RoK is a mistake

[Krokous]

id like to share my opinion with you:1) i have nothing agaisnt solo quests, i loved them in KoS as nice source of AA and XP when i was locked in instances or couldnt get group, but what is happening in RoK its madness, i did 70 quests in Kylong plains, now moved to Fens and i tell you im completely sick of solo ANNOYING quests all the same go there kill 5 those OVER AND OVER.  its ridiculous but why? because:2) in KoS you had great (and pretty easy = fun) zones like SoS, PoA, and various instances where you could get NICE xp and as well ALOT OF HEROIC QUESTS that gave wonderfull AA/XP, you could  get group there NO PROBLEM, you could get masters there. zone like SoS had alot of quests/named so you could get masters a well = motivation!!!   where is my motivation to do millions of really annoying solo quests?3) with such design (zillions of solo stuff) you broke completely group aspect,  no way i can get group going to places like Karnors ([Removed for Content] miserable zone without ANY MOTIVATION again to crawl through it- but still thats the point) because everyone is grinding those solo quests-conclusion: you really closed mouths of those notoric solo questers but you completely ruined MMO game, you made it as lets say "Diablo3"  NO THANKS

[Jrral]

Well, 75% or more of the player-base are casual players. They can get maybe one or two friends together, but not a full group like you'd need for the heroic content you refer to. They don't really want the hassle of pick-up groups (and I don't blame them, I've been in PUGs and overall I'd rather stick with people I know than deal with the circus potential), and they can't devote more than a couple-three hours a day max (and that not every day) to the game. Those people hated KoS because they simply couldn't run half the content there. With RoK they're in heaven, they can duo or trio and have a ball all the way to 80. No, it's not so hot for you. Welcome to what <i>they've</i> been dealing with for the last 70 levels.Also, have you managed to put 2 and 2 together and found the reason <i>why</i> SOE steers you towards those quests that give faction with various groups?

[Dasein]

RoK from about 70-75 is mostly solo, but from 75-80, when you can start really doing the group zones and instances, the loot is worth it. Pretty soon, for a lot of people, XP will become a moot point as they reach max level, thus making things like interesting zone design and worthwhile loot much more important than raw XP.

[Lauraliane]

Those solo/small quests are perfect to reach level 80 smoothly, raise your factions, learn the language, explore the maps and localise the heroic instances.You also take the heroics quests that goes with those instances, then, once level 80 and "decently" geared with all that stuff you get from "solo" quests, even if you are full fabled you ll find a few upgrade here and there, especially if you are a caster. Then you can go have fun inside the heroic instances, and get even better rewards, cause belive me, there are a LOT of good rewards there.

[ReturnOfMadness]

i have to agree with the above posters even tho i dont like it, the solo quests were the way to go and when ya progress grouping becomes more important especially for certain quest lines, like the frogline in kunzar jungle (requires ya to go multiple times into sebilis)and the plunder quest line (requires ya to go into the city of mist which can be quite nasty). just stick with it for the first few levels and groups will start to get more important very fast. And when ya reach cap it doesnt matter at all anymore anyway, ya just want the faction (which ya prolly grinded the levels before that) and loot (which mostly comes from instances, or the quests related to those instances best example of that is the anaphylaxis quest)

[Eyesadi]

I must add, just a marvelous expansion!  It really will play to all player types.  Just enjoy it and Thank SOE!

[Radom101]

<p>If you ever plan on raiding in RoK and want some of the class set type fable gear then you will need to do quests to get your faction up so you can actually have the gear made.  Raid mobs drop patterns and trash mobs drop stones which you need to turn in in JW dock area to get the armor made.  Unless you have 50k faction the npc will not let you do that.  Personally I like RoK its a change for the better in my view (yes I did all the quests and I'm 80) from boring xp grinding.  I dont mind the grind but thru quests I went and have seen all zones rather than sit in one or two spots and pull same type of mobs over and over. </p>

[Krokous]

also this concept is so bad on pvp server... all this solo stuff makes me easy target for token farmers (exploiters who were lvl 80 after 3 days), getting  killed 100 times/day isnt fun

[Naglfar]

<p>That's why this expansion si not too crap on pvp server during the 70/75 leveling part; you have to group to do your quests to avoid being killed every minute.</p><p>But imo too much solo is as mindless as pure xp grind. No difficulty at all, every single player will be full legendary without doing anthing more than killin random 5 mobs after random 5 mobs. Gratz on risk vs reward, really. Ho wait, you can have better legendary with the awesome challenge of killing solo + named ! Kinda sad...</p><p>Hopefully RoK gets better once you're starting instance/dongeons & raids.</p>

[KBern]

<cite>Naglfar@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That's why this expansion si not too crap on pvp server during the 70/75 leveling part; you have to group to do your quests to avoid being killed every minute.</p><p>But imo too much solo is as mindless as pure xp grind. No difficulty at all, every single player will be full legendary without doing anthing more than killin random 5 mobs after random 5 mobs. Gratz on risk vs reward, really. Ho wait, you can have better legendary with the awesome challenge of killing solo + named ! Kinda sad...</p><p>Hopefully RoK gets better once you're starting instance/dongeons & raids.</p></blockquote><p>There have been some incredible fabled and legandary gear coming out of the instances, and some of the instances are not cake for the average geared player.</p><p>The raid gear will probably blow away most of the quested crap people are seeing now.</p>

[Siclone]

Grouping is harder now, cause everyone is soloing true.But, I think it is just a matter of time, when everyone is done with the solo quests and want to start grouping again so just hang in there

[liveja]

I'm having a grand time in the expansion. Sure do hate it for those who aren't.

[Killerbee3000]

<p>rok a mistake? i think that would be a bit too harsh. </p><p>however, i do think karmors castle is in need of some love.</p>

[Jeger_Wulf]

It's too harsh to say RoK is a mistake. However, I do agree that a reason to group while leveling would be nice. Oh well, it will get a little better once some toons hit 80.

[KBern]

<p>Well a reason to group when even doing solo quests is to make the kills go faster, and to reduce the boredom of some quest lines.</p><p>The reason to group would also be to get a break from solo questing and run some instances or explore some dungeons.</p>

[Killerbee3000]

<cite>Saurakk@Guk wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Well a reason to group when even doing solo quests is to make the kills go faster, and to reduce the boredom of some quest lines.</p></blockquote>if just looted quest updates and ground spawns that only one person in group can get at once woudnt actively discourage grouping while soing solo quests...

[KBern]

<p>There are very few of those quests that slow down a group that are more than made up for by the time saved with mass group killing of X number of mobs.</p>

[Laiina]

<cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>id like to share my opinion with you:1) i have nothing agaisnt solo quests, i loved them in KoS as nice source of AA and XP when i was locked in instances or couldnt get group, but what is happening in RoK its madness, i did 70 quests in Kylong plains, now moved to Fens and i tell you im completely sick of solo ANNOYING quests all the same go there kill 5 those OVER AND OVER.  its ridiculous but why? because:2) in KoS you had great (and pretty easy = fun) zones like SoS, PoA, and various instances where you could get NICE xp and as well ALOT OF HEROIC QUESTS that gave wonderfull AA/XP, you could  get group there NO PROBLEM, you could get masters there. zone like SoS had alot of quests/named so you could get masters a well = motivation!!!   where is my motivation to do millions of really annoying solo quests?3) with such design (zillions of solo stuff) you broke completely group aspect,  no way i can get group going to places like Karnors ([I cannot control my vocabulary] miserable zone without ANY MOTIVATION again to crawl through it- but still thats the point) because everyone is grinding those solo quests</blockquote><p>I pretty much agree with this. I also have nothing against solo - in fact I solo most of the time. But what really bothers me about ROK is that there is almost no incentive at all to group until you get to 80.</p><p>I think SOE went a bit too far here with the solo-only aspects.</p>

[Karlen]

As someone who mostly solos, I have very much been enjoying this expansion.  I've actually grouped more than I usually do lately through joining up with people working on quests in the same area as me.

[Krokous]

im now just few xp points from lvl 73 and i tell you that im getting silly 2-3-4xp per quest, it becomes really annying havindg to gring quests its more dumb than grinding some instance with a chance o getting master

[TheSpin]

<cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>im now just few xp points from lvl 73 and i tell you that im getting silly 2-3-4xp per quest, it becomes really annying havindg to gring quests its more dumb than grinding some instance with a chance o getting master</blockquote><p>Everyone wants content for 'grinding' but the truth is that if that's all you want from your content then they could just put you in a box and send glowy balls at you to kill for 10 levels.</p><p>The honest truth is that the non level 80 content wasn't made for grinders it was made for people who actually care about the content.  Once all the 'grinders' get up to 80 they'll have non grinding things to do.  Why should a large amount of time be invested for players who want to burn through it in a week when their time could be invested on things that MORE players are going to be enjoying for months.</p>

[XAvengerX]

<p>The only mistake about this expansion is the lack of heroic content (whether they be instances or dungeons) for levels 70 - 75. Karnors Castle isnt really a "starter" dungeon I would consider it more mid-expansion content.</p><p>The problem you have right now is there is no where for people who have just arrived in Kunark to dungeon explore, whereas all previously launched expansions had a zone where you could immediately hit on launch day like Sanctum of the Scaleborn, or Living Tombs.</p><p>Its seems to be quest, quest, quest if you want to level in Kunark and I am just kinda disappointed at the lack of choice between lvls 70 and 75 in terms of how you can progress.</p><p>No one is arguing with the content and its quality, they are arguing about the fact that there is little choice for Heroic progression in Kunark until you are 75+.</p>

[Pyra Shineflame]

<p>If anything complain that taking the epic weapons (and all of the heroic and epic quests WITH them) were a mistake. It boggles the mind that people forget about this and blame the Kunark expansion as a whole for not having enough grouping options. </p><p>There was supposed to be enough but it ended up being rolled back. Be patient.</p>

[zaneluke]

Why in heck would you want to make every expansion the same? That is just plain silly.DOF,KOS,EOF and ROK all offer a different gaming experience and are fun in their own little ways. Tons of solo quests, love it. lots of end game content, love it. AA expansion, love it.Casual..... folsk most people who play are casual. You need to cater to them or your going to be stuck gaming with the same group of schmucks forever.

[Vifarc]

How do you take those quests? My journal can't have more than 100. My journal is bugged?

[England]

The only way to appease or guarantee those wanting to group not belonging to large guilds, is by making the game group oriented, like FFIX, and FORCE those that don't want to (probably the great majority) to have to do it. That makes no sense today, unlike in the past. I believe most people do not want to be ~forced~ to group. One type gains and the other looses.Online companies have found out over the last 10 years, the more casual and solo-friendly the game, the more appealing the game is to a wider audience (see Blizzard). Considering MMORPGs take a fortune to make, the past hard-core 'niche' games are a thing of the past. Grouping forces one to 'deal' with the much-too-common obnoxious behavior of others, which IS very prevalent in our society, especially among online gamers. I think this is at the very core of the design decisions, and people's choice.So today's games lean more toward 'freedom of association'. I personally love playing with a few friends only. If you want the ability to group easier, join a large guild, but for many taking chances with PUG's is way too chancy even in games with relatively 'mature' base. And take way too long to form in the first place.So today's reality in design is a direct result of today's reality of human behavior.

[Phlix]

I love RoK and I love solo quests.   Whenever I login I can make great progress and I feel that my time was well spent.  Eventually players will want better gear and masters and they will explore the dungeons with groups.  

[bubspeed 2]

<p>At first I was slightly irritated by the lack of herioc content.  However, now my only complaint is that I don't have any time to play the game since RL has me going in a ton of directions...</p><p>The amount of quests is a little ridiculous.  They are all tied to faction in different zones which makes progression  linear.  Get 50,000 Faction with Teren's Grasp (or whatever) and then move onto Fens, and then Kunzar jungle, etc...  You can't really skip areas since you will need to use their services (i.e. broker, bank,etc) so everyone needs to complete these quests.  </p>

[Karlen]

<span class="postbody">>>>They are all tied to faction in different zones which makes progression  linear.  Get 50,000 Faction with Teren's Grasp (or whatever) and then move onto Fens, and then Kunzar jungle, etc...  <b>You can't really skip areas</b> since you will need to use their services (i.e. broker, bank,etc) so everyone needs to complete these quests. <<<I got to around 25,000 faction with Terens Grasp and then skipped the rest of the quest.  Can't say I have a use for the services there as I can use the broker/bank back in Qeynos.  I head back to town every few days to unload and restock.  It didn't take me very long to get to 25,000 faction.I'm in the Fens now with 50,000 rillis faction and a book full of quests.  The main reason I haven't moved onto the next zone is that I am still getting plenty of gear upgrades from quests and I am only 72 -- the Jungle looks like it might be easier in another level or two.  I haven't used any Rillis services.</span>

[Jovie]

<p>I am loving the expansion so far. I have 24 characters spanning three accounts, RoK active on all of them. Funny, i only have two 70+ characters and it doesn't make me feel like i wasted money. </p><p>On suggestions to make the expac better, i would recommend to sony to A)put more shared dungeons in frmo 70-80. (kurns, kaesora as examples) and B)offer more heroic quests for players to choose.</p>

[Z-m]

<cite>TheSpin wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Krokous wrote:</cite><blockquote>im now just few xp points from lvl 73 and i tell you that im getting silly 2-3-4xp per quest, it becomes really annying havindg to gring quests its more dumb than grinding some instance with a chance o getting master</blockquote><p>Everyone wants content for 'grinding' but the truth is that if that's all you want from your content then they could just put you in a box and send glowy balls at you to kill for 10 levels.</p><p>The honest truth is that the non level 80 content wasn't made for grinders it was made for people who actually care about the content.  Once all the 'grinders' get up to 80 they'll have non grinding things to do.  Why should a large amount of time be invested for players who want to burn through it in a week when their time could be invested on things that MORE players are going to be enjoying for months.</p></blockquote>RoK IS grinding just in the form of maddening inane, rinse/repeat solo quests. I also agree with the op but not just because of the HUGE amount of solo quests. Which BTW have rewards that are 75-80% of the time is geared for casters and healers. There is also the lack of heroic level content that can be done by small groups or the 70-75 crowd. But the main reason that RoK has killed grouping to a great extent even for small groups is because the lack of XP earned from mobs even heroic ones. There is no incentive for ppl to help out others on quests they've already finished. Why should they? There's no XP or good loot and it's much better and easier to just move on to their next solo quest. So if your a class that doesn't solo well and you don't happen to be lucky enuff to find a player or two thats doing the same progression of quests you are, your SOOL. Even my guildies to a certain extent are caught up in this and while they don't mind helping out if the situation calls for it they're eager to move on back to their solo quests so the can make XP to level and I can't blame them for that. It takes like killing 12-15 of a regular mob to get even 1%. Even the named give crap XP both solo and heroic. I don't need to play an MMO to play alone and there are much better games that aren't MMO's for that kind of play. Maybe a better anagram would be to call it an MSO. Massive Solo-players Online.

[Jrral]

<cite>Tenmou@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>But the main reason that RoK has killed grouping to a great extent even for small groups is because the lack of XP earned from mobs even heroic ones. There is no incentive for ppl to help out others on quests they've already finished. Why should they? There's no XP or good loot and it's much better and easier to just move on to their next solo quest.</blockquote>Why should I help people with quests I've already completed? Simple: I'll be wanting their help on other things. Why should they help me if I'm not willing to help them? So it's in my interest to help them. The XP may not be good, but then I'm getting plenty off my quests so it's not a problem (I'm well into 77 and I'm barely into the Kunzar Jungle quests, I'll be at 80 by the time I'm done and there's still all of Jarsath Wastes to go to max out my AAs). And if only one or two people in the group are actually on the quests, it makes it a lot faster since there's less splitting of one-person updates and waiting for respawns. As far as loot, I've got nice mastercrafted to wear and I'm not expecting to see any treasured loot better than it so until I hit the group instances where I can get legendary I'm not too worried about loot. And when I do hit group instances I'm going to be needing friends along, see previous about wanting their help.