Elven Lore - societal practices

[Alycs]

I've tried looking through all the back information on this website.  I am looking specifically for societal information on Koada'Dal and Tier'Dal.Can someone point out to me various areas to find the information?  I've taken what I can from several stories off of the Tavern Tales.  In other words, I'm an RPer and doing my research.  *grins*  I mean, I can't go saying Mae Govannen to anyone now can I?  :pThanks for any and all help.Dejenchri Seamstress - Venekor(among other personalities)

[Josgar]

Koda Dal... (the best race ever) are the most wonderful race on norrath; however, radical koda dal (renda'dal) are very xenophobic and kicked all of us out >.>Nobody on norrath can equal our greatness.To a high elf, everyone is inferior. (especially dark elves) <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I can give you past high elven cities!Takish'Hiz (Located where the desert of ro is now), Fayspire/Tethelin (it was in north eastern Tunaria (Antonica)... a tad west of Lavastorm, Felwithe (Now New Tunaria), Firiona Vie (MIA in kunark).Now we have poor options. Live with humans BLEH. Or live in the trees like our "red neck" wood elf cousins.

[Rainmare]

from what we've gathered via Vhalen, and from roaming around Felwithe in Eq1 and 2,  my best surmise of elven society is that is was/is similar to EQ2 Qeynos.they had the royal family, and a council that apparently ruled jointly, or at least the council had some politcal power. I imagine the council was made up of the cleric guild, and the mage guild(s). from roaming about in EQ1, there's no referances or mentions of Houses or anything of that nature as you find in Neriak. apart from the royal family, we know of really no other Houses or noble families. So while there maybe other nobility, they aren't exactly placed on pedestals. they are probably treated by most the same way you would treat someone you met that was wealthier than yourself.They do, however, consider themselves superior to all other races, being the Firstborn of Mother Tunare. I would also guess this superior air also comes from that they are among the most long lived, if not the longest lived, race next to thier dark/wood 'cousins'. and yes, they consider the woodelves to be like country cousins, and consider themselves far more refined and elegant. the Tier'dal they consider to be a twisted abomination, and would probably gladly kill them on sight as an offense to Tunare.the superiority they feel they possess makes them often appear to every other race as overbearing, conceited, or arrogant. but from the elf's perspective, they are none of those. they just know that they are better than you, they have more knowledge, more power, more wisdom in general. again this more than likely stems from their longer lifespans. after all, the elf your talking to could very well remember having the exact same conversation with your great great grandfather, which is why they appear bored.They don't flaunt it in any real manner, it's just there. it's not like they go around saying 'I'm better than you are, nah nah!' they just have a walk, and a mannerism that shows it. as far as an elf is concerned, their poorest family member is still better than the wealthiest human noble. just because their an elf.

[Josgar]

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote>from what we've gathered via Vhalen, and from roaming around Felwithe in Eq1 and 2,  my best surmise of elven society is that is was/is similar to EQ2 Qeynos.they had the royal family, and a council that apparently ruled jointly, or at least the council had some politcal power. I imagine the council was made up of the cleric guild, and the mage guild(s). from roaming about in EQ1, there's no referances or mentions of Houses or anything of that nature as you find in Neriak. apart from the royal family, we know of really no other Houses or noble families. So while there maybe other nobility, they aren't exactly placed on pedestals. they are probably treated by most the same way you would treat someone you met that was wealthier than yourself.They do, however, consider themselves superior to all other races, being the Firstborn of Mother Tunare. I would also guess this superior air also comes from that they are among the most long lived, if not the longest lived, race next to thier dark/wood 'cousins'. and yes, they consider the woodelves to be like country cousins, and consider themselves far more refined and elegant. the Tier'dal they consider to be a twisted abomination, and would probably gladly kill them on sight as an offense to Tunare.the superiority they feel they possess makes them often appear to every other race as overbearing, conceited, or arrogant. but from the elf's perspective, they are none of those. they just know that they are better than you, they have more knowledge, more power, more wisdom in general. again this more than likely stems from their longer lifespans. after all, the elf your talking to could very well remember having the exact same conversation with your great great grandfather, which is why they appear bored.They don't flaunt it in any real manner, it's just there. it's not like they go around saying 'I'm better than you are, nah nah!' they just have a walk, and a mannerism that shows it. as far as an elf is concerned, their poorest family member is still better than the wealthiest human noble. just because their an elf.</blockquote>I don't consider myself better than you....I am better than you :O

[Kamimura]

<cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Koda Dal... (the best race ever) are the most wonderful race on norrath; however, radical koda dal (renda'dal) are very xenophobic and kicked all of us out >.></blockquote>Koada'dal, actually.. but I'm sure you knew that. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Josgar]

<cite>Kamimura wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Josgar wrote:</cite><blockquote>Koda Dal... (the best race ever) are the most wonderful race on norrath; however, radical koda dal (renda'dal) are very xenophobic and kicked all of us out >.></blockquote>Koada'dal, actually.. but I'm sure you knew that. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>meh too lazy to fix... but yeah i was being too lazy to press the apostrophe. but i do feel ashamed for missing the a >.>Anyways im off to my arrogance sleep. ADIOS!

[Cusashorn]

<p>The High Elves consider themselves to be superior to all other races on Norrath due to thier great intellect.</p><p>The Erudites consider themselves to be superior to all other races on Norrath due to thier great intellect.</p><p>What do you get when you pit a high elf and an erudite in the same room and seal off all ways to get out?</p>

[Rainmare]

 a very dead erudite...after they debate the matter for about thirty or forty years <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Rainmare@Oasis wrote:</cite><blockquote> a very dead erudite...after they debate the matter for about thirty or forty years <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>LOL.

[Ama]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The High Elves consider themselves to be superior to all other races on Norrath due to thier great intellect.</p><p>The Erudites consider themselves to be superior to all other races on Norrath due to thier great intellect.</p><p>What do you get when you pit a high elf and an erudite in the same room and seal off all ways to get out?</p></blockquote>Unfortunately that is indeed the problem that existed even 500 years before EQ1 in EQOA.  Erudites thought highly of themselves, but not as much as the high elves did.  Sometimes it felt like the only reason High Elves allowed outsiders in was to impress them with how "Vastly Intelligent" they were. 

[Zarafein]

<p>ok people you have to finally stop this, high elves aren't the same as erudite and to describe them with one term(arrogance) is 1. too simple 2. not quite true</p><p>"The fair-skinned high elves embody nobility and wisdom.  They are benevolent people who strive for order and discipline, though some consider their <u>stoic nature</u> a sign of arrogance. "</p><p>read something about stoicism, you will soon understand that this could sometimes be mistaken as arrogance, but it's something completly different.</p><p>"<u>Above all else</u>, High Elves are an orderly and disciplined people. Though<u> benevolent</u> in nature, they look down on other races as being less<u> pure</u> than themselves."</p><p>"The High Elves feel their cousins, the Wood Elves, are to be sought out as loyal servants. <u>This noble race views Humans, Gnomes, and Halflings as worthy of their presence.</u> Dwarves, Barbarians, and <u>Erudites</u>, however, are simply endured. The High Elves expend little effort to help them. The evil races are looked upon with contempt and will be dispatched when opportunity presents itself."</p><p>so they don't even like erudite behaviour compared to humans, gnomes and halflings.</p><p>"We are the First Children and continue to keep watch over the rest of the world on Tunare's behalf. The task is difficult and our charges do not appreciate our assistance. Still, we do what we must for we understand the responsibility of being First."</p><p>If you put one high elf and one erudite to an adventure group, the erudite wouldn't wait long to show his superiorty and tell you this whenever he feels the need for this, while the high elf don't need this behaviour, he will shine trough his wisdom, honor,discipline and aura of nobility, he is more pure than the others, but he feels responsible to protect the younger races, he is charismatic, compare for example Firiona Vie to Al'Kabor.. High Elves are far from erudite demeanor.</p><p>Anyway they have fallen some thimes, but than things happend to shake them like the arrival of firiona vie and now you could easily see the events in new tunaria on one hand and Teren's Grasp on the other hand as a sign to act different, benevolent, to work with the others, to follow tunare. Any high elf who still acts almost like an renda'dal shouldn't call himself koada'dal.</p>

[Nocturnal Aby]

<p>Now this is simply my perspective, but I believe the biggest difference between High Men and Koada'Dal superiority complexes lies in what is valued between the races.  Among the High Men, intelligience is prized above all else.  And it's near impossible to argue, even the High Elves have a hard time rivaling the intelligience of the High Men.  They spend their lives accumulating knowledge, and testing this knowledge, and exploring the arcane mysteries of the universe.  Koada'Dal, while no doubt intelligient, rank wisdom and nobility up there with knowledge.</p><p>Among the Erudites, a schism erupted because many saw nothing wrong with exploring the arts of Necromancy.  Afterall, the pursuit of knowledge is paramount.  Among the Koada'Dal, the practice of Necromancy would never be considered.  It's art is rooted in evil, and is corrupt, and detestable.</p><p>To me, I find the humanity of the High Men fascinating, as they've sought to frosake all ties with their human ancestry, yet have kept probably the basist and most discernable of human flaws: selfishness.   As has been said, an Erudite will generally not pass up a chance to put you in your place.  Koada'Dal are slightly more subtle about their xenophobia.  Perhaps this simply comes with age, though.</p>

[Zarafein]

<p>of course the erudite play in a different league than the high elves when it comes to intelligence, their starting stats alone speak for themself.</p><p>Erudites are on a crusade to knowledge, they want to become more than they were and know everything there is to know, regarding this the high elves are even the opposite, sure they like to study arcane knowledge as well, but basicaly they just want to "be", they want to stay the way tunare created them, a shining paragon of beauty and wisdom. Some want to rule again, others know their time is gone/they are fading, what remains is to lead the younger races and  to be something everyone should strive for. They don't do this because they want to be superior, they do this because it's their duty, their place in this world. Thats the stuff i like about elves and one of the parts which characterises elves in most fantasy worlds,maybe a subtle form of arrogance to claim they know how things work(or know it better than others), but they are an ancient race, most of them live for hundreds of years, if one knows it, they are the ones <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Josgar]

So called "erudites" should be called "illiterites" when compared to high elves >.>They went off and possible blew up their entire continent so that they could pretend to not be human spawn... (I don't really blame them, because they all came from the same tribe of barbarians who renamed the glorious continent of Tunaria to Antonica.>.>

[Drager]

ok seriously those are all just stereo types. no matter how u look at it the race does not determine how an individual thinks and acts. a high elf orfan would not even know anything about its culture or heritage so he would not have a superiority complex the same with an erudite 

[Kamimura]

<cite>Drager@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote>ok seriously those are all just stereo types. no matter how u look at it the race does not determine how an individual thinks and acts. a high elf orfan would not even know anything about its culture or heritage so he would not have a superiority complex the same with an erudite  </blockquote>Erm.. well, look at the title.. this thread <i>is</i> about society. We're not talking about some orphan who doesn't know anything about it's heritage, we're talking about society as a whole.

[Drager]

true but i was only following the topic that was on hand but still the society may have a hand in in who you are but it does not determine it

[Alycs]

Folks,All I wanted was information on dark and high elf societies.  If things like marriage practices, places of people, etc were written about in lore/stories/etc.  Meaning, I'm playing a high elf and I'd like more information on her race.I'm a role player and like doing the research for stuff if there IS research out there.  If there's not, a simple, "make your own" would have worked for me!

[Rainmare]

As far as marriage, it looks like Koada'dal are the kind that marry once and stay married for life. for Tier'dal...it's very much a harem type setup. the higher your station, the more servants you can afford, the more concubines you can have. the Tier'dal, at least in Eq1, had some kind of festival where they basically slept with everyone and anyone they could/wanted to as well(Innoruuk supposedly sired Lanys at one of these).The high elf society seems very refined, and nearly utopian by our standards. you don't see or hear of poverty, everyone does what they need for the society as a whole. there's not a great emphasis on wealth and power and family names in the manner of celebrity type status. In fact the only celebrities we hear of is Fironia Vie, the Thex royal family, and Fironia's mentor. You marry because you love eachother, and you stay true to them until Mother Tunare calls you home or they die of another means. they're big on their faith in Tunare, but not to zealotry (save for the corruption of New Tunaria). They seem to prefer refinement and elegance over glamour. in the manner of it's how beautiful the ring looks, not how big the diamond is.Dark elf is very cutthroat. I would almost say our society now is more like the dark elves. Status is everything. there is poverty and we see it in Neriak. there are slaves used for little more than saying yes, that belongs to me. high ranking House members are given an almost Paris hilton/Britney Spears celebrity status. Everyone wants to know them, get in good with them, and know there every move and gesture...until they fall out of favor, then they might as well have the plague. marital practice is almost more buisness then any kind of affection. you marry into the 'good' Houses, and do whatever it takes to keep your position and to elevate it. You're as likely to be killed by the person standing next to you as you are in battle. They are religious zealots in many cases to the cause of Hate, and will justify almost any action through that faith. i.e. I killed that one because he was annoying me by speaking, and by killing him, I inspired hate in his family, and by inspiring that hate, I'm doing Innoruuk's work.

[Zarafein]

<p>on the other hand they don't seem as self destructive as for example drow..., willing to work together do destroy the good races whenever they can, altough it's  worse since the redisovery of neriak: cristanos followers in conflict with innoruuk followers, new ways against old ways, neriak against thexians.. and i think at least 1 npc suggests that the dark elves should focus on the underfoot were they are strongest, anyway most actions lead outside of neriak not only for gameplay purposes imo.</p><hr /><p>The prima guide offers something regarding societal practices:</p><p>"The Dark Elves are elitist and driven to conquest. They are viewed as a sadistic, treacherous and hate filled by other races, but amongst themselves they honor a strictly lawful code. Although treachery and betrayal are lynchpins of Dark Elf society, they are usually carried out clandestinely. To do otherwise would be considered tasteless in the extreme. The dark elves live a life of strict discipline and sadistic violence. They are the keepers of the secrets of the dark arts. They detest all other races and will rarely travel with outsiders unless something can be gained only by doing so. "</p><p>"Teir'Dal names are characterized by a capital letter, or Provincial Designate, such as "L" followed by an apostrophe and a proper name of ancient Elf descent. The capital letter preceding the proper surname was an indication of the province of the underworld called the Underfoot that the proper name hailed from. So two Teir'Dal with names of L'Kar and L'Gez share a common origin in an ancient Teir'Dal province of the Underfoot. In those provinces it is common to run into only those surnames sharing a similar Provincial Designate, but a variety of different Surnames. Only in the larger metropolises of the Teir'Dal empire, such as the capital Neriak, will one find a great variety of Provincial Designates. Teir'Dal names tend toward harsher consonant sounds, with short direct spelling of their names. The true and full names are long, but usually kept private. It is beneath a Dark Elf to share more than the shortest and most basic form of his name with those who do not deserve their attention. There are some Surnames that are never preceded by a Provincial Designate. Those surnames are known as Liege Names. These Liege Names are the oldest surnames from the dawn of Teir'Dal history and demand respect by any Teir'Dal with the typical Provincial Designate surname. The Liege Names members are of pureblood and are forbidden to mate with anyone that does not bear the same Liege Name. Names such as Punox and Thex are two of these ancient Teir'Dal Liege surnames."</p><p>btw altough status maybe not as important inside high elven society as for dark elves, there were at least a noble class in felwithe which demanded proper respect(one lady in felwihe says this)</p><p>from eqplayer guide for the roleplaying game:</p><p align="left">Dark elves love treachery, deceit, power, and pain and suffering. They tend to hate everyone equally, though they are generally intelligent enough to conceal their disdain when it suits them. Dark elves are capable of working together or with other races, but only if they believe that doing <b><i>so </i></b>furthers their own personal plans. Even the most "noble-minded" of dark elves is likely to think of friends less as people to be trusted and protected than as a valuable resource worth keeping around for a while. The motives of a dark elf can be very difficult to ascertain. If he can achieve a goal through trickery or manipulation, only the rarest dark elf will choose to approach the matter directly, hatching instead convoluted, tortuous plots that only the dark elf himself can follow. Many dark elves are driven by adesire toplease Innoruuk, and thus to take whatever actions seem likely to create the most hatred in the world.</p><p align="left">something regarding their food from the gmguide:</p><p align="left">A dark reflection of their virtuous counterparts, the Teir'Dal employ torture <b>as </b>an appetizer, with their victims - sentient or otherwise - ending as the main course. Blood saturates nearly every dish, and the most skilled preparers of hearts receive as much acclaim in Neriak as their counterparts in Felwithe do forpheasants and tarts.</p><p align="left"> you also find some information regarding this part in the dark light woods, some npc tells you alot about some common dishes in neriak.</p><p align="left">i don't know of a special festivals, one could think about the day innoruuk captured(or maybe freed for dark elf perspective) the elven king and queen to create the dark elves, the same day could be a day of mourning for the light elven races, the day firiona vie apperead to the king could also be a festive day,the fall of takish'hiz, founding of felwithe.. high elves also celebrated frostfell, i gues they have some days tied to nature as well like spring or harvest festival..  those all are just presumptions, but it doesn't hurt to make something up for roleplaying which fits well when nothing speaks against it imo.</p>