Vanguard-style "Brotherhoods" needed if LU 41 goes live with PVP XP [Archive]

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MMMike9

12-07-2007, 01:01 AM

SOE, The proposed unlocking of pvp xp will need additional ruleset changes. Consider our situation: - a full grp of us have played on Nagafen from day 1 - we're real life friends and couples, with real life careers and finite eq2 play time - our highest toons are equal lvl in T4 (adventure) - we are seldom able to all play at the same time, but completely enjoy full group pvp when we can - we enjoy our developed characters and quest hard to obtain maximum aa (were at lvl 26 when aa introduced) - we've remained locked in order to: - not out-level each other when some have more play time than others; usually only able to play in a 2-3 person grp - explore all the available content at our lvl and below (still more to see and do after >3 years of play) Your proposed change will potentially ruin eq2 for us. - it will be very difficult to play our favorite main toons in a pvp environment except when all online at the same time - if we do play with less than the full grp, we will be forced to run/evac away from incoming pvp encounters else outlevel our offline grpmates - those of us who play more often will have to park our main toons in favor of new alts who will be forced to lvl while pvping individually, which equates to even more scouts on this server Potential fixes: - if pvp xp must go live, implement a system similar to Vanguard's "Brotherhood" where we can share both pvp XP and any earned AA with offline grpmates in the "Brotherhood". Offline friends will not be happy, but at least we'll be able to stay in the game and stick together - change proposed ruleset so that only those who start a pvp encounter earn the associated xp...allowing those being attacked to defend themselves without gaining xp. To not do this guarantees less pvp as folks run/evac to continue the pursuit of aa and/or to prevent unwanted leveling You have a T2 griefing problem that discourages new players and the health of EQ2: - Assuming this is the reasoning behind the unlocking of pvp xp: - Instead consider changing T2 zone levels to 8 down/4 up in home areas, ie, FP who go to the Antonica to grief new players will be able to be engaged by Qey 8 levels above them. This would allow factions to better protect their young and provide additional safety for new players to learn the game and quest in their home territory. - Change your ability to lose fame & coin from 30 mins to 15 mins when in opposing faction T2 territory. This would also dissuade greifing of new players. Please consider the large impact of your currently proposed changes to your established players who have individual reasons for not leveling to the top of the pyramid. I believe the proposed change will result in less pvp, not more, in what is currently the best PVP MMORPG on the market. Thanks!

Whinery35

12-08-2007, 03:15 AM

yes, i think that could be a great idea for ppl who like to stick together for pvp/aa stuff. im the same way, like to stick with ppl i know for pvp and aa.

Spyderbite

12-08-2007, 03:50 AM

<cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote> Potential fixes:</blockquote>Quit griefing newbs.If you are not committing such acts.. hang out in your own faction's starter and T2 zones and defend them against such acts.This is the reason that your play style is being jeopardized. It has nothing to do with the proposed changes on the test server.If you like to PvP, go to where your targets are.Where were all these suggestions before it was introduced to the test server? No where. The only responses then were "suck it up or go to a PvE server".I think the twinks can learn a lesson from this.. more constructive feedback.. less condescending suggestions. (This is no slight towards the OP.. just QFE.. the suggestions presented are admirable.. but too little, too late)

Hinosh

12-08-2007, 11:36 AM

<cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE, The proposed unlocking of pvp xp will need additional ruleset changes. Consider our situation: - a full grp of us have played on Nagafen from day 1 - we're real life friends and couples, with real life careers and finite eq2 play time - our highest toons are equal lvl in T4 (adventure) - we are seldom able to all play at the same time, but completely enjoy full group pvp when we can - we enjoy our developed characters and quest hard to obtain maximum aa (were at lvl 26 when aa introduced) - we've remained locked in order to: - not out-level each other when some have more play time than others; usually only able to play in a 2-3 person grp - explore all the available content at our lvl and below (still more to see and do after >3 years of play) Your proposed change will potentially ruin eq2 for us. - it will be very difficult to play our favorite main toons in a pvp environment except when all online at the same time - if we do play with less than the full grp, we will be forced to run/evac away from incoming pvp encounters else outlevel our offline grpmates - those of us who play more often will have to park our main toons in favor of new alts who will be forced to lvl while pvping individually, which equates to even more scouts on this server Potential fixes: - if pvp xp must go live, implement a system similar to Vanguard's "Brotherhood" where we can share both pvp XP and any earned AA with offline grpmates in the "Brotherhood". Offline friends will not be happy, but at least we'll be able to stay in the game and stick together - change proposed ruleset so that only those who start a pvp encounter earn the associated xp...allowing those being attacked to defend themselves without gaining xp. To not do this guarantees less pvp as folks run/evac to continue the pursuit of aa and/or to prevent unwanted leveling You have a T2 griefing problem that discourages new players and the health of EQ2: - Assuming this is the reasoning behind the unlocking of pvp xp: - Instead consider changing T2 zone levels to 8 down/4 up in home areas, ie, FP who go to the Antonica to grief new players will be able to be engaged by Qey 8 levels above them. This would allow factions to better protect their young and provide additional safety for new players to learn the game and quest in their home territory. - Change your ability to lose fame & coin from 30 mins to 15 mins when in opposing faction T2 territory. This would also dissuade greifing of new players. Please consider the large impact of your currently proposed changes to your established players who have individual reasons for not leveling to the top of the pyramid. I believe the proposed change will result in less pvp, not more, in what is currently the best PVP MMORPG on the market. Thanks!</blockquote>Unless you plan on getting jumped every 5 minutes by other players, you don't have much to worry about. The mistake everyone's making with these posts is:"People who want to XP lock to experience the lower level content will be forced to either stand there and die or level."The problem with this sentence is the last word in it."... level."You don't level from PvP kills alone. You just gain XP from them. This means that players will still be able to kill low level players if they want to, but eventually they'll level up past them, and players that don't XP lock to PvP 24/7 will be able to experience pre-70 content and not level as fast as those who do so to PvP.

-Arctura-

12-08-2007, 11:42 AM

(( the power to solve your own problem lies in your hands.If killing people now gives exp, and you dont want exp, Just dont kill people then.Theres more to do than just killing folks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

seahawk

12-08-2007, 12:05 PM

I think people are a bit confused with exactely how much exp you get from killing players. In the t2 range, it is quite noticible and it would not be too hard to level out of t2 from pvp'ing. To the OP, you mentioned you were in t4, that is alot of killing to level off of pvp. Once you get close to t5, the exp you get from killing players is barely noticable.What this fix does, is move locked twinks out of t2. It has a minimal effect on t3, and after that if people want to lock and exp off of kills, then it is going to take them a long time to level out. So, to the OP, I really would not worry too much about the exp for kills, ruining your group of friends.All in all, I think this is a wonderful fix. I could care less if everyone was in t8 fighting. To be honest, in tier 8 I get about .1 percent exp for a kill. That is 10 kills for 1 percent exp, 100 kills for 10 percent exp, and 1000k to level one level in t8. I have never locked, as I like the high end pvp, but that is me.As an aside, each time their is a change to this game I read tons and tons of posts about how it is going to ruin the game. But each time the fix goes live, it is never as bad as it was predicted and most the times the changes are for the best. That is just my opinion, but then again, I have always been a half glass full kind of person.Also, this is just a game for me. I try to not invest too much personal energy into things I cannot control. To use an overused saying.. "it is what it is". I just try to roll with the punches.** now, if SoE will fix the messed up one shot pets in the Kunzar JUngle, I would be happy!

wellehad0

12-08-2007, 12:21 PM

<cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( the power to solve your own problem lies in your hands.If killing people now gives exp, and you dont want exp, Just dont kill people then.Theres more to do than just killing folks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /> </blockquote>ya silly us wanting to PVP on a PVP server what where we thinking<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Uilamin

12-08-2007, 04:27 PM

<cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE, The proposed unlocking of pvp xp will need additional ruleset changes. Consider our situation: - a full grp of us have played on Nagafen from day 1 - we're real life friends and couples, with real life careers and finite eq2 play time - our highest toons are equal lvl in T4 (adventure) - we are seldom able to all play at the same time, but completely enjoy full group pvp when we can - we enjoy our developed characters and quest hard to obtain maximum aa (were at lvl 26 when aa introduced) - we've remained locked in order to: - not out-level each other when some have more play time than others; usually only able to play in a 2-3 person grp - explore all the available content at our lvl and below (still more to see and do after >3 years of play) Your proposed change will potentially ruin eq2 for us. - it will be very difficult to play our favorite main toons in a pvp environment except when all online at the same time - if we do play with less than the full grp, we will be forced to run/evac away from incoming pvp encounters else outlevel our offline grpmates - those of us who play more often will have to park our main toons in favor of new alts who will be forced to lvl while pvping individually, which equates to even more scouts on this server Potential fixes: - if pvp xp must go live, implement a system similar to Vanguard's "Brotherhood" where we can share both pvp XP and any earned AA with offline grpmates in the "Brotherhood". Offline friends will not be happy, but at least we'll be able to stay in the game and stick together - change proposed ruleset so that only those who start a pvp encounter earn the associated xp...allowing those being attacked to defend themselves without gaining xp. To not do this guarantees less pvp as folks run/evac to continue the pursuit of aa and/or to prevent unwanted leveling You have a T2 griefing problem that discourages new players and the health of EQ2: - Assuming this is the reasoning behind the unlocking of pvp xp: - Instead consider changing T2 zone levels to 8 down/4 up in home areas, ie, FP who go to the Antonica to grief new players will be able to be engaged by Qey 8 levels above them. This would allow factions to better protect their young and provide additional safety for new players to learn the game and quest in their home territory. - Change your ability to lose fame & coin from 30 mins to 15 mins when in opposing faction T2 territory. This would also dissuade greifing of new players. Please consider the large impact of your currently proposed changes to your established players who have individual reasons for not leveling to the top of the pyramid. I believe the proposed change will result in less pvp, not more, in what is currently the best PVP MMORPG on the market. Thanks!</blockquote>Well I hate to be the one to point the finger and say stop making stuff up, but lots of things in your post don't make sense, such as: - a full grp of us have played on Nagafen from day 1 - we enjoy our developed characters and quest hard to obtain maximum aa (were at lvl 26 when aa introduced)When nagafen came out you could get AA at lvl20. - a full grp of us have played on Nagafen from day 1- explore all the available content at our lvl and below (still more to see and do after >3 years of play)The server had been out for a lot less time than that. If you are talking about another server then the locking change has no effect on you.As for pvp always giving xp, the xp it is going to give will most likely be horrible. Why? Because they aren't going to want people to exploit it to level up fast. Really even at lvl10 it will probably be about 50 or so people for a level, and by lvl20 that will be 200 or 300 people, if not more. So for your T4 toons, it will probably be a 600-1000 pvp kills per level. I strongly doubt that will have much affect on how you level up as a group. Sure one person will get a percent or two ahead of someone else, but unless one of you is out constantly pvp'ing you should remain close.

MMMike9

12-08-2007, 05:55 PM

We've been playing for over 3 years, but I was mistaken...the first year or so was pve and then we switched to Nagafen on day 1 some two years ago or so, my mistake. We still get named aa credit the the occasional discovery ding dispite playing in T4 and below for so long...massive good content in this game.You sure aa was already in-game when pvp introduced? Whatever...not pertinent...we didn't start pursuing aa until level 26 and have therefure been questing hard to top it off. 3 of us play often and 3 of us play seldom. We can't usually quest all together, and we PvP constantly as we quest, so this change will pose serious issues if any significant xp is given for pvp. The 3 of us more hardcore players will often avoid PvP...which isn't what Sony should be advocating. The proposed LU will make XP controllable on PvE servers and not controllable on PvP servers, which is bad. ...and I think other proposed changes in the forums would achieve much better results as Sony attempts to fix identified PvP problems.

deepruntramp

12-08-2007, 09:24 PM

If you're in Tier 4, turn on combat xp for a few minutes and see how little XP you actually gain. This change will hardly affect you. It's not like you'll gain 10% per kill. Calm down.

Rutaq

12-09-2007, 02:56 AM

<cite>Qslaughter@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>-Arctura- wrote:</cite><blockquote>(( the power to solve your own problem lies in your hands.If killing people now gives exp, and you dont want exp, Just don't kill people then.Theres more to do than just killing folks <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"> </blockquote>ya silly us wanting to PVP on a PVP server what where we thinking<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Silly you for thinking you could avoid the single most fundamental thing about EQ2, Levelling. You can enjoy PvP just like the rest of us, but you won't get to play with a guaranteed min maxed, twinked, Capped AA, Perfectly finished character against newbs for the rest of your gaming career. The ball is on your court, if you are locking to enjoy the lovely T2 content then simply don't fight back in PvP and enjoy T2 forever, if you are looking to lord your overpowered advantage over other players then enjoy your Uber Kill count and mandatory XP and be prepared for a lot of retwinking since T3, T4, T5 ,etc... are right around the corner.

MMMike9

12-09-2007, 02:43 PM

A large % of the EQ2 population really enjoying tricking out their toons...it's part of this game...otherwise we might as well play a PS2 game without all the cool stuff. All I can say is this grp will remain aa capped, well equipped and at the same level. As I see it, that means much less pvp with the new rules unless they add a "Brotherhoods" mechanic or they figure out how to properly scale the broken pvp mentoring system. Less PvP is bad on a pvp server.

Exan K

12-09-2007, 04:10 PM

My only worry is Faction. will this make it impossible to get t3 pvp gear when you hit lvl 20 and 23 while doing a few quests for aa as well, or are you just going to be able to kill pvp style only or you'll not reach the faction you need for the gear.If that happens will we see an increase in Faction earned form pvp kills, and would be it retroactive at all?

seahawk

12-09-2007, 09:29 PM

<cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A large % of the EQ2 population really enjoying tricking out their toons...it's part of this game...otherwise we might as well play a PS2 game without all the cool stuff. All I can say is this grp will remain aa capped, well equipped and at the same level. As I see it, that means much less pvp with the new rules unless they add a "Brotherhoods" mechanic or they figure out how to properly scale the broken pvp mentoring system. Less PvP is bad on a pvp server.</blockquote>And you still can!! The only difference is now you won't be level 18 and twinked, you will be level 38ish and twinked. There will be a point in the game, where experience for any given pvp kill will be so minute that it really doesn't effect you. This tweak to the game basically affects tier 2 twinks. Whatever "that point in the game is" is where most of you type of playstyle people will stay. IT's not like this change will rocket you to tier 8. IT's not like you are getting 5 percent per kill and after 20 kills you gain a level. In tier 8 I gain .1 percent per solo kill.10 kills = 1 percent100 kills = 10 percent 1000 kills = 100 percent.Even if you get 1 percent per kill at level 35, it will take 100 fresh kills to get a level and each level gained that experience gets less and less, letting you stay in that level much longer.Personally, I think the "outrage" over this change is a bit overrated. All it really does, is move the twinks up a tier or two and alleviating tier 2 for new people. Plain and simple.

Rutaq

12-09-2007, 10:18 PM

seahawk

12-09-2007, 11:28 PM

<cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A large % of the EQ2 population really enjoying tricking out their toons...it's part of this game...otherwise we might as well play a PS2 game without all the cool stuff. All I can say is this grp will remain aa capped, well equipped and at the same level. As I see it, that means much less pvp with the new rules unless they add a "Brotherhoods" mechanic or they figure out how to properly scale the broken pvp mentoring system. Less PvP is bad on a pvp server.</blockquote>The problem with the large % of EQ2 tricked out toons is that they enjoy preying on the EQ players that aren't tricked out. Level locking has gone from a cute way to enjoy PvE content to a life long guarantee of overpowered PvP. Players can still group, cap aa's and be well equipped but they can only enjoy T2 and T3 for a limited amount of time before being pushed into the mid levels of the game where things are better balanced and players are more experienced. Less abusive PvP at the expense of non twinked new players is always a good thing on a PvP server.</blockquote>^^^ what he said. Well put!

Zacarus

12-10-2007, 12:32 AM

<cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A large % of the EQ2 population really enjoying tricking out their toons...it's part of this game...otherwise we might as well play a PS2 game without all the cool stuff. All I can say is this grp will remain aa capped, well equipped and at the same level. As I see it, that means much less pvp with the new rules unless they add a "Brotherhoods" mechanic or they figure out how to properly scale the broken pvp mentoring system. Less PvP is bad on a pvp server.</blockquote>The problem with the large % of EQ2 tricked out toons is that they enjoy preying on the EQ players that aren't tricked out. Level locking has gone from a cute way to enjoy PvE content to a life long guarantee of overpowered PvP. Players can still group, cap aa's and be well equipped but they can only enjoy T2 and T3 for a limited amount of time before being pushed into the mid levels of the game where things are better balanced and players are more experienced. Less abusive PvP at the expense of non twinked new players is always a good thing on a PvP server.</blockquote>^^^ what he said. Well put!</blockquote>Do you really think people who gear up for a competitive advantage won't continue to do so? Please, get real. And that part about "abusive PVP" is hilarious. SoE programmed those time consuming quests which drop legendary or fabled items. They programmed the ability to harvest and tradeskill. How is investing time and taking advantage of those game attributes for a competitive advantage abusive?The rest of the tiers just got less safe is all. Oh, and (incredibly) evac got even more valuable. Welcome to EverRun.The Op is seeking a way to retain a playstyle based on a ruleset SoE established years ago. What's wrong with that? In PvE groups can manage different real life schedules and game-time schedules, and continue to stay at the same level. What's wrong with wanting that ability in PvP? Let me guess the answer, "You can do that, just don't engage the fight." That's why I said, "welcome to EverRun."

tass

12-10-2007, 12:37 AM

uhuh. So poll. how many of those high levels do you think are just waiting for a fresh piece of [Removed for Content] to accidentally kill 1 player to many? Its the hbo series oz and the dropped soap all over again in the future.

seahawk

12-10-2007, 01:20 AM

<cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>seahawk91 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rutaq wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>A large % of the EQ2 population really enjoying tricking out their toons...it's part of this game...otherwise we might as well play a PS2 game without all the cool stuff. All I can say is this grp will remain aa capped, well equipped and at the same level. As I see it, that means much less pvp with the new rules unless they add a "Brotherhoods" mechanic or they figure out how to properly scale the broken pvp mentoring system. Less PvP is bad on a pvp server.</blockquote>The problem with the large % of EQ2 tricked out toons is that they enjoy preying on the EQ players that aren't tricked out. Level locking has gone from a cute way to enjoy PvE content to a life long guarantee of overpowered PvP. Players can still group, cap aa's and be well equipped but they can only enjoy T2 and T3 for a limited amount of time before being pushed into the mid levels of the game where things are better balanced and players are more experienced. Less abusive PvP at the expense of non twinked new players is always a good thing on a PvP server.</blockquote>^^^ what he said. Well put!</blockquote>Do you really think people who gear up for a competitive advantage won't continue to do so? Please, get real. And that part about "abusive PVP" is hilarious. SoE programmed those time consuming quests which drop legendary or fabled items. They programmed the ability to harvest and tradeskill. How is investing time and taking advantage of those game attributes for a competitive advantage abusive?The rest of the tiers just got less safe is all. Oh, and (incredibly) evac got even more valuable. Welcome to EverRun.The Op is seeking a way to retain a playstyle based on a ruleset SoE established years ago. What's wrong with that? In PvE groups can manage different real life schedules and game-time schedules, and continue to stay at the same level. What's wrong with wanting that ability in PvP? Let me guess the answer, "You can do that, just don't engage the fight." That's why I said, "welcome to EverRun."</blockquote>I don't know why I even bother with these boards.. /sighYou are right, the sky has fallen and eq2 pvp is doomed. The system is officially broke. I am done with the whole lot of anyone locked. Either adapt to the new changes or don't let the door hit you in the [Removed for Content].In the meantime I will get my warlock to 80, then my 70 swashi to 80, and finally my 67 monk to level 80.

Lutefisk

12-10-2007, 07:20 AM

Hmmmmmm .... nobody is addressing the "Brotherhood" part of the suggestion, which would be a great addition to BOTH PvP and PvE.And nobody seems to be providing any credible information about the amount of XP gained from PvP either. A lot of the supposed assurances ring hollow "you won't notice the XP gain once you're out of T2" sounds more like the dentist assuring you that once the drilling stops, you won't notice the lack of an anesthetic.And another issue ... why are so many people so hostile to a group of adults with jobs and other responsibilities who want to be able play together?

seahawk

12-10-2007, 11:18 AM

<cite>Lutefisk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmmmmmm .... nobody is addressing the "Brotherhood" part of the suggestion, which would be a great addition to BOTH PvP and PvE.And nobody seems to be providing any credible information about the amount of XP gained from PvP either. A lot of the supposed assurances ring hollow "you won't notice the XP gain once you're out of T2" sounds more like the dentist assuring you that once the drilling stops, you won't notice the lack of an anesthetic.And another issue ... why are so many people so hostile to a group of adults with jobs and other responsibilities who want to be able play together? </blockquote>You can check now to see how much exp you get from a kill. You have always gotten exp from kills, assuming you didn't turn your exp bar off. With Profit UI, you can see exactly what percentage of exp you get per kill. So, unless SoE changes how much exp you get from kills, the information has been pretty "credible".

Rutaq

12-10-2007, 02:12 PM

<cite>Lutefisk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmmmmmm .... nobody is addressing the "Brotherhood" part of the suggestion, which would be a great addition to BOTH PvP and PvE.And nobody seems to be providing any credible information about the amount of XP gained from PvP either. A lot of the supposed assurances ring hollow "you won't notice the XP gain once you're out of T2" sounds more like the dentist assuring you that once the drilling stops, you won't notice the lack of an anesthetic.And another issue ... why are so many people so hostile to a group of adults with jobs and other responsibilities who want to be able play together? </blockquote>I love the Brotherhood idea, it is a great system and I hope that it is added to EQ2. I am sorry, my previous post got caught up in the fervor of the PvP XP debate.

Bojin

12-10-2007, 02:24 PM

<cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>SOE, - if pvp xp must go live, implement a system similar to Vanguard's "Brotherhood" where we can share both pvp XP and any earned AA with offline grpmates in the "Brotherhood". Offline friends will not be happy, but at least we'll be able to stay in the game and stick together - change proposed ruleset so that only those who start a pvp encounter earn the associated xp...allowing those being attacked to defend themselves without gaining xp. To not do this guarantees less pvp as folks run/evac to continue the pursuit of aa and/or to prevent unwanted leveling</blockquote> Way too easy to exploit by lame asssed peeps who will do anything to stay in a low tier and gank noobs.

voxranger

12-10-2007, 03:57 PM

I appreciate those posts who correctly pointed out that its only in t2, and to a lesser extent t3 that exp from pvp kills really makes a significant impact. It appears the only people who are screaming about the changes are (1) the twinkers who feel ganking new inexperienced players is an enjoyable activity, and (2) those folks who level lock because they genuinely enjoy exploring all aspects of the games content in a tier. For those of us who enjoy all aspects of the game: pvp, solo questing, group questing, raiding, and crafting, these changes are positive.If a player is on a pvp server, its because they want to spend at least some of thier time pvp'ing. However, the locked twinks have the negligable effect to discouraging those players who might like lto play utility classes from even bothering, let alone helping new players enjoy the game without becomming immediately discouraged.I have never played on a pve server, and have no desire to. I learned the game the hard way on a pvp server, and endured, but would gladly have done without the group ganking by twinked teens. Now that I'm leveling into T8, its very challenging, and I am getting my butt handed to me by well equiped, well organized high-titled 75's plus, but the difference is I can accept things that this level and cant wait to get some new faction gear and hit 80 so I can get a little revenge <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.Back on topic, bottom line is locking in teens will only really affect those twinks who lock in teens because thier advantages are so grossly over powered compared to new players and new characters. I sitll don't understand how twinking at this level and mashing the same 4 buttons is any fun anyway.......

Bloodfa

12-10-2007, 04:15 PM

I'm going to make a suggestion to the original poster: roll alts. Even if it's the exact same classes you and your other friends play. That's what most of us had to do before combat XP was able to be disabled, and it actually works. Not all of my friends are available to play when I do. I stay up rather late compared to a couple of them, we've all got careers and families, but some have different schedules. The ones that stay up late, we've got our T8 toons, and the ones that don't have their toons in the 20's - 30's, and that's where we keep our alts. That "Community" button works wonders. Add in friends, and when they log, you'll be notified. Then you can play the 'other' toons. That system has worked out quite well since EverQuest I came out (okay, I'll be honest, I didn't play EQ1 from startup, but for 2 years before EQ2). Something that's an added bonus to rolling alts like that is the higher level ones can help the lower ones gear up, or mentor down for HQ's, if need be. And no, I'm not trying to be smartassed about the subject, just pointing out that there's a system in place to deal with that exact situation, a system that's tried & true.

tequiero

12-10-2007, 04:29 PM

you still can wait for your friend and gaing lvl in the same time , you dont need the brotherhood thing, even do I AGREE IS GREAT TO HAVE, but if you worried about lvling up to fast dont cause you wont go from (add your lvl here) to 80 in a few days and leave your friends behind. the the NEW excussed of weel if i defended my self i will get exp well no ofence to your either but you wont gaing a lvl for doing so, and if i am not mistaken or they change it you only get exp every 30 mins from the person you kill. so no worries there. so againg worried about leaving your friend behind no worries you be abel to do quest in a pvp server and dont leave them behind cause I am assuming that you are lvling by questing of course and that reason you are lock so even if you kill mobs you wont get exp anyways but if you are lock and twink and liek to pvp well keep trucking just have to spend more plat on re twinking your toons as you lvl up. it would be nice if you get exp everytime you kill the same person ( CAN YOU SAY EXPLOIT COMING)

Lutefisk

12-10-2007, 05:34 PM

It all boils down to people wanting to force folks higher faster so that the kids who raced ahead to 70 and 80 and have had time to gear up in that tier can gank whole new crops of newbies to those "unlimited" zones. They are lonely up there. And this whole schmeggegy illustrates the basic truth of PvP -- nobody wants a fair fight. Regardless of how it is done, everybody wants to engage in a fight only when they think they will have a good chance of winning. That good chance may be because of numbers, higher levels, better equipment, better tactics, etc. But nobody goes into a fight thinking "I'm pretty sure I'll lose". They run instead. If "fair fights" were something PvPer's wanted, they'd be lined up to duel in the arena. That winning mindset is fine, so far as it goes. The T2 ganking problem has been around since day one of PvP, when the more experienced PvP players (experience from other PvP games) started building "gank squads" to build up their stats. And SOE aided, abetted, and approved such tactics by rewarding the gankers with fame, status, and faction. Need 22,000 faction to get level 20 PvP gear? At 35 faction per kill, that's, ummm ... 628+ kills. Soooo many times I've been in a PvP group (tho not for long) that kills a player over and over simply to get more faction. No fame, no status, but they do get faction. THAT is SOE's imprimatur to go ahead and gank, gank, gank. Don't see any change to that policy on the horizon.

MMMike9

12-11-2007, 12:37 AM

The discussion about how pvp xp won't give "that much" xp...and therefore shouldn't matter at higher tiers...is flawed. If a friend is on a real world project/trip for say, a month, ....and can't play at all...we'll certainly level well past them if we pvp nearly every night -- at least if we're any good at pvp. Despite all the forum rhetoric, we need a "brotherhood" mechanic and/or a repaired mentoring system to play pvp with friends if this change goes live. Else we'll end up with grps of greatly mixed lvls and lots and lots of solo scouts.Yes, alts will help those who want to keep their mains at the same level as their established friends who play less often. Oh, but now the 3 of us that play more than the other 3 in our grp of 6 real life friends now need to play our alts at only the same time...else we're back to the situation mentioned in my original post. See para above.Face it, this change will greatly impact those who like to play EQ2 PvP with particular friends when unable to reach the lvl cap due to time/fund restraints. Additional game mechanics are necessary to fix this....all to fix T2 issues that could be better fixed so many other ways. Perhaps simply impose a faction and/or fame penalty any time you kill a player outside your title range in T2...newbie ganking solved. Sheesh.

seahawk

12-11-2007, 01:16 AM

<cite>MMMike978 wrote:</cite><blockquote>The discussion about how pvp xp won't give "that much" xp...and therefore shouldn't matter at higher tiers...is flawed. If a friend is on a real world project/trip for say, a month, ....and can't play at all...we'll certainly level well past them if we pvp nearly every night -- at least if we're any good at pvp. Despite all the forum rhetoric, we need a "brotherhood" mechanic and/or a repaired mentoring system to play pvp with friends if this change goes live. Else we'll end up with grps of greatly mixed lvls and lots and lots of solo scouts.NOt to sound rude, but if you have someone that doesn't play for a month, than that is a "you" problem and not a game mechanic problem.Yes, alts will help those who want to keep their mains at the same level as their established friends who play less often. Oh, but now the 3 of us that play more than the other 3 in our grp of 6 real life friends now need to play our alts at only the same time...else we're back to the situation mentioned in my original post. See para above.Face it, this change will greatly impact those who like to play EQ2 PvP with particular friends when unable to reach the lvl cap due to time/fund restraints. Additional game mechanics are necessary to fix this.You are right, it will impact those that like to play EQ2 PvP, those that lock in tier 2 and STRICTLY PVP. Those that lock and explore content for AA and the like, it has a much smaller effect. Once in tier 3 and onto tier 4, the impact lessens and becomes much more manageable, all the while letting new people in the game enjoy the game a bit better....all to fix T2 issues that could be better fixed so many other ways. Perhaps simply impose a faction and/or fame penalty any time you kill a player outside your title range in T2...newbie ganking solved. Sheesh.Sure, I am fairly certain SoE threw around countless ways to address the issue that was tier 2 pvp. But this is the fix they came up, so I would say .. learn to adapt. Just like many classes have learned to adapt with the countless nerfs and what not. It is an everchanging game. Just roll with the punches.</blockquote>Please don't take my comments as flaming, that is not my intent. Just my opinion on the whole matter. Tks.