it isn't unrealistic for a coercer to charm mobs in groups, me at least it isn't.</span></p><p>6.  To all of you who will say that I am complaining without warrant and that I do not know how to play, why are Coercers historically the least played class?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) Coz the are hard need a lot of work and a lot of the right gear <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>7.  Has anyone heard any rumors/information about future class improvements?  Do they ever look at class demographics when determining which classes need work?</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) Coercer is fine for me atm <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> the t8 class set is a bit boring stat wise but that's a diff thing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p><p>8.   Necro pet beating me at parse, enough said.</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) I do sometimes 1k, 1.5k in a good mood 2k and the right mob 3k at 80. </span></p><p>9.  I picked a coercer to mez, period.  I am regretting the choice as this is my first toon.  Coercer is a gimpy wizard (at equal level we can do 1/4 to 1/2 of a wizard's DPS) and our only defining characteristic is that we can charm a pet when soloing (this is almost entirely a novelty unless you are farming lower level crap).</p><p><span style="color: #ff0000;">#) Nope, Channel best emergancy powerfeed ever, nice stuns, Hate Trans+inc, Hate dec, Dps buff. Yes we are no wizzis, i'm happy about that <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[WasFycksir]

<cite>stinkpickle3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>5.  I have heard that Coercers are one of the best PVP classes.  Is all class balancing for coercers done based on PVP results or are we not expected to be a viable PVE class?8.   Necro pet beating me at parse, enough said.</blockquote><p>5.  The die well, thats about it.  There are a couple uber ones, but other than those guys life is frustrating at best for pvp coercers.  Especially in the lower levs, it does get better in the upper tiers.</p><p>8.  A dps spec'd necro pet in the right group can be pretty uber. </p><p>Coercers like bards are a utility class don't forget.  Notice I didn't say Illy's though /sigh.</p>

[EndlessHurt]

if you're so disappointed, re-roll or something. Coercers are bomb! and you can't Control what the Dvs do. just hope for the best balance.

[Obsidiann]

But you don't even have the level 65 class-defining coercer spell Possession!

[shogun007]

<cite>Obsidiann wrote:</cite><blockquote>But you don't even have the level 65 class-defining coercer spell Possession!</blockquote>ROfl

[shogun007]

<cite>stinkpickle3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hey, I just wanted to post a couple of concerns I have about the coercer class now that I am getting into the advanced levels.  I am currently level 59 going on 60 and I felt my gripes should wait until I had some experience with the class.1.  Mez should be a class defining ability and not a novelty.  Devastating classes like Wizards and SKs can often burn things to the ground with AOE (melee and nukes) and the don't even want/need mezzes.  I have talked to a few end game coercers and they say that they only use mez in the hardest of the hard zones.  Also, why [Removed for Content] mez against Epic encounters?  Now that my guild is raiding I find myself on DPS duty because mezzes only last a couple of seconds on Epic mobs.  More to come on the DPS issue.<span style="color: #ff0000;">I only mezz adds in grp , it gives me time to pretend i dps by spamming fast casting dots -)</span>2.  If mez isn't so useful and my only use in a group is to DPS, why can a melee class 10 levels below me, with mediocre gear, destroy me in a parse?<span style="color: #ff0000;">I parse between dps classes and healers except when u have 2 healers and one is fury , fury comes ahead. Since i am utility class no  one asking me about my dps ,  i have tons of stuff those dps classes dont have .</span>3.  Why do Illusionists get a permanent pet, a BETTER MEZ, and huge DPS?  In real groups it is unrealistic to charm a mob and Illusionists with their BFG 3000 DPS get a permanent pet.<span style="color: #ff0000;">Permanent pet =boring , illusionist using pet in full grp is an idiot , same with coercer</span>4.  In the Fallen Dynasty Timeline's Tower of the Four Winds trials, I am unable to charm a pet (I suppose it is intended and I get a message saying the mobs in zone are uncharmable).  Am I to rely on my paper thin armor and paltry DPS in order to complete the rather difficult trials?  Let's consider other mages' ability to fight in the trials:  A wizard, which has Ice Comet and other devastating spells can enter the zone and virtually 1 shot the mobs that take me a minute to kill.  An Illusionist can enter the zone with a wicked pet to tank for him and do the same.  Has any Coercer out there been able to pass all of these trials solo?<span style="color: #ff3300;">Happens sometimes , it sucks i know , but most places mobs are charmable and i can kill yellow heroics that other classes have trouble with.</span>5.  I have heard that Coercers are one of the best PVP classes.  Is all class balancing for coercers done based on PVP results or are we not expected to be a viable PVE class?<span style="color: #ff3300;">Dont do PVP , but i heard scouts rock there , cant be sure though</span>6.  To all of you who will say that I am complaining without warrant and that I do not know how to play, why are Coercers historically the least played class?<span style="color: #ff3300;">Scroll down and read my posts , i cried alot at lower levels same goes for lots of ppl , but they gave up and i didnt .</span>7.  Has anyone heard any rumors/information about future class improvements?  Do they ever look at class demographics when determining which classes need work?<span style="color: #ff3300;">I dont think SOE remembers who we are -))</span>8.   Necro pet beating me at parse, enough said.<span style="color: #ff3300;">He is beating necro as well (have 52 necro)</span>9.  I picked a coercer to mez, period.  I am regretting the choice as this is my first toon.  Coercer is a gimpy wizard (at equal level we can do 1/4 to 1/2 of a wizard's DPS) and our only defining characteristic is that we can charm a pet when soloing (this is almost entirely a novelty unless you are farming lower level crap).<span style="color: #ff3300;">Sometimes we mezz , sometimes we dont sigh</span>10.  As a disclaimer to my gripes, I have been able to level at a decent pace and I regularly raid.  I am not a noob wondering why I can't pwn like a kool dood. Thanks for listening to my gripes.  Let me know what you think.</blockquote>

[shogun007]

In short - Try Betrayal quest -)I always needed some Illusionist best spells like hmmm... Gnoll shape?

[Taharn]

<p>I suggest you just betray to Illusionist. Honestly, there's not a WHOLE lot of difference in the utility aspect of the two classes, since utility tends to play a smaller part than dps.</p><p>One thing about coercer vs illusionist dps on raids, is that often the illusionist is put into the mage dps group for their buffs, whereas the coercer is in the MT or melee dps group for their buffs. This makes a massive difference in dps. Im in a freeport only guild (pvp server) and im usually in the MT group...even being put in the mage dps group with a warlock for propagations and a troubadour for their procs, my dps went sky-high into the 3k realm. Back in the MT group I love trying to churn out enough dps to make the top 5 while still providing what is essentially necessary utility for the tank. </p><p> All I can suggest is that you lean your itemization heavily towards crits and procs, since our nukes/dots cap out +dmg fairly quickly and our reactives depend on the quality of the tank.</p><p> If I was guildless, or on a PvE server, I might consider betraying myself, but thankfully im pretty happy with my class as it is (except for dying so bloody fast in pvp...squishiest class in the game bar none).</p>

[110euph]

Betray to Illus or reroll another toon.  We've got enough coercers who are "ready to gripe" and don't need any more.  Coercer can be an amazing class if you know how to play it - far more powerful than necros or wizards or whatever.  No, you'll never beat either of them on DPS, but you can do things (like, say, solo a named 5 levels higher than you) that they couldn't dream of.  Any class is what you make it.  if you're 59 and "ready to gripe" my bet is that you'll be "ready to gripe" no matter what class you play.