GOOD Arasai? ATTN: Sapphirius(and anyone else)

[darkentity]

<p>With all the lore concerning the Arasai and how they were created, I was wondeing if anyone can come up with an arguement on how one can possibly be good. Or is that possible? Just trying to create a small backstory for my Arasai Monk, but the more I think about it....how can something born of hate, killed and then born of hate once again, possibly end up good?</p><p>The best idea I came up with is, believing what the magister and revered say during the betrayal quest, that the queen is acting like the god of hate in his absense. Neriak has fallen to her and innoruk(forgive the spelling) is basically a thing of the past. So Understanding that Neriak has become a shadow, My arasai moved on. For the most part I have decided to inflict pain and suffering on Qeynos's enemies without hesitation. (planning on getting scowled from all Freeport factions) Hate still lives in her....not very monk like but anyway.</p><p> Any ideas? the above makes more sense if I was a dark elf.</p>

[Sinect]

Well theres tons of possibilities - Dramatic experience? - Free Will - a newborn kitty that you couldn't resist the love from <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[TheSpin]

<p>I'm not a lore expert, but I think it might be pretty simple to betray an arasai in a lore perspective.</p><p>Arasai were once fae, perhaps not -all- of the goodness of the fae was removed.  </p><p>Alternatively, perhaps an arasai with an interest in history ends up learning a lot about fae and wants to learn more so starts befriending fae.  The arasai might change their heart through friendship.</p>

[darkentity]

<p>lol newborn kitty.</p><p>actually all of those are possibilities. I'll give it some thought.</p>

[Cusashorn]

yeah Free Will is probably the biggest factor why anyone would switch side.

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>Do we even know if Cristanos gave the Arasai untainted free will? that's what's been bugging me =/</p><p>All I read is saying that the Arasai were corrupted before awakening, given wings when theirs didn't work so well, given plenty of royal favors...</p><p>The fae seem pretty grateful to Tunare for "creating" them...if Arasai shared that trait why would any have a real reason to switch?</p>

[TheSpin]

<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Do we even know if Cristanos gave the Arasai untainted free will? that's what's been bugging me =/</p><p>All I read is saying that the Arasai were corrupted before awakening, given wings when theirs didn't work so well, given plenty of royal favors...</p><p>The fae seem pretty grateful to Tunare for "creating" them...if Arasai shared that trait why would any have a real reason to switch?</p></blockquote>Well since arasai were once fae and have been corrupted over centuries, maybe some were more resistant to that corruption.

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>So they would be half evil?</p><p>Even still they were captured before they awakened so unless they remembered their buds past life (which was semi corrupted if resistant) they wouldn't have a model to really follow in order to somehow reject Neriak.</p><p>Centuries (not sure if this is the time frame) is a long time to be corrupted. =/</p>

[darkentity]

<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So they would be half evil?</p><p>Even still they were captured before they awakened so unless they remembered their buds past life (which was semi corrupted if resistant) they wouldn't have a model to really follow in order to somehow reject Neriak.</p><p>Centuries (not sure if this is the time frame) is a long time to be corrupted. =/</p></blockquote><p>yeah that's really my predicament right now. it doesn't make sense. Still it's what I went with but I'd like to really come up with a ligitimate reason.</p>

[Eriol]

<cite>darkentity wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>yeah that's really my predicament right now. it doesn't make sense. Still it's what I went with but I'd like to really come up with a ligitimate reason.</blockquote>I think you're not putting enough weight into Free Will.  Look at it from any other "good" or "evil" race's perspective, in that can a High Elf have a plausible reason to betray?  I'd say yes (and have written my character backstory assuming so, take a look at the story in my sig if you don't think it's possible), and so I'd say it's possible even if there isn't even a TRACE of memory left through the spirit bud.  Free will, deciding that evil does NOT have the rewards advertised, simple empathy, whatever.  When Free Will is involved, the only challenge is to make it suit the development of their personality, in that either they were close already to "flipping over" somehow, or a concrete change occurs.  I think you need to focus more on the individual, rather than saying that their race dictates their possible range of action.  Race will definitely create a starting point, but transitioning that to where you want the character go is the challenge of believable writing.You might want to pose a similar question in an /ooc topic over in the Traveller's Tales sub-forum here and see what feedback you get.  I'm sure they'll have some ideas.

[DrkVsr]

<p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: comic sans ms,sand;">Yeah, it's more working out an individual reason for your character to turn to the light-side as aopposed to the entire race</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">Mah troll moved to Qeynos because he and his mate fought in the battle that saw the trolls retake Grobb, unfortunately he was seperated from her in the confusion and after the battle could find no trace of her, after years of searching he uncovered something that put him in a form of cryogenic sleep. After he awoke his continued search brought him first to Freeport, after browsing the history books in the library he came across single reference from shortly after the Retaking about a troll female being taking back to Qeynos</span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #993300;font-family: Comic Sans MS;">He 'borrowed' the book (for possibly more info) and headed to Qeynos, he became an illusionist to help him 'blend in' with the squishies <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></p>

[phoenixshard]

Wouldn't it be just like the good dark elves that you see running around. The process for creating the arsai sounds a lot like the one that created the dark elves and if they can be good, why not the arsai?

[TheSpin]

<p>Maybe the Arasai had an extremely talented trainer as a child....we'll call him  Zorgnofeen.</p><p>Lets say this Zorgnofeen taught him that hate wasn't all life was about.  Maybe there's a spark for something more in him that leads him up to the surface where he finds a dwarf king who's lost his kingdom but adopted a human daughter as his own and is teaching a barbarian to think like a dwarf.  Perhaps this Arasai might then have a good reason to leave his past life behind after meeting such good friends.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>phoenixshard wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wouldn't it be just like the good dark elves that you see running around. The process for creating the arsai sounds a lot like the one that created the dark elves and if they can be good, why not the arsai?</blockquote>Like I said. Free Will is the biggest factor. No race is forced to be evil or good. If an Arasai want's to become a paladin, then there's nothing stopping him from achieving that goal.

[darkentity]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>phoenixshard wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wouldn't it be just like the good dark elves that you see running around. The process for creating the arsai sounds a lot like the one that created the dark elves and if they can be good, why not the arsai?</blockquote>Like I said. Free Will is the biggest factor. No race is forced to be evil or good. If an Arasai want's to become a paladin, then there's nothing stopping him from achieving that goal.</blockquote><p>I think the biggest arguement here though is this. How can something brainwashed before it was even born(twice over mind you) know any other way than hate. I'd argue they are more hateful than the darkelves because of this. </p><p>However, the fact that they are intelligent beings and not mindless zombies, does tell me it could happen. I can't recall any real life events but there are plenty of stories, games etc where even the worst hearted villian became good through someone elses influence. First thing that comes to my mind is Neflyte/Neflite from sailormoon.</p><p> Now I just have to think of "why" Some of these posts have at least turned thw wheels of thought though.</p>

[Sapphirius]

<p>Sorry I didn't answer sooner, but I've been a little busy. <blushes></p><p>OK, first thing's first, I wouldn't say the Arasai are so much brainwashed as they are suffering from something we term in modern days as Battered Syndrome. A child abused or spouse abused will still love their parents and/or spouse and remain loyal to them, even defending them often violently (because violence is all they know). This is, of course, my <i>personal</i> philosophy and not cannon to any lore. It would seem, in my eyes, that if Arasai were brainwashed, then what children go through in school is also brainwashing, and this isn't the case. They were corrupted and abused and their forms twisted to what we now call Arasai.</p><p><i>However</i>, the knowledge of this corruption and abuse resides in their spirit buds, and as we now know, they aren't born with these buds. They merge with them when they reach adulthood. This means that they have all that time between birth and adulthood to develop their own personalities and beliefs without the bias of past history and corruption... depending on just <i>how</i> they were raised. The typical would be for them to be raised amongst other Arasai and taught the Arasai ways and the worship of Christanos, but there are always exceptions to the typical.</p><hr /><p>Here are the stories for my three known Arasai girls. (I won't address my stealth alts as they're... ummm... <i>stealth</i> alts.)</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">Shikaeshi</span></b> the inquisitor (recently deleted and rerolled on another server) is your typical Arasai in every way except one. She's mean, spiteful, and loves to prank, especially if that prank has a good chance of getting the victim hurt. However, she does not believe Christanos is her god. She's no fool, and she'll worship Christanos to her face, but behind her back, she believes the Queen to be possessed and a raving lunatic and heretic. She's secretly an Innoruuk worshipper.</p><p>This <i>could</i> develop into a betrayal further down the road if Christanos were to ever find out and Shika's life threatened because of it. However, I love the inquisitor class, so she'll be staying evil.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">Suyin</span></b> the monk is Shika's sister-in-law. She was loyal to both the Queen and to Neriak. Her brother married Shika, and they had Tenmou. However, her brother learned of Shika's worship of Innoruuk, and was ready to turn her in. Being a follower of the Prince of Hate, little Shika wasn't going to allow that. Shika hunted him down over the course of 15 years and killed him.</p><p>It was Suyin's fear that Shika would come for her too, and so she fled Neriak when Shika returned. It was when she was away from the influence of Neriak and the Queen that she learned of other things and began to feel the earliest stirrings of her spirit bud's Fae memories.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">Tenmou</span></b> the warlock (my new main) is just by far the most "out there" storyline I have ever roleplayed, and she is so much fun! Tenmou is the niece of Suyin and daughter of Shikaeshi. When she was born, Shika gave her to a Tier'Dal house to raise while she went in pursuit of her husband. Why Teir'Dal and not Arasai? Because Shika was a secret worshipper of Innoruuk. She did not want her daughter tainted by the beliefs that Christanos was some sort of god.</p><p>Unfortunately, the Teir'Dal seem a little bitter towards the Arasai. They are Christanos's chosen, which moved the Nerian Teir'Dal down a social notch. As a result, the Teir'Dal will take any opportunity to belittle the Arasai and treat them as if they are lower in station than they really are (again, <i>personal</i> theory based off a Hate's Envy quest). Shika was thrown into the basement with the slaves and treated accordingly. She never saw anything outside of that basement or received any formal schooling until she was about the age of 15. That day, there was a revolt amongst the Teir'Dal house's slaves, and the door was left open. Little Tenny just fluttered right out the basement and out the front door and wandered around Neriak cluelessly until she quite literally bumped into her spirit bud outside of the Queen's castle.</p><p>Now, keeping in mind some of the things Owlchick has said, the spirit bud chooses it's vessel (Fae/Arasai), and Tenmou had been shut off from the world for 15 years, so she was essentially a child in a young adult's body. She had very little development, so a spirit bud that was rich with history and hatred would not have chosen such a vessel. (It's my personal belief that the Arasai are also a very proud race.) The spirit bud Tenmou bumped into was a recent addition to the Queen's collection. Owlchick says that there are new spirit buds and old spirits buds and buds everywhere in between. Tenmou's was a new one having never been reincarnated before it was captured and brought to Christanos.</p><p>In essence, the bud was just like Tenmou, a totally blank slate. This opened the way for Tenmou's betrayal from Neriak where she cluelessly stumbled throughout the whole thing having no idea what she was doing or that it was considered treason. She now resides in Baubbleshire under the watch of the Vagabond Knights while she receives formal schooling from the Concordium's mages. Granted, she has a few little quirks, like being unable to fluently speak any language except Thexian, being unable to swim, and being totally illiterate. She has the speech patterns, social skills, and cognitive development of a 6 year old, which makes for some often humorous and interesting roleplay, but she is a very intelligent girl.</p><p>I hope this gives you some ideas to work from.</p><p>EDIT: for spelling - I need caffeine!</p>

[TheSpin]

<cite>darkentity wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>phoenixshard wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wouldn't it be just like the good dark elves that you see running around. The process for creating the arsai sounds a lot like the one that created the dark elves and if they can be good, why not the arsai?</blockquote>Like I said. Free Will is the biggest factor. No race is forced to be evil or good. If an Arasai want's to become a paladin, then there's nothing stopping him from achieving that goal.</blockquote><p>I think the biggest arguement here though is this. How can something brainwashed before it was even born(twice over mind you) know any other way than hate. I'd argue they are more hateful than the darkelves because of this. </p><p>However, the fact that they are intelligent beings and not mindless zombies, does tell me it could happen. I can't recall any real life events but there are plenty of stories, games etc where even the worst hearted villian became good through someone elses influence. First thing that comes to my mind is Neflyte/Neflite from sailormoon.</p><p> Now I just have to think of "why" Some of these posts have at least turned thw wheels of thought though.</p></blockquote>I think if someone tortured me over centuries and multiple lifespans I might indeed hate.....but maybe that hate would be targetted at the person that tortured me and might lead me to get as far away as possible.  Maybe I would want to go back to my original roots.  The bottom line is that Arasai were once Fae.  I believe that in real life there is something embedded into people so that even the worst kinds of people have some good in them.

[Arbreth]

<p>My Warlock, Belijia, is not evil, not the way one considers evil, nor as nasty as her 'sister' (played by another).  However, her last memories of Tunare was of the goddess turning away when she was captured, thus she is bitter about that betrayal.  Not being evil, Innoruk is not to her taste either.  She sees the Queen as one who woke her and gave her shelter, admonished her shortcomings, but still called her precious.</p><p>Belijia will most likely never leave Neriak, though she has traveled to other cities and wonders why if she can find beauty in them, why do others scorn her home?  Privately, though, she thinks Kelethin is too brown, and the inhabitants a tad silly.  </p>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">1 -</span></b> So they would be half evil?</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">2 -</span></b> Even still they were captured before they awakened so unless they remembered their buds past life (which was semi corrupted if resistant) they wouldn't have a model to really follow in order to somehow reject Neriak.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">3 -</span></b> Centuries (not sure if this is the time frame) is a long time to be corrupted. =/</p></blockquote><p>OK, now to answer this question. Owlchick changed the lore of the Fae and Arasai before beta was opened. It had originally been planned that they would indeed come from flowers and Arasai from corrupted flowers. They would die, the bud would be freed, plant itself, and grow into a new flower. However, Owlchick changed all this so that the Fae & Arasai give birth and merge with their spirit buds when they reach adulthood. Unfortunately, the lore change was not complete, and so a lot of the quests and the Arasai book will be very confusing to read. They really need to sit down and finish the lore change to address these discrepencies.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">1 -</span></b> Now, would the Arasai be half evil because they were once Fae? I know this is going to sound cliche but not really. There is very little in this world that is black and white. There are many varying shades of gray out there, and I believe that a lot of Arasai fall into these darker shades of gray.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">2 -</span></b> I think you're a little confused about the awakening process. The awakening is not something that only happens once. It happens every time that a spirit bud is reincarnated (or receives its new vessel). This would haeve been true even if Owlchick had not changed the lore. It's very possible for an Arasai spirit bud to have Fae memories still contained within it from previous lives.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b>3 -</b> </span>The length of time is all relative. A century might not be long to a high elf, but it's an entire lifetime for a human. A century might not seem like much to a 500 year old spirit.</p><p>Now why did I say a century and not pluralize it? Well, there's a lot of spirit buds. I think the proces was a long slow and agonizing process, but I don't think she would have been corrupting hundreds of buds and Fae all at the same time. My personal theory is that she corrupted a group, got it the way she wanted, and moved on to another group.</p>

[Eriol]

Responding to both of these points:<cite>darkentity wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I think the biggest arguement here though is this. How can something brainwashed before it was even born(twice over mind you) know any other way than hate. I'd argue they are more hateful than the darkelves because of this.</blockquote><cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>I think if someone tortured me over centuries and multiple lifespans I might indeed hate.....but maybe that hate would be targetted at the person that tortured me and might lead me to get as far away as possible.  Maybe I would want to go back to my original roots.  The bottom line is that Arasai were once Fae.  I believe that in real life there is something embedded into people so that even the worst kinds of people have some good in them.</blockquote>It would be rather disturbing research, but I would bet that any materials on real-life cults and ACTUAL brainwashing/control would be enlightening here as to how the victims act, where their feelings are, etc.  And people DO come out of those as well (even children growing up in that environment), so I wouldn't say that any particular path is completely pre-destined, even when that upbringing is all you know. <cite> </cite>

[Torri]

<p>Spirit buds from both races have varying degrees of recall of their past incarnations. Some have only empathic resonances to certain things. Some remember some events with clarity. Torri is deathly afraid of fire (To the point her Conjuror soulmate can't use a fire pet in her presence), and though a sweet, gentle, devout soul of Tunare she is filled with blind hatred when confronted with a Dark Elf or Orc, for the single most resonant memory she has of past lives is of the fires set during the War of the Fay and the death and destruction that came with it.</p><p>It seems to me that since even a captured and corrupted spirit bud would still have the possibility of having access to the memories of it's time in the Faydark (Nothing indicates the corruption includes attempted memory-wiping) so add that to self determination/Free Will and you should be able to come up with a suitable reason for betrayl</p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">1 -</span></b> So they would be half evil?</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">2 -</span></b> Even still they were captured before they awakened so unless they remembered their buds past life (which was semi corrupted if resistant) they wouldn't have a model to really follow in order to somehow reject Neriak.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">3 -</span></b> Centuries (not sure if this is the time frame) is a long time to be corrupted. =/</p></blockquote><p>OK, now to answer this question. Owlchick changed the lore of the Fae and Arasai before beta was opened. It had originally been planned that they would indeed come from flowers and Arasai from corrupted flowers. They would die, the bud would be freed, plant itself, and grow into a new flower. However, Owlchick changed all this so that the Fae & Arasai give birth and merge with their spirit buds when they reach adulthood. Unfortunately, the lore change was not complete, and so a lot of the quests and the Arasai book will be very confusing to read. They really need to sit down and finish the lore change to address these discrepencies.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">1 -</span></b> Now, would the Arasai be half evil because they were once Fae? I know this is going to sound cliche but not really. There is very little in this world that is black and white. There are many varying shades of gray out there, and I believe that a lot of Arasai fall into these darker shades of gray.</p><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">2 -</span></b> I think you're a little confused about the awakening process. The awakening is not something that only happens once. It happens every time that a spirit bud is reincarnated (or receives its new vessel). This would haeve been true even if Owlchick had not changed the lore. It's very possible for an Arasai spirit bud to have Fae memories still contained within it from previous lives.</p><p><span style="color: #ffff00;"><b>3 -</b> </span>The length of time is all relative. A century might not be long to a high elf, but it's an entire lifetime for a human. A century might not seem like much to a 500 year old spirit.</p><p>Now why did I say a century and not pluralize it? Well, there's a lot of spirit buds. I think the proces was a long slow and agonizing process, but I don't think she would have been corrupting hundreds of buds and Fae all at the same time. My personal theory is that she corrupted a group, got it the way she wanted, and moved on to another group.</p></blockquote><p>For the second one, should have been lives* my bad. As it stands, I think its not very likely for them to remember past lives at all, Fae or otherwise, am I right?</p><p>And I'm not the one with the centuries timeframe...another poster =P I have no idea how long it would have actually taken (no clue whatsoever). I have this image of a young Arasai being watched and guided in the way that Cristanos wants barring extenuating circumstances. They are merged with a corrupted bud which shifts their personality traits into something darker. It's very rare for actual memories to surface (I believe) and even then only the strong ones. Once merged they set about with tasks or responsibilities they chose in order to benefit Neriak and serve the Queen all the way receiving boons and favors because of what they are.</p><p>Please please correct me if I am wrong in anything =/</p><p>Please, please correct me if I am wrong =/ </p>

[Zheen]

This is Owlchick's response about spirit buds. Now if this holds true to Arasai I do not know.<span style="color: #cc0000;"><i>"The Fae may not generally remember precise details of their spirits' past, but they may have increased sensitivity to places and things that held significance for that spirit.  Some Fae have a much stronger spirit that allows glimpses of its past in addition to the emotional stirrings tied to locations and objects."</i></span>

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Pyra Shineflame wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><b><span style="color: #ffff00;">2 -</span></b> I think you're a little confused about the awakening process. The awakening is not something that only happens once. It happens every time that a spirit bud is reincarnated (or receives its new vessel). This would haeve been true even if Owlchick had not changed the lore. It's very possible for an Arasai spirit bud to have Fae memories still contained within it from previous lives.</p></blockquote><p>For the second one, should have been lives* my bad. As it stands, I think its not very likely for them to remember past lives at all, Fae or otherwise, am I right?</p><p>And I'm not the one with the centuries timeframe...another poster =P I have no idea how long it would have actually taken (no clue whatsoever). I have this image of a young Arasai being watched and guided in the way that Cristanos wants barring extenuating circumstances. They are merged with a corrupted bud which shifts their personality traits into something darker. It's very rare for actual memories to surface (I believe) and even then only the strong ones. Once merged they set about with tasks or responsibilities they chose in order to benefit Neriak and serve the Queen all the way receiving boons and favors because of what they are.</p><p>Please please correct me if I am wrong in anything =/</p><p>Please, please correct me if I am wrong =/ </p></blockquote><p>In addition to the quote from Owlchick, I'll also quote the Fae Mentor quest. Sometimes, they remember very specific things. Sometimes, they remember nothing at all. Sometimes, they may have specific feelings attached to different places or objects.</p><p><a href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=392114" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">A Compilation of Fae & Arasai Lore</a></p><p>You say, "Hail, Lady Aileeta Reila"Lady Aileeta Reila says, "Did you find time to speak with Brizeyl?"You say, "Yes, I did."Lady Aileeta Reila says, "Did talking with her help you remember anything?"You say, "No...I remembered nothing."Lady Aileeta Reila says, "Not every spirit bud lived through every Ring, so what memories come back are irregular.  Some Fae do not remember anything of their past, ever.  It's another one of Tunare's mysteries."You say, "Brizeyl recommended I read about our history."Lady Aileeta Reila says, "So you've finished reading The History of the Fae? Then let's begin the test!"You say, "I'll bet it's a history test."Lady Aileeta Reila says, "History is important to the Fae, for we have Tunare's gift of our spirits re-blossoming.  That means we have better memories than others!  Usually.  I still forget where I put down a book I was just reading.  But anyway, let's begin."You say, "I'm ready."</p><p>The Fae Rite of Passage series also addresses the awakening of the spirit bud. I have the full quests series quoted in the thread I linked above.</p>

[Rast]

<p>I know for my tier'dal, it was for a hate greater than what Lucan promised, it was the hatred of Lucan himself that opened the door for my teir'dal shadowknight (now paladin) to betray.  He sought out the one way he could align himself AGAINST Lucan, and that was to go through the reversal of what Lucan did (SK rise to Paladin rather than the Paladin fall to SK).</p><p>All because Lucan tried (note the term there, tried) to have his mate killed.  A being of hate will react to hatred with hatred and will sometimes side with the enemy of their enemy to bring them down.</p><p>Not to mention, what class but a paladin (or assassin) would be as suited for a being of hate.  We rip hatred from other characters, use that hatred to kill and that is called good? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Wingofbenu]

Another good reason i could see, related to hate, is the fact that really, the Dark elves treat arasai like exactly what theyre expected to be. Cute pets and shock troopers. 2nd class citizens at best undeserving of respect or notice. I can think more than one Arasai would grow increasingly dissastisfied with being treated inferior to others and seek out recognition and fame by betraying their "home" to find  a home where people afford them respect

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Wingofbenu wrote:</cite><blockquote>Another good reason i could see, related to hate, is the fact that really, the Dark elves treat arasai like exactly what theyre expected to be. Cute pets and shock troopers. 2nd class citizens at best undeserving of respect or notice. I can think more than one Arasai would grow increasingly dissastisfied with being treated inferior to others and seek out recognition and fame by betraying their "home" to find  a home where people afford them respect</blockquote>Especially seeing as the Arasai view themselves as superior to the Teir'Dal.

[Jrral]

This was pre-RoK, but this was the rationale I had for having a dark elf betray over to Qeynos:Queen Christanos? Powerful and evil yes, but also dangerously unstable. Being around her is <i>not</i> conducive to living a long and successful life. And the whole cult of personality she's got going around her smacks of a megalomaniac psychotic who's likely to get herself and everyone around her killed one of these days. That'll be fun to watch... from well outside fallout range. Not so much fun being at ground zero. The rest of Neriak aren't evil, they're smarmy. Used equine salesmen, the lot of 'em. They'll betray and backstab at a moment's notice when it suits their immediate interest. And long-term that's <i>not</i> in your self-interest, you'll eventually be in situations where you <i>need</i> people you can trust and who can trust you and you're not going to find that hanging around this bunch.Lucan d'Lere? If he had two brain cells to rub together, he'd be making nicey-nice with Qeynos. Let all those smug paladins and such come in and smack down all the evil that isn't taking it's orders from Lucan. And ideally get themselves hurt or killed in the process. Freeport gets it's enemies eliminated, Qeynos gets it's best forces eliminated or weakened, exactly where's the downside here? But no, instead of using them he has to go and tick them off. Brilliant strategy there, Tex. </sarcasm>Kelethin? An entire city populated with happy perky bugs? ... no. My dental coverage isn't good enough to cover <i>that</i> many cavities.That leaves Qeynos as the only city with a half-competent ruler in charge. OK, the goody-two-shoes need a few lessons in pragmatism, but we can probably work with this.

[Ama]

<p>Thought I would pop in and add my 2c worth to this.  I have to say personally free will as many have said plays a huge role in this.  Even though Arasai were "Created/Corrupted" into existance i'm betting Queen Cristanos didn't want a bunch of mindless zombies at her becken call.  For that she could walk out into the graveyard and conjuror some of them up.  </p><p>Even though the Arasai can be considered her creation she gave them free will.  Now this could be a "Mistake" on her part with her thinking the little arasai would just choose between fish or beef for dinner.  It would undoubtedly lead to greater decisions such as if they should leave Neriak residing in Freeport.  Beyond that they would betray her going to Qeynos or Kelethin seeking their own destiny possibly betraying Innoruuk trying to ally with Quellious or Mithaniel Marr.  </p><p>When the Arasai were corrupted I don't think Cristanos put in a spell that would "Bind" the Arasai to being evil.  That kind of power "may" have been beyond her reasoning/abilities, but she may not have done it cause it could have inhibited them making them feeble. </p><p>Just my 2c about the whole matter.  </p>

[Sapphirius]

<p>Actually, I have a different take on this, Amana. She didn't actually "create" anything. She <i>corrupted</i> the Fae. Fae already had free will before she got her hands on them. My take is not that she gave them free will so much as it is that she couldn't take it away. I think Christanos very much wanted mindless soldiers. In the Arasai books, it even speaks of her creating the Arasai to be her perfect soldiers. This is my personal opinion on it, and you're welcome to disagree.</p>

[Rainmare]

that depends on how she thought of a perfect soldier. realistically, a Fae would never turn to Innoruuk, so she corrupted them. now think of the advantages, militarily, of fae. their 'bug' form is almost impossible to detect, they can fly, thier small, thier clever, and thier quick. just being a fae makes them [Removed for Content] nice soliders...and, she wouldn't have to sacrifice any Tier'dal.and army of 15000 butterflies descends on Freeport. everyone ignores them. thier bugs. then...suddenly, it's 15000 Fae, armed, lethal and well within the walls of Freeport.that's a perfect and deadly army right there.

[Sapphirius]

The image I just got in my mind there was wrong... oh, so very wrong! /headdesk

[WeatherMan]

One way I've seen the spirit bud argument is in a 'reverse manner' (perhaps not the best way to put it, but bear with me) from what an arasai goes through upon merging with a spirit bud.The way it was explained is thusly:As there are no definitive limits on times between 'hosts', the eldritch spirit bud of, say, a recently-slain arasai who died in (and this is my memory, possibly not the actual spot told to me) Lesser Faydark - which then merges with the nearest compatible host, a young fae conjurer who has no spirit bud of her own at this point (and is, for her biography's sake, still <i>studying</i> to be a conjurer).  So this fae magi-in-training receives her spirit bud, gets congratulated, does her Rite of Passage, and so on and so forth, we all know the drill.Because the people in Kelethin have (seemingly) no way to determine such things, the arasai's spirit bud starts to influence the way the fae thinks, the way she acts, and the way she views the world around her.  Her studies start to warp in a darker direction as the memories of the spirit bud start exerting a fell influence, until the day she 'loses it', pulling an orcish skeletal warrior from the ground, and sends it to attack someone who has enraged her to a point beyond reason.  Following this incident, she is forced to flee for her life (literally) as her gruesome 'studies', which make the Grender's ravages seem like a grade-school prank, are discovered (and are discreetly hushed up on Amree's orders).Some time later, she is seen stalking the halls of Neriak, the visual novelty of a fae necromancer giving way to the image of a wholly foul and corrupted spirit that spreads out from around her seemingly serene visage - darker and more foul than any arasai is one of the born Chosen of Tunare who willingly turned her back on her people, committed acts of her own volition more horrendous than any act that would be demanded by Christanos or even Innoruuk himself, and viciously revels in the chaos, sickness, and horror she spreads...all masked behind a smooth visage of peaceful serenity (which many would contend makes it all the more horrible).  The spirit bud of the arasai can be held to task for only so much - without the free will and (more importantly) willing consent of the host to actually do these things, it is likely she would have remained a conjurer - granted, one with extreme tastes, a penchant for cruelty, and a malicious sense of humor, not to mention a volatile temper, but there could be any number of reasons to explain away any of these things.It seems to me that this scenario could very easily work in reverse, with a young arasai receiving an uncorrupted fae spirit bud of fairly ancient origin that influences them to set their feet back on Tunare's path, and abandon Neriak altogether.

[Sapphirius]

<cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote>It seems to me that this scenario could very easily work in reverse, with a young arasai receiving an uncorrupted fae spirit bud of fairly ancient origin that influences them to set their feet back on Tunare's path, and abandon Neriak altogether.</blockquote><p><nods> That's essentially what I did with Tenmou. Her spirit bud was a mistake... literally. It was a new spirit bud with no history and a recent addition to Christanos's collection. I never wrote it into the story, but it is implied that the bud itself never really went through the process of corruption. Instead, it somehow accidentally made its way out to hover amongst the already corrupted buds looking for its perfect match.</p><p>I actually had someone argue with me on AB that I couldn't have this as a backstory and that arasai buds absolutely had to be corrupted because that was what made them arasai. If her bud wasn't corrupted, then she was still a fae. She went through the story she got from a quest series for the memorial saying that the series described spirit budding process very clearly. Actually, tne memorial quest at the beginning of the book describes the creation of the Fae in general. It never actually describes in any detail how the spirit buds are formed or what happens to them. The person was quoting the original Fae lore before beta... before Owlchick changed it to its current lore.</p><p>This is one of the reasons why I would so dearly love for them to comb through the questlines that address fae and arasai and complete the lore change.</p>

[darkentity]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote>The image I just got in my mind there was wrong... oh, so very wrong! /headdesk</blockquote><p>lol speaking of wrong, you don't want to know what I thought when I saw a gnome the same height as me...other than WHY and HOW? </p><p> btw thanks for your input. Seems the problem all along has been me this entire time. I just lack creativity in most cases and can never come up with anything. So for now I'm just playing the game. :p In time I'll come up with something but I think I really need to read up on how Fae are born and how it's realitive to the Arasai.</p><p> EDIT: oops. I'm the topic creator...change of identification earlier.</p>

[Sapphirius]

<p>The Billy doll illusion also has a shrink effect. If you use it and hide your illusions, it will make you 40% smaller than you normally are.</p><p>As for the birth and stuff of Fae, <a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=392114" target="_blank">this thread</a> should help you out some. You'll be looking for Owlchick's comments that I quoted inside the thread.</p>

[Azubi]

a kitten..hmmm<div></div><div>so you grow up on a dairy farm, but you are alergic to milk. you drink water.</div><div></div>

[WeatherMan]

<cite>Sapphirius wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>WeatherMan wrote:</cite><blockquote>It seems to me that this scenario could very easily work in reverse, with a young arasai receiving an uncorrupted fae spirit bud of fairly ancient origin that influences them to set their feet back on Tunare's path, and abandon Neriak altogether.</blockquote><p><nods> That's essentially what I did with Tenmou. Her spirit bud was a mistake... literally. It was a new spirit bud with no history and a recent addition to Christanos's collection. I never wrote it into the story, but it is implied that the bud itself never really went through the process of corruption. Instead, it somehow accidentally made its way out to hover amongst the already corrupted buds looking for its perfect match.</p><p><i><b>I actually had someone argue with me on AB that I couldn't have this as a backstory</b></i> and that arasai buds absolutely had to be corrupted because that was what made them arasai. If her bud wasn't corrupted, then she was still a fae. She went through the story she got from a quest series for the memorial saying that the series described spirit budding process very clearly. Actually, tne memorial quest at the beginning of the book describes the creation of the Fae in general. It never actually describes in any detail how the spirit buds are formed or what happens to them. The person was quoting the original Fae lore before beta... before Owlchick changed it to its current lore.</p><p>This is one of the reasons why I would so dearly love for them to comb through the questlines that address fae and arasai and complete the lore change.</p></blockquote>What do they mean, <i>you couldn't</i>?  It happens to be <i>your</i> character, I certainly hope you told them that you can create any sort of backstory you bloody well please.  If they were up-to-date on the entire fae/arasai spirit budding process, including the changes that Owlchick made, they never would have had the temerity to even say that to you.  Grrrr.Sorry, but that happens to be an <i>enormous</i> peeve of mine.  "You can't"...hmph...like hell I can't.  It was your narrative of Tenmou's history that prompted me to relate what I did in the first place, and were a huge majority of what you have conceived not swamped with SOE-trademarked material, I'd make book you could write a novel about her that would be a rollicking good read.  And yes, you would <i>have</i> to include her background, perhaps seen through the eyes of a third party...maybe, in a prologue, a chagrined necromancer writing a missive to Christanos as he attempts to explain what 'went wrong' (and in my opinion, from a lore perspective, defecting arasai are an extreme exception - even the ones in Butcherblock are still working 'within the system' for the time being, as it were).In the absence of any lore that strictly and unequivocally prohibits something along the lines of what you described, I am of the opinion that:1). It is your character, not theirs.2). They have exactly <i>zero</i> business trying to ruin a great story.3). Nothing official exists that says what you've done is impossible.4). Therefore, it is exactly as you described it.  The short pier is ready for their long walk.

[Sapphirius]

<p>I just got back online yesterday from a long period of no internet (big snowstorm up here). I have to say that your comments made me laugh. I agree wholeheartedly. I have always been of the opinion that, as long as a backstory does not contain any grevious deviations from the lore, it's perfectly fine. You want to RP a werewolf or a vampire, that's fine with me. Granted, my characters will try to drive a stake through your heart, but still, if you know your lore and at least try not to totally ignore the major stuff, I don't care what backstory you write for yourself.</p><p>As for Tenmou, like I said earlier, she has been my most fun character to RP and write stories for. Some of her stories are funny. Some are sad. Some are written to address the tension of being an evil race living in a good city. Some have elements of everything in them. Her personality really came alive when she was required to tell the story of how she came to Qeynos for her guild. She's hilarious and... erm... Well, her guildmates think she's insane, which she probably is.</p><p><a href="http://guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=31547&ForumID=184672&TabID=282379&TopicID=5415656" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">The Continuing Misadventures of Tenmou Venomwing</a></p><p><a href="http://guildportal.com/Guild.aspx?GuildID=31547&ForumID=383335&TabID=282379&TopicID=3453165&Page=2" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">For Qeynos!</a></p><p>(Yes, I love to write fanfic and do so quite often, but I always do my best to research everything before I write about it.)</p>

[KniteShayd]

<p>My arasai left neriak for one reason.</p><p> Resentment.</p><p>He hated that he had to be born into servitude and entertain "masters". So he fled, leaving behind all the crap that is in neriak. He was welcomed to the Faydark by a compassionate, fae who helped him assimilate to his new life outside of Kelethin.  He may not be welcomed by all, but is grateful to Xev for his freedom, and that he was able to leave without losing his life.  From there, he's just happy-go-lucky and knows that he may, one day, have to actually fight for his freedom if his former house is actually looking for him.</p>

[Cusashorn]

<cite>Bandorn@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>My arasai left neriak for one reason.</p><p> Resentment.</p><p>He hated that he had to be born into servitude and entertain "masters". So he fled, leaving behind all the crap that is in neriak. He was welcomed to the Faydark by a compassionate, fae who helped him assimilate to his new life outside of Kelethin.  He may not be welcomed by all, but is grateful to Xev for his freedom, and that he was able to leave without losing his life.  From there, he's just happy-go-lucky and knows that he may, one day, have to actually fight for his freedom if his former house is actually looking for him.</p></blockquote>Wait, what? Grateful to the God of Money for your freedom? So basicly you paid your way out of servitude?

[Sapphirius]

<cite>Cusashorn wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wait, what? Grateful to the God of Money for your freedom? So basicly you paid your way out of servitude?</blockquote>Xev was the god of fortune... a.k.a. luck, not money. If Xev is not short for whoever this Fae character's name is, then I suppose he would consider himself very lucky to have found a new life.

[Arinwulf]

<p>As another architect of a virtual world once said: </p><p>As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99% of the test subjects accepted the program provided they were given a choice - even if they were only aware of it at a near-unconscious level. While this solution worked, it was fundamentally flawed, creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that, if left unchecked, might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those who refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster. </p>