RoK mobs: Charmed for PvP

[Kinox]

So, I was under the impression that charmed mobs lose a lot of their power after being charmed.  I'm almost positive thats the case with anything pre-RoK.  But i run around in RoK and get oneshotted by mobs that people charmed.  This means that either A) SoE forgot to give charmed mobs a nerf or B) They need to be nerfed for pvp specifically.And this isn't just an issue of coercers or necros or druids doing it, because anyone with a high enough guild level (city faction) can go get a charm item from the city merchant for vitually any mob in the game.

[Psych]

I dont see how its possible...must be some kind of bug. It takes a high tier of the coercer charm for a pet not to be completely ignored in PVP (adept3 or master1)I would think the other charms aside from charm undead would not have such tiers and thus always be apprentice level and weak.I am sorely dissapointed to hear the charm coercers deal with all the way to top tiers can be easily bought if thats what your really suggesting. If its true I completely agree. High tier charm shouldnt be for sale any more than high tier heals, taunts, summoned pets, etc.Your partially right but kinda off in what you said though. Charmed pets for coercer atleast do lose a lot of their power and literally become weaker than their exact non-charmed counter parts if the charm is app1. At master level though many claim it makes the pet stronger than it was before being charmed. The general idea is that the level of you charm is the level of skills the pet uses so the pets hitting you if charmed by a coercer with master1 charm are using their master1 spells...a good master1 nuke from a charmed mage mob I expect is very strong.I cant believe that bought charm items, god charm abilities, or any of the other charms tho allow master1 strength. Just sounds unfair.

[sprogn]

<p>Debilitating strike (the attack from KJ mobs) hits me for about 1.2K-2K when I'm PVEing in Kunzars.</p><p>If a Coercer has a Debilitating capable mob charmed, it hits me for 6K-8.2K.  (I'm at 54% mitigation in full plate with 9.1K HP)...</p><p>Something is very very broken.</p>

[Duotang]

I had a charmed 69 skelly (the ones from strait in front of KP docks) hit me for 4800 the other day. That is Epic damage. Ridiculous.

[serilis]

If you're getting 1 shotted by pets you seriously fail at the game.

[sprogn]

<cite>serilis wrote:</cite><blockquote>If you're getting 1 shotted by pets you seriously fail at the game.</blockquote><p>You obviously don't play past L60.</p><p>If as a plate wearing Berserker with 54% mitigation and 9,200 hitpoints I get hit for 7,924 points of damage (Debilitating Strike from a Kunzar Jungle mob) - then how the HELL is a clothie supposed to not get one-shotted?</p>

[Kiintac]

The sad thing even with good pets, I get one shotted by rangers, two shotted by swashies etc....But oh yeah they are DPS classes, I'm just a mage.Least everything is clear.......... it is ok to get hit for full health by certain classes but these classes are then not allowed to be damaged by 1/4 health or crit 1/2 health from Coercer pets?Seriously people, what else do you guys need, for me to just fall dead when I see you in range.   Geesh.

[Vydar]

I'm a  plate wearing Raid Tank Zerker with over 10k HP and quite a good chunk of mitigation... and I get two shotted in Jarsath.  There is a very specific coercer on our server who refuses to pvp anywhere that she can not grab an overpowered pet, and since bonemire with corpse candles is not the area of choice anymore, it is now the heroic mobs near Skyfire in front of VP that are the overpowered charmed pet of choice.Also, druid pets are [Removed for Content].  They glock almost as hard as heroics and are near impossible to kill.  Why are they more powerful as a charmed player pet than as a pve mob?  A lot of RoK needs looking at in PvP, but it is not their priority, as usual.

[Psych]

I just explained why...please raise your reading...gain reading 1/400...The creatures abilities once charmed mirror the level of the coercers charm spell. Adept 3 and Master1 are going to make the monster STRONGER by quite a bit usually. Mostly in creatures that use spells like priest/mage class creatures because it lets these monsters now cast their master1 spell versions. App1 would make the monster much weaker...master1 makes it much stronger...are we clear?I dont think its fair you get 1 shotted or 2 shotted but I did explain why theyre more powerful charmed than pve then you asked it again as if you didnt even read the thread and just came to complain. Report that specifc coercer you see, report the pet theyre using...PLEASE dont get charm nerfed anymore than it is cause believe me its not that amazing of a spell in general. These are rare instances you experiencing and need to be adjusted individually, the mobs, not charm.

[Radigazt]

<cite>Calek@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The sad thing even with good pets, I get one shotted by rangers, two shotted by swashies etc....But oh yeah they are DPS classes, I'm just a mage.Least everything is clear.......... it is ok to get hit for full health by certain classes but these classes are then not allowed to be damaged by 1/4 health or crit 1/2 health from Coercer pets?Seriously people, what else do you guys need, for me to just fall dead when I see you in range.   Geesh.</blockquote><p>Calek has a very good point.  I'm not defending the power of the charmed RoK mobs, but I don't think that things are in any way fair.  Swashies and Rangers can cap avoidance and be off the charts in mitigation and have Evac and the most poweful tool in the PvP game, tracking ... so how do they pump out more burst damage than a clothie?  To me that's broken.  We already have tankmages, they're called Scouts.  No PvP should be so quick that it's over in under 5 seconds ... that's just an execution.  But, if you think it's OK for a scout to knock off a mage in under 5 seconds, and in many cases more like 2 seconds ... it's difficult to see how it's suddenly unfair when the roles are reversed.  If killing someone in under 5 seconds is fair ... then why shouldn't a Coercer be able to do it to a Scout too?  </p><p>I recall when Nagafen launched and Summoners pets were bugged and 1-shotting people ... that wasn't acceptable and they were rightly nerfed.  Unfortunately, we've gotten to the point where the players' DPS is so insane that fights are lasting a shorter and shorter amounts of time.  To me it makes no difference whether it's a pet 1-shotting someone in 1 second, or a Ranger with a long delay bow killing them in 1 second with a couple CA's and procs, that's not really an impressive battle.  </p><p>It doesn't matter what class is doing it, people are not enjoying super-fast PvP deaths.  Whether it's 1-shot or 12 shots, dying in under 5 seconds just isn't the PvP thrill people are looking to find in a game.  The Dev's really need to rethink some of the PvP decisions, because as it is with everyone's DPS being so uber in PvP, it's becoming less enjoyable.  I think PvP should be designed to last somewhere between 30 seconds and 3 minutes.  People are complaining about Manashield, but those fights last a little while, and that's more of the sort of thing we should be looking to achieve IMHO, fights which involve longer participation, not just badablam, and it's over.  </p>

[Kiintac]

/clap clap for Vexus

[Kinox]

The only reason i started this thread is because People are charming SOLO mobs that are one-shotting people in pvp.  Also, these SOLO mobs are hitting for huge ammounts over what they normally would hit uncharmed.  If you wanna be able to oneshot someone with a charmed mob, you should have to go charm a heroic mob where the risks of charming it = the benefits of charming it.  If your charm breaks with a solo mob, no harm no foul cuz you can survive long enough to root/mez/stun it and get away.  If you charm a heroic mob, you run the risk of dying when ur charm breaks.  If you want to have uber charmed pet dps, you should have to accept the risk of dying when ur charm breaks/wears off.  As to rangers/swashies killing people in under 5secs, i agree thats OP but any time anyone starts a post to complain about them, they all ban together and [Removed for Content] you out for being a bluebie and a whiner and i dont have the patience for that tbh.  The sad fact is that rangers are snipers and snipers by their very definition are one-shot killing machines.  Swashies are expert swordsmen/women and by their definition, they can cut something into a thousand pieces before it hits the groud.  Coercers by definition can force people to their will and immobilize them.On the flip side, snipers and swordsmen should be very squishy due to their extreme mobility in combat (running/dodging/attacking) because from a common sense perspective, they should be wearing leather or cloth to be able to move/attack so fast.  Chain=heavy/hard to move in.  Coercers should have to accept the risks of bending things to their will, so if they want to have heavy firepower, they must also risk that firepower turning on them.But this is not the case.

[Badaxe Ba]

<cite>Calek@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The sad thing even with good pets, I get one shotted by rangers, two shotted by swashies etc....But oh yeah they are DPS classes, I'm just a mage.Least everything is clear.......... it is ok to get hit for full health by certain classes but these classes are then not allowed to be damaged by 1/4 health or crit 1/2 health from Coercer pets?Seriously people, what else do you guys need, for me to just fall dead when I see you in range.   Geesh.</blockquote><p>OMG someone is criticizing us, quick, pull out the old "Rangers are one-shotting me" defense!</p><p>This might have worked three updates ago, but no longer.</p><p>BTW, I believe I'm the first ranger to post on this particular topic about Coercer pets.  I really don't even have an opinion yet as to whether this is 'as intended' or not.</p><p>I notice with interest that the coercer spell can act as a buff on the npc mob if the level of the spell is taken into account.</p><p>Does it state this in the spell description? Does it have a different set of conditions that apply in pvp?</p><p>More info please.</p>

[Kiintac]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calek@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The sad thing even with good pets, I get one shotted by rangers, two shotted by swashies etc....But oh yeah they are DPS classes, I'm just a mage.Least everything is clear.......... it is ok to get hit for full health by certain classes but these classes are then not allowed to be damaged by 1/4 health or crit 1/2 health from Coercer pets?Seriously people, what else do you guys need, for me to just fall dead when I see you in range.   Geesh.</blockquote><p>OMG someone is criticizing us, quick, pull out the old "Rangers are one-shotting me" defense!</p><p>This might have worked three updates ago, but no longer.</p><p>BTW, I believe I'm the first ranger to post on this particular topic about Coercer pets.  I really don't even have an opinion yet as to whether this is 'as intended' or not.</p><p>I notice with interest that the coercer spell can act as a buff on the npc mob if the level of the spell is taken into account.</p><p>Does it state this in the spell description? Does it have a different set of conditions that apply in pvp?</p><p>More info please.</p></blockquote><p>"OMG someone is criticizing us, quick, pull out the old "Rangers are one-shotting me" defense!</p><p>This might have worked three updates ago, but no longer."</p><p>Why not, it still happens to me quit often.</p>

[Psych]

<cite>Kinox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only reason i started this thread is because People are charming SOLO mobs that are one-shotting people in pvp.  Also, these SOLO mobs are hitting for huge ammounts over what they normally would hit uncharmed.  If you wanna be able to oneshot someone with a charmed mob, you should have to go charm a heroic mob where the risks of charming it = the benefits of charming it.  If your charm breaks with a solo mob, no harm no foul cuz you can survive long enough to root/mez/stun it and get away.  If you charm a heroic mob, you run the risk of dying when ur charm breaks.  If you want to have uber charmed pet dps, you should have to accept the risk of dying when ur charm breaks/wears off.  As to rangers/swashies killing people in under 5secs, i agree thats OP but any time anyone starts a post to complain about them, they all ban together and [I cannot control my vocabulary] you out for being a bluebie and a whiner and i dont have the patience for that tbh.  The sad fact is that rangers are snipers and snipers by their very definition are one-shot killing machines.  Swashies are expert swordsmen/women and by their definition, they can cut something into a thousand pieces before it hits the groud.  Coercers by definition can force people to their will and immobilize them.On the flip side, snipers and swordsmen should be very squishy due to their extreme mobility in combat (running/dodging/attacking) because from a common sense perspective, they should be wearing leather or cloth to be able to move/attack so fast.  Chain=heavy/hard to move in.  Coercers should have to accept the risks of bending things to their will, so if they want to have heavy firepower, they must also risk that firepower turning on them.But this is not the case.</blockquote>Kinox you have to understand that is heroics were allowed to keep their power when charmed it would indeed encourage coercers to take that risk and they would surely die more often from pet breaks but it would allow this overpowered pet use at all levels instead of on these rare t8 instances you are talking about.Currently anything heroic gets nerfed upon being charmed. A ^^^ mob becomes ___....or flat I mean it loses all the power of the three arrows it once had. A white ^^ becomes a plain white when charmed. If creatures kept their arrows the coercer would be as powerful as EQ1 chanter and trust me thats far too powerful. Its not the charm that is screwed up here its these creatures. The mobs need balanced NOT the spell. Also, a coercer technically...if a sniper pulls off 1 shot 1 kill....a coercer is a mind controller...not a pacifier...he DOMINATES minds. Trust me, you do not want charm to fully work on players, it will be much worse than what your currently experiencing. Just imagine a coercer mez you, charm you, send you in against 30 mobs then he just lets you die and he sprints away.Currently if a player is charmed it lasts less than 10 seconds and the player cant be commanded to do anything, the charmed player will only attack things the coercer attacks. Its almost useless, I've used it several times in the heat of pvp and its pointless really. Especially given a cast time long enough for most players to kill me.Its not the charm, its the pet. /petition in game to fix the PETS! the charmed MOB not the CHARM. PLEASE!

[seejester]

<cite>Harry@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Calek@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>The sad thing even with good pets, I get one shotted by rangers, two shotted by swashies etc....But oh yeah they are DPS classes, I'm just a mage.Least everything is clear.......... it is ok to get hit for full health by certain classes but these classes are then not allowed to be damaged by 1/4 health or crit 1/2 health from Coercer pets?Seriously people, what else do you guys need, for me to just fall dead when I see you in range.   Geesh.</blockquote><p>OMG someone is criticizing us, quick, pull out the old "Rangers are one-shotting me" defense!</p><p>This might have worked three updates ago, but no longer.</p><p>BTW, I believe I'm the first ranger to post on this particular topic about Coercer pets.  I really don't even have an opinion yet as to whether this is 'as intended' or not.</p><p>I notice with interest that the coercer spell can act as a buff on the npc mob if the level of the spell is taken into account.</p><p><span style="color: #ffcc00;">Does it state this in the spell description?</span> Does it have a different set of conditions that apply in pvp?</p><p>More info please.</p></blockquote><span style="color: #00ff00;">Sorry, doesn't work that way.Sony doesn't like to get into detail with their spell descriptions, especially anything involving a pet. For example, most dumbfire pets read as, "summons a limited pet to aid the caster."That's it. No stats. No notes on what benefits are given from a Master 1 as opposed to an Apprentice 1. Nada.All you can do is cast it over and over again, watch what it does, then compare if you had a lower level spell. Is charm working as intended? Who besides a dev could really answer that question?</span>

[sokil]

I agree. This needs to be fixed. I jumped down from a cliff to kill a corecer and before I even hit the ground I was dead. The player didn't even know I was there until he saw my chest. I took an armor hit, lost fame and fortune with one shot from his pet in the Jungle. Absolutely crazy. Would be different if it was a fight but to be hit for 8738 pts when at 75 I have less than that? FIX THIS !!! you have basically made corecers into one hit tanks. Heck, they could go AFK and not even worry about getting killed except by a class that has long range and can kill them before that pet can get into range on one shot them.

[Roald]

<cite>Sochi@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I agree. This needs to be fixed. I jumped down from a cliff to kill a corecer and before I even hit the ground I was dead. The player didn't even know I was there until he saw my chest. I took an armor hit, lost fame and fortune with one shot from his pet in the Jungle. Absolutely crazy. Would be different if it was a fight but to be hit for 8738 pts when at 75 I have less than that? FIX THIS !!! you have basically made corecers into one hit tanks. Heck, they could go AFK and not even worry about getting killed except by a class that has long range and can kill them before that pet can get into range on one shot them. </blockquote>Sorry but this is completely wrong. The player would have had to target you and press pet attack for this scenario to work. If you had already attacked him before you jumped down, and the guys pet was on defend, then it might work.

[resus]

The only way i can beat a coercer with my Troubador  its mezzing his pet and playing with all stiffled and stun spell, if i see see him before he see me. But i killed a group last week in ROk with a charming an heroic pet for 17 sec, mezzing him, charming again for another 17 sec. But really that have no sense to use a heroic damage on a pvp player.