Just take less damage

[Bardrick]

Last night we were taking on several ^^^ in sky.   We had a 72 Sk (ME), 71 Guardian, Defiler, Tamplar, and a Necro.  I took a few turn with the Guardian being main tank. Agro was not an issue, we both seemed to be able to hold it well.  However what caught my eye, was the fact that the Guardian took less damage then I did.   Now we are both had pretty much the same gear.  Has was using a buckler and I was impressed as to how well he could do damage.  When main tank, I think he outdid me most of the time, even with me using a 2H and offense stance.By the end of 4 hour, I was ready to roll up a Dwarf Guardian hehe.I have to ask, how is it that Guardians are able to shake off damage so well?   Why do I get hit for say 100, and he only gets hit for 80?

[DrOctober]

First and foremost, he probably had more HP than you.  Guards don't have as many stats to try to keep high as either crusader does, focusing on Str, Sta, and Agi (more or less in that order).Second, differences in stances.SK def stance gives +defense, +wis, and a fixed amount of +physical mit along with a large +disease mitigation, unless you're seeing a lot of disease damage, the big bump here doesn't really help you.Guard def stance gives +defense, +parry, and +15% armor effectiveness.SK off stance gives an increase in int while the guard off stance gives an increase in str, which probably made fights go a bit quicker if he was working in the offensive (many guards do).Third, more tools to mitigate damage.While SK's have a wide variety of tools to help heal themselves (and frankly, most guards are jealous), you don't have any way to provide additional mitigation to damage.Guards have 2 short duration buffs that further increase their physical mitigation.  1 is group (rallying cry line) the other is personal (hunker down line).  When a guardian is running these 2, the amount of damage they take is further reduced.As for the use of a buckler, many guardians are stamina spec, the 4th ability of that line is an 8% riposte vs the front arc and 8% parry vs all other directions.  This means that a guardian (or zerker) using a buckler will have nearly as much avoidance as they would if they used a tower shield, but generate about 20-30% more damage because of the 60% double attack from that line.

[Bardrick]

I see, so it is a balance thing.  Shadowknights get hit for more, but we can lifetap it back, where a guardian simply does not take the damage to begin with. Works out as a wash in the end? 

[DrOctober]

From what I've seen, it's pretty much a wash.It does point to one of the core reasons that so many raid guilds use guards as MT's since they are better equipped to handle initial spike damage, but SK's do great in groups when there is often just 1 healer.

[Rob626]

Another reason Guards seem to take less damage is we don't have heals and ward like the sk do. We have a bit more hp total but the sk make up for that with the ability to heal. The total difference in hp could look something like: guard damage successfully absorbed= more hp + buffs sk damage successfully absorbed= fewer hp + heals + lifetaps etc. I would say that, in the end, sk actually have access to and use more hp than an equivalently geared guard. Majo, 73 Guardian for Shadow Guards, Venekor

[Bardrick]

Okay, so what you saying here is, all things being equal (gear, mobs) A healer would use more power/heals keeping the ShadowKnight up then a Guardian?  Or, Shadowknights are better for the lower mobs, where as the Guardian is better for harder mobs.  Not counting epics...Since you get hit harder with bigger critters, where the life taps don't help. Shadowknight get hit for 100, and taps back 35 = 65 Damage totalGuardian get hits for 80 = 80 damageShadowknight wins.Shadowknight gets hit for 335, and taps back 35 = 300 damage totalGuardian gets hit for 268 = 268 damage totalGuardian wins.Epic Here.Shadowknight gets hit for 550, taps 35 = 515 damage totalGuardian gets hit for 440 = 440 damage totalThis sound about right?If I recall, the Guardian was getting hit for about 20% less then I was.  might be wrong though.I know I tap for allot more then 35, more like 100,  but I was trying to average it out over every hit.

[DrOctober]

Sounds pretty much spot on.

[Rob626]

I wouldn't go so far as to say the healer uses more power to keep the sk up than the guard. Part of what the sk does is reduce the amount of healing power healers expend by supplementing with their own skills. Averaged out over time, it looks like healers will use equal power keeping either one up. I would say that, in general the following is true: Guards handle **foreseeable** spike damage better through temp buffs and a bigger hp pool Sk's handle long-term and sustained damage better with heals and taps Majo, 73 Guardian of Shadow Guard, Venekor