Stoneskin still exists for scouts!

[Kru]

A named in Karnor's castle used to drop the Ancient Runed Bracers of Diffusion. This item is useable by every class. The developers, seemingly not wanting this, created a new item called "Runed Bracers of Diffusion" useable by only mages, bruisers, and monks. This named now drops the new bracers, only useable by those classes. This is all well and good, except for the fact that now two items exist in this game, and there are still people with the old item, running around using stoneskin proc in pvp, while others can't get the item at all now. So if you were lucky enough to get the item before the boss's drop was changed, you get to have a crazy good pvp proc, and everybody else in the game is completely denied from here on out on receiving that item? It seems to me the original item should have just been changed, instead of the developers introducing an entirely new item and keeping the old item in the game. If you're going to change the drop from the boss, the old item needs to be erased, or the flags changed as well. It's not fair people having the ability to use stoneskin only because they were lucky enough to get the drop before it was changed.<img src="http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/2508/bracersofdiffusionnh1.png" alt="" border="0" />

[Fyreflyte]

The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is extremely small, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Darlion]

<p>I know the intention was well, but, at the very least on pvp servers, the old version is going to be going for positively MASSIVE sums of gold, since the dispersion proc is overpowered completely in pvp (Our Inquisitor tanked 6 guys to 0 power with the old giant trinket from highton as his sole power source; by this I mean they had 0 power and he was still going strong). Any healer worth his salt, especially druids, will want it, tanks as well even though it's cloth the effect is simply that strong it's worth it. It will be a massive raid item for main tanks because, to my knowledge, it's the only way a tank can have the dispersion proc, especially at 10%.</p><p>To be perfectly honest I'm going to log in and try to buy the old version for whatever the cost is as soon as the unscheduled downtime on nagafen is done.</p>

[Sexyfemalei]

he did say the number of ppl that got the bracers was very small, i know i've only heard of a couple ppl getting them and they were mages anyways.

[Kru]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is extremely small, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Thanks for your prompt response, Fyreflyte.You state that it would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to equip this item.  I would agree.  But wouldn't you also agree that it's even sadder that some people have this item, and nobody else in the game will ever be able to attain this item ever again in the future?  If there are only a few people who have this item, what's the big deal about changing which classes can equip it?  Sure there will be a few upset people out there, but don't you think there are MORE people upset about not being able to get this item, than the people who already have it?Upset a few who spent a lot of time farming this item, or upset thousands who will never be able to get it.I'm not sure how familiar you are with EQ2 pvp, but a stoneskin proc is HUGE in pvp, and giving some people access to this item while restricting everybody else from it is not fair at all.You have to pick the lesser of two evils here.  It doesn't seem right.  Implement an extremely powerful PVP item, some people get it, then the item gets completely removed from the drop table and nobody can ever get it again.  Those few lucky people to have gotten this item pre-change now have a HUGE advantage in PVP.  I know it's huge because I'm an experienced PVP'er and I can tell you how powerful it really is.Fyreflyte, please reconsider your decision.  I urge you to change the item to mage only.

[lilmohi]

A lot of items out there are only owned by a couple people and nobody else will ever have a chance at them. They are called mythical. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kru]

This is not a mythical item.The change was also not posted in the patch notes, so I spent half my day farming the item to find out it no longer drops from the named in KC.Shouldn't it be illegal to put uber item A in the game, let a few players loot uber item A, then remove the drop so nobody can ever get it again, all the while keeping the item in the game for those select few players to use until their heart is content?Especially an item that is so powerful and so key in PVP.I would have thought there were specific rules developers had to follow when creating and removing items.  It seems to me that this shouldn't be allowed at all, for any item.  A few players have a huge advantage in PVP because they were lucky enough to loot an item days before it was changed.  And they get to keep the item permanently, to use whenever they want?You can't do that if you insist on not allowing anybody else to get that item.

[Kru]

Kalath brings up a good point too.  This item is AWESOME for a raid tank.What about the Guilds that have a tank lucky enough to have this item?  They now have an unfair advantage over every other Guild out there now?  It's not just about PVP, it's about raiding as well.  This effects a lot of things.What it comes down to is this-The item was nerfed for a reason.  Fyreflyte didn't intend for brigands, swashbucklers, assassins, etc. to be running around with this stoneskin proc, and that's why the item was changed.So if the item was nerfed for a reason, why let some people still HAVE IT?  It was nerfed for a REASON.  Treat everybody equally and make the changes retroactive.When an item is nerfed, a new version of the item should NEVER be created.  The old version needs to be changed, no matter how many people farmed it, no matter how much it cost them, no matter what.

[lilmohi]

Actually unique or semi-unique items add depth to the game. Thats why the mythical gear even exists. Sure this item isn't technically mythical, but the same concept applies. A few people who were in the right place at the right time got some super sweet items that nobody else will have a chance at. I remember in eq1 there was a ranger that had some super overpowered bow. He was a legend (perhaps even an urban legend)..movies were even made of his exploits. That's the stuff legends are made of and player heroes are much more real than NPC's. Yeah it sucks that you spent time trying to get something that was removed from the game. However they had to act quick to fix the item or else even more people get it and the problem becomes unmanageable.

[lilmohi]

<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote>Kalath brings up a good point too.  This item is AWESOME for a raid tank.What about the Guilds that have a tank lucky enough to have this item?  They now have an unfair advantage over every other Guild out there now?  It's not just about PVP, it's about raiding as well.  This effects a lot of things.</blockquote>The rest of the guilds will just have to use monks for raid tanks then. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/ed515dbff23a0ee3241dcc0a601c9ed6.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Kru]

Me being angry about farming an item that was ninja changed is not really the main issue.The issue is you can't nerf an item for a very good reason, and then let some select people in the game continue to use the old un-nerfed version.  It's bad game design.  Changes such as these ALWAYS need to be retroactive.  What's more important, honestly?  Keeping a few players from being upset that the item they farmed for is now useless, or completely neglecting game balance and letting a few select players have a large advantage over other players of the same class?  If Fyreflyte doesn't think scouts should be able to use this item, why are some scouts still allowed to use it?

[Couching]

Can anyone confirm if it is on pvp server only? thank you.

[TheLastB]

<p>maybe you feel that the time/effort spent by the few justifies them having access to a unique item in the game (something that you havent really done in the past) but the item is extremely good for any class that could use it...in fact if you put 2warlock and a dirge in the group couldnt that then be 20% chance - 20% chance on a scout or a tank in a raid environment is totally out of whack - even more so if its qeynos with a templar also in same group? in pvp this would be totally dominating put on a reactive taunting tank (guard/zerk).</p><p>please reconsider - if so few of the old items were gotten before the 'adjustment' why such a big problem with the blanket change....worst case scenario at least make it no trade so the ppl that do have the item cant sell it for thousands of plat and destroy an already obliterated market.</p><p>now isnt the time to put your head in the sand...........by not implementing a blanket change to an easilly attained item you are setting a precedent for future items.</p>

[Somatic]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is extremely small, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>It sounds to me like you have a PVP character that has this item.The item is totally broken for PvP.  Also as stated above totally broken for PVE.This item is:A) The best PVP gear in game.  -- all the fools farming tokens off bots won't ever get the best pvp item off the PVP merchant, nope only a few people who farmed this will have it.  All the fools killing epic content on PVP servers won't ever get the best pvp item (unless maybe T3 raid mobs have items similar) -- nope only a few people who farmed this item will have it.B) The best PVE raid gear in game -- A legendary item that dropped for a few weeks has become the BEST forarm slot in game probally for the rest of the games lifetime = silly.Again, maybe i'm wrong and maybe endgame T3 items will beat this proc.... I highly doubt it.Solution:Let them keep the item but add this:A) Decerase proc chance in PVP to 1 percent for non-mages.B) Make the proc not work when a Epic monster is hitting you.Leaving this item in game like this was [Removed for Content], it means any tank who has this assuming they are a good tank will always be much much better than a equally good tank.  In PVP it's even better - any class thathas it has a huge advantage now.  Why allowing 40-60 people who farmed this item to have such a huge power shift is silly.  The earring was nerfed -- i never got to pick a new quest item -- i moved on.  These people can move on too.

[Captain Apple Darkberry]

If so few people have the item, then changing it (even if it means they cannot use it anymore) seems to be the right thing to do.The item is obscenely overpowered in PvP, and even in PvE.Please Devs, do what is right, and leaving a few people with a grossly overpowered item simply because they farmed it before the nerf is not right.This seems to go against so many previous instances where items needed to be nerfed.  No care was given before to the people that had already acquired such items...   ...why now?

[Vonotar]

<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote>The item was nerfed for a reason.  Fyreflyte didn't intend for brigands, swashbucklers, assassins, etc. to be running around with this stoneskin proc, and that's why the item was changed.</blockquote>Which begs the question... why didn't Fyreflyte simply add a tag of "If not a scout" to the stoneskin proc and then add a second replacement proc (of a different/lesser/more acceptable nature) with the tag "if a scout".  Therefore editing the item rather than creating a new item.

[Jenesi]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is extremely small, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Hehe wow, just wow. I know this is not that related but you justifie leaving the old items in game and as is on how much time and money players spent on getting this item. Yet you all dont seem to give a crap about how much time and money players spent on getting faction items that they could use to help lvl there guild and what not. Makes sense <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I also belive there was a quest item that got changed so that only certian classes could use them now, i dont see anyone who had the original running around with an unchanged one!

[Jehannum]

<p>Fireflyte:  Do you have any idea how much time and effort (and faction) I spent, when KoS came out, killing Hooluks <b>specifically</b> in order to be non-KOS to the Vultaks?  And yet, when the change came through which made everyone KOS to them, regardless of faction efforts, I was granted no special exemption.  Some few having worked hard to achieve something has never in the past been a justification for allowing them to retain an item or achievement which impairs game balance to such a degree.  Don't let it start now.</p><p>EQ1 had a history of leaving items as is and replacing them with their nerfed counterparts; EQ2 does not, or at least until now <i>did</i> not.  I've seen several retroactive item tunings in EQ2; there's no reason to treat this one any differently.  Unattune any attuned copies of the original item, and re-write it as necessary to prevent exploits, but whether in PvE or PvP this item's mere existence will cause more trouble than its elimination would create.</p>

[Kru]

Fyrefylte,It's rare that you see most people agree in the forums.  Will you please reconsider your decision?

[Bloodfa]

Everyone or none.  Changing it for some is biased, plain & simple.  Sorry, but there's really no grey area about it.  Leaving it in "as-is" for those that have it would be akin to "Okay, all of you who had evac back before we nerfed it to not function in combat can now evac at-will, as pre-nerf.  Anybody who rolled a scout, mage or warden after that, you get the newer non-combat evac."  Uneven-handedness is not something that should be bandied about by a Dev.

[Siphar]

<cite>Bloodfang@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Everyone or none.  Changing it for some is biased, plain & simple.  Sorry, but there's really no grey area about it.  Leaving it in "as-is" for those that have it would be akin to "Okay, all of you who had evac back before we nerfed it to not function in combat can now evac at-will, as pre-nerf.  Anybody who rolled a scout, mage or warden after that, you get the newer non-combat evac."  Uneven-handedness is not something that should be bandied about by a Dev.</blockquote><p>I have to agree here 100% and disagree 100% with firefly.</p><p>This item is very unbalanced for PvP in its old state for obvious reasons. It is also unbalanced for PvE. Regardless of the amount of time you have put into attaining this item, it should <b>never</b> be at the expense of others (unfair enemy PvP fights or unfair PvE encounters respectively)..</p>

[Siphar]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is extremely small, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Let me illustrate an example for you as an Assassin fighting someone else with this who hits very fast..</p><p>It says what 10% proc? therefore it will absorb a significant proportion of my damage in PvP combat... putting me at a significant disadvantage.</p><p>I would not have any right to complain if this item was freely available, but its not. No matter how much tim eI invest I will never see it for my character (even if its double what current people have spent farming it).</p><p>That is why it is biased to keep the old item in the game.</p><p>Besides, the giant trinket earring was nerf'd and replaced when that item was updated. I know for a fact only mages can use it now and it was changed from a proc rate of 10% to 3%. WHy can't the same procedure to taken for this item (for obvious resons).</p>

[Timmelle]

i have the earing it didi hardly do [I cannot control my vocabulary] for me that i couldnt do for myself

[Kru]

It's completely unsurprising to see someone who has the earring, not want it to be nerfed or removed from the game.

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is extremely small, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>It's<u> really, really worrying</u> that someone in charge of itemisation can't see the value of a 10% stoneskin proc on a raid MT.</p><p>One in ten hits negated is a lot of damage when the mob is hitting for 5000+. When negating the damage is also increasing the power of the MT group, that's even more ludicrous.</p><p>You must appreciate the original version is currently the best forearm slot bar none for a raid tank. And not by a small margin. 10% stoneskin is absolutely huge against epic mobs, and the mitigation loss is trivial.</p><p>I can understand how to someone removed from the actual combat mechanics and raiding in general, the fact these forearms are cloth might appear to balance their usefulness to a tank. But this is absolutely not the case. In the same way the stoneskin-proccing leather sandals from avatars were highly coveted by plate tanks, as long as the mitigation curve makes high mitigation largely worthless, items like these forearms are the best defensive items in-game.</p><p>This needs fixing somehow. And you've really dug yourself a hole, since it would appear you can't easily force items to be unequipped and they remain proccing even after you change the class requirements.</p><p>Just to throw some numbers out there, for a raid tank with these forearms, the legs and forest giant trinket, that's 16% stoneskin. Since stoneskin completely negates a hit, it can be compared to uncontested avoidance. Throw in adorns (~7% uncontested) and food (~5% unconstested) for 28%. A good tower shield is 20%; if it's the fabled one with 5% block chance coupled with soulfire gladius that's 30% so we're up to 58%. Add templar and dirge buffs, each a ~12% stoneskin proc, and that's 82%. If you happen to have the sandals from avatars, then you're up to 90%.</p><p>That's a <b><i>90% chance of negating any hit</i></b>. I even had to re-read what I've just typed because it sounded so crazy, but the numbers add up. And this is before you even consider defense and parry skill. These seemingly innocuous Dispersion items have game-breaking consequences in the long term.</p>

[TheLastB]

WTB a correction to this piece of loot...have already heard of a certain exile guild using this item on their main tank in both pve and pvp.........

[Siphar]

Please re-consider and <span style="font-size: small;"><u><b>balance</b></u></span> this item ~Thanks~

[Dimgl]

<span style="color: #00cc99;">The item needs to either be restored or removed.Items should only be obtainable once if they are fluff or mythical. Holiday items and server firsts.</span>

[sarahtotty2]

With the impending changes regarding loot being nerfed, and all of which will be nerfed retrospectively, how is this item any different.  I have gone through the work of getting anaphylaxis, i was lucky enough to get a fabled shield drop in crypt of agony... yet from what i hear the items are being lowered including everyone that already has it.  If it happens to all these items, then it must happen to this one as well.  Sure the few people with the item will be unhappy but you cannot have 1 rule for this item and a whole new rule to the others

[de lori]

<p>In the tuning Treasured and Anaphylaxsis Fyreflyte wrote:</p><p>I've created lesser versions of all of these effects and attached them to all Treasured gear. None of the stats on the gear itself has been touched, only the power of the effects, which has been lowered by about 1/3 in most cases. <span style="color: #cc0066;">I know this will be upsetting to many of you who have worked hard to acquire the pieces you have, and don't like seeing them balanced in this manner.</span></p><p>In this Thread Fyreflty wrote:</p><p><span style="color: #cc0066;">The reason I chose to add a new item is because many players had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item.</span></p><p>can I lend you a leg to stand on?</p>

[de lori]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because <span style="color: #cc0000;">MANY PLAYERS</span> had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is <span style="color: #cc0000;">EXTREMELY SMALL</span>, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>I just want to make sure im clear on this.......The consolation you offer...is that your reason for adding a new item and not removing the old one is not true?

[Kru]

Fyreflyte is a reasonable person, I think when he has time to re-address this issue, he might re-consider his decision.  It's important to stay consistent in itemization.

[Gungo]

So i been campign the drolvarg foreman to get this bracer and now it is no longer useable by brawlers when did this nerf occur again.

[Fyreflyte]

<cite>de lorian wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote>The reason I chose to add a new item is because <span style="color: #cc0000;">MANY PLAYERS</span> had already spent huge amounts of time and cash to acquire this item. It would be extremely sad if they were suddenly no longer able to to equip it. It's unfortunate that some will have access to this item when the rest of you won't, and I do wish I'd caught this error before the item went into the game.The consolation is that the number of players who have the old version is <span style="color: #cc0000;">EXTREMELY SMALL</span>, and you're unlikely to see them around. The effect is defensive in nature also, so at least nobody will be running around 1-shotting anyone with it <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />" width="15" height="15"></blockquote>I just want to make sure im clear on this.......The consolation you offer...is that your reason for adding a new item and not removing the old one is not true?</blockquote><p>Everything is relative. Many of something can still be a small number, relative to the total. In this case, the number of players who would have lost hard work/plat was large enough to warrant leaving the old version of the item in. That same number is also very small, relative to the size of the game. A couple of drops per server in most cases, not enough to unbalance gameplay.</p><p>Thus far, all I've heard on this issue is speculation. The only thing that would cause me to readdress it at this point would be some solid evidence that it's causing a substantial game imbalance and ruining the play experience of a large number of players.</p>

[Gravewolf]

Seems fine to me.  There's precedent from EQ1 certainly.  Pre-nerf Circlet of Shadows anyone?  All it does is create a very rare item that a few people were lucky enough to get.  Sounds like a whole pile of jealousy here to me, and in a month nobody is even going to remember this nonsense.And for the record, before you bring it up, I don't have the item, nor had I even heard about it before this thread.

[L]

<cite>Kruhl wrote:</cite><blockquote>Fyreflyte is a reasonable person, I think when he has time to re-address this issue, he might re-consider his decision.  It's important to stay consistent in itemization.</blockquote>I join in taking the mature approach and also STRONGLY recommend that there should be no legacy/God Powers/Special Deal/got-it-before-it-was-nerfed-haha-to-the-rest-of-you-chumps-that-missed-the-boat-on-this items on the PVP servers.  This gives special powers to the very people in PVP who least need them.  Please nerf this item completely and make it work one way for all users.  If you are concerned about taking the item away from certain players by restricting the classes that can use it, I'd suggest modifying the effect to be one that doesn't imbalance PVP.Thank you

[L]

<cite>Fyreflyte wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><p>Thus far, all I've heard on this issue is speculation. The only thing that would cause me to readdress it at this point would be some solid evidence that it's causing a substantial game imbalance and ruining the play experience of a large number of players.</p></blockquote>In my opinion, giving just one player a special god like ability (which this does, because it can completely absorb my harm touch) in PVP is imbalancing to the entire server, because then that one person can run around as Super Ratonga, and you just gave him an Easy Button at the expense of all the other players he is running around ganking.  This one item on the wrong class now can make the difference between me winning and losing an encounter, and therefore trivializes every other piece of gear, spell and c/a upgrade, achievement ability, and skill I have.Please nerf it, change the effect to something that can't make the difference between winning and losing when used by the wrong class.

[Mr. Dawki]

<p>1) Should have been nipped in the bud during that whole thing you call beta.</p><p>10% stoneskin!? That should have screamed overpowered as you were creating the stupid thing.</p>

[Sss'thasine'ss]

<p>I dont have high levels, I dont play on pvp-server and I dont see many end-game equipment.</p><p>But I have been playing this game for quite some time.</p><p>I would like to see more equipment with wider variety of effects & abilities, not just crits and bonuses.</p><p>I also like to see these equipment made available at low level.</p><p>While they should be made rare and hard to get, everyone should a chance (be it how small) to get it.</p><p>I hope to see more more powerful unique equipment for all levels. I will like this game more.</p><p>Yep, I'm thinking in pve enviroment. How to solve the pvp issue? well, I dont know.</p><p>Thanks for reading.</p><p>(Sorry for my bad english)</p>

[Torrin]

Item Development 101:When an Item currently introduced into the game, and has gone Live, requires a change to the way it interacts within the game environment., The Item in question should be fixed / replaced including all copies of the item currently in distribution. In other words. If It required a fix to the way it worked, then all versions of that item should be fixed.  If the fix is changing an item on live to a new item, then the changed item should be replaced for every instance that it exists in the game. Never Never EVER replace an item requiring a fix with a new version / item while leaving the old unfixed item in the game. Dependent upon the code-work involved in EQ2, it would have been easier in the first place to replace the broken item universally instead of creating a new item and leaving the old one in.  Which brings to light questions of why was it purposely left in?To say it's not a game-breaking mechanic is wrong, at least from a PvP point of view.  Back before Dispersion was fixed on most all the items, I was in a pvp group where everyone was wearing the Forest Giant's Trinket.  Nobody stood a chance against us.  Templar + Paladin + Dirge + 3 dps and nobody went below 70% health in our group in any fight.  Templar was solo healing and never went below 90% power.  We knew right then something was seriously wrong.  Sure enough within days the earrings were "fixed".  And now an item just like them has been found again, and a Dev refuses to fix them in the same manner.  Let me ask this..  Why are there changes being made to anything remotely dealing with PvP, when the PvP TEST server has and still is Down?  A lot of testing going on there I see.

[erimus]

<p>The biggest thorn in the side I am seeing here is the lack of consistency.  I can think of tons of equipment/items that have been nerfed over the course of EQ2.  This is the only Item I can think of, where they left the pre-nerfed item in the game (Im not saying that arent any others, I just cant think of any atm)  </p><p>I dont play PVP, I dont have this item, I dont care about it being overpowered, and I dont care that only a few people are going to be able to have it and most will not.  What does bother me though, is that if its good enough for one item, it needs to be good enough for all items.   Why is this item so special that they are allowing those that already won it to keep the pre-nerfed version?  Why is it not the same for....oh lets say the pocket golem?  Why cant the people that worked hard and spent time to get that be able to keep the version that actually does something, rather than just a fluff item?</p><p>Again, I think everyone here has made very valid points for this item being overpowered and what not.  I dont disagree with anyone that thinks that.  I just think its more important to keep it consistent.  </p><p>If your going to keep prenerfed items in the game, it needs to be handled the same way for all items.   On the other hand if your going to nerf an item and all existing copies of that item,   Please do it for every different item you nerf</p>

[Jardon]

Cobalt Armor. The old armor was left in the game when the changes went live, and the new crated armor (with the case of the name changed) was added to the game.

[Naughtesn]

<cite>Jardor@Antonia Bayle wrote:</cite><blockquote>Cobalt Armor. The old armor was left in the game when the changes went live, and the new crated armor (with the case of the name changed) was added to the game.</blockquote>IIRC, It wasn't just cobalt - it was nearly every MC item - there was an Old Version and a new version.

[sprogn]

<p>I did the quest on my conjurer to get the stoneskin bracer from the highton lines.  When I saw how good it was, I did the same quest on my Berserker to get it.</p><p>Two days later it was patched, nerfed and is now unusuable.</p><p>Either revert them all back, or change them all.  Just allowing your "select few" (probably your own guildies on your play server) to keep their uber items is stupid and not what I've come to expect over 6+ years of playing EQ1/EQ2.</p><p>Listen to your playerbase and fix the item please.  10% stoneskin is like giving a free "pocket templar/dirge" to every class that has this thing.</p>

[Signal9]

<cite>sprognak wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I did the quest on my conjurer to get the stoneskin bracer from the highton lines.  When I saw how good it was, I did the same quest on my Berserker to get it.</p><p>Two days later it was patched, nerfed and is now unusuable.</p><p>Either revert them all back, or change them all.  Just allowing your "select few" <span style="color: #ff0000;">(probably your own guildies on your play server)</span> to keep their uber items is stupid and not what I've come to expect over 6+ years of playing EQ1/EQ2.</p><p>Listen to your playerbase and fix the item please.  10% stoneskin is like giving a free "pocket templar/dirge" to every class that has this thing.</p></blockquote><p>And the highlighted portion is EXACTLY why these changes need to be made consistently.</p><p>Given the lack of communication in many areas between the Dev's and the player base, even the illusion of impropriety is bad.  Very bad.</p>

[Kriddle Kraddle]

<p>From what I have read of this thread I would have to agree with a lot of the player base in that all items should be changed or none should be changed. Yes I do know that EQ1 would do this on many items when nerfed but as said a thousand times this is not EQ1. This is a new game with all new mechanics not to mention next generation which should mean learn from the past. I can remember items in the past that were nerfed or changed making some classes not able to use them or changing them so that the class that looted it no longer would use it. I know virtues guard from Protectors Realm is a similar item. Many guilds transmuted this item because a round shield on a fighter class is basicly worthless then after the change a lot wanted one but it is pretty rare.</p><p>One of the major points for this type of change was people put in a lot of time and plat to obtain them. I can think of at least a few items where people put in countless hours or raiding, weeks between spawns(contested or instance timers), and DKP (which in many ways is greater than plat value to some) to obtain an item that was changed or nerfed soon after they got them. These people didnt get to keep those same stats or effects on the item and it was a lesser effect and even to a fewer amount of players.</p><p>To sum this up consistancy is what I am looking for here. Either keep old items in the game the way they were or change all items dont bounce back and forth because you never know what you might get. Also at least with consistancy you cant really have upset players. The reason they cannot be too upset is because the ones that did get the item early will have the super stats for a short time but once changed the other players cant be too upset because they are equal to whoever got them early.</p>

[Bramwe]

So, where does the line get drawn if they completely remove this item?  I have a similar item that got grandfathered and am glad they do this.  If they removed my ability to equip this item would they refund my 15-20 plat I spent on it and the item I replaced?  If they do refund the money do they take it away from the person who sold the item and punish them for it?  What if that person bought it for extremely cheap to resell it?  Do they then punish the original person who sold it by taking away their money?  Think about if you spent that much money on an item only to have it taken away.  You would all be [Removed for Content] off.  You wouldn't simply say "Oh well, that's fair I guess."   I say good job SOE.

[Gungo]

<p>This entire post is dumb what about all the avatar loot which is way way more overpowered then this item that is no longer obtainable. What about all the people who got loot from haragur in bonemire which no longer dropped in game. </p>