Free Lays of Hand for everybody! just make one quest...

[MikeMatsumo]

Hi guys,I never come to here to ask soe to nerf some class.Most times i come here i just go to my class discussion and try figure out what others paladins are doing to deal with some problem.But I really will ask to soe nerf this even if recast time is 30m or 1h in pvp.<a rel="nofollow" href="http://picasaweb.google.com/mikematsumoto/Stuffs/photo#5138124138785657506" target="_blank"><img src="http://lh6.google.com/mikematsumoto/R05Irmgt0qI/AAAAAAAAAUc/7wiz-_5foBA/s144/unglued.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a>Thats a reward quests from RoK. try click in image.Ok, let me say why.if you think in scouts vs scouts, scouts vs mages, mages vs mages that item will not make difference. both will have.but as a paladin, and I pretty sure that other classes will have same problem, that will be a big problem.all times that i kill one brigand, swash or wizard i have like 3-5%hp and all my good spells like castigation, refusal, smite evil are down. now, when we both have 5% i will use that item and mage or scout will use too. ok, tell now: <b>how the hell I will hit more 2460 points? </b>while im pretty sure that a scouts/mages can do that damage pretty easy with regular CA and spells i will have only crap crap CA up that make uber 100-180 damage. god...if you think that will be only a paladin problem try image this:sk with HT and a 2460 emergency healwiz/war with manashield + emergency healbrigand with all that stunds more healand keep going...I few like they are giving a free LOH, our class spell, for everybody. please tell how I gonna kill one dps class that can heal too?anyway, who the hell care about paladins anyway? we are just another class that should not have fun try making pvp solo right? I can see comments like this:  "just go group nooob! make a scout! betray!     <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" />anyone here think that item will give a bad time for your class too?

[rvbarton]

link didn't work for your picture.  I'd like to know which quest item you are referring to.

[MikeMatsumo]

can you see now?

[MikeMatsumo]

try click in image to zoom.

[Omgidomms]

<p>Yeah it needs a nerf cause it's the same for any class! </sarcasm></p>

[rvbarton]

it's a level 80 item!  You make it sound like any class at any level can obtain it.  Looks completely fair to me.

[Tae]

The recast for me is 4 minutes and 44 seconds and it heals for 2.5k in PvP. I have it on.

[Roald]

<p>I i'd imagine that is would be toned down a bit seeing as that recast is tiny for such a big heal.</p><p>Question: how hard is the quest to get this item?</p>

[Naglfar]

<cite>Milambers@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I i'd imagine that is would be toned down a bit seeing as that recast is tiny for such a big heal.</p><p>Question: how hard is the quest to get this item?</p></blockquote>Like any other quest in RoK : easy. You just have to finish an instance then kill a single other mob.

[sprogn]

<p>So you're crying nerf because something that can heal max 25% of your hitpoints in PVP is available to EVERYONE?</p><p>Good grief, does it never end???</p>

[MikeMatsumo]

i think you guys are not listen me...EVERYBODY will have. yes.but its not fair because big heals like that should be class specific spells.how i see the both guys that comment here was a necro and berser.do you guys think you will have any chance against one ranger, sk, wiz that can heal like that each 4m ?I knew that posts like that will happen. I mean, if im a class that dont have heals, why i should complain? i have good dps and now  I have a good heal too. uber.how i say, that will put paladins in top of worse class. but who cares if your class still on top right?im pretty sure that soe dont have a chance to check whats going on with pvp if every class have that.naglfar, whats the cast time in that?

[Tae]

Just so you know it is really, really easy to interrupt. It's almost impossible to use against mobs, let alone people.

[Avokk]

I smell an all across the board nerf incoming due to some PvP crybabies When will SoE stop skrooing around PvE for a handful of Pvp whiners ?Everyone has it, complaining about will only [Removed for Content] everyone off

[SolomanShort]

So, this item is easily available to ANY and EVERY class, and you say it is unfair because you don't hit very hard??You can use it to heal for the same amount as anybody else.If you have it, and the next dude you come across doesn't have it, should YOU then be nerfed or something? You want SoE to code so that it checks to see if you are both equal enough to have a fight?Really, you need to find something worth crying about. Oh wait, no you don't.

[Hikinami]

They could make Lay on Hands be a % like they should have. Its sad to see an item that just takes a class specific spell and hands it out.

[Akin]

<cite>Avokk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I smell an all across the board nerf incoming due to some PvP crybabies When will SoE stop skrooing around PvE for a handful of Pvp whiners ?Everyone has it, complaining about will only [Removed for Content] everyone off</blockquote>Considering that Vox and Nagy are 2 of the busiest servers i doubt SoE will ever stop.And as far as the OP goes, yes this is going to make it allot harder for lower dps/utility classes in PvP.   However it's pretty glaringly obvious that SOE doesn't care a bit about solo PvP class balance.  So, while i really feel for you Eom i doubt this will get a fix but i hope it does for your sake.

[Tae]

<cite>Timerian@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Considering that <b>Vox</b> and Nagy are 2 of the busiest servers i doubt SoE will ever stop.</blockquote>Wait what

[HerbertWalker]

<p>The issue is not that it is unfair.   Unfair in this game's comtext implies that some <b>players</b> have an advatange over other <b>players</b>.   Since all players have the ability to play the best class, then all is fair in-game.</p><p>The issue is that it <u>might</u> serve to <u>imbalance</u> the classes even further.   It <u>might</u> make Paladins even easier to beat solo for those classes that can already easily defeat Paladins.</p><p>A good choice for a new item would be one which works in the opposite direction - one that serves to give Paladins, Guardians, etc a better chance to defeat the top tier solo pvp classes.   That would bring us one baby step closer to balanced solo classes.   But I don't remember hearing any dev say that balancing the classes for solo play is an important consideration.   They are cool with the fact that no one plays Paladins.</p>

[Norrsken]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The issue is not that it is unfair.   Unfair in this game's comtext implies that some <b>players</b> have an advatange over other <b>players</b>.   Since all players have the ability to play the best class, then all is fair in-game.</p><p>The issue is that it <u>might</u> serve to <u>imbalance</u> the classes even further.   It <u>might</u> make Paladins even easier to beat solo for those classes that can already easily defeat Paladins.</p><p>A good choice for a new item would be one which works in the opposite direction - one that serves to give Paladins, Guardians, etc a better chance to defeat the top tier solo pvp classes.   That would bring us one baby step closer to balanced solo classes.   But I don't remember hearing any dev say that balancing the classes for solo play is an important consideration.   They are cool with the fact that no one plays Paladins.</p></blockquote>Truth be told, pallies are one of the harder kills for most of my toons, if that pally stands and fights that is. Most of them seem to just run for most of the fight.

[Rainmare]

I don't play pvp...but I see his complaint.it takes a paladin at least a good 10-15 seconds, unless both Smite Evil, and our other big nuke are up, to do the damage that clicky heals for.where as, a scout/mage can do that kind of damage in say, 3 seconds. hell I seen rangers auto attacking for the damage of my biggest nuke.so, it might take you 6 more seconds to kill him, but another 15 at least for them to think of killing you. provided he hits LoH, and then hits this clicky.

[XeroXs84]

Lets all roll the same class and lock at the same level... lets all do the same quests for the same gear.. lets all stick to appr1 spellsonly way to fiar pvp imho.

[convict]

What the Op is saying is... This gives all classes a "Lay on Hands", kind of like giving pally's HT, only its a 4 min timer.

[Elephanton]

<p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ffff00;">WHAAAAAAAAAAH </span></p><p><span style="font-size: medium;color: #ffff00;">This item is not fair because it will actually make PVP battles longer, which is totally uncalled for.</span></p><p>/sarcasm off</p>

[Vydar]

<cite>Supernatural@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>So, this item is easily available to ANY and EVERY class, and you say it is unfair because you don't hit very hard??You can use it to heal for the same amount as anybody else.If you have it, and the next dude you come across doesn't have it, should YOU then be nerfed or something? You want SoE to code so that it checks to see if you are both equal enough to have a fight?Really, you need to find something worth crying about. Oh wait, no you don't.</blockquote>And doesn't this mean you get TWO Lay on Hands?  Hmm...

[deepruntramp]

Everyone can buy plat. Why complain about it if you can do it too?

[Jeridor]

<p>I agree with the OP.</p><p>The fact it's a level 80 item is irrevelant. Everyone who is in the high level game will be 80 soon, if they aren't now.</p><p>The OP's point is this: Do you think all classes are anywhere close to being able to dish out 2,500 hp of damage in the same time frame? Certainly he's correct in that some classes have no prayer to match others, such as tanks vs. a scout or mage.</p><p>But I think we're once again just at the root of the overall problem - terrible class imbalances. We all know that plate mitigation means very little on the whole, and it's supposed to be one of the saving graces of playing a lower dps tank.</p><p>BTW, I don't play a tank.</p>

[Jeridor]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone can buy plat. Why complain about it if you can do it too?</blockquote>You're just begging to start a tangent debate here. I think it's fair to say that some people have less excess RL money than others and some will and have cried foul over it. Not to mention the fact that anyone who buys plat from a plat farmer vs. exchange server is giving spammers all the more incentive to continue.

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>I don't play pvp, but what I see here is that a pally could have two Lay on Hands and that everyone, read it, *everyone* gets a clicky heal.</p><p>As a poster said, it is very easy to interrupt.</p><p>All it would do if someone does manage to get it off is to make the fights longer.</p><p>What exactly is the problem? Is it about pvp balance...</p><p>or you don't want to share a pally spell?</p>

[Jeridor]

We have people who say they use it, and no one has said I have it and it sucks. That tells me that interruptions, casting time, etc is not a high concern currently.

[Snowlywhite]

catch 51... loh is good because it's instant... this thing ain't... unintreruptable/instant >>> all in pvp...next, you're gonna say hex dolls are imba, despite noone using them...

[Darlion]

<p>This thing isn't overpowered, it's not even that good. It takes like 3 seconds to cast, you cannot do it on the run, and any knockback, and even melee damage, especially on people who haven't leveled focus, can interupt it, and at best on most people it's 20% health.</p><p> Nothing to see here, move along.</p>

[Belaythien]

The OP's point is totally valid. Even if everybody can get it, classes with fewer HP benefit most.Just imagine everbody could increase health by 20k. Low damage/high HP classes loose their advantage of high HP. However high damage classes keep their high DPS advantage and have high HP now, too. 20k are of course extreme but it makes a point. 2,5k aren't as bad but it still benefits low HP classes more. On top of that, class specific special heals get less decisive as their contribution to a fight is lessened relatively.Should anything get changed please make sure it only affects PvP and not PvE <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />

[MikeMatsumo]

Pyra Shineflame,in fact both.how you will feel if you are a scout and every class in game have a evac item?but im more worry about balance.some people here understand exaclty what im saying.yes i will have 2 LoH. but how some people say here: i will take like 15 seconds or more to take down 2500 hit points from someone while scouts/mages will take only 6 seconds.and Kalath, i respect you as paladin, but i wanna see your post here again when you fight with a good sk that can HT+heal that amount and a brigand too...i say good ones because im pretty sure you still dont have a good fight with one because everybody still lvling try gear and i dont see no one running solo out there.i was playing in beta with full flabed gear + master and a sk with same gear and they was totally crazy. special with more 40 aa and few points that help they heal. now i can just not image that class with a big heal.but again, im not asking for nerf ANY class.im asking for soe think better about how that item will be bad for classes with lower dps

[Omgidomms]

<p>The item is ok, it's just that Paladins really suck at solo pvp..Come join the club!</p>

[Siphar]

<p>I have this item and have <u><b>tried</b></u> to use it in PvP.</p><p>The fact is the cast time is <b>very long</b> (for PvP) and it can be <b>very easily interupted</b>. It seems any knockback, stun or even some types of damage interupt it.</p><p>Lay hands is instant isn't it? this therefore is very different and nothing like lay hands... (nor does it heal for as much I expect)..</p><p>IMO nothing to see here and move along..</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Eomnir@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pyra Shineflame,in fact both.how you will feel if you are a scout and every class in game have a evac item?but im more worry about balance.some people here understand exaclty what im saying.yes i will have 2 LoH. but how some people say here: i<span style="color: #ff3366;"> will take like 15 seconds or more to take down 2500 hit points </span>from someone while scouts/mages will take only 6 seconds.and Kalath, i respect you as paladin, but i wanna see your post here again when you fight with a good sk that can HT+heal that amount and a brigand too...i say good ones because im pretty sure you still dont have a good fight with one because everybody still lvling try gear and i dont see no one running solo out there.i was playing in beta with full flabed gear + master and a sk with same gear and they was totally crazy. special with more 40 aa and few points that help they heal. now i can just not image that class with a big heal.but again, im not asking for nerf ANY class.im asking for soe think better about how that item will be bad for classes with lower dps</blockquote><p>Time to upgrade from app1 (or adp1) if you ask me and increase your STR and INT if you are hitting this low.</p><p>I have been hit by yourself (as a scout) for ~500/melee (per ~3 secs) and add in your divine damage = not to shabby DPS at all.</p><p>Exaggeration if you ask me..</p><p>Predators and rogues by the way I'm sure can do ~2500 damage to a non-plate in probably 2-3 seconds (if not less) and probably 4-6 seconds for plate depending on their gear/skill/aa and class.</p>

[Snowlywhite]

umm... guess what, every class in the game has an evac. item?which actually is usable since you can evac. when you spot that group far away... while for this you have to be engaged in combat, and 3s cast in combat ain't the most sexy thing around...

[MikeMatsumo]

i really dont think paladin sux in one vs one.i agree thats not a trivial class to learn how to win each class special in t7-t8.but is a strong class to win in one vs one.but if that item works in pvp...man, thats my fear.

[Gareorn]

I rank this call for nerfage right down there with the calls to nerf evac and tracking. Good grief. Doesn't anyone like a little challenge to their game play anymore? Is "challange" some sort of "old school" mentality that went out with the 20th century?

[MikeMatsumo]

and you play with a dps class right? prolly scoutwheres the challenge for a dps class?be a tank in pvp server is ALREADY a good challenge.

[Gareorn]

Doesn't matter. I view all calls for nerfs with disdain no matter who or what class it affects. To me it's an issue of character.

[Psych]

Hi...I came for the free lay of hands?and buttery biscuits please.Jokes aside....as an enchanter I'd want this. We have plenty of ways to delay an opponent so that we can make good use of it. Mez. 20% Heal. Thanks!Really, I hate other classes charming monsters so I feel for this guy. Its humiliating to have classes that already do something BETTER than you dps, tank, etc....to start doing something else just as well as you do.Ofcourse pallys can use it too right...so as a pally it gives you an extra heal right? You still have THAT over everyone else. I'd still be really mad about an item giving every class an AOE mez/stun though...so I feel ya...Also to OP...is english your second language? Brush up man, speaking more clearly makes people take your post more seriously. No offense, just a tip.

[Pyra Shineflame]

<cite>Eomnir@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Pyra Shineflame,in fact both.<b>how you will feel if you are a scout and every class in game have a evac item?</b>but im more worry about balance.some people here understand exaclty what im saying.yes i will have 2 LoH. but how some people say here: i will take like 15 seconds or more to take down 2500 hit points from someone while scouts/mages will take only 6 seconds.and Kalath, i respect you as paladin, but i wanna see your post here again when you fight with a good sk that can HT+heal that amount and a brigand too...i say good ones because im pretty sure you still dont have a good fight with one because everybody still lvling try gear and i dont see no one running solo out there.i was playing in beta with full flabed gear + master and a sk with same gear and they was totally crazy. special with more 40 aa and few points that help they heal. now i can just not image that class with a big heal.but again, im not asking for nerf ANY class.im asking for soe think better about how that item will be bad for classes with lower dps</blockquote><p>We already have evac items...I know I used Vial of Escape on my zerker to evac. Why should scouts feel belittled since I have to pay or do a quest for something they can do for free as many times as they want barring cool down?</p><p>Clicky items, especially for pvp, is never as uber as it sounds on paper. </p><p>As for dps burning you down...without the item it would still take you longer to kill them than you.</p><p>Having a easily interruptable heal only makes it last longer since you have two.</p>

[MikeMatsumo]

yeah, english its not my primary language. im still learn, so sorry.but im pretty sure if you WANNA understand me you can.if you still cant understand because my english is too bad ready the message from Belaythien."<span class="postbody">The OP's point is totally valid. Even if everybody can get it, classes with fewer HP benefit most.Just imagine everbody could increase health by 20k. Low damage/high HP classes loose their advantage of high HP. However high damage classes keep their high DPS advantage and have high HP now, too. 20k are of course extreme but it makes a point. 2,5k aren't as bad but it still benefits low HP classes more. On top of that, class specific special heals get less decisive as their contribution to a fight is lessened relatively.Should anything get changed please make sure it only affects PvP and not PvE"thats exactly what im trying say...</span>

[Urgol]

IMO it's banlanced, even with a 5 min recast you cant have it more than once per combat, its easilly interruptable, spell type casting is required etc. But combined with 'some' (read: mez) control its more then decent, its really good..btw, not only chanters have got mes