So hows RoK treating the Bruisers?

[Vankrooger]

<p>Looks like the Zerkers are celebrating (<a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=396741" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=396741</a>) the new expansion.</p><p>How fair the Bruisers? Are they any better tanks/DPS yet?</p>

[Writer Cal]

<p>I had a decent sized post but realized it was starting to turn into whining, and that's not becoming of a rough and tumble Bruiser.  So I'll just say one thing about how RoK is treating the Bruisers...</p><p>Meh.</p>

[Novusod]

Well questing from 70 to 80 was fun but as soon as I hit 80 I realized it was totally pointless to level up my bruiser over my troub, swashy, or warden. Not only do we have all the same issues as before now on top of that SoE broke Itemization for us and plans more nerfs to drag and FD. One seriously angry bruiser here.

[tt66]

OP's link goes to Zerks happy about DPS plate and a cool lvl 80 spell.There's very little DPS leather and our lvl 80 spell sucks.A second vote for "meh".

[Vankrooger]

What kind of leather does it have? Tank and healing?

[tt66]

<cite>Vankrooger wrote:</cite><blockquote>What kind of leather does it have? Tank and healing?</blockquote>Tanking? Nah, the leather available in RoK is almost exclusively healing. So far, I think I've upgraded a single piece of leather gear and I think I've done [Removed for Content] near all the quests. There is a shedload of nice earrings, bracelets, rings and belts for dps or tanking. But no leather gear.

[Rayche]

But they are upgrading a lot of the Mastercrafted gear to have comparable effects to the quested and dropped items.There's hope, not much, but some.

[Raznor2]

<p>Some things have been good, others have been bad in RoK so far.  The good is they made solo questing a viable way to level up, probably the best way and we accel at it.  The mobs tend to hit for large amounts and in many respects avoidance is more important, also the number of multiple mob encounters is quite low making fewer issues for bruisers keeping agro on group encounters.  The bad has been gear, I haven't needed any of the quest drops but the lack of decent leather for bruisers was glaring.  The real kicker was the lack of a true bruiser weapon from the Anaphlaxis (or however it's spelled) quest.  If you need gear your best bet is to do instances for the quarrelsome legendary suit which isn't too shabby  So to sum it up, the soloing and grouping has been good but the gear has been meh and in raids there's still the same issues there were before.</p><p>~Raithan</p>

[Redbed]

<p>Ill add my vote to the really bad leather itemization and T8 Adept 3 skills that arent even worth upgrading if you have Tier 7 masters.</p>

[SparkleCBP]

They've added some leather finally.Check faction merchants in Riliss and the Renegade camp (in KJ).  Not uber but not terrible either.

[Signal9]

<cite>SparkleCBP wrote:</cite><blockquote>They've added some leather finally.Check faction merchants in Riliss and the Renegade camp (in KJ).  Not uber but not terrible either.</blockquote>Yeah, heard they were adding it to the faction merchants.  Every other class gets their upgrades from quest rewards, and mob drops.  We pay 6pp per piece?

[Ganeden]

The tanking and dps discrepancies between us and other fighters has just gotten larger with RoK. I think we're even more screwed as a class now then we were before Kunark. I really think our class will be a joke, dps AND tanking wise, when Velious comes out. How long before more nerfs to us start pouring in? I bet it's only a couple weeks before they reduce the duration of our new encounter drag (which is an almost useless spell as it is). The developers were just too dam lazy to come up with a couple new spell lines to help us,  I don't think SoE even has a creative development department, my guess is they outsource it to India

[rathi2]

So far i have seen a lot of nice gear for us, so i am not that upset about that front of the game. Sure our VP set bonuses are [Removed for Content] but all classes set bonuses for the most part are awful. We have just lost a lot of ground on other classes because our lvl 80 sucks, our KoS aas were the worst out of any class in the game maybe which still havent been changed, and we were hit hard by the change so we cannot change gear in combat. all of these things has led to us being not very ideal in raids. it is just shocking that all tanks have sometime of physical immunity move through aas or CA besides us, including monks. Some even have multiple moves. there is no rationality in this. wish the devs would take a hint.

[smokedout]

i think RoK is prty good for bruisers considering i dont raid RoK, at 80 with 140 aa's  we are beasts. With all adepts3's and about a half dozen masters, dps spec'd  usually only life burn can out parse.As far as Tanking, well we can get the job done, we deff aint no guard/zerk

[Vankrooger]

<cite>Ganeden wrote:</cite><blockquote>The tanking and dps discrepancies between us and other fighters has just gotten larger with RoK. I think we're even more screwed as a class now then we were before Kunark. I really think our class will be a joke, dps AND tanking wise, when Velious comes out. How long before more nerfs to us start pouring in? I bet it's only a couple weeks before they reduce the duration of our new encounter drag (which is an almost useless spell as it is). The developers were just too dam lazy to come up with a couple new spell lines to help us,  I don't think SoE even has a creative development department, my guess is they outsource it to India</blockquote><p>I'm not even worried about Velious, by the time it comes out I'll be playing Warhammer Online; assuming it doesn't get pushed back for the 100th time.</p><p>Just wanted to know how Bruisers were doing because I also have a Berserker I might level instead if they arn't as wanted in groups/raids.</p>

[Novusod]

Bruisers are already a joke. The thing is some bruisers still hold onto their convoluted ideas about how great they are. The fact is many other classes got huge boosts with RoK while the Bruiser class got nerfed. Avoidance is as broke as ever and leather can't mitigate worth a dam. Zerkers are now like plate wearing swashbucklers and guardians remain the uncontested epic tank. You can't lose with either of those classes. Even paladins can solo better than us in RoK. As someone said in another thread the Bruiser has been relegated to a trade skill only class. If you want to solo there are better classes out there. If you want to group there are better classes out there. If you want to raid there are better classes out there. Well If like to harvest nodes with little risk of death then I guess this is the class for you otherwise go with something else... Anything else.

[Quicksilver74]

<p>I'd have to disagree with the above poster quite a bit.  </p><p>My guild recently switched from having plate tanks to having me (bruiser) and a monk as the 2 main tanks.  We do way way better than plate tanks ever did.  Avoidance seems to really be working somehow.  </p><p>   And when DPS specced, I'll still destroy the parse.... I mean absolutely destroy.  SO I'd say bruisers are doing just fine in this expac.  Good dps, good tanking, and alot of fun. </p>

[Spiv]

<p>Is that with The highest end gear?  Not everyone who plays the game will ever get there, and having to do that just to feel "useful" might be why some are upset.</p><p>I personally love the bruiser class.  I played one a long time ago on Lucan, then when PvP servers opened I moved there and created a Mystic.  Being that you couldn't communicate with the evil side on PvP servers I made a Monk alt hoping it would be the same.  Not even close.  When my guild went exile the first thing I did was make Xepica into a Bruiser, and now that I have retired Denna, I took Xepica back to FP and love it.</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Bottom line-</p><p>With the intorduction of RoK brawlers have seen an abundance of gear directed at stats brawlers were unable to recieve but other classes recieveed from AA's etc.</p><p>melee crit, High haste, DPS, Double atk, etc</p><p>this is turn increased dps across the board for all classes but especially brawlers who lacked those stats.</p><p>In this expansion weapons directed to brawlers were given a better damage spread which is huge for dps increase.</p><p>Our dps did improve,  our tanking is about the same, and our new spell is a decent short duration agro ability.</p><p>Now the issues are currently the same and not much improved. we are not the highest dps, we are not the top of the line tanks, and our raid desireability is limited. SOme high end raiding bruisers even switched to monks for the extra gains. </p>

[Supp]

<p>Avoidance tanking doesnt work. It's been broke since launch. I have no reason to suspect it will ever be fixed. The game mechanics just dont support it. But even if it were fixed, warriors still have pretty darn good avoidance. You'd still be better off with a warrior.</p><p>Can brawlers tank? Of course. Is there any situation where they are the preferred choice to tank? Not really. If you could snap your fingers and pick your group or raid tank, what would it be? It wouldnt be a brawler.</p><p>Can brawlers dps? Of course. Is there any situation where they are the preferred dps choice? Not really. If you could snap your fingers and pick your group or raid dps classes, what would they be? They wouldnt be brawlers.</p><p>This is not to say that brawlers dont have utility or cant perform in any situation. They can, some better than others. BUT, they are never preferred because there is always a class out there that does what we do better. This is true in all cases except for feigning. In fact, popping worms in DT was the only time we ever really had to have one. You know that Centaur named on the second floor of EH? On a contuining rotation, he'll ask for a crusader, brawler and warrior. Ehhh, just stick a warrior in there the whole time. So look at that, something specifically designed for us and it's still better to default to a warrior.</p><p>I think what Ive learned from this is that it's best not to pick a jack of all trades class in an mmog. Jacks of all trades are inherently loners, which is not what an MMOG designer wants you to be. So dont expect any luvins whenever changes are implemented.</p>

[Vankrooger]

<p>I agree what you guys are saying, but if you think about it, many classes in this game are not balanced around raiding.</p><p>I'm sure that if people had it their ideal way in raids, there would only be guardians from the fighter tree there, well maybe 1 Berserker.</p><p>There are several other filler classes in the game, in fact, I think most can be considered fillers.</p><p>The core classes that I can think of that may actually make a differences with their presence in the raid are Defilers, Templars, Dirge/Troubs, Illusionists, Guardians, Brig/Swashs, maybe 1 cong/necro, the rest are pretty much just DPS/OT fillers.</p><p> I read that the main reason Brawlers are asked to come to raids is for the brawler only loot that will rot if there are non to claim them. Hey... works for me!</p>

[Gungo]

<p>Actually in eq2 avodiance tanking works well. In fact so well they don't want us to have bettter avodiance then plate tanks.</p><p>In fact brawlers as avodiance tanks is a misdonomer. becuase shield wielding fighters have BETTER avoidance. Don't rely on the number the avodiance display shows you. Thats the contested avoidance score and has no relevence on how often you get hit. </p><p>get a parser and next time parse AN NPC hit % on you it is substantially lower than then listed avodiance score. on the other hand plate sheild wielding tanks have a much higher UNCONTESTED avodiance score (and subsequentially hit %) which allows them to avoid higher level mobs or mobs with increased to hit % better then the so called avodiance tanking of brawlers.</p><p>my suggestion completely remove deflection from the game. It is in fact a weaker version of block/protection. Instead give brawlers a base block % (make it dependant on our stance for all i care). Then change most of the brawler + deflection items into + block items and allow brawlers to use the excessive amounts of + block items they currently use to further devalue the brawlers avodiance.</p><p>Since block is uncontested and deflection is not. </p>

[augusti]

<cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Actually in eq2 avodiance tanking works well. In fact so well they don't want us to have bettter avodiance then plate tanks.</p><p>In fact brawlers as avodiance tanks is a misdonomer. becuase shield wielding fighters have BETTER avoidance. Don't rely on the number the avodiance display shows you. Thats the contested avoidance score and has no relevence on how often you get hit. </p><p>get a parser and next time parse AN NPC hit % on you it is substantially lower than then listed avodiance score. on the other hand plate sheild wielding tanks have a much higher UNCONTESTED avodiance score (and subsequentially hit %) which allows them to avoid higher level mobs or mobs with increased to hit % better then the so called avodiance tanking of brawlers.</p><p>my suggestion completely remove deflection from the game. It is in fact a weaker version of block/protection. Instead give brawlers a base block % (make it dependant on our stance for all i care). Then change most of the brawler + deflection items into + block items and allow brawlers to use the excessive amounts of + block items they currently use to further devalue the brawlers avodiance.</p><p>Since block is uncontested and deflection is not. </p></blockquote><p>Any chance you can explain the difference between contested and uncontested avoidance? It is something I have been hearing about for a while, but not understanding the mechanics of. Is there a way we can build up our uncontested avoidance?</p><p>Thanks</p>

[DrkEmr]

<cite>augustien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Gungo@Crushbone wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Actually in eq2 avodiance tanking works well. In fact so well they don't want us to have bettter avodiance then plate tanks.</p><p>In fact brawlers as avodiance tanks is a misdonomer. becuase shield wielding fighters have BETTER avoidance. Don't rely on the number the avodiance display shows you. Thats the contested avoidance score and has no relevence on how often you get hit. </p><p>get a parser and next time parse AN NPC hit % on you it is substantially lower than then listed avodiance score. on the other hand plate sheild wielding tanks have a much higher UNCONTESTED avodiance score (and subsequentially hit %) which allows them to avoid higher level mobs or mobs with increased to hit % better then the so called avodiance tanking of brawlers.</p><p>my suggestion completely remove deflection from the game. It is in fact a weaker version of block/protection. Instead give brawlers a base block % (make it dependant on our stance for all i care). Then change most of the brawler + deflection items into + block items and allow brawlers to use the excessive amounts of + block items they currently use to further devalue the brawlers avodiance.</p><p>Since block is uncontested and deflection is not. </p></blockquote><p>Any chance you can explain the difference between contested and uncontested avoidance? It is something I have been hearing about for a while, but not understanding the mechanics of. Is there a way we can build up our uncontested avoidance?</p><p>Thanks</p></blockquote><p>Contested avoidence is like what two kids play cowboys and indians and they run around going "pew pew" and one kid goes "I shot you!" and the other kid goes "Nuh uh! No you didn't! You missed me!"</p><p>Uncontested avoidence is when someone shoots you with a Colt .45 and you either had a bullet proof vest on or you didn't.</p>

[Pnaxx]

I just bought RoK last night and plyaed a little but. Ity was was fun but I cant tell the heroics will be a beatch.

[Etchii]

Well I just got it a few days ago, almost 72.  From what I've seen so far, it is nice to be able to fill up my appearance slots with cool looking robes and hats......Seems the 72 ^ non heroic wurms love to get the occasional massive hit in.  Was hit for over 3k in a single attack phase last night from one of these guys.  Not very encouraging....still have not touched any heroic content yet.I've actually run out of quests to do...i seem to be lost.  I have to let some tinkered robot loose near some zone i can't find... and the other quests are all in the castle.  Seems to be a lack of groups on butcherblock for the low 70's part of the expansion.  I've decided to go do frostfell and attempt to get my last piece of wu gear that i need for the second set buff.  I'll return once i' m 73-74 and attempt to find my way.All and all i love the mobs and the solo quests, but loot is terrible and group content seems overly difficult...plus a lack of people to group with doesn't help.

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote>Well I just got it a few days ago, almost 72.  From what I've seen so far, it is nice to be able to fill up my appearance slots with cool looking robes and hats......Seems the 72 ^ non heroic wurms love to get the occasional massive hit in.  Was hit for over 3k in a single attack phase last night from one of these guys.  Not very encouraging....still have not touched any heroic content yet.I've actually run out of quests to do...i seem to be lost.  I have to let some tinkered robot loose near some zone i can't find... and the other quests are all in the castle.  Seems to be a lack of groups on butcherblock for the low 70's part of the expansion.  I've decided to go do frostfell and attempt to get my last piece of wu gear that i need for the second set buff.  I'll return once i' m 73-74 and attempt to find my way.All and all i love the mobs and the solo quests, but loot is terrible and group content seems overly difficult...plus a lack of people to group with doesn't help.</blockquote>Nice...you have almost all the Wu gear? Thats what I am gunning for. Just won the handwraps a few nights ago and I will be spending as much time as I can to get the whole set. I agree with the solo content hittin g hard. A blue Spider somehow got me down to way below 30% health in no time, and I am not too shabblily dressed either. Was quite a shock. That wasn't the norm, but it did wake me up.

[Etchii]

Don't get me started on the Wu stuff!  It was the reason i quit for as long  as I did.  After many many many attempts I finally got 5/7 pieces, i still need chest & legs.  I spent a LONG time in Castle Mistmoore going for the legs, but they never dropped.  I eventually got frustrated and quit playing over it.  I said i would come back when i could get a few more levels and it would be easier to get...which has happened, and here I am =PI'm just hoping the stoneskin proc is as useful as it sounds on paper.  OH and the Wu chest drop from the end boss in Unrest...totally F'D UP!  5+ hour zone for a CHANCE it will drop, a CHANCE it will be my class' chest, and a CHANCE i will actually win the roll.  Only part of that which is ok to me is the rolling part, as not many bruisers/monks are out there, and its rare to be in a group with 2+ brawlers.

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't get me started on the Wu stuff!  It was the reason i quit for as long  as I did.  After many many many attempts I finally got 5/7 pieces, i still need chest & legs.  I spent a LONG time in Castle Mistmoore going for the legs, but they never dropped.  I eventually got frustrated and quit playing over it.  I said i would come back when i could get a few more levels and it would be easier to get...which has happened, and here I am =PI'm just hoping the stoneskin proc is as useful as it sounds on paper.  OH and the Wu chest drop from the end boss in Unrest...totally F'D UP!  5+ hour zone for a CHANCE it will drop, a CHANCE it will be my class' chest, and a CHANCE i will actually win the roll.  Only part of that which is ok to me is the rolling part, as not many bruisers/monks are out there, and its rare to be in a group with 2+ brawlers.</blockquote>D.d.vvvmroy ru yd. ydcbio C p.annf ,aby ap. cmlroocxn. yr i.yvv

[Etchii]

<cite>Pnaxx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't get me started on the Wu stuff!  It was the reason i quit for as long  as I did.  After many many many attempts I finally got 5/7 pieces, i still need chest & legs.  I spent a LONG time in Castle Mistmoore going for the legs, but they never dropped.  I eventually got frustrated and quit playing over it.  I said i would come back when i could get a few more levels and it would be easier to get...which has happened, and here I am =PI'm just hoping the stoneskin proc is as useful as it sounds on paper.  OH and the Wu chest drop from the end boss in Unrest...totally F'D UP!  5+ hour zone for a CHANCE it will drop, a CHANCE it will be my class' chest, and a CHANCE i will actually win the roll.  Only part of that which is ok to me is the rolling part, as not many bruisers/monks are out there, and its rare to be in a group with 2+ brawlers.</blockquote>D.d.vvvmroy ru yd. ydcbio C p.annf ,aby ap. cmlroocxn. yr i.yvv</blockquote>What?

[Pnaxx]

<cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pnaxx wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Etchii wrote:</cite><blockquote>Don't get me started on the Wu stuff!  It was the reason i quit for as long  as I did.  After many many many attempts I finally got 5/7 pieces, i still need chest & legs.  I spent a LONG time in Castle Mistmoore going for the legs, but they never dropped.  I eventually got frustrated and quit playing over it.  I said i would come back when i could get a few more levels and it would be easier to get...which has happened, and here I am =PI'm just hoping the stoneskin proc is as useful as it sounds on paper.  OH and the Wu chest drop from the end boss in Unrest...totally F'D UP!  5+ hour zone for a CHANCE it will drop, a CHANCE it will be my class' chest, and a CHANCE i will actually win the roll.  Only part of that which is ok to me is the rolling part, as not many bruisers/monks are out there, and its rare to be in a group with 2+ brawlers.</blockquote>D.d.vvvmroy ru yd. ydcbio C p.annf ,aby ap. cmlroocxn. yr i.yvv</blockquote>What?</blockquote>Hehe, this is not the first time it has happened.....on this site, my keyboard starts texting letters that I am not pushing. That is what those random letters are...it was a message.