Auspex m1 vs Hostage m1

[zerothbase]

Discussion point for the day: Vest of Force + Enhance: Auspex/Hostage = 7 ticks of Auspex or 3 pieces set bonus of the Spectral Coercion set + Enhance: Auspex/Hostage = 6 ticks of Hostage By my calculations (at 761 int, capped spell dmg, and 2% base dmg cloak): Auspex m1 + VoF = 7 * (1207 + 1475)/2 = <b>9387 dmg</b> Hostage ad3 w/out bonus = 5 * (1285 + 1565)/2 = <b>7125 dmg </b>Hostage ad3 + 3xSpectral Coercion = 6 * (1285 + 1565)/2 = <b>8550 dmg</b> Hostage m1 w/out bonus = 5 * (1469 + 1759)/2 = <b>8065 dmg</b> Hostage m1 + 3xSpectral Coercion = 6 * (1469 + 1759)/2 = <b>9678 dmg</b> So it takes a full <b>3 pieces of Spectral Coercion + the master of Hostage</b> to barely overtake Auspex + Vest of Force!!! The set pieces are fairly terrible too: aITEM 1347325997 811387619:Cap of Spectral Coercion/a aITEM 440803583 300053514:Cowl of Spectral Coercion/a aITEM -466737241 1592405112:Cuffs of Spectral Coercion/a aITEM 353353107 1958813637:Gloves of Spectral Coercion/a aITEM -864134467 -1599694752<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />antaloons of Spectral Coercion/a aITEM -739501996 -666350431:Robe of Spectral Coercion/a aITEM 758343126 -1660348951:Slippers of Spectral Coercion/a The only ones I'd really wear are the Cuffs and Cowl for the +7 crits. Anyone else upset about this?Discuss... --Cogitare 80 Coercer Guk

[Aule]

<p>Not really.</p><p>I'd rather not be forced to wear Vest of Force when there's so many other good options to wear instead, like Jarsath Royalty Robe that's 4 crit 100 spell damage.  Your math also postulates a Perfect_World(tm) in which all of your reactives fire off.  That's different from the world I live in where it's not unusual for the 45s duration to expire with still having charges left.  I'll grant you there are some situations where Hostage gets completely used up, but I find it much more common that I'm refreshing it instead of casting it again after it's been all used up.</p><p>You're also not taking into account the effect of more spell damage being applied through the higher damage cap on Hostage vs. Auspex.  I don't have a scrape with my int at 761, but I do have one with my int at 797.  Capping Hostage there only takes 670 spell damage.  </p><p>HostageBase 1109 - 1339 (with 2% base dmg cloak)Non crit 1294 - 1562 (max 670 sp dam) avg 1428Crit 1682 - 2030 (max 870 sp dam) avg 185640% crit rate gets you an average there of 1599</p><p>AuspexBase 1034 -1264 (with 2% base dmg cloak)Non crit 1206 - 1474 (max 632 sp dam) avg 1340Crit 1558 - 1916 (max 821 sp dam) avg 173740% crit rate gets you an average there of 1499</p><p>Pretty close comparison:1 A 1500 H 16002 A 3000 H 32003 A 4500 H 48004 A 6000 H 64005 A 7500 H 80006 A 9000 H 96007 A 10500</p><p>So Auspex loses to hostage unless it fires 6 times without spectral set bonus, 7th time if there is spectral set bonus.  This still doesn't account for Vest of Force having stats that just suck compared to what else is out there.</p><p>edit: changed subject to indicate comparison is m1 vs a3</p>

[Aule]

<p>More math</p><p>Let's see what happens if we change our gear around and we're below the cap on both spells, maybe because we had to focus on hps and resists and sacrificed on spell damage in order to live through the AOE or something.  Let's say you're only at 500 spell damage instead, and call it 32% crit rate for no apparent reason.</p><p>HostageBase 1109 - 1339 (with 2% base dmg cloak)Non crit 1276 - 1506 (with 500 sp dam) avg 1391Crit 1608 - 1908 (with 500 sp dam) avg 175840% crit rate gets you an average there of 1508</p><p>AuspexBase 1034 - 1264 (with 2% base dmg cloak)Non crit 1201 - 1431 (with 500 sp dam) avg 1316Crit 1511 - 1810 (with 500 sp dam) avg 166040% crit rate gets you an average there of 1426</p><p>Same thing happens, numbers are just harder to read:1 A 1426 H 15082 A 2852 H 30163 A 4278 H 45244 A 5704 H 60325 A 7130 H 75406 A 8556 H 90487 A 9982</p><p>edit: changed subject to indicate comparison is m1 vs a3</p>

[Taharn]

The only reactive where Id occasionally like to have more ticks is our Spell one. This is mainly because the mobs im raiding all seem to do aoes fairly regularly, triggering the whole 5 ticks of the spell reactive, which can make for some nice DPS when paired up with a brigand-empowered Tashiana <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Thatdumbg]

In raids for me, Hostage is almost always recast before it even reaches the 5 charges (I have coercive healing). So for me, its pretty much irrelevant.

[Gi]

<p>Awesome discussion.  I'm still trying to wrap my head around the effect of + base, +crit and +spell damage on our T7 vs T8 spells, so the math is helpful.  Especially if I don't have to do it myself. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p><cite>Ulfgar@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>In raids for me, Hostage is almost always recast before it even reaches the 5 charges (I have coercive healing). So for me, its pretty much irrelevant.</blockquote>But this comment surprised me.  I'd naiively assumed that Coercive Healing was passive (ie, not tied to the coercer's casting of DPS spells).  Guess I better go back and study that one again!

[Aule]

<p>By saying he has coercive healing he's just meaning that he has +2 triggers to the hostage and spell curse series of spells.</p><p>I like doing the math, glad to see the work's appreciated.  It's a fun little puzzle to squeeze that little extra bit out by arranging the various levels to min/max.</p>