Despite everything i heard on these forums ..

[shogun007]

We cannot efficiently kill named mobs , when compared to summoner /brawler class. I farmed with my bruiser and my necro/conjuror for a really long time. its my hobby really although i made over 30 plats for t3-t4 masters i was pricing them to sell , not to make profit.  I have experience with killling named mobs , tons of it. But while my coercer is loved in any group and can tear through solo stuff blazingly fast , he stays out of the named fight and thats for a reason . I saw some really good tactics here like setting pet on ranged and cycling through stuns then remezzing till pet gets health or power again. Few little problems , first mob around u will respawn while u taking your time remezzing /killing, u cant root nameds and setpet on ranged because full room of heroic mobs that just happen to surround every named in pretty much any dungeon will come after u , your pet many times will do aoe  if its caster he can do aoe as well, you pet will die from named mob in 3 hits and your root will get resisted etc etc....We dont have FD , our only deaggro spell affects aoe mobs and teleports us where we get ourselrves in bigger problems..  there just way too many "IF " to call ourselves efficient named mob killers. I dont use coercer for farming anymore but please do not talk about how good we are at killing named , we suck at that matter. I know i am only level 30 but from what i ve seen the situation will not change much at later levels. And yes i have master charm maxed subj and going down wisdom line for more subj so no problems here. Please do not take it as a rant , just stating the obvious.

[rvbarton]

my head hurts now from trying to read that format.

[110euph]

You're level 30, and you're making all these declarations?  Impressive!I'm a level 42 coercer, and I can solo tripple ups.  I watched a lvl 68 coercer solo a tripple up named in Bonemyre, and he told me he can solo all of Halls of Fate.  He's currently level 79, while maintaining an active raid schedule and a 40 hour work week.  At level 52 you will get a reactive stun spell.  Combine that with Auspex and Spell Lash and mobs will die whenever they look at you.  My final point is thus:  In EQ1 I spent 5 years as a cleric, griping and complaining that I couldn't do the things a magician could do.  Then I abandoned the cleric, made a magician, and I WAS HAPPY.  If you don't want to play Coercer, there are 23 other classes for you to enjoy.   Try one.

[Rarlin]

I think somebody forgot to tell the new guy that he's going to die a lot while trying to learn the class (and a lot after he learns it).  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[shogun007]

Lol if i wanted to play another class i would play it already because its level 1-30 when u make it or break it as a coercer . every level right now feels like a breeze compared to 10 levels ago. I played 23 other classes u mentioned some more some less , and finally i picked this class , dont know why i guess i am sado -)) like i mentioned before i played others and others had their ups and downs so after comparison i posted what i know from my own experience as level 30 coercer.Maybe coercer drastically changes in a few levels i didnt see much difference when looking at the spells but hey i am a noob coercer . If u wanna tell how and why i am wrong based on facts feel free to share i am always open to an opinion. I created this topic because evryone had such a great pride at farming named mobs where i had about 200 deaths for the last 3 days and i am the one who is efficient at farming , done it many times , done it with totally different classes etc etc..

[Taharn]

Think of coercer's like a toolbelt. And that toolbelt doesn't get full until you hit 50 when you have most of your spells and AAs. Durations on your control spells get longer (which means you can be dpsing the mob longer) and it becomes ALMOST possible to permanently have a mob controlled without having it mezzed. Just hang in there.

[shogun007]

Hmm interesting thank you... Just curious what are major changes in terms of aggro and named killing from level 30 to level 50? Maybe i went too far with my opinion , but i used to play classes that get most of their abilities by level 30 so killing named not a problem for them at that level.  So, what changes?

[netglen]

So with Coercer, it's actually an endurance race to L.52 and you can pretty much skip past the usual hardcore AA grind?

[netglen]

<cite>Vicante@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>and it becomes ALMOST possible to permanently have a mob controlled without having it mezzed. Just hang in there.</blockquote>Can you share the details on this?

[Aurumn]

<p>I'm not sure if this will help you or not, but I took my coercer down the AGI line to speed up casting time. It seems to help me when I need to get a mezz/root/stun off fast in a pinch. With AD3 charm and a few points in charm on the Coercer Tree I manage to keep a pet and hold off the target fairly well at 32. </p><p>One of the best things to do is leave some distance between yourself and your target. That way you'll have some breathing room if an AoE hits, adds join the party or something else goes south. I usually try to stand at max distance from the target so I can nuke from safety. I'm still trying to learn the knack of getting pets to do ranged attacks reliably so I often just use them as a tank. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As for deaths... don't forget to keep your local Mender on your Frostfell Card mailing list. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> You guys are going to be best buds.</p>

[Life777form]

Other classes like necros are far easier to solo heroics especially early on, but the coercer will take harder things, especially later on.  A fiegn death would be godly though.

[branvil]

<p>I don't find that to be the case at all.  I was soloing with my coercer in SFM last night and ran up on a yellow con named mob..  I had very little problem with it and that was with two groups watching.</p><p>I've not met a Brawler that can take yellow con named mobs that's not fully fabled/mastered and even then I would be very impressed...</p><p>I'm level 39 in case your wondering... not to far from where your at now.   If your having problems you could always spec down the Wisdom line while leveling up..   I am speced that way. Every mezz, root, or stun I throw sticks and sticks for the duration.  Makes you a very powerful solo killer. </p>

[netglen]

<cite>Life777form wrote:</cite><blockquote>Other classes like necros are far easier to solo heroics especially early on, but the coercer will take harder things, especially later on.  A fiegn death would be godly though.</blockquote>We can hope that they'll add a totem for FD on day? J/K. Really. Maybe not. <blockquote>I'm level 39 in case your wondering... not to far from where your at now. If your having problems you could always spec down the Wisdom line while leveling up.. I am speced that way. Every mezz, root, or stun I throw sticks and sticks for the duration. Makes you a very powerful solo killer.</blockquote>I put the first 5 AA into Charm and the remaining 5 into the WIS line. I'm actually trying to have fun with the Coercer alt and I'm bypassing the whole AA grind. But if I'm reading the AA threads correctly, there are only a few things that are needed in the Coercer trees.

[branvil]

<p>5 AA in charm is a must in my opinion if your going to solo at all.   Wisdom is not the build for high level coercers that raid and do a lot of group instances but for soloing and small grouping up through the levels it's nice to have.  </p><p>The line as a whole is not so great but the second to last AA that increases subj (I think its second to last) really helps with soloing.  As you get higher level and more gear with +subj is available then it becomes less useful..</p>

[shogun007]

I have 5 points in charm and i am going Wisdom line and i have master charm as well. Charmed caster mob in ROV and went to kill the easiest mob there -Spider Queen.  After some mezzing and rooting nuking (melee type named ^^) i managed to kill her . it felt great for 1 minute then  charm randomly breaks , in the middle of spider / ooze crowd all blue heroics around 6 of them , 2 seconds and i am dead . If thats what u call efficient then something definetely wrong with me .

[shogun007]

On the other side cant play my summoner alts anymore -)) They just feel so boring ..

[branvil]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have 5 points in charm and i am going Wisdom line and i have master charm as well. Charmed caster mob in ROV and went to kill the easiest mob there -Spider Queen.  After some mezzing and rooting nuking (melee type named ^^) i managed to kill her . it felt great for 1 minute then  charm randomly breaks , in the middle of spider / ooze crowd all blue heroics around 6 of them , 2 seconds and i am dead . If thats what u call efficient then something definetely wrong with me .</blockquote><p>If there was no chance of the charm breaking then the class would be just like a summoner.. easymode.  I personally like the challenge of dealing with the unexpected.  </p><p>If the class was easy to play and easy to be successful  then you would see coercers standing on every corner of Norath like you do summoners..</p><p>You mentioned that you were going down the Wisdom line.  Does that mean you've finished it or working on it?  Reason I ask is, you don't notice the difference until you fill out the part of the line that increases you subj skills.. and not just one or two points in it but 6-8</p><p>As for your death to the spider queen.. I've had things like that happen plenty, but the fun lies in reviving and going back for more.. when you do finally take the mob down it feels much more rewarding then just mowing through every mob you come across with little effort.. </p><p>just my two cents.. but if you want my opinion here it is.   If you don't like it now you won't like it later.. don't waste your time playing a class you don't enjoy.  Every class I've taken to cap since the game was released is a class i've enjoyed from the start. </p>

[netglen]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have 5 points in charm and i am going Wisdom line and i have master charm as well. Charmed caster mob in ROV and went to kill the easiest mob there -Spider Queen.  After some mezzing and rooting nuking (melee type named ^^) i managed to kill her . it felt great for 1 minute then  charm randomly breaks , in the middle of spider / ooze crowd all blue heroics around 6 of them , 2 seconds and i am dead . If thats what u call efficient then something definetely wrong with me .</blockquote>That so called easy mob is not so easy. The Spider Queen in that first pit on RoV actually has two linked bodyguards which roam around the pit so even when you target her, you may not see her two stooges due to the terrain and mushroom cover. I remember taking on that named with my Conj and it was a tough battle even when it conned blue to me. It was the poison which would kick my rear. But as soon as the named went from blue to green, the battle started to become trivial. The other spiders in the pit will not social aggro so I usually tag the spider named and run quickly to the entrance of RoV to fight. I dislike having to worry about that patrol of bats respawning on me during the battle.

[shogun007]

Well i went wisdom all the way at first then respecced and upgraded Haruspex. Now i am almost at + sub ability need 2 more points to start it.About liking or disliking coercer hmm...  I have love hate relationship with this class , it gets me mad to the point i wanna delete him and i start looking at another classes or play my alts but after half hour i come back and start playing coercer again lol till the next frustration comes my way .I can solo just fine and grps love its just that named killing issue i had problems with .

[shogun007]

Well i farmed ROV on my necro plenty of times and comparing to many other named queen is pretty easy. Its not solo mob and area around must be cleared  of course.

[Bärchi]

have you ever tried to use a chamed mage/priest with /pet ranged and root ?and 5 points to charm is a must.

[netglen]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>About liking or disliking coercer hmm...  I have love hate relationship with this class , it gets me mad to the point i wanna delete him and i start </blockquote>I'm pretty much keep bouncing back and forth between Coercer and my L.80 Conj. When I get bored with Conj while trying to find a team and killing named, I pull out hte Coercer. Whenever I die a few times as Coercer, I get frustrated and go back Conj. I think the only reason why I didn't delete the Coercer was due to the fact of all the Master spell books I bought.  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[shogun007]

yes i used /pet ranged thats how i kill QueenAnd i have 5 points there -)Wasnt sure if u asking me this question just to verify.

[Korpo]

Because <i>you</i> don't know how to farm nameds with your coercer doesn't mean the class isn't good at it.

[Azmode]

Get your tinkering skill up and you can Feign Dead no problem.   Been playing a Coercer since day 1 and you wont find a better/faster soloer.  Unfortunately they are a snoozer to raid with.    I dont miss the non stop single target/cast 2 min clarity buffs though... god whoever designed that!   <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[shogun007]

FD sounds handy , any other bonuses of tinkering for coercer?  Never really thought about tinkering P

[Obsidiann]

sounds like you're playing the wrong class then <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[shogun007]

Is it worth it to spend 2 plats for beguile master if u already have coerce master? Except duration what are the benefits ?

[Turb]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is it worth it to spend 2 plats for beguile master if u already have coerce master? Except duration what are the benefits ?</blockquote>None.   Well, regen rates are better.

[shogun007]

Thx , i read that regen rates are really unsignificant so ill pass -)

[shogun007]

Ok pretty typical situation . I went to ROV charmed blue caster pet (debuffed him before charm)  and i went to kill named Tormentor nearby. I decided to clear out some bat roamers around his room. 30 seconds passes after i charmed him, he attacks heroics, immediately breaks and kills me.Ok, stuff  happens  i came back to ROV charm this guy again ( all others are linked and there are no single caster mobs nearby) i get him to exact same place i order him to attack the roamers. After 5-7 seconds he breaks again but i manage to charm him and encounter he attacked so i eventulally recharmed him and killed heroic bats. Right after fight my HP is around 3-4% he breaks again , not even 10 seconds passed since i charmed him and so die again. I check combat log , saying to myself it could have been cleric type mob with high mental resists , nope its a wizard who deals heat and cold damage . Umm is it normal , will it continue like this? I haven put any points yet in +sub from Wis line, maybe this will help?But as far as i understand + sub it lets u charm relaibly higher level mobs and this mob is blue. I searched but + sub items on T 4 are pretty much nonexistant , or very rare. So how things looking up in regards to charm later on? Any tips will be greatly appreciated -))

[netglen]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Is it worth it to spend 2 plats for beguile master if u already have coerce master? Except duration what are the benefits ?</blockquote>I picked up a Coercer Master for 39 gold last night. So it looks like I picked up the Masters for Charm, Coerce, Beguile and Dominate for less the 4P all together.

[EDofEDs]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not take it as a rant , just stating the obvious.</blockquote>That is my favorite part right there lol.Look, just about EVERY class changes drastically between mid and upper level.  This class in particular changes more then most.  Your not to the sweet spot yet.And, as has been said before here, if you don't like coercers, then delete yours and walk away from it.  It can be a VERY frustrating class when not played exactly right, and playing it exactly right does not come easy at all.  In fact, IMHO this is probably the hardest class to play truly well because there are so many nuances.I myself am on my 5 enchanter (2nd coercer).  I have yet to keep one past 31 (was an illusionist) because it can get frustrating.  Mind you I haven't tried since before AAs were in game though so I have high hopes this time through (and so far they are showing great promise).  Charm AA makes me gigle like a school girl <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.

[netglen]

I visited Butcher Block for the first time with my Coercer last night and I was trying hard to find a suitable charm minion around L.20. Turtles....nah.Rust Monsters....nah.Birds....nah.Basiliks....nah.Wande ring Spirit Wisp....nice to see it nuke down 60% of a mob's HP, but they're L.24 orange and charm breaks too soon.Aqua Goblin Runts ... Sorry hero uncharmable.Iksar Bruiser Soloing .... Bingo! I recruited that player into my team and we cleaned up all the local quests on the beach.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />So why are the aqua goblins uncharmable? What makes them so special besides being a target of two kill-quests? I might have kept using the high risk Wandering Spirits except when the charm breaks and I'm far enough away, they start floating back up the cliffs and out of my charm range. So I'm guessing the perfect mobs to charm are far and scarce?

[shogun007]

<cite>Dominik@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not take it as a rant , just stating the obvious.</blockquote>That is my favorite part right there lol.Look, just about EVERY class changes drastically between mid and upper level.  This class in particular changes more then most.  Your not to the sweet spot yet.And, as has been said before here, if you don't like coercers, then delete yours and walk away from it.  It can be a VERY frustrating class when not played exactly right, and playing it exactly right does not come easy at all.  In fact, IMHO this is probably the hardest class to play truly well because there are so many nuances.I myself am on my 5 enchanter (2nd coercer).  I have yet to keep one past 31 (was an illusionist) because it can get frustrating.  Mind you I haven't tried since before AAs were in game though so I have high hopes this time through (and so far they are showing great promise).  Charm AA makes me gigle like a school girl <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</blockquote>     I am on my third coercer  and my last one P.  I will continue playing him lol i am stubborn as hell ( i hope) about the classes change, necros        and conjurors have most abilities by level 30 and so are bruisers. Spells that make them good farmers , hell i am not talking about lich,           planeshift   or stuff like that , it does help but i farmed very well without them too . Bruisers =same thing , their get their FD early and with               MS   set (cheap ) and weapon u can tear through stuff. Class is frustrating indeed but i am willing to take this challenge .

[shogun007]

<cite>netglen wrote:</cite><blockquote>I visited Butcher Block for the first time with my Coercer last night and I was trying hard to find a suitable charm minion around L.20. Turtles....nah.Rust Monsters....nah.Birds....nah.Basiliks....nah.Wande ring Spirit Wisp....nice to see it nuke down 60% of a mob's HP, but they're L.24 orange and charm breaks too soon.Aqua Goblin Runts ... Sorry hero uncharmable.Iksar Bruiser Soloing .... Bingo! I recruited that player into my team and we cleaned up all the local quests on the beach.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />So why are the aqua goblins uncharmable? What makes them so special besides being a target of two kill-quests? I might have kept using the high risk Wandering Spirits except when the charm breaks and I'm far enough away, they start floating back up the cliffs and out of my charm range. So I'm guessing the perfect mobs to charm are far and scarce?</blockquote>                 That zone lacks good pets , i used wisps there , then i got Sibiliyant and stopped caring about choice of mobs.

[EDofEDs]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dominik@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Please do not take it as a rant , just stating the obvious.</blockquote>That is my favorite part right there lol.Look, just about EVERY class changes drastically between mid and upper level.  This class in particular changes more then most.  Your not to the sweet spot yet.And, as has been said before here, if you don't like coercers, then delete yours and walk away from it.  It can be a VERY frustrating class when not played exactly right, and playing it exactly right does not come easy at all.  In fact, IMHO this is probably the hardest class to play truly well because there are so many nuances.I myself am on my 5 enchanter (2nd coercer).  I have yet to keep one past 31 (was an illusionist) because it can get frustrating.  Mind you I haven't tried since before AAs were in game though so I have high hopes this time through (and so far they are showing great promise).  Charm AA makes me gigle like a school girl <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/499fd50bc713bfcdf2ab5a23c00c2d62.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />.</blockquote>     I am on my third coercer  and my last one P.  I will continue playing him lol i am stubborn as hell ( i hope) about the classes change, necros        and conjurors have most abilities by level 30 and so are bruisers. Spells that make them good farmers , hell i am not talking about lich,           planeshift   or stuff like that , it does help but i farmed very well without them too . Bruisers =same thing , their get their FD early and with               MS   set (cheap ) and weapon u can tear through stuff. Class is frustrating indeed but i am willing to take this challenge .</blockquote>Yeah, but your talking about the 3 easy-mode classes.  This class is not easy mode, in fact this class is hard mode TBH.  You can't slip up once or it bites you in the butt.Bruiser/Summoners, to put it in a numeric range, start with a power rating of 3-4 and move up to a power rating of 9-10 at a pretty fast and even rate.  It doesn't take a genius to figure out those classes.  It's not a free level 80 by playing one but it is not anywhere near the difficulty of playing a enchanter class, plain and simple.Coercers start at 1-3 and stay there till mid 30s then move to 5-6, then later up to a 7-8.  Now that is with the regular joe behind the wheel.  With skill though a coercer is capable of 10-15 power rating.  But it takes ALLOT of skill, it is completely unforgiving.  And on top of that you do get the untimely resist that can crush even the best of us.

[Jesdyr]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Class is frustrating indeed but i am willing to take this challenge .</blockquote>You just dont know how to play it yet.  Get a Master I charm .. put 5pts into charm AA and get 8 into the WIS ability to increase Subj. This is very important for a solo coercer. That Master I charm is 100% priority over all other spells because it is your best DPS. Truth is there are many tactics you can use to get the job done. What one you use is going to be based on the zone and what you are attempting to kill. It takes time to learn what you can do but if you can stick with it and learn from your mistakes, you will be fine. Coercers can solo things no other class can.

[shogun007]

Once again let me remind u  that i am the one that has master charm, 5 points in charm enchancment and going down Wis line . On top of it i am looking for + sub gear twice a day . No problems here.

[EDofEDs]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Once again let me remind u  that i am the one that has master charm, 5 points in charm enchancment and going down Wis line . On top of it i am looking for + sub gear twice a day . No problems here.</blockquote>If it is not a problem then why do you have 2 topics (including this one) that are obvious rant/complaints about coercer abilities?  It's 100% true that if you don't think charm is stable or strong enough now it is not going to get a whole lot better before end game.  You will get more abilities for handling trouble by then but there isn't going to be a magic level when we suddenly become god-like.  What your playing now is pretty similar to what is coming for the next 50 levels all the way to 80.  Yes you will be able to get allot more +subj but it will never play like a summoner pet, ever.  It will break from time to time, it will smear you all over the ground in a crimson paste some of those times.  You either gotta get used to that idea or this just isn't the class for you.This isn't an attack or anything against you, I'm just pointing out that there is no Planeshift or Lich coming up.  There is no FD easy-out button.  It's hard now and its only going to get marginally easier from here on in.

[shogun007]

It looked from your post Dominic that u havent gotten past level 31 on your coercer , yet u have all the information about how its gonna be for next 50 levels . Not trying to question your knowledge , i just noticed that some posts here has lead me to believe that situation will change at later levels. I am just trying to get detailed information on how is going to be later on, thats all.

[shogun007]

By saying "No problems here " i meant that i done all that stuff or almost done it to be exact . I respecced and put some points into improved Haruspex which improved my damage by far , so i am missing out on + sub from Wis line.

[Taharn]

Actually Dominik, there will come a time when your pet does become almost like a summoner pet. And even when it does break, you dont get smeared into the ground, you calmly control the situation and carry on.Of course, if you're charming heroics and grinding the middle of a field full of aggro heroic spellcasters this might not be the case, but that very rarely happens <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />PS, to netglen who's in butcherblock at the moment and looking for pets. 1 more level and your wisps will be a lot easier to handle, but till then you could try out the yarpsnarl mystic mobs.

[netglen]

<cite>Vicante@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>PS, to netglen who's in butcherblock at the moment and looking for pets. 1 more level and your wisps will be a lot easier to handle, but till then you could try out the yarpsnarl mystic mobs. </blockquote>I actually went back to Nek Forest and used a particular mob to quickly grind out a level or two and completed several quests that dropped from chests. Now the BB quests are starting to turn blue and it's been a lot easier to quest there. I'll have to try out the Yapsnarl Mystics again. I wasn't that impressed with the Bugbear Shaman/Mystic. The Coercer has a big learning curve but I think I'm learning the ropes. Get yourself into a situation with the right charmed mob and prey and I can grind XP faster then my Conj/Necro for the duration of the Charm. But it's highly situational depending upon your current region, level and mob prey/charm choices. But I've gotten myself into situations where multiple adds peppered into a fight at different times would have smeared my Conj/Necro but my Coercer was able to stun/mez/root park until everything was managed and dead. Of course there were times I only had 2% life but it was a hell of a lot more fun then my Conj/Necro. I really miss my AEs but it is a different mage class after all.I need to take a closer look at some of the spells that I haven't been using and make sure I'm not missing anything useful in my spell line. Can anyone share their typical solo/team spell casting orders?---==== UPDATE ====---I tried out the Yapsnarl Mystic and it wasn't too bad. The nuke was kinda weak but it was better then most mobs in the region. The only issue I had with it was during quiet times between pulls, it sounded like an asthmatic heavy breather making a prank phone call over my shoulder.

[S_M_I_T_E]

<p><span style="color: #00ff00;">Has there been a stealth DE-NERF of the coercer charm? </span> </p><p>I'm rolling around in Blackburrow with my 18 Coercer and I charm a 15^^^ gnoll and it stays ^^^ heroic and handles two 14^^^ no problem.  It's hp's weren't effected.  </p><p>I was being mentored and I'm rolling around with no AA's used and AppI's and island gear so maybe I've stumbled upon a bug?</p><p>Was the charmed just nerfed for endgame, or did the lesser used old world zones avoid the nerfbat as it's generally a low populated zone that noone cares about?</p>

[shogun007]

I deleted my old coercer , rolled a new one got him to level 29 and so far i am loving it. Now that i have some skill i die way less then before , Wis line and enh charm help as well. Coercers really can do some amazing features solo , and in group. One thing bothers me though , its that coercer talk that we are gimped /unwanted in raids atm is that true? I searched through many forums and many tend to have this opinion. I rolled coercer  to raid. MY SK doesnt have any raid position due too many raids not having more then 2-3 fighters , and its really annoying because crusader were made support type tank class from the start and they cannot be MTs  and their support sucks . Necromancer is an awesome class but he is not a good pick for raid either, only slightly better then Sk. I like all 3 classes pretty equally but i always felt like coercer has an edge when it comes to raiding. I expected it to be as desirable as a bard on raids i am i wrong? I tried bards they are cute with those little damage procs but i dont wanna be an AFk player, and with a bard i always felt like i can go afk and no one will notice  As coercer i add tons and tons to surviability of my grp , not to mention buffs that i provide. But my coercer is lowest of all 3 , and since i can get through many zones blindfolded i cant really stand to see same stuff over and over again. My motivation for it was a desire to raid , plz tell me i am on the right track .

[shogun007]

Can anyone answer plz?

[Aurumn]

I've never raided before, but my guild is trying to get into raiding. (many members have raided individually, but not as a guild). I know that they have a slot set for a coercer and 1 or 2 for an illy. As to whether they'd run with something else (say a dirge instead) I don't know. I'd ask the raid leader of the guild you want to raid with and see what they're looking for.

[branvil]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I deleted my old coercer , rolled a new one got him to level 29 and so far i am loving it. Now that i have some skill i die way less then before , Wis </p></blockquote><p>you deleted your coercer that you were playing when this post was started?  and why?</p><p>As for raiding.  We always run one Coercer when we raid.  The power management and CH, TS as well as respectable damage with good gear and a great player behind the wheel will always assure a spot in our raids.  As desirable as a bard.. no.  But useful none the less.   You need to stop reading negative posts on the forums and play what you want to play.  I happen to love my Coercer despite what people say about them.   Could the class use improvements, most definitely, but the same can be said about a lot of classes.   </p><p>It's not an easy mode class and never will be.  You will die over and over and over again but at the same time I can do things that most classes can't.  </p>

[shogun007]

<cite>Bansaw@Blackburrow wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I deleted my old coercer , rolled a new one got him to level 29 and so far i am loving it. Now that i have some skill i die way less then before , Wis </p></blockquote><p>you deleted your coercer that you were playing when this post was started?  and why?</p><p><span style="color: #ff3300;">I couldnt bear frustration of charm breaking at first lol. I think my biggest mistake was playing him like my necro, where pet dont turn on u , u can safely FD , u can heal pet etc etc.. </span></p><p>As for raiding.  We always run one Coercer when we raid.  The power management and CH, TS as well as respectable damage with good gear and a great player behind the wheel will always assure a spot in our raids.  As desirable as a bard.. no.  But useful none the less.   You need to stop reading negative posts on the forums and play what you want to play.  I happen to love my Coercer despite what people say about them.   Could the class use improvements, most definitely, but the same can be said about a lot of classes.</p><p>  <span style="color: #ff3300;">I cant understand why bards are more desirable for raid then coercers, must be some sort of tradeoff for being a buffbot with mediocre personal damage i guess. Coercers buffs are more unique they have better power regen and they are after all a mezzer class , while bards can only offer their buffs.</span> </p><p>It's not an easy mode class and never will be.  You will die over and over and over again but at the same time I can do things that most classes can't.  </p></blockquote> 

[shogun007]

Its easy to say -" Play what u want to play". I have SK that i got to 70 way before EOF come out , not raid viable !!! I was mad so i left the game, and came back with ROK , rolled Necro got him to 50 ( love evil classes) and after talking to people and checking reqruitment boards i realised that soon he will be another level 70 (80)shelved class , because there so many of them , and raid would rather take melee DPS then necro . I had bad experience already so i didnt want to repeat that and i tried bards and enchanters, bards were fun at first and really booooring later on , needed action so i picked coercer. 

[Gi]

<p>Shogun, one more thing you might want to consider for your coercer: Tinkering.  It's wonderful to have Feign Death in one's bag of tricks -- as I'm sure you know from playing SK and Necro.  The low level tinkered version isn't as reliable but it's certainly better than no FD.  The high level version is pretty good.</p>

[Blumfield]

<cite>shogun007 wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hmm interesting thank you... Just curious what are major changes in terms of aggro and named killing from level 30 to level 50? Maybe i went too far with my opinion , but i used to play classes that get most of their abilities by level 30 so killing named not a problem for them at that level.  So, what changes?</blockquote>Someone said it above.  Longer durations on the control spells you have (daze, stifle, root, stun, mez) and a stun proc debuff.  In some zones you will have an easier time than others, but if you have master charm and a caster pet, you have the ability to solo harder mobs than any other class.

[shogun007]

Yes i did check on mindbend and i started tinkering , however one question remains- How many coercers raid guild needs and how good are chances of getting into one? Cause after little bit of researching i found out that raids only need 1 ( Terrible!!!)  And that they will pick multiple bards instead. (there goes my love for bards -)) Anyway plz share your thoughts <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Oriax]

Well I'm on the Runnyeye server in a casual gamer guild, well since I'm not online constantly nor do I have the time to dedicate to raiding. I get random /tells from people in raid guilds asking if I would be interested in joining, maybe once a week or more. So maybe it just depends on the server and the servers high level Coercer population.

[Cpt.Harlo]

My new solo coercer tactic explained in full:type /lfgxD

[shogun007]

Ok i have a question . My coercer is level 35 at the moment  and i havent found a single group that required me to mezz mobs.  Stuff is easy , grp with 1 good healer or 2 average ones can tear through most content without breaking a sweat. So i am really curious , will i get a chance to mezz at higher levels?   Will the situation change with ROK harder mobs?  If all i wanted was utility i would roll a bard , i rolled enchanter so i can mezz and therefore save grp in a dungeon . Also, how is endgame for coercers now?  Are we more/ less desirable , do we mezz in raid?

[Gi]

<p>My coercer is only 64 atm, so I can't answer the end game part of your question.  But I can address your pre-end game concerns.</p><p>It groups, I mostly <u>stun</u> (both directly and via reactives).  Just like mezzing, the goal of stunning is to prevent some DPS against your group.  Unlike mezzing I tried to stun most/all of the mobs, even the MT's target.  The effect per stun is shorter, but it adds up.  With lots of stunning, I can prevent at least as much damage as the second healer would have healed.  But things go a lot faster if mezzes aren't used for the standard fights.</p><p>( BTW, my perception is that most groups are completely unaware of the damage prevention my stuns do.  Usually the healer gets all the credit.  Oh well. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  )</p><p>For overpulls and nasty adds, I do~ mez.  And annouce it.  When practical, I also let the mez break right before the other mobs die.  Folks at my level are quite unaware of mez... when nothing is moving they assume everything is dead, and relax their attention to loot.   Our control spells can definitely pull a group out of the jaws of defeat... it's just not an every pull thing.</p>

[shogun007]

Thx Gila i was mostly stunning as well then somebody pulled out parser , and i saw myself in the bottom of that list . Since our reactives only work when tank is hit our dps is really low if we stun. I dont wanna break parser , but if my damage is very low and if i dont get a chance to  mezz , what i am to do? I am not bard with passive buffs that increase damage , i want to be useful .

[Aurumn]

<p>Mezz isn't often needed in a full group that doesn't pull more than they can handle. Stuns and dazes to keep the tank from getting smeared and stifles to keep the mages from burning you up are more frequently useful. Since mezz makes the mob immune to AoE damage you'll often get a nasty look from AoE heavy tanks for screwing up their DPS and you'll end up dragging the fight out. I only break it out in a full group if an add jumps in when we don't need another source of pain. Mezz isn't the *only* skill we have in our bag of tricks. </p><p>If you're really itching to mezz, run with a smallish group or get the tank to mass pull and let him know you want to mezz. This will increase the chances that you'll need to mezz to reduce the number of mobs you have to handle at once. In my experience, when the tank is worth his salt and the group doesn't go agroing random mobs you don't really *need* to mezz much. (note: I haven't raided so can't testify to that.)</p><p>If you feel like what you're doing isn't contributing... sit out a fight and drop your buffs and have them parse it. Then join in using all your tricks and buffs and have 'em parse again. Compare the results and see if they don't do more damage when you participate. It's not all in your own DPS, but what you add to the group's performance as a whole. (DPS buff, hate transfer, mana regen, crippling the mobs power/ability to damage your group). It's good to pull your own weight DPS-wise, but if they wanted a pure DPS toon they would've brought a Nuker or a scout. </p>

[shogun007]

Gotcha thx  Mendou -))

[Calm]

<p> Shogun,</p><p>Most raids will probably want only one coercer, true.  When I was raiding, I sometimes felt like I wasn't bringing much to the raid, but if you are in the MT group and speced right with AAs, you are definitely an asset.  On raids, your mezzes and stuns feel worthless, which is a little frustrating.  I think skill has a big part in being a useful coercer, so learn the class well and show off your skills and you should be able to find a guild that can use you.</p><p>Coercers are really desired in high level instances.  I have no problem finding groups for these, and it's a blast.  I just did a zone yesterday where having a mezzer is an absolute necessity, and the group members appreciate what you are doing to help keep the group alive.</p><p>If you like your coercer, as do I, then by all means stick with it.  If you do the little things that a skilled coercer does, then you should be able to find an end-game home.  In know that a guild does not need many coercers, but there doesn't seem to be too many coercers around, which helps.</p><p>Good luck,</p><p>Calmwind</p><p>80 Coercer</p>

[EndlessHurt]

i tired of reading all these complaints. [Removed for Content] re-roll already...

[shogun007]

Some people just cant leave old posts alone lol I was young , post is old - lets move on -)