Can this be explained (FD change)

[Morgrimson]

<span class="postbody">Brawler and Necromancer feign death spells can now be toggled off, and no longer have to be explicitly right-click cancelled.So does this mean the reuse timer will begin right after you FD or will the reuse timer only start once you stand up?If it means it starts as soon as you FD then thats cool.If it means it only starts after you stand up Why make this  change like this it only hurts brawlers not helps them. Why continue to take and take from brawlers and not give anything back?Or am I missing something here? </span>

[Novusod]

On test the recast timer does not start until you stand. So if you FD under a sea of mobs you are as good as dead because you have to get hit for 10 seconds no matter what. It is like a scout losing invis a in dungeon. Not a good situation. It is simply a massive nerf for no other reason than the devs hate brawlers.

[Kaycerzan]

This is getting downright absurd.First they take away quest updates while FD... Now they take away actually being able to save yourself while FD, unless you have time to run away from whatever your fighting first.And you're right, it destroys it as a means of travel through hostile ground, as I now have to pick and choose where to hit the deck.This is bull. We're becoming the butt end of all Sony's jokes, and it's not cool.No itemization + useless / broken class "defining " skills = no more brawlers. Perhaps they are, in the end, going to consolidate classes... who needs to put in leather fighter armor, blunt melee weapons, and fix avoidance tanking, when you can, instead, drive them all to quitting.

[Raznor2]

<p>Well, basicly they don't want brawlers training down into dungeons either with or without a group and they don't want fd to be used to get past content to do quests (which is why they changed the way quest updates worked)  It was bad for groups that could catch the backwash from training brawlers and it was circumventing the dungeon crawl.  Can it still be used in this form to get into dungeons?  Yes, but it's gonna be harder, you'll have to know some safe spots where you can get 10 seconds or wait on your health and on stone deaf and closed mind to refresh so maybe you can last 10 seconds to the next FD.  It sucks but considering how effortless it has been to move around with FD I can't say it's surprising thy're looking at a change.</p><p>~Raithan</p>

[Splor]

To the above post, do you realize your not really thinking at all? beyond raiding, what you explained above is the only perk to being a brawler. We do less damage than scouts, fine. Our avoidance sucks compared to plate tanks. fine... We have very little itemization, fine. I can't fd to get a quest update? hell no. Thats the one thing that make this class fun and makes it > than every other class at soloing. You take away what defines a class, you get a lot of [Removed for Content] of players.

[Redbed]

<p>I personally have no feelings about this change one way or the other.  I will still be able to bypass content if I wish too.  As Long as it memwhipes the aggro on mobs its fine.  Feign Death was designed to be a failsafe, its always had a chance to fail and that adds to it being a Last Resort skill.</p><p> Monks in EQ1 used it as a pulling utility, that was not its Purpose, Brawlers in EQ2 use it to bypass content and Ill say it "Cheat" the game.  It bothers me when people feel its entitlement.  It was abused, mommy and daddy are taking it away.  End of Story.  Best start putting points in AA for it.</p><p>Personally Ill use any means within the game to achieve my objectives and not apoligize for any of it.  They want to change the rules to make this less a cheating tool I dont mind.  My concern is that it retain its present functionability and DESIGN use.  When I am in trouble, I want to be able to press it and Live (given my % chance of success).  Mess with the Aggrowiping and the Intentioned functionality of it and Ill raise my voice in Protest too.</p><p> P.S If I had my way, It would be never fail and using it would make you invulnable to damage and reduce your hps and power to 5%.  That would ensure it was used as intended.</p>

[Morgrimson]

Well Red I value your opinion like I do of every other Brawler But I don't think it is an entitlement its a skill that we were given that let us be superior Soloers Yes i will be able to still get around and I will not apoligize for that and yes I already have max points in the AA. what I am wondering is why the developers seem to listen to all the other classes crying about a brawler ability and the fact that they cant do what we can. Hence nerfing our class once again. What was it that brought about out first big DPS nerf?? Oh ya Rangers crying second big nerf Oh ya Plate tanks crying now this nerf (mind you I have never had an issues with the changes in the past and I just rolled with the punches) Seems I just saw a post from a ranger that said this nerf was justified  because he could not do what we could because a change to stealth! Honestly it you dont play a bruiser that Has worked there butt off to be max level how bout you just mind you own business and not worry about what we CAN do and you CANT do (this is not directed at you Red)

[Kaycerzan]

Come again?I feel I am entitled to this skill working the way it's worked since the day I, and everyone else, rolled their brawlers. I feel I am entitled to having my one utility skill function in a way that is remotely useful for something than "oops. start over"I feel I am entitled to skills that are somewhat unique to my class and that separate me from being a sub par tank and sup par dps that has to pick and choose his AA spec to be good enough at either, but then has to be talked down to by the other half of the population that "can't believe he's X spec. Why would you be X spec?  you should be Y spec."Now. Outside of the idea that I feel I am entitled to be able to log into the game WITHOUT finding out each day that my class has been kicked in the shin one more time for no apparent reason.... I would be perfectly willing to make <b>concessions </b>on our abilities in the event there is <b>proof not brought to the table by a whiney "I WANT" complaint from other classes </b>in which case we could modify the ability to be better equipped to do it's intended job. While I understand Sony has the whole "may change at any time without notification or reason" clause going for them, three years into the game is a little late in the process to be unilaterally making changes to core abilities of ANY class without at least giving them a reach around, or coming to the forum and announcing it for feedback, instead of popping it onto test and hoping we don't notice.Instead, think outside the box, and take the time to make content that can't be abused by skills already given, and skills that can't be used to abuse content.

[Raznor2]

<cite>Splorch wrote:</cite><blockquote>To the above post, do you realize your not really thinking at all? beyond raiding, what you explained above is the only perk to being a brawler. We do less damage than scouts, fine. Our avoidance sucks compared to plate tanks. fine... We have very little itemization, fine. I can't fd to get a quest update? hell no. Thats the one thing that make this class fun and makes it > than every other class at soloing. You take away what defines a class, you get a lot of [Removed for Content] of players.</blockquote><p>Am I thinking?  Of course I'm not thinking at all, when I post on these boards I duct tape my keyboard to the wall and round house kick it until a paragraph reveals itself.  And even that foot kicking randomness would be more sensible then some of the drivel on these boards.  "Beyond raiding, what you explained above is the only perk to being a brawler."  What?  Have you walked into RoK yet?  The bulk of the content is solo mobs that any bruiser worth his salt can destroy.  We have fantastic tools for the solo game, great burst damage, dev. fist, multiple stuns, mez and feign death, which even with the proposed nerf would still make getting around and bailing out on solo content easy.  "We do less damage than scouts, fine.  Our avoidance sucks compared to plate tanks."  Yes we do less damage than scouts, brawlers are tanks, despite people wishing that we would go the way of the EQ1 monk, we are still classified as tanks and tanks should never do more damage than a scout (dirges and troubadours excluded ).  Now our avoidance does suck compared to plate tanks, when raiding, uncontested avoidance is still a raw deal for brawlers but, "Beyond raiding..." brawlers still have more of the plain ole avoidance than plate tanks.  "I can't fd to get a quest update?  Hell no.  That's the one thing that makes this class fun and makes it > than every other class at soloing"  This class is so much fun beyond just feign death.  It's a great class for soloing, grouping and pvp.  The only part of this class that I'm not enamored with is raiding.  If your lone joy in playing a bruiser is thumping your chest and bragging that you flopped around mistmoore castle to get all the page updates for SoD (pre quest update nerfs) then I pity your narrow vision of what this class can do.     </p><p>~Raithan</p>

[Signal9]

<cite>Raznor269 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Splorch wrote:</cite><blockquote>To the above post, do you realize your not really thinking at all? beyond raiding, what you explained above is the only perk to being a brawler. We do less damage than scouts, fine. Our avoidance sucks compared to plate tanks. fine... We have very little itemization, fine. I can't fd to get a quest update? hell no. Thats the one thing that make this class fun and makes it > than every other class at soloing. You take away what defines a class, you get a lot of [Removed for Content] of players.</blockquote><p>Am I thinking?  Of course I'm not thinking at all, when I post on these boards I duct tape my keyboard to the wall and round house kick it until a paragraph reveals itself.  And even that foot kicking randomness would be more sensible then some of the drivel on these boards.  "Beyond raiding, what you explained above is the only perk to being a brawler."  What?  Have you walked into RoK yet?  The bulk of the content is solo mobs that any bruiser worth his salt can destroy.  We have fantastic tools for the solo game, great burst damage, dev. fist, multiple stuns, mez and feign death, which even with the proposed nerf would still make getting around and bailing out on solo content easy.  "We do less damage than scouts, fine.  Our avoidance sucks compared to plate tanks."  Yes we do less damage than scouts, brawlers are tanks, despite people wishing that we would go the way of the EQ1 monk, we are still classified as tanks and tanks should never do more damage than a scout (dirges and troubadours excluded ).  Now our avoidance does suck compared to plate tanks, when raiding, uncontested avoidance is still a raw deal for brawlers but, "Beyond raiding..." brawlers still have more of the plain ole avoidance than plate tanks.  "I can't fd to get a quest update?  Hell no.  That's the one thing that makes this class fun and makes it > than every other class at soloing"  This class is so much fun beyond just feign death.  It's a great class for soloing, grouping and pvp.  The only part of this class that I'm not enamored with is raiding.  If your lone joy in playing a bruiser is thumping your chest and bragging that you flopped around mistmoore castle to get all the page updates for SoD (pre quest update nerfs) then I pity your narrow vision of what this class can do.     </p><p>~Raithan</p></blockquote>Paragraph breaks are your friends.  That READS like you duct-taped a keyboard to the wall and dropkicked it a few times.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Raznor269 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Splorch wrote:</cite><blockquote>To the above post, do you realize your not really thinking at all? beyond raiding, what you explained above is the only perk to being a brawler. We do less damage than scouts, fine. Our avoidance sucks compared to plate tanks. fine... We have very little itemization, fine. I can't fd to get a quest update? hell no. Thats the one thing that make this class fun and makes it > than every other class at soloing. You take away what defines a class, you get a lot of [Removed for Content] of players.</blockquote><p>Am I thinking?  Of course I'm not thinking at all, when I post on these boards I duct tape my keyboard to the wall and round house kick it until a paragraph reveals itself...</p><p>~Raithan</p></blockquote>That's what I thought.  Ok, move along, nothing to see here *whistles*

[Supp]

<p>Wow, I must speak!</p><p>My bruiser, whom I used to love so much, and who used to be my raid main, has since been dumped two alts deep beneath my Necro and Warlock. He just doesnt have any use, either in raid or group. While he can perform in both, there is always someone out there who can do what he does better. He's just a shadow of what "real" classes are. </p><p>BUT IN TRUTH, I never complained THAT MUCH! Because he always had value in terms of training, harvesting, and shiny farming in some of the more difficult locations. In reality, for me at least, his truefeign combined with a decent ability to take a hit was not a perk of the brawler classes, IT BECAME THE ONLY REASON to use a brawler. I assume everyone here knows what I mean by truefeign, as rogues, necros and SKs can also feign, but not truefeign.</p><p>Now, that said, as a bruiser I was able to respec my FD to recast every 6.7 seconds I believe? (This is not something that monks can do btw) I originally did that to help with feign failure, and that turned out to matter quite a bit. But to be forced to now use it on every standup? I'm pretty sure that if youre trying to feign your way through a dungeon, that youre gonna get splatted for sure before you reach your goal. So even though monks cant do this (the 6.7 second recast), it doesnt matter that much. Youre just as dead.</p><p>I dont see how this will affect my necro, because I dont try to feign my way through anywhere with her, but this definitely sheds new light on what I define as TrueFeign. Now there isnt a TrueFeign anymore, just a watered down version of it. Im sure all the nonTrueFeigners out there that are tired of getting usurped by brawlers on their way to some difficult spot will be happy for the change. "Nooo! Wahhhhh! It's not fairrrrrr!" That's pretty much what you hear as you feign your way past others using the ONLY tactic that gives you value, but only to you. For you are not likely to even be in that group with your gearless, specless and needless self. </p><p>Kunark was supposed to be the big bad expansion. But what I have seen so far is forced solo questing, lack of low tier group instances <b>(no doubt excused from the game because of the forced solo questing)</b>, TERRIBLE itemization and stinking raid rewards. And now I find out that the AA switching device will be crafted and is going to require a rare drop for a high level dungeon? Unfortunately, eq2census is no longer running, so I'll have to give some rough estimates. Let's say there are 40,000 accounts active on the AB server. That sounds fairly reasonable. Of those accounts, let's say that only 10% of them have a L70+ character. Of that 10%, let's say only 25% have two L70+ characters, and perhaps 10% with three or more. that would mean there are at least 5,400 characters on my server that COULD USE this device. Now lets chop that in half and say only that half actually wants this device. So, there are 2,600 characters are going after this device. ASSuMEing there are only say 2 mobs IN THE GAME that drop it, they'll each have to be killed 1300 times ASSuMEing that they have a 100% chance to drop it, and ASSuMEing that there's no hoarding because it's not lore. I also read a vicious rumor that you'll need one for every spec, so two at least to switch back and forth.</p><p>Did anyone even suspect that this item would be so hard to acquire? Do you think there's any chance those mobs wont be perma-camped like the The Sage? Whomever the big bad boys are on your server, they're gonna be on it 24/7. I dont know about you, but I was under the impression that it wouldnt be hard to get because lowbies were supposed to be able to acquire it too. Granted, it's not notrade, so that issue has already been addressed. And if we now figure in the needs of lowbies, now we're into the 10s of thousands of characters in need. And can you imagine if this were WoW? Wow!</p><p>At this point, I am forcing myself through this solo questing so I can get to the raid content and various endgame stuff to ensure that I'm not speaking out of turn. But if, in the end it is true, then I'll suppose my multiyear subscriptions will have to end, until at least the next expansion. And I can guarantee you that I wont reactivate until Ive confirmed that the content I enjoy was included in that new expansion.</p><p>And no! No one can have my stuff! <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Redbed]

<p>I swear sometimes its like Im playing a different game from some of you people.  Why the hell would you regulate your brawler to the position of and only harvesting.  I hope you get so angry about this change that you delete your brawler.  </p><p> Sorry you wasted your time.  This?  This change is what is going to kill your enjoyment of this class?  Thats like saying your gonna sell your car cause your bumper sticker got smudged.</p><p> You were never the best tank...EVER.  You never Did the most Damage EVER.  You were never even the best Bruiser EVER.  There will always be somebody out there better.  </p><p>What matters is do you have fun playing the Brawler.  When you run toward the NPC and Knock his [Removed for Content] down and stunn him, slip behind him and slam a gut/kidney punch into him, stun him again, Jump over him and slam a hundred punch into his back, if your not saying to youself "[Removed for Content] I #$(*ing rule" then you picked the wrong class to play.</p><p>Its about visualizing the experience.  But hell, if none of that matters, go play your warlock or brigand.</p><p> Ill say it again.  This "Nerf" does not hinder my abilities one iota.  Im laughing at this change.  Im laughing even harder at all this doomsaying from the posers (People who view the Bruiser as a means to an end rather then the end itself).  Get the hell out of my class!</p>

[Lizardling]

<p>Ive felt like ive been gimped since day -30, meaning I played the class since beta(but really there has been no need/want for brawlers since after t5. 3 Princes were eventually doable without a brawler) This was the ONLY thing keeping me online when not raiding, the ability to get things done solo. Ive always had no dependency on others and theyve already given others no reason to be online outside of raiding(after a certain point. Like for me I have max xmuting, max AA, max level. I have nothing left to do. Im still wearing MOST OF MY GEAR FROM T7 and yet there is only 1 upgrade I can think of without raiding). Group instances only work for so long unless theyre designed correctly(like 3 different versions of difficulty which was tried once in t6 but failed, different loot tables, named slightly different and more difficult as you scale up).</p><p> May be time to finally switch mains...</p>

[Junaru]

For those who are ok with this change for whatever reason thats fine but the problem is after 4 YEARS of playing my Monk and having FD work as normal SOE up and changes it for what? Because I can run into a pack of mobs and FD then just up and FD again? Sorry but thats a dumb reason to change it.In the end this doesn't help any other classes. It doesn't stop people from FDing thru a zone. It doesn't stop me from getting to mobs scouts can't. The only thing this does it makes our life harder. So great job SOE for making an update who sole purpose is to [Removed for Content] off Brawlers.

[Oldlore]

It's funny how many people minimized the usefulness of FD when we're talking about tanking, raiding, avoidance, etc. equality between plate tanks and brawlers.  But as soon as it comes to a small FD nerf suddenly it's the be all and end all of the bruiser class and the usual "if this change goes thru i'm quitting" posts come out.  I'll admit I made a brawler partly because they were [I cannot control my vocabulary] amazing for farming the heck out of SoS back in the KoS days.  But post-RoK that ain't happening anymore given how freaking hard the heroics hit hehe.Edit (for post below me):  I was referring to the ability to solo named in SoS for master chests.  I don't think we'll be doing that in RoK (yet) altho we can still FD around for shinies, albeit at more risk than before.

[Supp]

<cite>Oldlore wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's funny how many people minimized the usefulness of FD when we're talking about tanking, raiding, avoidance, etc. equality between plate tanks and brawlers.  But as soon as it comes to a small FD nerf suddenly it's the be all and end all of the bruiser class and the usual "if this change goes thru i'm quitting" posts come out.  I'll admit I made a brawler partly because they were [I cannot control my vocabulary] amazing for farming the heck out of SoS back in the KoS days.  But post-RoK that ain't happening anymore given how freaking hard the heroics hit hehe.</blockquote><p>Ahem, says you.</p><p>I had no trouble at L70 feigning my way through all of Sebilis (not to mention Temple of Scale back in the day to see if the dragons were up). I was able to feign my way through all of HoF BEFORE they nerfed Debilitate. Sure I died once in a while, but I absolutely could do it. There's plenty of obtainable shinies out there that are right in front of mobs through cautious use of LoS blocks and edging your way to the perfect spot through feigning. I cant tell you the number of times someone told something couldnt be done but I did it anyway. This is most extreme example of what FD could do, and clearly is the reason theyre nerfing it. It's also, like I said before, the only thing that kept my mouth shut as one brawler nerf after another hit the fan. When I have such an advantage, earned through blood sweat and tears, I will not cry foul as they pick away at the rest of me because I appreciate what I have. When they take this one thing away, all the prior pickings-at-me come to the forefront of relevance. It feels like an avalanche. So there you have it.</p>

[tt66]

<cite>Redbed wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I swear sometimes its like Im playing a different game from some of you people.  Why the hell would you regulate your brawler to the position of and only harvesting.  I hope you get so angry about this change that you delete your brawler.  </p><p> Sorry you wasted your time.  This?  This change is what is going to kill your enjoyment of this class?  Thats like saying your gonna sell your car cause your bumper sticker got smudged.</p><p> You were never the best tank...EVER.  You never Did the most Damage EVER.  You were never even the best Bruiser EVER.  There will always be somebody out there better.  </p><p>What matters is do you have fun playing the Brawler.  When you run toward the NPC and Knock his [I cannot control my vocabulary] down and stunn him, slip behind him and slam a gut/kidney punch into him, stun him again, Jump over him and slam a hundred punch into his back, if your not saying to youself "[I cannot control my vocabulary] I #$(*ing rule" then you picked the wrong class to play.</p><p>Its about visualizing the experience.  But hell, if none of that matters, go play your warlock or brigand.</p><p> Ill say it again.  This "Nerf" does not hinder my abilities one iota.  Im laughing at this change.  Im laughing even harder at all this doomsaying from the posers (People who view the Bruiser as a means to an end rather then the end itself).  Get the hell out of my class!</p></blockquote>Yeah... see, I still respect the fervour you have for your class. Don't have much respect for you as a person right about now tho.Just because something doesn't affect you personally (either because you don't explore the boundaries of your class, or you just plain don't understand what's going on), doesn't mean it don't affect your fellow brawlers. We expect non-brawlers to chime in with "well I've got no idea what you're talking about, but you're wrong" idiocy. Don't expect that kinda thing from one of our own.

[Novusod]

I just saw a ranger pwn General D'veers solo after dieing to him with a healer. Do you see me crying to the devs to nerf rangers? Heck no. It is part of the class just like FD is part of my class. I use it to get places only a brawler can get to. Past seas of heroics and even epics. What will my bruiser do after he loses his class defining ability. Beat up on solo mobs. What a joke.

[Endemicx]

<p>Getting nerf sucks tbh but this one won't matter to much.  We have all taken a nerf before on some class in this game and never once has a nerf stopped me from being able to compete.  I am a lvl 80 Bruiser with gear that increases my deflection/parry and when i train i run around with 45%sow 5% ratonga inc run speed and 10% jboots.  I use defensive stance and parry about 75% of what comes at me.   At low lvls with the lower percentage of FD success i could see the training becoming harder.  Well don't stay locked man you are going to move up and your going to get better and increase your training/FD success.</p><p> Everyone here made some valid points and i do believe that the bruisers raid usage is limited.  But as a tank/dps in an instance grp and pvp i think we are a great addition if not a needed one.  I prefer to off tank as i think our abilities of crowd control in both pve and pvp really contribute as an off tank.  But i have two excellent healers who i grp with usually and i don't mind main tanking with them in the grp.  If you struggle at this practice man and you will find you can get better.</p><p>In pvp bruiser>all imo.  I have enough burst dmg/stun/interupt ability to burn down a warden, i can close mind an illy and burn him down so my grp does not get effected by his mez, fear that swash who wants to hit his temps to early and thinks he is just going to walk over me, parry that rangers sniper shot and then sonic/drag his [Removed for Content] to me, and that wicked snare those conj's have well i want to meet the conj that can mitigate through what i put on em after i mantis leap on top of him.  Sure there are ppl who have beat me from those classes but i have also beat them.</p><p>Sucks to be nerfed.  But i consider myself good at playing a bruiser in pve and pvp.  And this won't slow me down at all tbh.  And if it slows you down i suggest stop playing those 20 alts you have for a week and just practice.  I guarantee after one week your like what nerf.  And yes i play on a pvp server so i don't raid all the time which i think most of you guys do on pve servers end game.  So if all you are looking at to do with a bruiser is raid i would suggest a different class.  But if you are looking for a class that can compete with all aspects of this game while solo or grped then brawler is the way to go.  Thanks for your time=P</p>

[Gnobrin]

<p><b><u><i>FYI!</i></u></b></p><p>The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07.  </p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><u><i>FYI!</i></u></b></p><p>The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07.  </p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote>That should put a smile back on folk.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Aull]

Very nice and thank you Gnobrin for posting this info.

[tt66]

<cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><u><i>FYI!</i></u></b></p><p>The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07.  </p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote>oh hey there! welcome to the bruiser forum!while you're here, I'd really like to ask you something : Is the quote from <b>Cusashorn</b> in <a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=397806" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this thread </a>accurate? Did you really say :<i><span class="postbody">I've chatted with one of the developers that had their hand in that, and they're intentionally leaving their word out of that issue since it's the same folks raising a stink over that change, a change that was intentional and called for by "on high".</span></i><span class="postbody">or are you being misquoted? And if it's the former, since most of the "same folks" referred to are probably keeping an eye on this thread, I wonder if you'd care to expand on this at all?</span>

[Ganeden]

Thank god this is getting changed back. I came onto the forums with the sole reason of complaining about this ninja nerf. I'm glad I made it to page two before I posted my rant <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Redbed]

<p>Now heres a question I would dearly love answered.</p><p> Was the change reverted because it was A) a bad design decision.  B) the Tumultious whining of many C) the lack of fear in a few bruisers here  D) it was really directed at Necromancers the entire while.</p><p> I guess we'll never know but Im voting on D.</p>

[Gnobrin]

<p><b><u><i>Update of my previously given info!</i></u></b></p><p>The update to revert the Feign Death will not be on the 13th as I'd originally stated, but it shall be very soon.  If I hear more, I'll let you know!</p><p>~Gnobrin!</p>

[Morgrimson]

OH NOooooooooo Mr. Bill!!! (Sorry very old Saturday night live reference) I'm hoping that it will be reverted soon and not forgotten cause you know us brawlers will not forget it

[Gungo]

<cite>tt66 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gnobrin wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><u><i>FYI!</i></u></b></p><p>The Feign Death changes brought about in GU41 shall be reverted in update on 12/13/07.  </p><p>~Gnobrin!</p></blockquote>oh hey there! welcome to the bruiser forum!while you're here, I'd really like to ask you something : Is the quote from <b>Cusashorn</b> in <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=397806" target="_blank">this thread </a>accurate? Did you really say :<i><span class="postbody">I've chatted with one of the developers that had their hand in that, and they're intentionally leaving their word out of that issue since it's the same folks raising a stink over that change, a change that was intentional and called for by "on high".</span></i><span class="postbody">or are you being misquoted? And if it's the former, since most of the "same folks" referred to are probably keeping an eye on this thread, I wonder if you'd care to expand on this at all?</span></blockquote>That qoute basically means the devs are ignoring us nor do they care about brawlers because we whine to much. It is basically a customer service nighmare which is not customer services fault but the developers just don't care about us or our complaints or suggestions. We are basically ignored as soon as we /feedback or /bug anything.Regardless of what brawlers say or post. No matter how many people complain about poor customer service or faulty and unbalanced mechanics they flat out don't care. Probably hoping if they ignore us long enough we will just go away. what really gets me is the devs complain that creating items for brawlers is hard because we have special requirements that no other class needs. Tank gear that is leatherspecialized avoidance skillsDps gear on leather armorspecific wpn type requirements unusable by most classes.so when we try working with them to lessen these restrictions. They ignore us.For instance why do we need to have a specialized skill (deflection).why can't the devs just exchange deflection skill for block skillChange items with +deflection into + block.This way all scouts preists and fighters can use + block itemsThis way the uncontested avoidance discrepancies with fighters will be lessened. This way itemization will be easier since most classes can use +block.Why cant they develope the warden into a melee buffing and melee based classthen create leather armour that is more specific to the melee warden/brawler with str sta agi and a little wis stats, + melee skills, + DA, +melee crit, +haste. + dps, and a mix of + melee heal/dam procs, actually + block will help tooat this moment i wouldnt mind if SOE allowed brawlers to use chain or to allow fist wpns to be used by other classes if it gave brawlers a wider selection and quality of items to choose and provide means to provide some support role for brawlers.

[Ganeden]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>at this moment i wouldnt mind if SOE allowed brawlers to use chain or to allow fist wpns to be used by other classes if it gave brawlers a wider selection and quality of items to choose and provide means to provide some support role for brawlers. </blockquote>Great idea <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> then everyone would be rolling on our weapons and we wouldn't be able to use their's still

[tt66]

<cite>Ganeden wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>at this moment i wouldnt mind if SOE allowed brawlers to use chain or to allow fist wpns to be used by other classes if it gave brawlers a wider selection and quality of items to choose and provide means to provide some support role for brawlers. </blockquote>Great idea <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> then everyone would be rolling on our weapons and we wouldn't be able to use their's still</blockquote>Heh, methinks Gungo has a cunning plan.. one that revolves around the fact that there ain't no fist weapons worth spit in T8 anyway, so we ain't got nothin' to lose...

[Morgrimson]

I would love to use chain hehe!

[Redbed]

<p>so hopefully you had the chance to play during the one day this catastrophic nerf (<---Sarcasm) to our class was in effect.</p><p>I gotta ask, not trying to be a dick, but I gotta know.  Did it really hurt?  Seriously, did it impair you in any impractical way?  I gotta know cause I feel like I am so out of touch with the rest of you all.</p>

[Junaru]

I suggested Brawlers wearing chain a long time ago to deal with the tanking issues. Nothing ever came about it and I doubt any dev even noticed it.