Pact of the Cheetah and PvP...

[Kay]

I know this is a little after the fact - but i would like to bring up the subject again.  I play a fury who used to be able to pact in pvp combat.  it was very useful in more ways than one.   for starters - it was a great escape from a group beating down on me.  now, if i cast pact while they are casting on me, even if i havent casted anything back, i get put into "pvp combat" and in turn run <i>slower </i>than i was originally running.also, if i am fighting a group and my cures are down (remember 10 sec recast on cures - /wrists!) and i get rooted, i would be able to cast pact to dispell the root effects on me - but noooo - if i click pact - i get a message about not being able to use the spell<i> period</i> in pvp combat.  i mean alot of other classes have evac where they can just click a button and be gone - safe - and not dead to outnumbered odds.  me on the other hand i just have to cross my fingers and hope my sow and seasoned predator will see me thru.  plus - even if a spell is adjusted for pvp combat - it shouldnt be completely removed from it.  also - it was a very useful aid in kiting.when soloing - i find i root/snare/nuke most battles, unless it's an easier type where i can afford to also melee the mobs down. kiting around mobs is very effective and i will use cheetah just to be able to get away from them quicker and give myself that extra second or two to root them up.  in pvp combat - if i just stand there and let classes beat on me during fights, i better be prepared to heal and hope i have more power than them. root and snare work for about 2 seconds until they are removed thru potions/whatnot.  cheetah was nice to have, because u could run around and kite much more easily.  now - that whole playstyle has almost been removed from pvp combat. i dunno - i know if you were not a fury you probably think the spell was overpowered bacause if i didnt like the way a fight was going i could pact and run off - i guess there is some truth to it, but then again - the spell only lasts soo long and with people being able to have one groupmate stay out of combat to evac them an whatnot... i mean - maybe i just miss my old style of playing but i have definatley had to adjust. thoughts? comments? i'd like to see what other people think about this - even tho my dreams of getting things to the way they used to be will probably never happen. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />KayahDarkhandNagafen

[HerbertWalker]

<p>Druids don't need boosted.   Certain other classes do need serious boosting to be balanced with the powers of a Fury.   Why make the balance problem even worse by granting more more more to a class near the top of the food chain?   Nerf the top, boost the bottom - if you want balance.</p>

[Krokous]

tbh fury is helpless vs heavy melee classes as brigand, asas, zerk... pact gave them some strat to use... now fury became only group gank mashine

[Radigazt]

<p>I built multiple Furies around in-combat runspeed.  I maxxed out the EoF and KoS lines for in-combat runspeed, I maxxed out the EoF Hindering line to get Kudzu for more snaring, and I had a blast being the group's dog catcher.  When somebody decided to flee PvP (EverRUNAWAY!) I could usually go fast enough in-combat to catch them and snare them, then with the 2 second snare-proc on a spell, I could hit them while still snaring them and allowing my group to catch up.  For me, it was a fun niche to play in PvP.  Nobody was more bummed to see it nerfed than me.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But personally, if someone is shooting arrows in my back, they shoudn't be the ones slowing down ... it should be me, the dude bleeding and unable to use his muscles to their fullest extent.  So, I've always thought that reducing runspeed in-combat is counter-intuitive ... and just plain dumb.  If it's a PvP server, you shouldn't prioritize running away.  </p><p>In-combat runspeed shouldn't be nerfed IMHO.  I'd be happy if Pact of the Cheetah worked as intended in PvP, but if not, make it have some utility, like immunity to snare and root for the duration of the spell at least.  It's a high level spell that had a real use in PvP, and it even has AA enhancements ... just disabling it entirely seems like a poor solution to me.  </p>

[Dh]

<p>It is bs that a fury cant boost run speed and run away once hit in pvp combat (not even fighting back) but people CAN evac and completely disapear to immunity even after being hit in pvp. Invis spells should also work in pvp combat like scout stealth does.</p>

[Tugatug]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is bs that a fury cant boost run speed and run away once hit in pvp combat (not even fighting back) but people CAN evac and completely disapear to immunity even after being hit in pvp. Invis spells should also work in pvp combat like scout stealth does.</p></blockquote>Unless I am mistaken about something, but a fury can use their +speed abilities as long as they haven't initiated any offensive action in pvp. I know on my Kerran I can cast his racial after being hit in pvp combat, but as soon as I attack someone it does not work. Same as every other +speed ability it drops once you initiate offensive ability.AFAIK evac is unusable once you initiate offensive action in pvp, just as +run speed drops.This game would be LOL I can do as I please, because I have +80 run speed vs. a class and itemized guy sitting with close to 0% run speed. This would be [Removed for Content] as hell. If you have ever played WoW pvp much the only class that has a significant (over 40%) run speed bonus are druids. This is counterable as the character is in travel form and cannot initiate any action. The classes that this is effective against have a multitude of ways to keep them in range. Shamans can ghostwolf, but they don't drop movement impairing abilities and they can't use any abilities, so is limited. Hunters also have a +30% togglable buff, but if they are attacked with it up they get dazed putting them to move slightly faster than a stop.They can't have a huge amount of people developing PVP for the what 3 servers that offer it.

[Amphibia]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is bs that a fury cant boost run speed and run away once hit in pvp combat (not even fighting back) but people CAN evac and completely disapear to immunity even after being hit in pvp. Invis spells should also work in pvp combat like scout stealth does.</p></blockquote>Good point. One can only wonder why such BS stuff like this can stay in the game forever and not get changed. Maybe the people who say that PvP issues isn't very high on the priority list in this game are right.... /sigh

[Rattfa]

I don't even have pact on my hotbar anymore <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Deceiv]

<cite>Tugatug wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is bs that a fury cant boost run speed and run away once hit in pvp combat (not even fighting back) but people CAN evac and completely disapear to immunity even after being hit in pvp. Invis spells should also work in pvp combat like scout stealth does.</p></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;">Unless I am mistaken about something, but a fury can use their +speed abilities as long as they haven't</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">initiated any offensive action in pvp</span>. I know on my Kerran I can cast his racial after being hit in pvp combat, but as soon as I attack someone it does not work. Same as every other +speed ability it drops once you initiate offensive ability.AFAIK evac is unusable once you initiate offensive action in pvp, just as +run speed drops.This game would be LOL I can do as I please, because I have +80 run speed vs. a class and itemized guy sitting with close to 0% run speed. This would be [Removed for Content] as hell. If you have ever played WoW pvp much the only class that has a significant (over 40%) run speed bonus are druids. This is counterable as the character is in travel form and cannot initiate any action. The classes that this is effective against have a multitude of ways to keep them in range. Shamans can ghostwolf, but they don't drop movement impairing abilities and they can't use any abilities, so is limited. Hunters also have a +30% togglable buff, but if they are attacked with it up they get dazed putting them to move slightly faster than a stop.They can't have a huge amount of people developing PVP for the what 3 servers that offer it.</blockquote><p>SOLO:      If a fury Does nothing and is trying to get away from someone and has not engaged in any pvp combat and hits pact of the cheetah he WILL go into pvp combat if he has been attacked , it is the same as healing or buffing. This is lame if I am running at 45 percent run speed and see a group and try to cheetah away and I get hit by an arrow right before I cheetah I will get put into pvp combat and drop all run speed enhancements. This should NOT be this way. Cheetah should only not work if I am alrdy in pvp combat. It should never place me into it......</p><p>GROUP:    Also If I hit pact and anyone in my group is in pvp combat ,this will also place me into pvp combat just like healing </p>

[TehDrunkenFury]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Druids don't need boosted.   Certain other classes do need serious boosting to be balanced with the powers of a Fury.   Why make the balance problem even worse by granting more more more to a class near the top of the food chain?   Nerf the top, boost the bottom - if you want balance.</p></blockquote>The big kids are talking about t8. Not ubar EL and lavastorm PvP.

[Zacarus]

<cite>Fyirefly@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tugatug wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is bs that a fury cant boost run speed and run away once hit in pvp combat (not even fighting back) but people CAN evac and completely disapear to immunity even after being hit in pvp. Invis spells should also work in pvp combat like scout stealth does.</p></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;">Unless I am mistaken about something, but a fury can use their +speed abilities as long as they haven't</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">initiated any offensive action in pvp</span>. I know on my Kerran I can cast his racial after being hit in pvp combat, but as soon as I attack someone it does not work. Same as every other +speed ability it drops once you initiate offensive ability.AFAIK evac is unusable once you initiate offensive action in pvp, just as +run speed drops.This game would be LOL I can do as I please, because I have +80 run speed vs. a class and itemized guy sitting with close to 0% run speed. This would be [Removed for Content] as hell. If you have ever played WoW pvp much the only class that has a significant (over 40%) run speed bonus are druids. This is counterable as the character is in travel form and cannot initiate any action. The classes that this is effective against have a multitude of ways to keep them in range. Shamans can ghostwolf, but they don't drop movement impairing abilities and they can't use any abilities, so is limited. Hunters also have a +30% togglable buff, but if they are attacked with it up they get dazed putting them to move slightly faster than a stop.They can't have a huge amount of people developing PVP for the what 3 servers that offer it.</blockquote><p>SOLO:      If a fury Does nothing and is trying to get away from someone and has not engaged in any pvp combat and hits pact of the cheetah he WILL go into pvp combat if he has been attacked , it is the same as healing or buffing. This is lame if i am running at 45 percent run speed and see a group and try to cheetah away and I get hit by an arrow right before i cheetah i will get put into pvp combat and drop all run speed enhancements. this should NOT be this way. Cheetah should only not work if I am alrdy in pvp combat. it should never place me into it......</p><p>GROUP:    Also If I hit pact and anyone in my group is in pvp combat ,this will also place me into pvp combat just like healing </p></blockquote>How are these scenarios different?A.) A Fury gets hit by a foe, and hits POC to get awayB.) A foe gets rooted by a Fury, and drinks a potion to cure the rootIn both cases someone is using an ability to initiate an escape sequence.  Someone at SOE decided to change B, therefore they had to change A.  I don't know why Evac still works, because its basically the same as A and B.  Also, Sprint was re-re-adjusted, so that it does *not* put you into pvp combat if you sprint w/o doing anything else after being attacked.I think SOE should review these rules on a case by case basis, its not too hard.  Clearly there are innate abilities certain classes *should* be able to utilize (including all classes using potions) in order to retreat.  The lines are fuzzy (if they allow POC, the shamans and sorcerers will cry to allow their wards), but (IMHO) a line can be drawn between the pure escape, and the more fuzzy defend-then-escape.But I don't think SOE is going to bother because of what others in the thread have said, PVP is a relatively small percentage of their subscriber base.

[Deceiv]

<cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Fyirefly@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Tugatug wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>It is bs that a fury cant boost run speed and run away once hit in pvp combat (not even fighting back) but people CAN evac and completely disapear to immunity even after being hit in pvp. Invis spells should also work in pvp combat like scout stealth does.</p></blockquote><span style="font-size: medium;">Unless I am mistaken about something, but a fury can use their +speed abilities as long as they haven't</span> <span style="font-size: medium;">initiated any offensive action in pvp</span>. I know on my Kerran I can cast his racial after being hit in pvp combat, but as soon as I attack someone it does not work. Same as every other +speed ability it drops once you initiate offensive ability.AFAIK evac is unusable once you initiate offensive action in pvp, just as +run speed drops.This game would be LOL I can do as I please, because I have +80 run speed vs. a class and itemized guy sitting with close to 0% run speed. This would be [Removed for Content] as hell. If you have ever played WoW pvp much the only class that has a significant (over 40%) run speed bonus are druids. This is counterable as the character is in travel form and cannot initiate any action. The classes that this is effective against have a multitude of ways to keep them in range. Shamans can ghostwolf, but they don't drop movement impairing abilities and they can't use any abilities, so is limited. Hunters also have a +30% togglable buff, but if they are attacked with it up they get dazed putting them to move slightly faster than a stop.They can't have a huge amount of people developing PVP for the what 3 servers that offer it.</blockquote><p>SOLO:      If a fury Does nothing and is trying to get away from someone and has not engaged in any pvp combat and hits pact of the cheetah he WILL go into pvp combat if he has been attacked , it is the same as healing or buffing. This is lame if i am running at 45 percent run speed and see a group and try to cheetah away and I get hit by an arrow right before i cheetah i will get put into pvp combat and drop all run speed enhancements. this should NOT be this way. Cheetah should only not work if I am alrdy in pvp combat. it should never place me into it......</p><p>GROUP:    Also If I hit pact and anyone in my group is in pvp combat ,this will also place me into pvp combat just like healing </p></blockquote>How are these scenarios different?A.) A Fury gets hit by a foe, and hits POC to get awayB.) A foe gets rooted by a Fury, and drinks a potion to cure the rootIn both cases someone is using an ability to initiate an escape sequence.  Someone at SOE decided to change B, therefore they had to change A.  I don't know why Evac still works, because its basically the same as A and B.  Also, Sprint was re-re-adjusted, so that it does *not* put you into pvp combat if you sprint w/o doing anything else after being attacked.I think SOE should review these rules on a case by case basis, its not too hard.  Clearly there are innate abilities certain classes *should* be able to utilize (including all classes using potions) in order to retreat.  The lines are fuzzy (if they allow POC, the shamans and sorcerers will cry to allow their wards), but (IMHO) a line can be drawn between the pure escape, and the more fuzzy defend-then-escape.But I don't think SOE is going to bother because of what others in the thread have said, PVP is a relatively small percentage of their subscriber base.</blockquote>     I understand what you are saying about the root part and I agree. But even if I am not rooted or snared it still puts me into pvp combat. Also once I am in pvp combat I can't use pact at all , not even to break root, if just wont let me cast it. So just remove the part of pact that removes root and let it give you the run speed. I beleave that would be the best fix. And yes I said fix I still beleave it is broke as it is.

[Krokous]

ive been ganked alot by furies but i still believe that Pact SHOULD work in pvp combat. -it is useful ability and no way overpowered (fury is no way close to being overpowered char in t6-t<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zaci]

Cry more? Seriously, just adapt, there is no way it is getting ut back in no matter what people want, I cant think of one thing that soe made some bonehead decision about removing (Rangers focus aim) that ended up getting put back in. If they are gonna nerf things, how about the [Removed for Content] one shot pets in kunark and not things that arent a problem like PoC or focus aim.

[Raidyen]

<p>My wife plays a fury.  Right now with Chokadi totems, and her run speed AA's, she can have 100 percent run speed all the time, making cheeta pointless anyway.  Any class with this kind of run speed can get away from just about any one on one, or duo trying to kill you.  </p><p>As far as ANY fury having trouble with any other class, if a fury is loosing 1 on 1 fights, your getting beat buy either gear, a higher level, or a better player.  Has nothing to do with not having cheeta or any other in combat runspeeds.</p>

[sokil]

<p>I agree.. change POC. Simplying using the ability while being attacked should not put you into combat. It is already regulated by having it be a LIMITED speed buff. Limited meaning "short duration". </p><p>If a fury attackes.. then you should not have POC just like any other escape spell (evac for mutiple other classes). When in combat speed should be reduced to the limit set by pvp combat rules. </p><p> SOE made POC so useless that it  is not worth putting any aa into it. The only use I see is helping my group catch a mark but even then the minute someone attacks I am at a standstill so even then it is not very useful. </p><p>As far as it breaking a root.. since you cannot cast it while in combat that is a wast of space on the discription pannel.</p>

[Zaci]

<p>Furys have trouble with good scouts, they cant heal through their dps. The only fury that I have fought that always [Removed for Content] me is Dramasetter, because of his like 12 damageshields.</p>

[Krokous]

Zaci we arent here to listen your childish accomplishments, we are here to demand Pact to work in combat

[HerbertWalker]

<p>You will never be able to use it while in combat.   Stick to the original request - it should work while you are being attacked but still out of combat mode, just like evac.   And just like evac, when its timer elapses you should be placed into combat mode immediately.   No?</p>

[TehDrunkenFury]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>You will never be able to use it while in combat.   Stick to the original request - it should work while you are being attacked but still out of combat mode, just like evac.   And just like evac, when its timer elapses you should be placed into combat mode immediately.   No?</p></blockquote>Just like evac? You mean the spell that can be cast with someone hitting them, and they are teleported away, with unlimited immunity until they decide to move around? Or does evac put them in combat now, and only last ~30 seconds? If so, ya, it's just like evac.

[Radigazt]

<p>OK, let's be clear, nobody is asking for immunity when the spell ends like Evac has.  Nah, we're not asking for that, we'd just like our level 39 spell to work, and if it's not going to work while in-combat (like it should), then at least let it work while you are out of combat because that's the way Evac works for Swashies, Brigs, Rangers, Assassins, Troubadors, Dirges, Shadowknights, Wizards, and oddly enough, Wardens. </p>

[Dh]

<p>Just make it so you cannot evac after being hit in PVP combat. Scouts have it it easy with track and evac. Evac cant even be stoppd once they cast it. I play a few different scouts but I still think evac needs to be changed. At the very least it should not casted on the run and getting stunned while casting it should stop it just like warden/wizard/sk evac. I would be happy with completely disabling evac on pvp  servers. we are here to pvp anyhow thats why we chose the server with 'pvp' next to it. most classes that have evac have tracking too. If you have tracking, there is no reason you should be able to just disapear to immunity until you decide to fight again.</p>

[Amphibia]

<cite>Dhye@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Just make it so you cannot evac after being hit in PVP combat. Scouts have it it easy with track and evac. Evac cant even be stoppd once they cast it. I play a few different scouts but I still think evac needs to be changed. At the very least it should not casted on the run and getting stunned while casting it should stop it just like warden/wizard/sk evac. I would be happy with completely disabling evac on pvp  servers. we are here to pvp anyhow thats why we chose the server with 'pvp' next to it. most classes that have evac have tracking too. If you have tracking, there is no reason you should be able to just disapear to immunity until you decide to fight again.</p></blockquote>QFE. Nothing more needs to be said.It really doesn't make any sense that you can evac after someone has hit you, but not use pact of cheetah. If evac is going to stay permanently, furies should be allowed to use PoC to run away if they aren't otherwise engaged in PvP combat.

[Vendi]

I have not even tried to use PoC since they nerfed it...i mean killed it. While trying to make Furies more evenly matched in t3-5 they totally killed them for t6-8. I have better than average gear, and think that I am a somewhat decent PvPer, but since they "fixed" Furies I don't stand a chance in a 1v1. Before the "fix" I could win most 2v1 and some 3v1 or higher. The last thing on my list of complaints is PoC, cause I would much rather be able to stand and fight, and have a chance to win, then run. I would like to be able to use PoC to catch runners though. I can understand how someone that cares about titles or just absolutely hates to lose would want this to work though, I've just learned to "adapt" as some would like to say. I have come to realize that I can't win a 1v1 anymore, and even when I'm in a group I know that they are gonna come for me first (this could be due to the fact that people just don't like Gnomes). Any time I have come close to winning a fight lately a group comes in and "helps" their fellow freep in the battle against good. So, I just go on, and hope I don't run into the idiots that think it's their job to keep me from completing a quest.

[Bloodfa]

For what it's worth, Evac has ported me & mine into the evac location flagged for combat on many, many occasions.  We're sitting there, thinking we're immune while we regroup & replan against a larger (and higher levelled) force, when in they roll and wipe us in 5 seconds.  It happens.  Not sure why ... maybe it's resummoning a horse that does it or something similarly screwy, but it's not always a perfect getaway.  Me, I miss PoTC.  We've got a few Furies I like to run with. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  But now, every race has a 50% run buff that lasts half a minute with a 5 minute reuse.  That doesn't put you into combat.  I've used it to run down and to run away from, so there's still a 'get out of jail free' card available for everybody, as the initiators of combat are unable to use it.  Just some food for thought.

[Zaci]

<p>That happens if you were in combat and someone in your grouped evacs that wasnt Bloodfang afaik. And Krokous, if you read my entire comment, you would realize that it made since and vouched for Pact, but I merely stated the fact that it is pointless, soe is a dictatorship, not a democracy, not much of what the community wants in these kinds of situations are listened to.</p>

[HerbertWalker]

<cite>Llishia@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have not even tried to use PoC since they nerfed it...i mean killed it. While trying to make Furies more evenly matched in t3-5 they totally killed them for t6-8. I have better than average gear, and think that I am a somewhat decent PvPer, but since they "fixed" Furies I don't stand a chance in a 1v1.</blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand this.</p><p>Are you are saying that in T6-8 your Fury does not stand a chance against a solo Guardian, a solo Inquisitor, a solo Templar, a solo Enchanter, nor a solo Bard?</p>

[Krokous]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Llishia@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have not even tried to use PoC since they nerfed it...i mean killed it. While trying to make Furies more evenly matched in t3-5 they totally killed them for t6-8. I have better than average gear, and think that I am a somewhat decent PvPer, but since they "fixed" Furies I don't stand a chance in a 1v1.</blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand this.</p><p>Are you are saying that in T6-8 your Fury does not stand a chance against a solo Guardian, a solo Inquisitor, a solo Templar, a solo Enchanter, nor a solo Bard?</p></blockquote>solo enchanter owns fury so bad that its massacre.  solo inquiz should destroy fury aswell (dont played inquiz but saw inq power on my own butt)fury vs templar would become endless fight so i think its a draw. vs solo bard im not sure tho there are some decent troubadours

[Radigazt]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Llishia@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have not even tried to use PoC since they nerfed it...i mean killed it. While trying to make Furies more evenly matched in t3-5 they totally killed them for t6-8. I have better than average gear, and think that I am a somewhat decent PvPer, but since they "fixed" Furies I don't stand a chance in a 1v1.</blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand this.</p><p>Are you are saying that in T6-8 your Fury does not stand a chance against a solo Guardian, a solo Inquisitor, a solo Templar, a solo Enchanter, nor a solo Bard?</p></blockquote><p>This wasn't asked of me, so please excuse me for replying, but, a solo Inquisitor, hell no, but few toons can handle a properly specc'd Inquisitor, they're very strong at 1v1's if you know how to spec and play them.  As for the Enchanter, I'd bet on the Enchanter every time, but an Animal Form Fury has a chance against an Illusionist.  A Coercer ... they are beasts.  Once they put their powerkill on you, if you heal, u die, if you dps, u die ... so really, only things you can do are auto-attack, cure, potion, cure, and hope you can get into mele with them or just resist everything and dps them down real fast.  As for a Guardian, Templar or Bard, the Fury should win IMHO.  </p><p>But just look at what we discussed ... he said since his Fury was "fixed" he can't solo hardly anything, and you mentioned 7 classes specifically, and 3 of them are already better than the Fury at the high levels.  I noticed that you didn't mention the other 16 classes, but most of them can too.  Just about every Priest can beat a Fury if specc'd correctly, the only real exception is a Templar--and you mentioned him.  Just about every Scout can beat a Fury, and you mentioned the 2 who would have trouble.  So, a Fury probably loses to 4 of the 5 other Priests and 4 of the 6 Scouts, somewhere between 2 and 4 of the 6 Mages (lots of variables in those fights), 1 to 4 of the Fighter classes (loses to SK's and depends for Berserkers, Monks, Bruisers and Paladins), and you're thinking a Fury is overpowered?  </p><p>In T3 and T4, maybe they're strong, but once the 50's come around things c hange drastically.  A Fury is a darn fun class, and it's good in most situations and very versatile, but in T6-T8 it is in no way overpowered or near the top of the food chain.  </p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>It really doesn't make any sense that you can evac after someone has hit you</blockquote>I thought this was changed. *scratches head*I was under the impression that evac couldn't be cast if you were in combat with another player.. but if you were engaged with a mob (PvE) it would work.Guess I didn't have to just stand there and die after all when I wasn't paying attention to my tracking window and didn't see the group jump me. [Removed for Content] you Sara Silverman for distracting me!! XD

[Bloodfa]

<p>Hmmm, thanks Zaci. That would explain why it's inconsistent. </p><p>Spyderbite, if you haven't done anything to respond to PvP, it should still allow you to evac.  I've done it myself with 2 orange-con (read as level 80) Generals chasing me through the water from Omen's Call all the way to the base of the path up to Bathezid Watch, then blipped out when they finally got to me.</p>

[Vendi]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Llishia@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote>I have not even tried to use PoC since they nerfed it...i mean killed it. While trying to make Furies more evenly matched in t3-5 they totally killed them for t6-8. I have better than average gear, and think that I am a somewhat decent PvPer, but since they "fixed" Furies I don't stand a chance in a 1v1.</blockquote><p>Just want to make sure I understand this.</p><p>Are you are saying that in T6-8 your Fury does not stand a chance against a solo Guardian, a solo Inquisitor, a solo Templar, a solo Enchanter, nor a solo Bard?</p></blockquote>I can't say that I have ever run into a solo Guardian, other than in arena, which is not close to real world PvP. I can't remember the last time I saw a solo Bard or Coercer, but the last time I ran into a Coercer, some time in my early 60's, I was owned. Could have been he was 8 or so levels above me. As for Templar, I have never fought one since I am a Q and have never seen an exile Temp. Now I have recently fought an Inquisitor and it was a close fight until I ran out of power, and since he was not melee, animal form did me no good.As already stated, you have only mentioned a few of the classes I should be able to beat in a 1v1. It would not take you too long to list the number of times you have seen any of the classes you listed running around solo in t6-t8. And the ones that you do see, are in a class of their own.I agree that Furies a lot of fun to play, and I take pride in being a better than average Fury, but they are now useless in solo PvP in t6-8. If your gonna play a Fury to solo, then stay in t3-5 where they can still win most fights if played well.

[Zaci]

To be completely honest, a good inquisitor shouldnt have any trouble with *most* classes if they have manastones and know what they are doing. A fury at t7 - t8 is not as good as they are at the lower tiers, they are in the middle of classes that can fight by themselves well, probably just above dirges, coercers, guardians, and paladins. I have no problem with Pact working like evac, but the reason evac works is that it is a oneshot spell. If you are casting call and get engaged before it goes off and dont get intterupted it takes you away, but if it didnt zone you, you would be in combat. Personally, I think thye need to change the any spell, even stealth, or totems, or eating or drinking, or sprinting puts you in combat thing. Want to know the craziest and most ironic one of that? One of the assassin tree's end AA abilitys is a skill called getaway, it drops your target, and gives you a run speed boost for a short duration. The funny part is that in pvp it puts you in combat, and cancels all run speed buffs=P

[HerbertWalker]

<p>There is a reason I posed that question, and it served its purpose.</p><p>The Fury is better than <u>some</u> classes in T6-8, as indicated by your responses.   That is a different answer than what was stated earlier in the thread.  Priority for which classes to boost first should go to the gimpest of the [Removed for Content] solo classes.   Priority should go to the most underplayed classes.  There is a reason why no one plays some of those classes.   It is because they are [Removed for Content] solo.</p><p>Never seen a solo Guardian running around?   That's because we all quit our T7 Guardians a long time ago.   It is an unfairly gimped class because it is completely unviable solo in T7 - much moreso than Furies.    Therefore, you all should be clamoring for increases to those other classes' solo capabilities.... BEFORE your own selfish imbalancing requests to further boost Furies.   Because from a solo lvl 70 Guardian's perspective, you are asking for improvements to Furies so that you can even more easily defeat us.   That is BS, and now you understand the perspective of a character even more problematic than yours.</p>

[Zacarus]

<cite>Spyderbite@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>It really doesn't make any sense that you can evac after someone has hit you</blockquote>I thought this was changed. *scratches head*I was under the impression that evac couldn't be cast if you were in combat with another player.. but if you were engaged with a mob (PvE) it would work.Guess I didn't have to just stand there and die after all when I wasn't paying attention to my tracking window and didn't see the group jump me. [I cannot control my vocabulary] you Sara Silverman for distracting me!! XD</blockquote>The key point here is, "were in combat."  If you are attacked you are not put into pvp combat.  You are put into pvp combat by initiating some (scratch your head over the logic behind the list of) action.  So some grey could sit there and hit you for 5 minutes, not doing any meaningful damage, and (if this sort of thing floats your boat) you could then evac if you so choose.

[Vendi]

<cite>HerbertWalker wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>There is a reason I posed that question, and it served its purpose.</p><p>The Fury is better than <u>some</u> classes in T6-8, as indicated by your responses.   That is a different answer than what was stated earlier in the thread.  Priority for which classes to boost first should go to the gimpest of the [Removed for Content] solo classes.   Priority should go to the most underplayed classes.  There is a reason why no one plays some of those classes.   It is because they are [Removed for Content] solo.</p><p>Never seen a solo Guardian running around?   That's because we all quit our T7 Guardians a long time ago.   It is an unfairly gimped class because it is completely unviable solo in T7 - much moreso than Furies.    Therefore, you all should be clamoring for increases to those other classes' solo capabilities.... BEFORE your own selfish imbalancing requests to further boost Furies.   Because from a solo lvl 70 Guardian's perspective, you are asking for improvements to Furies so that you can even more easily defeat us.   That is BS, and now you understand the perspective of a character even more problematic than yours.</p></blockquote>I agree with you that the priority should be to boost the abilities of the [Removed for Content] classes. Again, boost the [Removed for Content] classes and stop the nerfs. The whole point of what I am trying to say is that a class should not get worse the higher up you go, it should get better. That is what nerfs do, they mess up the play-ability of classes. If they would make plate work like plate should, Guardians, would be a lot better in PvP (A Plate Tank should not be easier to kill than a Clothie with Manashield). If they would increase the DPS of the Bards, they would be better at PvP. All you have to do is look back over the last year and a half and see what nerfs have done, rather than encourage people to shift to play the more [Removed for Content] classes, they just shifted to the popular ones that were not nerfed. Then the nerfs come again and the population shifts. Yet the [Removed for Content] classes remain underplayed. So, I say stop the nerfs and start making the [Removed for Content] classes more viable in PvP.

[HerbertWalker]

<p>I understand your opinion, but mine is that balance can and should sometimes come in the form of nerfs to the most overplayed and most overpowered classes.   Ideally you only want to boost the bottom, but sometimes a nerf to the top is the best solution for some specific balancing.</p>