Tanking with wizzies nukes

[Weco]

What to do..I pull a group of mobs, and almost all the group is targetted through me, and I can hold aggro while we take these mobs down but what do you do when you have that one rogue group member attacking the other mob with nukes.  I find that most of the group is targetted through me and if I switch over to make a feeble attempt at pulling that mob back on me, someone always complains that I am switching targets. I usually hit my rescue button to try to save this group member, which I like to save for nameds, etc. I was thinking of letting the nuker learn a lesson and just let them make their bed and sleep in it and I don't want to try to explain that Im not switching mobs but Im trying to pull aggro after someone messed it up. Even worse, warlocks and the AoE spells. How do my fellow guardians MT in a lower and mid level group with some players really not privvy to what the MT is doing?  It seems I'm running back and this mob cuts a path towards a group member that just nuked it.  Do you guys leave the group in a safespot and bring the mobs back and even turn em around? When do you start taunting a mob on a body pull?  Im curious to how you all work groups and different styles of pulling mobs.BTW, I had a FUN time in crushbone last night.  So far, one of the best groups I've had. If your in that group, you remember...

[Herme]

Hmmm, at lvl 28 there aren't that many options open to you.  I feel the same way about rescue but have lately come to grips that most names are few and far enough between where you can use rescue then it will be up when you need it again.  It's a tool to use, so use it when you need to.Tell the dps to let you set the mob before they come in place.  On body pulls, if someone grabs aggro from me on pull, I wait for them to take the first hit before taunting.  If they don't, then i let it get a good distance from it's social mobs then I taunt it.  If the DPS comes in and you lose aggro, focus your target on that mob and burn it down before it burns your DPS.  If group members whine just tell them you're 1) keeping them alive 2) it's your show anyway and don't let someone tell you how to do your job.  Your whole point in this game is to take the beating for the group and successfully complete the zone/quest.  How you do that is ultimately up to you.

[Bramwe]

One other thing that I am sure you are doing (but just in case)is using the spell you have called Allay.  It should be able to help with whoever keeps pulling aggro.  The other classes really need to learn to hold off on big nukes until you have a chance to lock them down.  Pretty soon you will get entrench which will help as long as your group members call out their burns and things and once you get to 52 you will have no problem because you will get Reinforcement which along with your AOE spells can get the mobs back easy enough.  Just stick out the early levels and deal with the people who think they can go all out immediately after a pull.Also, if your group members are used to soloing make sure that if one of them can transfer hate to you that they do it.  It helps a lot.Everyone absolutely needs to assist you though and not fight whatever mob they feel like.

[LygerT]

<p>a) don't let group members tell you how to do your job, you can try suggestions but if they don't work then go back to what you were doing. </p><p>b) if a nuker is constantly giving you trouble by pulling mobs, let them learn their lesson on their own. a DPS who knowingly continues to pull a mob a good distance from the tank needs to learn eventually that he not only risks himself but he risks the wHOLE group. </p><p>c) as said, make sure you have all hate transfers up and that people know their class and role. </p><p>d) aggro control and survivability are your main duties, make sure you learn them both well and that your AA choices can have a big impact on either. </p>

[Korpo]

<cite>Weco@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote>What to do..I pull a group of mobs, and almost all the group is targetted through me, and I can hold aggro while we take these mobs down but what do you do when you have that one rogue group member attacking the other mob with nukes.  ...</blockquote>Explain to them that this isn't acceptable, and that they either need to get with the program or find a new group.<cite></cite><blockquote>Even worse, warlocks and the AoE spells. </blockquote>This isn't really their fault. Give them your hate decrease, make sure they are transferring hate to you, and do what you can. AGI line helps with its AE auto-attack and extra AE attack. If all else fails, tell the 'lock to hold off for a few seconds before cutting loose, it's better to have a little less DPS than a deal 'lock.<cite></cite><blockquote>How do my fellow guardians MT in a lower and mid level group with some players really not privvy to what the MT is doing?</blockquote>Explain things to them. Keep in mind that not all lower level players are alts of higher level players, and they might not understand the way groups work, or how their buffs work, or the most efficient way to cruise through dungeons.

[Splor]

This is not from a gaurdian, but from a bruiser tank. the best thing you can do is tell the person what you want them to do, and if they still target other mobs and nuke all out, let them die(i also play a wizzy). If its a warlock expect some problems, but if you ask them to hold their spells for like 1-2 seconds after you set the mobs, then things go a lot smoother.<div></div><div>Also, dont be afraid to try new things, but dont ever, EVER let someone tell you how to play 100% of the time unless you are seriously asking for help. If you were on my server and asked me to train you on how to tank, i would 2 box my tank and healer and I would teach you step by step and show you different methods(for general tanking purposes). Other wise, if i group with you and your tanking, i might say something here or there, but I'd never attempt to control you. If you simply could not perform your job, then I might ask you to resign you posistion(i did this in a MoA raid not to long ago, and indeed, we cleared the zone shortly thereafter with me tanking.</div><div></div><div>As tank you are Leader. Your in the front. Your controlling the flow of the group. Your controlling timing and watching everything with 360 degrees. Therefore, Your rules.</div>

[Galn]

<p>I have a rule.. if a dps class steals aggro, the first time I save them, then tell them flat out, "If you pull aggro again yo'll die". A lot of soloing dps classes tend to put their highest damage attacks on the front of their hotbars. For grouping this is the opposite of what they should be doing. (I have a few dps types and rarely if ever pull aggro) The big nukes are a great combat finisher, but can put an end to the trip if cast on the pull. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[Weco]

If I see a zerker (or any other plated toon) in the group, I always ask up front if he wants to MT.  They always want me to go in first. I wish I had a way to embed my map on my UI and lock it, the biggest problem I have is stopping, and looking at the map.  I guess that will come with experience in some of these dungeons. I went back today and mentored a group ten levels below me in SH just to get around the map a little.  Exp was crappy but I did get some loot and found my way around SH a little better.  After the third time killing Capt Hess, I had to log.I am approaching tier 4, and saving plat for upgrades at level 32, any advice?

[danmuntz]

/shrugIf a DPS class goes nuts and steals agro from me, I just think of it as less hits that I'm taking.Tower of Wizzy ftw.

[Igixnasii]

Doesn't usually require explanation when you switch targets as most people understand your goal is to gather and hold all the mobs and if all members of the group are targeting through you it really won't make a difference which mob your attacking except for frustrating backstabbers. If a group member is pulling off you occasionally (even through the moderate ability) because of big nukes.. it's frustrating.. but acceptable to try and recover the mobs. If the member is pulling mobs off you because they are not targeting what your targeting.. you let em die. If you save these individuals they think it's ok to continue that activity and will continue to do it with other groups. Once that member dies the mob will likely return to you or a healer. If you know this person is not targeting through you and that is why they are grabbing aggro then tell that individual to target through you. If they refuse or continue to do so have them removed from the group. It's not worth the frustration to the group to deal with someone like that. Most healers get frustrated by people who grab aggro frequently regardless of how they are targeting and will eventually stop healing an individual like that. Regardless of the type of tank the group is running. ALL TANKS should pull (arrow if the mobs arn't social or body if they are social) back to a safe spot and turn the mobs around. The practice is good to get into for several reasons. - Roamers can be frequent and powerful dungeons will have roamers which will wipe the group easily if they add. - All scouts have at least one ability that requires the back of the mob, if you don't turn them around your risking that scout going out into "unsafe" area's to get some of their most powerful abilities off. - While it's not a problem in low/mid levels.. at high levels a lot of mobs have frontal AE attacks. If you do not turn the mob around (and likely place your back against a wall to avoid knockback) you risk having the group hit by these, and some can be devastating.I typically taunt the mob when it's immediately infront of me (if social) or as soon as it's in taunt range (if not social). Later on trailing mobs will grab help if you attack any of the mobs in the encounter before they are all close, so it's a good habit to get into letting all mobs get close before engaging. Many tanks like to bounce mobs off their healers. The healer is usually 10-15m behind the tank and this turns mob around with ease so the scouts can get their back stabs in without much effort from the tank at all.

[Jy]

I'm on both sides of the field here. I was a raid tank Guardian, and am now a raid wizard. I played both in groups all the time, daily. At low levels youre outta luck. You dont have the tools. You're going to lose agro. Get Reinforcements at lvl 52 and max it out in AA's. Knowing both wizard and Guardian I really dont meet many wizards that can consistently pull agro from me. Not to say that they cant but I have it most of the time granted a few random fusions I didnt have my Reinforcements up for. And as for them pulling agro and you chasing, dont chase man. If they're good they'll live. I my'self as soon as I pull agro or before when I know I'm going to use an AoE snare, nuke like mad pull agro, run away and kite mobs that come after me and I could care less what the tank is doing. And on my tank, I could care less what the wizard is doing as long as he's not killing my group. Trust me though, this whole tank vs agro dps goes both ways. You hate wizards cuz they pull agro, and they hate you cuz you cant hold. To most casters though, if youre not holding agro youre a noob. A fair statement? Probably not. But could you be doing better? Probably so ^ ^ I know, I'm also biased. I'm the guy that opens with Fission and BoI on pull. Thats our 2 biggest nukes and the biggest nukes in game. But before freaking out! guards really can hold this most of the time, just learn to utilize the tools you have instead of hogging them for 'emergencies'. You can [Removed for Content] about mages watching their dps all you want but, when you dont [Removed for Content] and you actually hold them when they go nuts, thats when you build a name for your'self, thats when we love you, and thats when you get tells askin you to tank cuz you just f'n rock. I never took more pride as a guardian then having squishies sending tells saying please come tank for me, I need someone I can trust to keep me alive. Sah-weet!

[Daalilama]

<p>Wait till your tanking in rok with 70+......</p><p>if all else fails....you can always threaten to pig stick them....lol</p>

[Soligen2]

<p>It's a bit tough at that level if the wizzie doesnt know how to play.  On my wizzie that I played to 38 I never had a problem - Wizzie needs to bebuf first - I never nuked until mob was out of the green and rarely had problems.</p><p>Once you get a few more tools, the situation changes.  If you have wiz or warlock u play with often , you can work it out so DPS soars and you have rock solid agro, but the coordination to do this on a pick up group is tough.  Here is how it goes, once you have reinforcement:</p><p>Pull as normal and get positioned.  Macro reinforcement to put out a tell in grp or raid chat, and cast reinforcement with the tell, then plant to root them then cast every AOE you have. </p><p>Them seeing the tell in grp, the wiz/warlock immediately runs to you (just in case they take agro for a sec) casts the biggest nuke or 2 they have, and runs back out once reinforcement takes back the agro</p><p>At this point reinforcement has shot you sky high in the hate list, and the big nikes are used - burn away.</p><p>In Raids I do a countdown in vent for reinforcement and everyone nukes at the same time.  I often see agro switch for a split second then reinforcement gives it back.</p><p>There is one thing that can go wron that the nuker (or ranger) needs to be very aware of.  IF the mob is fast and teh caster is not near you, they can get our of your reinforecement range very quick - they need to stay close when this is done, then can move backout.  At any rate you must tean everyone that if tehy pull agro they should IMMEDIATELY run to the tank - chasing mobs just lets them build bad habits - somethines they get root and cant - thats teh luck of teh draw.</p><p>Reinforement is a tool to be used as often as possible, rescue is for emergencies.</p>

[Valorus]

<p>Lots of good advice posted.  Here are my thoughts.</p><p> I main tank for a med sized raiding guild and over time I've learned a couple of things.</p><p> 1)  You will never hold aggro 100% of the time.  Just about any of the DPS classes can pull aggro off you if they use the right skills.  So first and foremost don't try.  As you get higher in level you'll get more skills that will help you retake aggro rather than just hold it.  When playing with a Warlock have them create an assist macro so when you pull they can assist (and your entire group for that matter) you.  This will allow you to cycle through group mobs and will help hold aggro in an AOE situation.</p><p>2) No one should be pulling aggro from you at the onset of a fight.  If they do (assuming your leading with your taunts) it's their problem.  Personally I don't chase mobs.  If a wizzy or Ranger for example pull aggro from me they had better run it back quick or they will die.  I used to stress over this thinking I wasn't doing my job, but it's just not the case.</p><p>and 3) Try and group with others around your level.  If you group with a Ranger for example that is towards the upper level range that you can group with and still gain exp you'll have these problems unless that Ranger really knows how to control their aggro.  Remember higher level characters will be able to deal more damage due to their level -vs- the mob level and upgraded skills.  </p><p>Good luck.</p>