Change to FD Cancel for Brawler Necro....what about SK's?

[Seolta]

<p>Misread the notes, thought it was referring to a unique bindable key(seperate from sit/stand), and of course the notes didn't mention the recast timer nerf.</p>

[Beldin_]

You just need to press X to cancel it .. i would prefer to leave it how it is because else you don't know if a double-click is queued and you cancel your FD instantly.

[Belaythien]

I hope SKs are NOT getting this. Why do we need that? There are only disadvantages:<ul><li>Recast timer starts after you cancel the spell, instead of after casting it, i.e. longer recast times.</li><li>FD is a panic-button type of spell. If you accidentially hit it twice and FD gets cancelled you are dead.</li><li>How much easier can it be to cancel FD than just pressing X?</li></ul>

[Galeden]

<cite>Seolta wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>From the test update notes Dec 6: </p><li>Brawler and Necromancer feign death spells can now be toggled off, and no longer have to be explicitly right-click cancelled.</li><p> Exqueeze me? I hope SK's were given this as well and were simply omitted as a typo.</p></blockquote><p>Wow you want a nerf? Lol because that is exactly what this is.  NO ONE wants this.  Take into account the major nerf points:</p><p>1) Accidental double clicking will immediatly remove FD</p><p>2) FD timer will START when you remove it instead of when it was cast</p><p> Edit: Woops I'm sorry for the repeat info, didn't see the last person had said the same thing.</p>

[tt66]

<cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You just need to press X to cancel it .. i would prefer to leave it how it is because else you don't know if a double-click is queued and you cancel your FD instantly.</blockquote>Or, if you want a button to do it, bind a macro to the /stand command. Either way, it's a horrible change so be thankful if SKs get to avoid it!EDIT : Just a thought, but what about rogues who take the final INT line ability? Will they be affected by this too, or are Necros and Brawlers the only ones who get to be "blessed" with this change? (Thx for the catch Fyste)

[Tallahasee]

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote>I hope SKs are NOT getting this. Why do we need that? There are only disadvantages:<ul><li>Recast timer starts after you cancel the spell, instead of after casting it, i.e. longer recast times.</li><li>FD is a panic-button type of spell. If you accidentially hit it twice and FD gets cancelled you are dead.</li><li>How much easier can it be to cancel FD than just pressing X?</li></ul></blockquote><p>Exactly,</p><p> FD is one of those skills you use when the [Removed for Content] hits the fan.  It's nice to know that if your're getting stunned or interrupted, that you can spam the FD button without fear of cancelling it.</p><p>Cheers.</p>

[silentpsycho]

<cite>tt66 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Shalla@Valor wrote:</cite><blockquote>You just need to press X to cancel it .. i would prefer to leave it how it is because else you don't know if a double-click is queued and you cancel your FD instantly.</blockquote>Or, if you want a button to do it, bind a macro to the /stand command. Either way, it's a horrible change so be thankful if SKs get to avoid it!EDIT : Just a thought, but what about scouts who take the final INT line ability? Will they be affected by this too, or are Necros and Brawlers the only ones who get to be "blessed" with this change?</blockquote>In this case I suspect you are referring to the end line ability of rogues - not all scouts get FD, just the super overpowered ones.  Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.

[TheSpin]

I just wanted to mention that since the SK feign death can be cast on others it probably won't be able to be toggled off.

[Splor]

Monk's have group FDBoth bawlers can get altruism in their AA that can potentionally FD another. SK's are not the only ones who can put people on the ground... alive...

[TheSpin]

<cite>Splorch wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monk's have group FDBoth bawlers can get altruism in their AA that can potentionally FD another. SK's are not the only ones who can put people on the ground... alive...</blockquote>I'm just saying that any feign death that can be cast on others has to begin its recast when it's cast because if it's cast on another there's no way to control when the recast timer would start otherwise.  I'm not trying to say SK's FD is better than anyone else's.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Splorch wrote:</cite><blockquote>Monk's have group FDBoth bawlers can get altruism in their AA that can potentionally FD another. SK's are not the only ones who can put people on the ground... alive...</blockquote>I'm just saying that any feign death that can be cast on others has to begin its recast when it's cast because if it's cast on another there's no way to control when the recast timer would start otherwise.  I'm not trying to say SK's FD is better than anyone else's.</blockquote>Nah, if your going to nerf one, you gotta nerf 'em all.  SK FD timer (like all others) starts when the target of the spell (or you) cancels the effect.  It's trivially simple and nerfalicious!

[Kirico]

<cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.</blockquote><p>This is untrue (at least on live servers).  Stealth and group stealth start their refresh when you break it (or group stealth when anyone in the party breaks it).  Group stealth does now have a faster refresh, but it is still several seconds.</p>

[Seolta]

<p>I kinda mis-read the note...thinking that it might be a unique assignable key for cancel(which would be fine) rather than a literal "toggle" of the same key which obviously sucks and is simply a way to nerf Brawlers.</p>

[Cayden]

<cite></cite><blockquote><cite></cite><i>In this case I suspect you are referring to the end line ability of rogues - not all scouts get FD, just the super overpowered ones.  Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.</i></blockquote>First of all, what do you mean by the 'super overpowered ones'? I took the INT line for the deaggros since I don't have the luxury of hate transfer like the swashbucklers do on my brigand.  Secondly, stealth still has a recast of 10.0 seconds on live servers unless you have improved it with your AAs, and third, if you break stealth on accident, fine, but what about those times when you run into something that sees through it?

[cheet]

               Do not implement something that is not needed or is it just the simple fact that SOE wants to lose more business than it already has.I can't believe the amount of time and money I have wasted in playing this game only to have the devs constantly find ways to make me quit. If they do decide to make this change go live, then SOE can can count two more accounts canceled.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Kirico wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.</blockquote><p>This is untrue (at least on live servers).  Stealth and group stealth start their refresh when you break it (or group stealth when anyone in the party breaks it).  Group stealth does now have a faster refresh, but it is still several seconds.</p></blockquote>False.  On nagafen anyway - I can re-stealth instantly upon breaking it, and it's been this way since ROK.  No recast timer on my brigand's smuggle or fury's Untamed Shroud either.  I noticed this when someone kept breaking my group invis, as usual, but was plesantly suprised when I could put it right back up wihtout that annoyingly long delay; and I use it harvesting on my Assassin all the time now (used to keep my old stealth on my hot bar to get it back up, don't need it any more).  This is on Nagafen, but I really doubt it's behavior is different on other servers.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Cayden@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><cite></cite><i>In this case I suspect you are referring to the end line ability of rogues - not all scouts get FD, just the super overpowered ones.  Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.</i></blockquote>First of all, what do you mean by the 'super overpowered ones'? I took the INT line for the deaggros since I don't have the luxury of hate transfer like the swashbucklers do on my brigand.  Secondly, stealth still has a recast of 10.0 seconds on live servers unless you have improved it with your AAs, and third, if you break stealth on accident, fine, but what about those times when you run into something that sees through it?</blockquote>Wrong.  The 10 second recast mysteriously disappeared with RoK.  Log in and check it out.  Or, maybe my scouts all behave differently than everyone else's, in which case, never mind, I didn't say a thing.

[Cayden]

<cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cayden@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><cite></cite><i>In this case I suspect you are referring to the end line ability of rogues - not all scouts get FD, just the super overpowered ones.  Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.</i></blockquote>First of all, what do you mean by the 'super overpowered ones'? I took the INT line for the deaggros since I don't have the luxury of hate transfer like the swashbucklers do on my brigand.  Secondly, stealth still has a recast of 10.0 seconds on live servers unless you have improved it with your AAs, and third, if you break stealth on accident, fine, but what about those times when you run into something that sees through it?</blockquote>Wrong.  The 10 second recast mysteriously disappeared with RoK.  Log in and check it out.  Or, maybe my scouts all behave differently than everyone else's, in which case, never mind, I didn't say a thing.</blockquote>Yeah, I think it's just you buddy...I still have to wait to recast stealth on my brigand.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Cayden@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cayden@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><blockquote><cite></cite><i>In this case I suspect you are referring to the end line ability of rogues - not all scouts get FD, just the super overpowered ones.  Besides, the recast timers of stealth and invis was reduced to zero with RoK, allowing scouts to instantly re-stealth when they break it, making FD unnecessary.</i></blockquote>First of all, what do you mean by the 'super overpowered ones'? I took the INT line for the deaggros since I don't have the luxury of hate transfer like the swashbucklers do on my brigand.  Secondly, stealth still has a recast of 10.0 seconds on live servers unless you have improved it with your AAs, and third, if you break stealth on accident, fine, but what about those times when you run into something that sees through it?</blockquote>Wrong.  The 10 second recast mysteriously disappeared with RoK.  Log in and check it out.  Or, maybe my scouts all behave differently than everyone else's, in which case, never mind, I didn't say a thing.</blockquote>Yeah, I think it's just you buddy...I still have to wait to recast stealth on my brigand.</blockquote><p>Fury <u>Untamed Shroud</u> - pre ROK, recast 10 seconds.  Post ROK, < 2 seconds.Predator <u>Slip Away</u> - pre ROK, recast 10 seconds, cast instant, Post ROK, recast and cast are both <b>instant</b>.Brignad (still low level) <u>Sneak</u> is still 10 second recast, but smuggle recast went from 10 seconds to < 2 seconds.  I assume at higher levels, rogues get an ability that has instant cast stealth like <u>Slip Away</u>.<u>Summon Shadows</u> - pre ROK, recast 10 seconds.  Now recast 5 seconds; this one needs more work imho.</p><p>I'm not making this [Removed for Content] up LOL, I'll post screen shots if you want.</p>

[Zarafein]

hm stay low(second self stealth from rogue) is 1 second cast, 1 minute recast, assassin slip away is instant cast and recast but not useable in combat so.., stealth is 10 recast but 2 second cast, shadow is 1 second cast and 30 second recast.

[silentpsycho]

so, now that someone verified what I was saying - if they wanted to make fd instant/instant like Slip Away, I suppose they could start the timer any time they want and no one would complain.

[mattmandude]

Yeah, this is simply a brawler nerf. Just to add salt to our wounds.

[Emo]

i love people asking to dev not to be forgotten in an upcoming nerf...

[gatrm]

<p>Thought reuse on brawler FD was instant anyway? At least i know when I used to try cancelling the fd...using the fd button btw.... it would just que fd all over again so when I did stand up, I immediately fell down.  I don't see what you brawlers are complaining about- even if you double click, you will be able to feign immediately again.  Though, for necros and sks this could be a big problem. </p><p>And what does this have to do with stealth?  I don't know that there are all that many rogues who took the fd AA....at least the ones I have spoken with don't like taking that when they could get something to increase dps.  </p><p>While I suppose it is possible that the stealth for <i>some </i>scouts have had reuse decreased, this is <b>not</b> true across the board.  I suspect you are looking at specialty stealths- I know assassins have an instant out of combat stealth.</p>

[WackyDakky]

<cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thought reuse on brawler FD was instant anyway? At least i know when I used to try cancelling the fd...using the fd button btw.... it would just que fd all over again so when I did stand up, I immediately fell down.  I don't see what you brawlers are complaining about- even if you double click, you will be able to feign immediately again.  Though, for necros and sks this could be a big problem. </p></blockquote><p>Brawler FD has a 10 second reuse timer.  Bruisers get an AA to reduce the timer slightly but monks don't.</p><p>With the change, the 10 second reuse won't start until the brawler stands up.  That's 10 seconds of getting your [Removed for Content] whooped.</p><p>Also, if your FD fails you can't retry until you stand up and wait the 10 seconds.  Any time that you're on the ground "failed" doesn't count towards the refresh time.  This is how "spamming" of FD is going to screw people up.  If it fails we have to get up ASAP for the refresh timer to start counting down, where currently it starts counting down as soon as we try to FD.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Poogy@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thought reuse on brawler FD was instant anyway? At least i know when I used to try cancelling the fd...using the fd button btw.... it would just que fd all over again so when I did stand up, I immediately fell down.  I don't see what you brawlers are complaining about- even if you double click, you will be able to feign immediately again.  Though, for necros and sks this could be a big problem. </p></blockquote><p>Brawler FD has a 10 second reuse timer.  Bruisers get an AA to reduce the timer slightly but monks don't.</p><p>With the change, the 10 second reuse won't start until the brawler stands up.  That's 10 seconds of getting your [I cannot control my vocabulary] whooped.</p><p>Also, if your FD fails you can't retry until you stand up and wait the 10 seconds.  Any time that you're on the ground "failed" doesn't count towards the refresh time.  This is how "spamming" of FD is going to screw people up.  If it fails we have to get up ASAP for the refresh timer to start counting down, where currently it starts counting down as soon as we try to FD.</p></blockquote>Actually the brawler Agility line effectively reduces FD down to about 5 seconds.

[silentpsycho]

<cite>Poogy@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>gatrm wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thought reuse on brawler FD was instant anyway? At least i know when I used to try cancelling the fd...using the fd button btw.... it would just que fd all over again so when I did stand up, I immediately fell down.  I don't see what you brawlers are complaining about- even if you double click, you will be able to feign immediately again.  Though, for necros and sks this could be a big problem. </p></blockquote><p>Brawler FD has a 10 second reuse timer.  Bruisers get an AA to reduce the timer slightly but monks don't.</p><p>With the change, the 10 second reuse won't start until the brawler stands up.  That's 10 seconds of getting your [I cannot control my vocabulary] whooped.</p><p>Also, if your FD fails you can't retry until you stand up and wait the 10 seconds.  Any time that you're on the ground "failed" doesn't count towards the refresh time.  This is how "spamming" of FD is going to screw people up.  If it fails we have to get up ASAP for the refresh timer to start counting down, where currently it starts counting down as soon as we try to FD.</p></blockquote>* and, I mentioned scouts because I play one, and SOE just *reduced* or *removed* the recast timers on stealth in the last update - you know, the *inverse* of what they are doing to brawlers here.

[JonnyBlaaze]

<p>Seriouslly, after 3 [I cannot control my vocabulary] years how can this even be considered? Take this away and watch the low number of active brawlers decrease even further. Its apparent most people have no desire to even play our class anymore. This change is only going to make it much worse. </p><p>We are already [I cannot control my vocabulary], please dont stick it deeper</p>

[Wilin]

<cite>Fyste@Nagafen wrote:</cite> <blockquote><p>Brignad (still low level) <u>Sneak</u> is still 10 second recast, but smuggle recast went from 10 seconds to < 2 seconds.  I assume at higher levels, rogues get an ability that has instant cast stealth like <u>Slip Away</u>.</p></blockquote>You assumed incorrectly. Brigands don't get any out of combat stealth beyond Sneak and Smuggle.