Plat from epics , this one needs looking at badly. [Archive]

Lairdragna

11-24-2007, 12:10 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>While the idea of Epics dropping plat is good its going to be a game breaker if it isnt looked at quickly.The hardcore raiding crowd frankly dont really need a huge influx of extra plat and that is what this is. In a very short time there are going to be guilds out there making litterally thousands of plat per week from simply killing epic content and thats just from plat in chests.Come on guys admit it Id like to know from any of the top guilds just how much you made in the last couple of days ? long before you have trivialised any of the content.The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ?If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" /></blockquote>Quite frankly I don't think this is a huge issue, and no, I am not in one of the guilds that benefits from this. First off, at this stage of the game raiders are going to be doing a lot of dying as they learn the new mobs. As gear becomes worth more, so does the price to repair it. Additionally, raiders burn a ton of expensive potions, poisons, stat food and drink. What masters they don't get as drops, they are paying out the nose for now... and they are often buying them from casual players who get a lucky random drop. Raiders also tend to have alts - what do you do once you are 80/140 and nothing to raid during the day? That's right, you twink out an alt... and chances are you buying rares, masters and the like from casual players.Trust me, 50 plat a week is nothing. I was down to 1p50g the other day after buying up enough rares to make my spells. Within 48 hours I'm up to 50p. Did not get any master drops, just questing and harvesting and collecting shinies. Now granted, the only new coin coming into the game from my activities is from the quests. The harvests and collectibles are redistributing coin from one player to the other. But here is the kicker, I live in kelethin and almost nobody came to my home to purchase, they instead used the broker so 20% of that money poofed from the game.I really don't think the sky is falling. If chests were dropping with 200 plat in one chest and each raider was getting like 8p, yeah... might be an issue. But a chest with 50p in it giving 2p per raider is nice, but not game breaking.

Domiuk

11-24-2007, 12:11 PM

Lol thats exactly it 1 epic drops 25p , but how many of those epics can you kill in one night ? 5 ? 10 ? 20 ? I know my guild certainly could in EOF , 20 X 25p in a night starts looking a lot of money. Its early days I really do not know what the numbers are going to be BUT i do know that some guilds are already pulling way over 100p per night and are still a fair way off properly raiding T8 yet.I am simply saying its too much.10 Hard lvls of questing from 70 to 80 is likely to make a player 50 maybe even 100p , in a couple of weeks I expect almost every top end raider will be making that per week (solely from epic plat drops) and I believe that would have a very negitive impact on the econemy, Dont you ?

Lairdragna

11-24-2007, 12:13 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol thats exactly it 1 epic drops 25p , but how many of those epics can you kill in one night ? 5 ? 10 ? 20 ? I know my guild certainly could in EOF , 20 X 25p in a night starts looking a lot of money. Its early days I really do not know what the numbers are going to be BUT i do know that some guilds are already pulling way over 100p per night and are still a fair way off properly raiding T8 yet.I am simply saying its too much.10 Hard lvls of questing from 70 to 80 is likely to make a player 50 maybe even 100p , in a couple of weeks I expect almost every top end raider will be making that per week (solely from epic plat drops) and I believe that would have a very negitive impact on the econemy, Dont you ?</blockquote>Like I said, 48 hours... 50p, not a single Master drop... all questing, harvesting and collecting. Its a no brainer, money is not hard to come by in this game if you are willing to put in the time and let the random number generator work for you.

Belaythien

11-24-2007, 12:40 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol thats exactly it 1 epic drops 25p , but how many of those epics can you kill in one night ? 5 ? 10 ? 20 ? I know my guild certainly could in EOF , 20 X 25p in a night starts looking a lot of money.... </blockquote>25p? Is that how it is or is that just a wild guess? For each epic (including trashmobs) or nameds only? Either way 25p would be very game-breaking; especially on servers where plat is still worth something. That would severely damage the economy on my server. 25p is more than the vast majority of players owns. Even many of those that play almost every day have less than that.

Kaycerzan

11-24-2007, 01:01 PM

Here we complain about the amount of money the raid system might start generating..And yet I see absolutely NO complaints about the amount of money that was shoveled into the game hand over fist by all the quests.30+ plat made JUST from doing solo quests. But yeah.. it's plat dropping from epics that's going to break the game....

Jehannum

11-24-2007, 01:14 PM

<cite>Kaycerzan wrote:</cite><blockquote>Here we complain about the amount of money the raid system might start generating..And yet I see absolutely NO complaints about the amount of money that was shoveled into the game hand over fist by all the quests.30+ plat made JUST from doing solo quests. But yeah.. it's plat dropping from epics that's going to break the game....</blockquote>Two things... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />1. Sony is the ultimate arbiter of whether or not too much coin is being dropped. If they decide (and they've got the metrics to make an informed decision, rather than a Chicken Little decision) that the coin drop rate is too high, they'll reduce it. Perhaps turn up the repair cash sink for a week or two to compensate and drain out the excess, and then back to normal. Cash which only cohesive, coordinated raid forces can gather has, at least, the benefit of screwing over plat sellers who lack the same degree of skill.2. With relation to the above quote, I'd mention that most of the repeatable quests give 500 or 250 faction and no cash at all. The ones which return 10-20 gold each are one-shots and can be assessed on that basis. Raid rewards are potentially infinite, since they're an ongoing source of rewards. As such, they should generally reward somewhat less than a non-repeatable quest. the quests, being a finite source of cash, can be directly assessed, whereas the Epics need to be balanced based on the knowledge that once mastered, they can provide a source of X cash per day (on average). That said, see #1. Sony will either leave things alone, or adjust them. Probably there'll be several adjustments as we go forward, but we'll see. I expect epic mobs will remain a source of repair cash, but the extent may change.

Lairdragna

11-24-2007, 01:15 PM

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Lol thats exactly it 1 epic drops 25p , but how many of those epics can you kill in one night ? 5 ? 10 ? 20 ? I know my guild certainly could in EOF , 20 X 25p in a night starts looking a lot of money.... </blockquote>25p? Is that how it is or is that just a wild guess? For each epic (including trashmobs) or nameds only? Either way 25p would be very game-breaking; especially on servers where plat is still worth something. That would severely damage the economy on my server. 25p is more than the vast majority of players owns. Even many of those that play almost every day have less than that.</blockquote>I hate to break it to you, but there are players on your server with thousands of plat... guarantee it. They might have it spread around, but they are out there. Goblin lottery has given people more than 1,000p several times... yet we're still here. Please, the amount of plat in game will barely be effected by this when compared to the thousands of players pulling in scores of plat off solo quest mobs on each server.

Domiuk

11-24-2007, 01:19 PM

The plat from quests is finite and can be easily judged how much and how fast it enters the game.Solid questing 70-80 will net you in the region 100p frankly not that huge a sum now we are in t8 at that point you have to kill stuff for your money, you will still make good money doing this but it will depend how much time you do it.I know that in EOF from about half way through the tier in a 4 hour raiding session we could kill anything from 5-20 raid named mobs and my guild was by no means absolute top end.Now if these mobs had been dropping 10-25p each time I would be very very wealthy now and so would the members of my guild that frankly only played 16 hours a week and I simply think thats wrong.Incidentally 25p is what the X2s are dropping I really dont know what a high end X4 might drop. We have moved up a tier and everybody expects more money so double the amount of plat entering the game would not be unrealistic, but the sums dropping from raid mobs will badly throw that out of balance.Mega rich guilds is not a good thing for the econemy of the game.

Domiuk

11-24-2007, 01:28 PM

Of course there are wealthy players with thousands of plat.Frankly most of them earned there money with massive amounts of hard work.What I am saying is there are raiders that will join them on the rich list for simply turning up for a few hours per night 4 or 5 days a week.Simply being a raider should not be a meal ticket to getting rich in the game ,raiding already has its benefits and its already very possible to get very wealthy just from raiding.I am not even saying the mobs should not drop coin I am simply saying there dropping too much.

LordPazuzu

11-24-2007, 01:35 PM

Considering how much plat I've made solo questing, I don't see this as an unbalancing issue.

Kaycerzan

11-24-2007, 01:36 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Of course there are wealthy players with thousands of plat.Frankly most of them earned there money with massive amounts of hard work.What I am saying is there are raiders that will join them on the rich list for simply turning up for a few hours per night 4 or 5 days a week.Simply being a raider should not be a meal ticket to getting rich in the game ,raiding already has its benefits and its already very possible to get very wealthy just from raiding.I am not even saying the mobs should not drop coin I am simply saying there dropping too much.</blockquote>Very few people get wealthy from raiding under the current system.. most gear is nodrop, and you spend half you right to get 2-3 of those items. The money that does drop will either to into the pockets of raid / guild leaders, or into the guildbank which is used to potions etc.. and doesn't really make anyone wealthy.

Savanja

11-24-2007, 01:38 PM

I have a hard time being sad that plat is dropping in raids now. Raiding was COSTING me coin in a big way. Loot drops are super, yeah....IF you get them. It's not like amazing pieces drop every mob and it's a freakin gold mine. I get more coinage from gathering collectibles.For casual raiders this will mean a bit more reward for their effort. For hardcore raiders this will mean adding more to an already large pile. A good moneysink for these? When guild houses are added, make the big ones ridiculously expensive to purchase and maintain. Problem solved.

Lairdragna

11-24-2007, 01:38 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The plat from quests is finite and can be easily judged how much and how fast it enters the game.Solid questing 70-80 will net you in the region 100p frankly not that huge a sum now we are in t8 at that point you have to kill stuff for your money, you will still make good money doing this but it will depend how much time you do it.I know that in EOF from about half way through the tier in a 4 hour raiding session we could kill anything from 5-20 raid named mobs and my guild was by no means absolute top end.Now if these mobs had been dropping 10-25p each time I would be very very wealthy now and so would the members of my guild that frankly only played 16 hours a week and I simply think thats wrong.Incidentally 25p is what the X2s are dropping I really dont know what a high end X4 might drop. We have moved up a tier and everybody expects more money so double the amount of plat entering the game would not be unrealistic, but the sums dropping from raid mobs will badly throw that out of balance.Mega rich guilds is not a good thing for the econemy of the game.</blockquote>First off have you even proven that it is dropping off trash? I rather expect it is dropping off nameds with the chance that an occassional trash mob MIGHT drop an exquisite chest that contains plat... MIGHT!Seriously, you are chicken little. I'll clue you in, raid guilds have been rich for a very long time. In DoF it was from mobs dropping rares like candy. I used to have an arrangement with one that I would buy every pearl and vanadium off them for 40g (market was around 1p at the time). I would then have guild alchemists make inks, and I would charge guildies 50g per ink... enough to pay the raid guild 40g and to cover the costs of the alchemist and throw a little in the guild bank. I then returned the powder/loam or whatever the side product was from the combine. In the course of 3-4 months I literally processed thousands of rares for them and all my guildies and all their alts were adept 3d out. Guess what, that made that particular guild VERY wealthy and they didn't even have to life a finger to sell the rares.In KoS the same guilds were selling loot rights to relic and other gear and became quite wealthy. In EoF they were selling spots on raids for 300-600p per person to get EoF class sets, or 100p for just the BP or Legs or for Soulfire updates.The point is these guilds have been wealthy for a very long time, and yet many of their members are often broke despite getting splits that can be in the 100p a month range. Why? They make alts, they twink the everloving crap out of them. Who are they getting the twink gear from? Casual players by and large... That is how the money gets redistributed in the game.Now, if you are arguing that some people who play VERY casually and make no effort to make money might find themselves left behind... yeah, could well happen. But guess what, not everybody else should be held back because they refuse to catch up.There is nothing in this game that you need that you can't earn at a casual pace. Hey, if you're not a raider, you don't need raid gear. Quested gear, heroic drops and mastercrafted will serve you just fine. You don't need Master spells, click nodes until you get spell rares, harvest the raws, and find a tradeskiller to make you one. Each class has I believe 30 new spells/abilities. You could pay 100p for the rares, or go harvest and get them, trade the ones you don't need for those you do... or sell the unneeded rares and raws and buy the stuff you need. The sage who does my combines does them for 20g if I supply the roots and redwood... a steal. If you have a guildie who makes your classes spells, they will usually do them for fuel and raws. So maybe a 6g in fuel and raws you should have from when you went after your rares?So lets see... gear - free from questing and drops. Spells - around 2p in fuel plus your time to harvest the rares and raws, if you don't know a tradeskiller this might climb to 5-6p.So what else do you need to spend coin on? Mounts? Free 40% carpet in DoF, 7p 45% warg in EoF, Fitzpizzle's Hover Platform drops in DT - free. OK, so mounts aren't a huge money sink.Housing? Status rent should be non-existant for most players by now. 4 year veteran reward is a house item that reduces coin rent by 25% I think... Not a huge issue.Consumables - food, drink, repairs, arrows/ranged ammo, poisons, pearls for conjurors... Not much else.So what exactly is it that you need as a casual player in this game that isn't cheap or free to acquire if you put in the time casually? How is an influx of coin going to kill you since you don't seem to need a large amount of coin as it is.

Killerbee3000

11-24-2007, 01:51 PM

before plat dropped form epics, raiders where forced to do solo / heroic content as well, since raiding was a plat drain, (go ask a ranger lol). consumables cost money, repairs cost money. sure, they dont need to buy any piece of gear ever.... but, they must be fully mastered within weeks... you got any clue how much that costs? 500 - 2000 plat per toon easily. all the masters will suck up the plat they allready have.

ganng

11-24-2007, 03:20 PM

Considering the cost of supplies to raid it does not seem like a bad idea to add more plat to the raid content. I raid 3 times a week not hardcore in the slightest bit and end up running out of money verry quickly. If I were a betting man I would venture to guess that this is an attempt to lessen the ability of plat sellers. Sounds goofy? Well I know of many players that can not make enough plat on a month to month basis to cover their raid repair and supply costs and yet they still find themselvs with plat... wonder how that happened??

Gutwren

11-24-2007, 04:02 PM

So... every night a guild kills 4 epic named. 25p ea. That's 4p per person per night.Less than 1p repair bill, and if you're a ranger another 1p for arrows.Okay, so 4p per person, per night, for four nights...Did all these people "earn" 16p from farming for uber upgrade fabled gear?

g0thiC_iCe_cReaM

11-24-2007, 05:03 PM

i'm sorry, but it's a GOOD change, when i'm spending a plat or more in repairs b/c we're learning a new zone, not to mention the price of potions, repair kits, ammo etc, hell the mender bots charge almost twice what it would cost to go to a mender... i think it's about time that there be at least some decent coin drops to split across the raid...most good loot that drops is no-trade anyways so you need to get something to off set the costs of raiding, you can go through a good 10 plat in a week if you're learning new zones if not more, and when you have to compete with 24 other people on loot or loot that's no-trade then you need something to balance out the costs...i know a few people that jsut sit out a lot of raids when their guild is learning a new zone simply because they can't afford it...this helps with that quite a bit... besides you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours, so i don't see this being game breaking, it's about on the level of money earned by a casual player

Cadori Seraphim

11-24-2007, 05:08 PM

I agree that its a good change, though I think it needs to be toned down just a tad.I think this would also depend on how many boss mobs per raid instance there are and how fast they are built to be killed.Repair bills and supplies are indeed expensive, so I agree that more cash to cover those things would be essential. Though I think if what people are saying is true that the amount is a bit excessive and could be toned down a bit to where the cash dropped would still be good for covering costs, but not so much to where its overdone.

g0thiC_iCe_cReaM

11-24-2007, 05:16 PM

eh considering the amount of money spell and combat art upgrades are going to cost even after the market settles i think it's about inline with the amount of money you make simply questing for the same amount of time you would spend on a raidif you think about it, you spend 4 or 5 hours raiding in a night learning a new zone...you would end up with the same amount of plat if you simply went out and quested and questing doesn't generally have the same costs associated with it as raiding does...so for an effort of 4 or 5 hours raiding you come away with 4 or 5 plat, in that same amount of time you could probably make the same amount plat just questing t7 and t8...imo it's inline with casual playing

Cadori Seraphim

11-24-2007, 05:29 PM

<cite>Garthan@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote>eh considering the amount of money spell and combat art upgrades are going to cost even after the market settles i think it's about inline with the amount of money you make simply questing for the same amount of time you would spend on a raidif you think about it, you spend 4 or 5 hours raiding in a night learning a new zone...you would end up with the same amount of plat if you simply went out and quested and questing doesn't generally have the same costs associated with it as raiding does...so for an effort of 4 or 5 hours raiding you come away with 4 or 5 plat, in that same amount of time you could probably make the same amount plat just questing t7 and t8...imo it's inline with casual playing</blockquote>True, but this is hugely flawed. Quests are not infinate. Raiders can do all of the quests and lvl up that way and then at lvl 80 go raid and get even more money from the boss mobs, and once the learning curve is done, farm and farm and farm all they want each week (or whenever the zone timer is up)Casual players can lvl up the same way, but if you are not in a guild that can raid and you have no more quests to do that give you a good amount of money, then your just SOL.It's obvious that if you area a raider, you will be able to get the masters you need before casual gamers do, as well as better gear.. and repair bills are mean, especially when you are working on new content that you must learn.. so I do agree more money was better.I still don't think it should be that much money tho, again if people's claims are accurate.

g0thiC_iCe_cReaM

11-24-2007, 06:16 PM

that's not entirely the case either...i didn't start raiding until a few months ago, i ran out of quests to do, but i farmed instances for money and crafted...the main source of my income came from crafting...i was able to get decent gear and get mastered out at 70 without raiding, so it's not going to tip the balance in favor of raiders imo...the casual can do the same thing, i did a lot of PuGs to get the money for masters and get the gear i wanted due to the fact i was in a guild that kinda started to die out...you get more sellable items from the casual experience than raiding anyways...most raid drops that are worth anything are no-trade so they either get sacrificed, transmuted or vendored when there's no one that can use em, whereas a LOT of the loot from 1 groupable instances can get sold on the broker for plat...we did a quick labs run lastnight and 90% of the drops ended up being FFA no-trade...i have a feeling that it's not happening at the scale elluded to...but still i can now spend more time raiding than crafting (which i hate)...i think it's more balancing to allow people who devote more time to raiding, than crafting and questing to be able to keep up finacially...honestly my little pool of money was starting to dwindle from having to spend so much just to raid...honestly if i hadn't been mastered out before i joined a guild that casually raids i wouldn't have been able to afford to get mastered for quite a while... good example of the money sink is the time we spent trying to figure out freethinker's, over 2 plat in repairs between mender bot and repair kits in 1 night...that's quite a bit when you average maybe 30-50g in sales in a day...sometimes zones we already do well don't go so well and you end up spending a plat in repairs anyways because half your raid is a PuG...i think this change benefits casual raiding guilds more than it does the uber raiding guild

DMIstar

11-24-2007, 06:57 PM

I dont mind it.. Though the thing i Fear is the Rares On Broker going up because of it, This will crush a big part of the player base ... yes Quests right now are giveing a ton of plat. Though the quests do end at some point, As well as, The Broker is player driven economy.... Meaning since quests are handing out X amount of plat, People will raise the Price of Rares to soak in the more plat.. Siliciate(SP?) Loam is a great example on my server.. people are pushing it 9p to sell. Its just not worth that lol. Masters are going for 50p the norm.. To some who are trying to sell them over 150p ... Just think EQ economy overall.. This could scale to being 2kpp things to be sold ;/

Burnout

11-24-2007, 07:03 PM

so, there we have someone not killed any x4 in rok - but complaining about the money drop?we talk again when you finished the t8.1 raids - when you did the t8.2 raids, when you've burned platin for repearing gear, for the spells you need... when you're really raiding & have a real life - so you can't raid AND farm for money...thousands of platin? raidnameds in rok (in rok - not in eof..) drop ~1p/raider. these zones have timers, and most of them have 1 named in... so - where are those tons of platin you see?raids finally start to pay off themselves in platin. the costs you have as raider can now be payed from raiding. and i welcome it. maybe in x months there will start to be a light + in plat from raiding. but it would take ages to do those thousands you see in a week.by simply doing the SOLO questlines - you get 80+p in gold&sellable gear in rok - just for soloing... THAT's a point ...

Keno

11-24-2007, 07:47 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>I know that in EOF from about half way through the tier in a 4 hour raiding session we could kill anything from 5-20 raid named mobs and my guild was by no means absolute top end.</blockquote>eh1st level: 2-52nd level: 2-43rd level: 3-5average: 10fth 4mmis 6cmf 1ttr 2this is a total of 23 mobs when clearing all zones, reentry timer is in average 5 days, 23/5 = 4,6.no matter how fast you are, no matter how top end ub0r crazy good you are, there is no way you will kill more than an average of 4,6 nameds per day, funny you're talking about being half way through the tier and killing up to 20 nameds a day, i love it.stop making things up and shut the [Removed for Content] up.kthxbye.

g0thiC_iCe_cReaM

11-24-2007, 07:48 PM

<cite>Istar@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote>I dont mind it.. Though the thing i Fear is the Rares On Broker going up because of it, This will crush a big part of the player base ... yes Quests right now are giveing a ton of plat. Though the quests do end at some point, As well as, The Broker is player driven economy.... Meaning since quests are handing out X amount of plat, People will raise the Price of Rares to soak in the more plat.. Siliciate(SP?) Loam is a great example on my server.. people are pushing it 9p to sell. Its just not worth that lol. Masters are going for 50p the norm.. To some who are trying to sell them over 150p ... Just think EQ economy overall.. This could scale to being 2kpp things to be sold ;/ </blockquote>you should come to kith, i got all my t7 masters for between 5-10 plat <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />all of that will even out once the expansion has been out a while, the market will flood with rares and there won't be as high of a demand...it happened with DoF and KoS...it just takes a few months before there's a large supply b/c a lot people have upgraded already...i can't get anything lower than ad3 so far b/c ad1 and app4s aren't even close to an upgrade for me...i knew i'd end up waiting a good 5 or 6 months before i'd get a decent price for upgrades...the rare drop rate is high enough that i forsee the rares dropping dramatically in price within the next 3 months...i don't think most raiders are going to spend a whole lot of money on mastercrafted gear if at all <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> that is more of a non-raider market except for spell upgrades...so it's not going affect the prices significantly...the only reason it's so high right now is b/c there's a high demand with little supply, once the vast majority of people start getting upgraded, the prices will drop due to lack of demand and people dumping more rares into the market and competing on prices...

retro_guy

11-24-2007, 08:14 PM

Belaythien

11-24-2007, 08:17 PM

<cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>...They make alts, they twink the everloving crap out of them. Who are they getting the twink gear from? Casual players by and large... That is how the money gets redistributed in the game....Hey, if you're not a raider, you don't need raid gear. Quested gear, heroic drops and mastercrafted will serve you just fine. You don't need Master spells, click nodes until you get spell rares, harvest the raws, ...So lets see... gear - free from questing and drops. Spells - around 2p in fuel plus your time to harvest the rares and raws, if you don't know a tradeskiller this might climb to 5-6p....So what exactly is it that you need as a casual player in this game that isn't cheap or free to acquire if you put in the time casually? How is an influx of coin going to kill you since you don't seem to need a large amount of coin as it is.</blockquote>Do you actually know how arrogant you are? Non-raiding players should be happy about treasured stuff and adept spells? Casual players should cry in joy at the crumbs raiders leave behind when they twink? Those stupid normal players can go and pick a few stones and earn a pittance?You need the best equipment you can get to solo/group, too. Have you taken a look at the high end group content? SoF, Mistmoore, etc? Try going there with treasured/mastercrafted gear.Raiders get the best gear, master spells, status, AA experience, a lot of stuff normal players don't have access to and now it's all free at zero expense? Even better! Let's get them rich in the process! Giving raids even more money is just saying time of normal players is worth less.<cite>Garthan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> besides you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours, so i don't see this being game breaking, it's about on the level of money earned by a casual player</blockquote>Hey I know! Let's discuss a little longer and a solo quester can make 100 plat in 10 minutes at the pace these claims are going. Poor raiders getting left behind.Worst of all: the argument that quests reward so much money that it justifies money drops on raids is completely bogus. Until raiders can raid they run through the same quests, too. As quests are finite raiders get quests AND raids, whereas normal players only get quests. Claiming that quests reward such vast riches is just a flawed argument to defend more money for those who bring this argument.

retro_guy

11-24-2007, 08:23 PM

Keno

11-24-2007, 08:24 PM

have you been to any group instances yet? have you seen the insanely good fabled drops and quest rewards in group instances yet (and those are by no means rare)?oh right, raiders can do those group instances too, oh my gosh, now if you could just also raid, man that would be sweet.oh wait, you can, sorry your point is not valid.

Lasai

11-24-2007, 08:39 PM

Seems to me the discussion should be about the amount of plat dropping from epics, period.I don't freeking care actually, I'm far past any care at all regarding raiders and thier concerns. Fine if they get plat, fine if they don't.Having a frantic fit and justifying plat by pointing at non raiders getting a minor bone thrown at them for once isn't the way to address this. One time solo quest rewards are nothing compared to the life of an expansion, nor do they compare to repeatable plat farming of named over the life of an expansion.Just like the hissy thrown over leveling, Soloists have it good for a very short period of time in this expansion, once the quests have been done and the leveling completed, what then.Your argument should be why this Plat dropping is good/bad for the people doing it, Not by pointing your grubby little fingerpaint stained digits at soloers and screaming "but... but ...but ....THEY got something!!".I solo. I am fine with the gear raiders get, the master drops, the money, whatever. It's thier deal for doing that junk. However, don't justify needing something by pointing at a soloist and saying "No Fair". That is as stupid as me pointing at an EOF fabled set and screaming "No Fair".

g0thiC_iCe_cReaM

11-24-2007, 08:56 PM

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Garthan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>besides you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours, so i don't see this being game breaking, it's about on the level of money earned by a casual player</blockquote>Hey I know! Let's discuss a little longer and a solo quester can make 100 plat in 10 minutes at the pace these claims are going. Poor raiders getting left behind.Worst of all: the argument that quests reward so much money that it justifies money drops on raids is completely bogus. Until raiders can raid they run through the same quests, too. As quests are finite raiders get quests AND raids, whereas normal players only get quests. Claiming that quests reward such vast riches is just a flawed argument to defend more money for those who bring this argument.</blockquote>sure, i do the quests, fine, but i also now consume half my play time with raiding, so now the amount of time i quest is about half of what it was...unfortunately you seem to miss a few points i made prior, the fact that i can at times blow over 2 plat in one 4 hour stretch and make NO MONEY for my entire evening of play doing 1 raid zone, and others spending even more than that due to whatever it is they need to buy in ammo etc...get 3 bad runs in a week and i've just lost up to 10 plat if we've had a bad week...whereas if i were out doing the quests i would end up +10plat for the whole week...if i go out and farm instances etc, that's a little less, but i could probably rake in between 5-8 plat (provided my luck with the rng is ok)...if i spend the time to craft as well, that's another 2 or 3 plat...but that's if i don't bother to raid for that week, which some weeks i don't b/c i need to recover from my losses in the prior weeks...people shouldn't be peanalized b/c they want to play a particular way, where as in a week i blow 10 plat and have nothing to show for it, NOTHING AT ALL, that means, nothing dropped that entire week that i could use, or i did not roll high enough to win something...but yet i'm out 10 plat in repairs, potions etc...if i also take the time to do some quests during that week i'll make maybe 4 plat in quest rewards for the amount of time i have left over for questing, spread out over that week...i'm still out money...that goes on for a month and i'm seriously broke...so yes the arguement does hold water...perhaps you might want to discuss it without trying to make people sound like they're blowing things out of proportion, if you read what you quoted, you will see i said "you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours", this is a FACT....making a comment like "Hey I know! Let's discuss a little longer and a solo quester can make 100 plat in 10 minutes at the pace these claims are going. Poor raiders getting left behind." doesn't add anything to the conversation other than to try to make people mad...hyperbole is not going to help make a point...the first 3 days of the expansion i made 6 plat in quest rewards...not too bad for playing an hour or so a night AND stopping to harvest every node i saw and taking time out to poke around in kanor's...so yes there is the potential of making a decent amount of money in t7 and t8 questing...none of that was from loot, pure quest rewards...i just don't see this as game breaking or having much of an effect on the economy, the reason prices are so high right now is b/c there's a higher demand for stuff and some people with money will pay stupid prices to get that stuff...eventually it evens out...it happens EVERY expansion...

Gladiia

11-24-2007, 09:32 PM

Lookit, I'm just a casual raider, and I think it's about time there is a chance to see more plat raiding. Just in the KoS raiding scene it is so easy to spen a plat or two per raid (when you really try to use everything available to make a raid succeed). I can only imagine that for the next 2 or 3 months the hardcore raiding guilds are going to be spending 3 4 5 plat a raid (per person) not counting upgrades needed for outside of raids. an extra few plat per person is probably still going to be leaving people in debt for a while, and I think it is great that the people that stick to it will finally get a coin payout once they get to the point of succeeding at these zones.

Lairdragna

11-25-2007, 02:59 AM

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>...They make alts, they twink the everloving crap out of them. Who are they getting the twink gear from? Casual players by and large... That is how the money gets redistributed in the game....Hey, if you're not a raider, you don't need raid gear. Quested gear, heroic drops and mastercrafted will serve you just fine. You don't need Master spells, click nodes until you get spell rares, harvest the raws, ...So lets see... gear - free from questing and drops. Spells - around 2p in fuel plus your time to harvest the rares and raws, if you don't know a tradeskiller this might climb to 5-6p....So what exactly is it that you need as a casual player in this game that isn't cheap or free to acquire if you put in the time casually? How is an influx of coin going to kill you since you don't seem to need a large amount of coin as it is.</blockquote>Do you actually know how arrogant you are? Non-raiding players should be happy about treasured stuff and adept spells? Casual players should cry in joy at the crumbs raiders leave behind when they twink? Those stupid normal players can go and pick a few stones and earn a pittance?You need the best equipment you can get to solo/group, too. Have you taken a look at the high end group content? SoF, Mistmoore, etc? Try going there with treasured/mastercrafted gear.Raiders get the best gear, master spells, status, AA experience, a lot of stuff normal players don't have access to and now it's all free at zero expense? Even better! Let's get them rich in the process! Giving raids even more money is just saying time of normal players is worth less.<cite>Garthan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> besides you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours, so i don't see this being game breaking, it's about on the level of money earned by a casual player</blockquote>Hey I know! Let's discuss a little longer and a solo quester can make 100 plat in 10 minutes at the pace these claims are going. Poor raiders getting left behind.Worst of all: the argument that quests reward so much money that it justifies money drops on raids is completely bogus. Until raiders can raid they run through the same quests, too. As quests are finite raiders get quests AND raids, whereas normal players only get quests. Claiming that quests reward such vast riches is just a flawed argument to defend more money for those who bring this argument.</blockquote>Call me arrogant all you want... I was in Beta, I wish I could give you a detailed account of my conversations with the Devs, but we'll leave it at solo/group play was designed around treasured gear and adept 1s. If you have a mix of mastercrafted and adept 3s, you are ahead of the curve the Devs designed for solo and heroic play. That is not my opinion, that is the official development of tract of the game... deal with it.The fact of the matter is you can harvest all your rares and have better gear and spells than what the devs designed solo and heroic content around, and harvesting is FREE! The quest rewards are insane, I have friends who were not in EoF fabled, but had some of the best KoS fabled. Guess what, they are ditching those pieces for the treasured and legendary RoK quest rewards. Your arguments are completely hollow.In the past 72 hours I have harvested 7-8 incardine clusters, 4 rare pelts, more than a dozen mantrap roots, 6-7 fire emeralds, 3 silicate loams, 1 tynnonium cluster. Not to mention over 3,000 lichenclover roots that sold at 25s per, 1,000 pelts that sold for around 15s per 500 redwood that sold for 20s per. At the same time I got around 4 great earrings, 5 ancient rhino horns and 3 large burynai claws - all of which sold for 1p or more. Guess how many times I died? Once. Repair cost around 8g. So how much did I make not even questing or counting the trash drops? Around 2.5p for the incardine, 6p for the rare pelts, around 5p on the mantrap roots, kept the fire emeralds - value around 20p, gave two silicate loams away, traded one for two fire emeralds - value 20p, 5p for the tynnonium cluster... 3000 roots around 7.5p, 1.5p for the pelts and 75g for the redwood. So what was the grand total for harvesting? My calculations say around 80p profit AFTER the one death. Wow... talk about risk versus reward, maybe those raiders should complain about how much money I made!Get off your butt and work for things, your mentality screams "hand it to me." You can raid, if you want to and are willing to make the commitment of time and resources. The only thing stopping you is you. And until you spend 6-8 months doing the same raiding over and over before you gear out, don't talk about how it comes for free. Raiders face a lot of disappointment for that short moment of gratification when their gear drops and they finally win it.

Gladiia

11-25-2007, 07:07 AM

<cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>...They make alts, they twink the everloving crap out of them. Who are they getting the twink gear from? Casual players by and large... That is how the money gets redistributed in the game....Hey, if you're not a raider, you don't need raid gear. Quested gear, heroic drops and mastercrafted will serve you just fine. You don't need Master spells, click nodes until you get spell rares, harvest the raws, ...So lets see... gear - free from questing and drops. Spells - around 2p in fuel plus your time to harvest the rares and raws, if you don't know a tradeskiller this might climb to 5-6p....So what exactly is it that you need as a casual player in this game that isn't cheap or free to acquire if you put in the time casually? How is an influx of coin going to kill you since you don't seem to need a large amount of coin as it is.</blockquote>Do you actually know how arrogant you are? Non-raiding players should be happy about treasured stuff and adept spells? Casual players should cry in joy at the crumbs raiders leave behind when they twink? Those stupid normal players can go and pick a few stones and earn a pittance?You need the best equipment you can get to solo/group, too. Have you taken a look at the high end group content? SoF, Mistmoore, etc? Try going there with treasured/mastercrafted gear.Raiders get the best gear, master spells, status, AA experience, a lot of stuff normal players don't have access to and now it's all free at zero expense? Even better! Let's get them rich in the process! Giving raids even more money is just saying time of normal players is worth less.<cite>Garthan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>besides you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours, so i don't see this being game breaking, it's about on the level of money earned by a casual player</blockquote>Hey I know! Let's discuss a little longer and a solo quester can make 100 plat in 10 minutes at the pace these claims are going. Poor raiders getting left behind.Worst of all: the argument that quests reward so much money that it justifies money drops on raids is completely bogus. Until raiders can raid they run through the same quests, too. As quests are finite raiders get quests AND raids, whereas normal players only get quests. Claiming that quests reward such vast riches is just a flawed argument to defend more money for those who bring this argument.</blockquote>Call me arrogant all you want... I was in Beta, I wish I could give you a detailed account of my conversations with the Devs, but we'll leave it at solo/group play was designed around treasured gear and adept 1s. If you have a mix of mastercrafted and adept 3s, you are ahead of the curve the Devs designed for solo and heroic play. That is not my opinion, that is the official development of tract of the game... deal with it.The fact of the matter is you can harvest all your rares and have better gear and spells than what the devs designed solo and heroic content around, and harvesting is FREE! The quest rewards are insane, I have friends who were not in EoF fabled, but had some of the best KoS fabled. Guess what, they are ditching those pieces for the treasured and legendary RoK quest rewards. Your arguments are completely hollow.In the past 72 hours I have harvested 7-8 incardine clusters, 4 rare pelts, more than a dozen mantrap roots, 6-7 fire emeralds, 3 silicate loams, 1 tynnonium cluster. Not to mention over 3,000 lichenclover roots that sold at 25s per, 1,000 pelts that sold for around 15s per 500 redwood that sold for 20s per. At the same time I got around 4 great earrings, 5 ancient rhino horns and 3 large burynai claws - all of which sold for 1p or more. Guess how many times I died? Once. Repair cost around 8g. So how much did I make not even questing or counting the trash drops? Around 2.5p for the incardine, 6p for the rare pelts, around 5p on the mantrap roots, kept the fire emeralds - value around 20p, gave two silicate loams away, traded one for two fire emeralds - value 20p, 5p for the tynnonium cluster... 3000 roots around 7.5p, 1.5p for the pelts and 75g for the redwood. So what was the grand total for harvesting? My calculations say around 80p profit AFTER the one death. Wow... talk about risk versus reward, maybe those raiders should complain about how much money I made!Get off your butt and work for things, your mentality screams "hand it to me." You can raid, if you want to and are willing to make the commitment of time and resources. The only thing stopping you is you. And until you spend 6-8 months doing the same raiding over and over before you gear out, don't talk about how it comes for free. Raiders face a lot of disappointment for that short moment of gratification when their gear drops and they finally win it.</blockquote>yup. If you have mastercrafted and adept IIIs, you are ahead of the curve solo, and group-wise. Always been that way. And now its even easier to get that way as a solo player. I know, I solo a lot. Yeah, the quests are finite, and they are absolutely quick coin. But the coin keeps coming in, even without the quests. It always has. Except for the raiders - they previously could not raid and make coin at the same time - how much sense does that make? Any type of player should at least get the opportunity to make coin with there play style (seriously how many threads are there about balance?) The amount of coin it costs to partake in a given paly style (risk versus reward?) didnt take the proper stand before now - maybe it still doesn't. But hey, look at SOE - they are obviously working at fixing that, or the raiders would still be spending dozens of plat per raid as a loss while they figured out how to beat the easiest of the raid mobs.

Sunlei

11-25-2007, 10:02 AM

can we wait to remove the carrot untill after the holiday sales boost the eq2 population?

liveja

11-25-2007, 12:26 PM

<cite>Lasai wrote:</cite> <blockquote>once the quests have been done and the leveling completed, what then.</blockquote>That's your question to answer, not anyone else's.

Ama

11-25-2007, 02:19 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ? If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src=" width="15" height="15" />"></blockquote>Raiders also have -much- higher repair bills, especially when trying to figure out a new zone and it's quirks. For each item that drops, usually only 1 per "boss", there are 24 people vying to get it. In many raid guilds, there is no auto-split of coin. In many raid guilds, if no one on the raid can -directly- use the item, it gets put into the guild bank to be sold by the guild or whatnot. It might be the raid -guilds- that are getting rich, but in many many of those raid guilds, the individual members will be struggling to get their repair bills paid.</blockquote>if a named drops 25plat and that gets split between 24 people that's about 1plat per person. If a raid is good they will only wipe 1-3 times during a raid. However for others out there that arn't "Uber" we will wipe atleast 5-7 times. That 1 plat we earn can be used on a Mender bot to help us repair our equipment. However I will say that mobs should not be dropping over 24-25plat since that extra coin can seep into the market creating inflation. Right now 5 plat to some people is 5g which is a big problem.

uux

11-26-2007, 01:36 PM

Go to your nearest broker. Buy a 20 stack each of Expert's Trauma Remedy, Expert's Arcane Remedy, Expert's Noxious Remedy, and Expert's Elemental Remedy. That's only 4 commonly used consumables by raiders. Add in a 1000 tenderwood arrows and high end poisons. Do this every day for a week. Then come back here and tell me again it's not justified and you would be able to sustain that cost indefinately.

Zin`Car

11-26-2007, 01:49 PM

peopel choose how to enjoy their game. If employing a raiding guild to accomplish their goals, then so be it. why start a thread whining about it.I can just hear Aesop laughing about this thread now... "Sour Grapes!"

Finora

11-26-2007, 02:32 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>While the idea of Epics dropping plat is good its going to be a game breaker if it isnt looked at quickly.The hardcore raiding crowd frankly dont really need a huge influx of extra plat and that is what this is. In a very short time there are going to be guilds out there making litterally thousands of plat per week from simply killing epic content and thats just from plat in chests.Come on guys admit it Id like to know from any of the top guilds just how much you made in the last couple of days ? long before you have trivialised any of the content.The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ?If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Okay, not reading the whole thread because I don't think I could stomach it. I will reply to the OP though.Have you ever raided? Have you ever paid those lovely repair bills you get after a night raiding, particularly if it was new content for your guild? Raiding is quite a money sink. The scouty types have to pay for their poisons, everyone needs either repair kits or cash for the mender bot(s). Rangers get the extra expense of arrows. Everyone else has potions and what not they need. Raiding can be expensive, and you don't get much cash (or at least you didn't ) as drops. We don't raid tons, only about 2 nights a week but I see more masters dropping in regular groups than I ever have with raiding. I don't know about other guilds but no trade gear that isn't used by someone on the raid as an upgrade either goes to a useful alt, transmuted if someone would use the byproduct, or sold for guild funds. Not much money making it to the pockets of the raiders. Plat dropping from raid mobs will seriously not raise their income by a whole lot (unless these raid mobs in question are dropping thousands of plat at a time.)And even if the hardcore raiders do make a ton of cash, why would that make inflation go through the roof? Do you really think these fully fabled raiders will be willing to fork over 3 arms and a leg for some handcrafted gear? Of course not. They don't want handcrafted/mastercrafted/adept 1's. Most only want ad3's to fill in until they get their masters. They certainly don't want the treasured junk on the broker, they want more fabled, which they get via raiding, not trolling the broker.

phoenixshard

11-26-2007, 03:37 PM

<cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote>Call me arrogant all you want... I was in Beta, I wish I could give you a detailed account of my conversations with the Devs, but we'll leave it at solo/group play was designed around treasured gear and adept 1s. If you have a mix of mastercrafted and adept 3s, you are ahead of the curve the Devs designed for solo and heroic play. That is not my opinion, that is the official development of tract of the game... deal with it.</blockquote></blockquote>Just curious on why you can't give the detailed information on those conversations that you had. The NDA is now up, so why can't you reveal all of this detailed information?

Boldac

11-26-2007, 09:04 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>While the idea of Epics dropping plat is good its going to be a game breaker if it isnt looked at quickly.The hardcore raiding crowd frankly dont really need a huge influx of extra plat and that is what this is. In a very short time there are going to be guilds out there making litterally thousands of plat per week from simply killing epic content and thats just from plat in chests.Come on guys admit it Id like to know from any of the top guilds just how much you made in the last couple of days ? long before you have trivialised any of the content.The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ?If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>While I don't usually do this....which village did you escape from, because I fear some village, somewhere is without their idiot.First of all, the top end mobs are NOT dropping hundreds of plat. Secondly, the richest players in MMO's are NOT the raiders, they are the crafters. And third, have you raided any of the end game content?Just last night I spent nearly 2 of my massive bankroll of 5 plat on repairs. From what I've so far in live and while I was in beta, the cash that drops won't even cover the repair bills of an end game raider, let alone additional costs of potions, poisons, and other consumables.On top of that, raid zones have lockout timers on them, so at best you can hit the top end zones once a week.So let's use your hypothetical numbers. Raid guild "A" hits 4 end game zones a week, gaining 100pp from each boss. So that's 400pp divided 24 ways. That's 16.6 plat per person. With full t8 fabled it's going to roughly cost a minimum of 2 plat per night to repair. So that's 8 plat tied up in repair, making your gross income now 8.6 plat. Now, let's not forget potions/poisons/ammo/spell reagants/food/drink, easily 2pp on average per night, so there's another 8pp down the drain. Now you're down to 0.6 plat. Oh, and then of course there's always the spell's and ca's you need to purchase to ensure you bring the best possible (insert your class here) to the raid. That alone will cost you an excess of 50pp at the high end, unless you are extremely lucky. Heck, even if you craft all your own consumables, you still need to pay for fuels.Basically, what I'm trying to say, get your facts straight and worry about things that truly need to be fixed, instead of crying about things that have no bearing on the outcome of the game.

LoreLady

11-26-2007, 09:19 PM

There are quests that give virtually a plat for 2-3 quests now. In most EoF raids, your spending far more than you are getting.. The people who have 200+ plat in the bank, arent raiders I promise you. Personally, I am usually under 5p at any given time. I spend as much as I make in repair bills/poisons/potions.. And for raids, I get the good stuff.. So having a mob supply itself for raids is not a bad thing.

Pyra Shineflame

11-26-2007, 09:29 PM

Okay, first, to the person above me name calling is not exactly "condoned" you know.I can't believe I read this entire thread but I did and so:With lockout timers its not a constant flux of "uber" money. People have stated that it costs a lot to repair. In my mastercrafted/legendary it costs about 50g for repairs for T7. I would hate to think how much fabled T7 wearers would pay or even T8 wearers after some time. All of the consumbles and Masters to update would take the edge off of the remaining flux. Guild Halls...when they get implemented are probably going to cost a pretty penny and who is most likely to sink that much money into something to prove their "uberness?" The hardcore raiding guilds. It has already been stated that raiders like to twink alts. That costs money. Guild houses, money. Buying up status items...money. 3-4p per night is not that bad. I would farm Scaleborn and a bruiser friend of mine did that solo and made 18p that day in a few hours. It is not at all "game breaking" as with enough effort, even if the market inflates you could take care of yourself for yourself. If it *does* get bad, not saying it will at all, the only way you will suffer is if you are lazy.

lshbwg

11-27-2007, 04:00 AM

Hi,guys, I have read your posts,the most thing you are talk about are quests.I am not so familliar with this games,could you show me what are those quests ?In which expansion?In RoK ? It will be apperciate for your ideas.

Eugam

11-27-2007, 04:45 AM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>10 Hard lvls of questing from 70 to 80 is likely to make a player 50 maybe even 100p , in a couple of weeks I expect almost every top end raider will be making that per week (solely from epic plat drops) and I believe that would have a very negitive impact on the econemy, Dont you ?</blockquote>It doesnt really matter. It has always been that way after expansions and it will settle down as always. Adept I where 2 plat and are going down now to 20 gold which i consider to be normal. Same will happen to masters soonish. The only advantage hardcore raiders have is the fabled trash to transmute.

Malandrin

11-27-2007, 07:26 AM

<cite>Ohnoez@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Wow... thousands of plat? All I see in your post is someone that doesnt raid and is jealous. An Epic droppin 25p split between 24 peeps is so game breakin...</blockquote>Of course it is. Or you just kill 1 epic and no one else till the next expansion? there will be a huge impact in the economy if that happens. In the long term, when there is too much money to spend, and most of the drops are NO-TRADE, prices of the tradeable content go up like crazy. Only raiding people will be able to pay huge amounts of plat for whatever they want, even consumables (poisons, food, ammo...). Non raiding people won't be able to afford it.

Burnout

11-27-2007, 09:16 AM

ok - once again for all those with high resists against reality:t8.1, 3zones, 2 = single namedzone - 3day timert8.2, 2zones, 1 = single namedzone - 5day timertotal from t8.1 & t8.2 = ~18p/8days = 1.625p/daycombined with the repcosts of 55g+ for a full repair....non raider xyz doing a little harvesting and grp instance farming will easily beat those p by far. so, before you complain about raid platin - you should raid. and then you show me the tons of thousands of platin to make per week from raiding.

AinaFV

11-27-2007, 01:05 PM

<cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite> But here is the kicker, I live in kelethin and almost nobody came to my home to purchase, they instead used the broker so 20% of that money poofed from the game.</blockquote>This is why my stein of recollection takes me to Gfay's bartender...to spare myself 40% broker pain.

Domiuk

11-27-2007, 01:10 PM

First Tier: Easiest to Hardest------------------------------------------------------------------Zone: The Tomb of ThuugaGear needed: At least level 80 legendarySpells needed: Some Master I abilities.Zone: The Execution Throne RoomGear needed: At least level 80 legendarySpells needed: Some Master I abilities.Zone: The Protector's Realm (Sebilis Middle/Straight path from entrance)Gear needed: At least level 80 legendary, some fabled.Spells needed: Some Master I abilities.Second Tier: Easiest to Hardest ------------------------------------------------------------------Zone: Venril Sathir's LairGear needed: All level 80 legendary, some fabled.Spells needed: Some Master I abilities.Zone: Throne Room of the Overking (Chardok lower tower area)Gear needed: All level 80 legendary, some fabled.Spells needed: Some Master I abilities.Third Tier-----------------------------------------------------------------Zone: The Chamber of DestinyGear needed: Mostly Fabled.Spells needed: Some Master I abilities.Fourth Tier: Easiest to Hardest-----------------------------------------------------------------Zone: Veeshan's PeakGear needed: Mostly Fabled.Spells needed: Most Master I abilities.Zone: Trakanon's LairGear needed: All Fabled. Epic Weapon.Spells needed: Most Master I abilities.Correct me if im wrong but that looks a potential to have at least a similar number of Epic named mobs to what EOF released with and of course avatars.My understanding is that the first guilds have already hit Veeshans and that means that effectively all previous zones are now basically at "farm" status.Now once again Ill state I do not know for certain that every named is dropping 25p-50p BUT if they are and some of those instances are on 3 day lockouts thats a lot of named mobs dropping a decent amout of plat.It is NOT the casual raider this post was about , its the hardcore crowd who wipe the floor with this sort of content in short order that will be pulling in the big moneyI have stated several times. I dont know exactly how much is being dropped but I can easily see it passing 1k a week if there are 20 epics to kill and frankly I believe a single guild pulling 4-5k a month extra from what they did in the past is too much. (Of course even if its not 20 now it will be as they will add more raid content).Again ill ask , anybody from one of the top guilds care to say how much is really dropping and how much they are really making ?More than willing to be proved completely wrong and ill be quite happy if I am.

Domiuk

11-27-2007, 01:16 PM

Oh and pppplease with the "try raiding" comments.I raided EOF to a reasonible level and have a very good understanding of how much it really costs to raid. I am also fully aware of how easy it is to earn plat in the game. This is however about "new plat" not redistributed wealth.I also had 3 fully mastered/fabled characters that could wipe the floor of instance content because of that raiding , some people think thats reward enough without adding sums of plat as well.

PublicVoid

11-27-2007, 01:25 PM

Well people say "Try Raiding" because of your comments that your guild could kill up to 20 EoF epics in 4 hours. Quite a feat for a more casual guild when there were 23 of them in EoF total. Perhaps you are exagerating to make your point, which in fact detracts from it greatly and makes you seem on a crusade. Or perhaps you a re just trolling to try to keep money out of the hands of others, for fear it will drive up prices and you don't wnat to oput in the effort to keep up. I wonder what a guild like NPU spent on the AoM alone.

TuinalOfTheNexus

11-27-2007, 01:25 PM

Okay let's go with your very optimistic assumption of 1000pp/week in coin drops.Split 24 ways that's 41pp per person.Ignoring the mender costs they'll need to clear these zones the first time, and the ongoing mender costs (even the most hardcore raids will have a few people dead to AEs/aggro occasionally), and also ignoring the cost of consumables which only raiders generally use on a regular basis (mastercrafted potions & poisons, T8 ammo, temporary adornments, 12 min avoidance food/drink).It's still less than you'd pull in if instead of raiding you went and farmed solo mobs and sold the loot to a vendor (treasured items in skyfire go for 25gp/item, corpse loot can be up to 80gp).To draw a simple example, pawbuster dropped 66gp each. So it's equivalent to less than 3 treasured drops off solo mobs for plat. I'm sure if the 24 of us farmed solo mobs we'd pull the coin in way faster than it takes us to clear to the instance. It's quite simple to see this thread for what it is - an uninformed newbie with raider jealousy.

AdamWest007

11-27-2007, 01:27 PM

Didn't raiders use the high cost of repairs as the linchpin in their "risk vs. reward" argument for better gear?

Pyra Shineflame

11-27-2007, 01:33 PM

Never raided but I can atest to the amount of plat that a soloer can gain with a little effort. The OP's post sounds highly exaggerated and as such gets a little less credit than it would. If you raided everything and then expressed concerns, it would be more viable.But casual raiding 20 nameds in EoF? In one night?

Domiuk

11-27-2007, 01:40 PM

"I know that in EOF from about half way through the tier in a 4 hour raiding session we could kill anything from 5-20 raid named mobs and my guild was by no means absolute top end." My exact quote.Now you can read that as 5-20 raid named mobs in EOF OR as I meant it 5-20 raid named mobs as sadly I included labs/Lyceam etc however if the same rules had been applied why would these have not been dropping coin ? (T7 at the end must have had 50+ raid named mobs)but of course we all have to go for the "your full of [I cannot control my vocabulary]" type argument.There is no question that a raid of 24 well equipped players simply grinding for cash COULD make more money doing that , my objection is this way I feel it is simply handed to them.I am also not saying the mobs should NOT drop coin I simply think the amounts are too high. (too the last poster, I did not say we raided casual, we simply were not top end hard core)

wesblueeyes

11-27-2007, 01:55 PM

The 20 plat that drops outta the chests and yes it is 20 plat all the way down to maybe 13pp per chest split between 24 people is more in the way of allowing us raiders to pay our repair bill. Also think of this, many raiders only guess what...raid so therefore there are many who walk around with maybe 10pp if they are lucky. Sure there are plenty of exceptions to this, but a good majority will always fall into this catagory. Frankly the 100pp I have gained from solo questing is more unbalanced than the 2pp i might see from one instance.

Domiuk

11-27-2007, 02:06 PM

to be honest if the amounts that are dropping are closer to 15p-20p from x4s then I do not really have an issue.I had been led to believe the X4s were dropping closer to 50 and the X2s closer to 20 if that is not true then it probably is not a big issue unless the actual number of mobs rises too high.20 x say 17p doesnt look nearly so bad as 20 X 50p.

Kitsune286

11-27-2007, 02:48 PM

Well, my guild won't be hitting RoK mobs /too/ quickly, but I know alot of'm are in the 'none-too-rich' category. Though, I do not know if we would split that coin or bank it. Myself, if I'm using handcrafted munitions, I could easily spend a plat a night (if not more) with rare poisons and hc ammo.

Ristan

11-27-2007, 04:42 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>There is no question that a raid of 24 well equipped players simply grinding for cash COULD make more money doing that , my objection is this way I feel it is simply handed to them.</blockquote>Handed to raiders? I've been in a casual (2 night a week) raid guild for over a year. Hate to say it but "hard core raid guilds" already have stacks of cash, the mobs droping more just adds to the surplus. This will help the casual raiders who have members who can barely keep up with the bills. Been raiding for over a year, and my total plat I had for that year on adverage about 4p . Why you ask, when we have all these other ways of making plat? Becuase in T7 I paid 50gp repairs on a normal mender per night (and I am NOT totally fabled out). Thats 1p for weekend. Plus mastercrafted potions 2g per so x20 = 40gp per potion, there are 4 remedy potions, 4 purple potions, and intelligence/power potions so lets see...thats 10...10x40= 4p...these potions would last me anywhere from 2 to 4 raids.so far we are up to 6p for a weekend of raiding (2 nights). Plus you factor in spells before you get your masters, in eof you had stakes you had to buy for the raid mobs (2p for one and 1.50 ish for the other), or tunarian wolves bane 10p per pop, only get one pull with that sucker unless you could take down woushi (which we couldn't).Ok so now that we've established cost. (and I used to play a ranger but I won't add the cost of arrows at 3s a pop for 2k arrows)T8 = higher repair costs, potions cost more due to higher teir....who knwos what kind of items we will need.Raiders do not waltz into a raid zone poke at a mob and it's dead. it takes everyone working together, stratigy, and time to get everything in order....we spend time upgrading spells, equipment, ect....we put just as much time and effort into making our selves the best we can be as any solo or quest player....so don't say "plat is handed to us" that is bs....My guild hasn't started RoK yet....because we are all putting in our time to get upgraded and get levels before we start getting "handed" rewards. In RoK I've made more money selling trash drops (not even quest rewards since I am out of quests) than I ever did raiding.As for the whole argument that we get "gear" as well ...sure...got one named per zone in RoK for the starter zones...thats what 1 peice of gear....I have gone 3 months without getting anything out of a raid, but I still have to pay for potions, repairs ect. Just as you have to pay for them if you die soloing.If you want to "share the wealth" as you seem to think is droping, joing a raid and go raiding, and stop complaining that things aren't being "handed" to you.Gratz SOE this is one of your better changes <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Bloodfa

11-27-2007, 05:06 PM

I know just the coin I spend in poisons and a few countering potions in an evening of PvP can run a plat or two (last raid I was on was quite a while ago, and I'm not an avid raider), so how is this going to break the economy? This tier's stuff is expensive to replace & repair, I say save the scrutinize calls for things that really do need looking at.

kittypack

11-27-2007, 10:21 PM

greenmantle

11-27-2007, 10:51 PM

I do wonder at the balance, yes the quests give resonable payment but i have noticed mob drops, boxes,body parts and coins are a lot lower than previous expansions. Once you have completed the quests you can find end of income by which time the raid groups wil have trivialised the raid content and settle down to farm and be churning out the cash flow.

Burnout

11-28-2007, 05:12 AM

raidmobs in rok DON'T drop 50p, do you even care to read what people post???i love people that read something in some chatchans - from people knwoing nothing about rok raids too & start to run to the boards to emergency complain. how about verifying such infos before you start such threads? verifying by asking people that are actually really raiding in rok...and for those still complaining about the farm status - did you ever really inform yourself about the number of nameds in the rok raidzones? did you ever inform yourself on the timers the zones have? have you ever taken the time to brief calculate what plat income results from this data?no...you just hear something about some people getting something you don't have acces - and hoppa - flames off. raiders don't get rich from this - they just stop to get doomed to farm to even out the higher costs of active raiding...thanks soe for finally taking away the boring need to farm stupid instances just to afford reping full fabled gear.

zormik

11-28-2007, 07:53 AM

Ok, this is a silly discussions and i'll tell you why. First of all, only NAMEDS drop plat, second of all they don't drop 50p, they drop something like 15-25P.Now i'll tell you something i'm in a raiding guild, raiding 5 times a week. Before i was in a casual guild and i was FAR richer then i am now as a raider. In eof i never had more then 20P and i always struggled to farm enough money, just imagine, raiding 5 times a week makes you only loose money, that means you still have to farm outside of raiding times to be able to pay your bills.To give you an example, yes we get well geared but you keep wiping now and then, using a mender bot the costs go up to 1P for a full repair. You need tons of potions, poisons, better arrows, ... Raiding is insanely expensive i tell ya.On top of that we have to get equiped fast, we spend a lot of plat on masters, masters that drop from nameds or heroics that are gathered by the casual player, making that casual player rich. Why? we have to get those masters asap, prices are insane now so we blow all the funds we gathered in eof on getting equiped now. On top of that masters we found ourselfs all go to guild unless the master is not needed anymore.On top of that we get all our skills that are not at master at ad3. That money goes, yes, to the casual player who has time to harvest and craft.In T8 epic nameds drop plat, i tell you it doesn't cover our costs at all at this moment, why? We spend 5P/toon an evening easily raiding now because we have to beat new encounters, find out the strat, which means you wipe up to 20/30 times in one evening. After a while in the new expansion we will gain a little bit by the plat provided in the chest which only will help us covering our normal costs. What do you think those little extra funds we will gather will be used for? Yes, it will be used for the next expansion to cover for all the insane costs we will face again.I have seen both worlds and they both have their pros and cons.Imo it's fair to provide plat now in the chests from named epics, all other ways of gameplay wether it was solo or grouping always made you earn money. Raiding was the only real moneysink their was when it came to gameplay. Do you think it's fair we have to farm our cash next to our raidingtimes as well, hell i like to have a social life too now so i cheer at this decision of soe. And it's not out of balance at all. The richest people are not the raiders let me tell you that.And raiding is open to everybody as long as you are willing to spend the time/dedication/plat in it.

liveja

11-28-2007, 11:19 AM

Anyone wanna bet the OP has never raided anything, especially not since ROK went live?

Wytie

11-28-2007, 11:25 AM

Sir Longsword

11-28-2007, 11:49 AM

If epic names drop about 1p per person on the raid, then heroics should drop about 1p per person in the group. Everyone's happy...right?

PublicVoid

11-28-2007, 11:56 AM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>If epic names drop about 1p per person on the raid, then heroics should drop about 1p per person in the group. Everyone's happy...right?</blockquote>They don't drop 1p per person they drop between 50gp and 1pp per person. And you group you run an instance or dungeoun, in half the time it takes to do a raid instance you've already made either an upgrade or an average of 1pp per person. Mobs are dropping up to 8 gold now in places like chelsith. Add on to that the gear upgrades which are either sick, or sell for 70gold, and grouping is already bringing in two much cash.

Kizee

11-28-2007, 11:57 AM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>If epic names drop about 1p per person on the raid, then heroics should drop about 1p per person in the group. Everyone's happy...right?</blockquote><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

Gungo

11-28-2007, 12:07 PM

The Original poster does have a point. It is basic economics here. If all of a sudden there is a new large influx of coin inflation will undoubtably occur. if that is the case this begs the questions.If it is not broke don't fix it.Was this change needed?The truly hardcore raid guilds never had an issue with plat while raiding they could sell the extra tradable loot and masters, etc. (some even condone selling no-trade) these guilds could have anywhere from 25-100pp+ monthly splits. Who this helps out is the casual or middle of the pack raider. The raid guilds whose memebrs find it hard to repair after a night a raiding. The raid guilds who can raid all day 5 days a week and wipe alot w a repair bot wasitng several plat a day on repairs. Lets just hope the guild houses become a huge money pit because without some way of siphoning off the influxx of coin this games market will become way more inflated then it needs to be.

Sir Longsword

11-28-2007, 12:10 PM

<cite>PublicVoid wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>If epic names drop about 1p per person on the raid, then heroics should drop about 1p per person in the group. Everyone's happy...right?</blockquote>They don't drop 1p per person they drop between 50gp and 1pp per person. And you group you run an instance or dungeoun, in half the time it takes to do a raid instance you've already made either an upgrade or an average of 1pp per person. Mobs are dropping up to 8 gold now in places like chelsith. Add on to that the gear upgrades which are either sick, or sell for 70gold, and grouping is already bringing in two much cash. </blockquote>Group zones now take half the time of raid zones? Are there no more Chel'drak zones that take 5 minutes? Raid gear or the 'loot rights' don't sell for 50p or more? Please. It was all fine and dandy to get many, many, plat from killing a raid mob but if it's suggested an equal amount drops off of a heroic it's a crazy idea. I saw it coming. True story.

Kizee

11-28-2007, 12:32 PM

If people are worried about how fast cash is coming into the game from raids then they need to nerf the cash you get from quests and drops also.I have made over 100p so far just from doing the solo questlines.

Sir Longsword

11-28-2007, 12:52 PM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If people are worried about how fast cash is coming into the game from raids then they need to nerf the cash you get from quests and drops also.I have made over 100p so far just from doing the solo questlines.</blockquote>Didn't want to nerf raid plat, just wanted to get the same bonus on heroics. As for the solo quests you got a lot of plat because for once an xpac comes out with a lot of quests. When I finish the solo quest lines will I be able to go and do them again for more plat? No. Will you be able to go raid the same zones again and again for money? Yes. To reiterate, keep the raid money drop in and add heroic money drop of equal proportion. There is only one section of the community I ever see wanting to nerf things, and what I asked for was not a nerf.

Kizee

11-28-2007, 01:01 PM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If people are worried about how fast cash is coming into the game from raids then they need to nerf the cash you get from quests and drops also.I have made over 100p so far just from doing the solo questlines.</blockquote>Didn't want to nerf raid plat, just wanted to get the same bonus on heroics. As for the solo quests you got a lot of plat because for once an xpac comes out with a lot of quests. When I finish the solo quest lines will I be able to go and do them again for more plat? No. Will you be able to go raid the same zones again and again for money? Yes. To reiterate, keep the raid money drop in and add heroic money drop of equal proportion. There is only one section of the community I ever see wanting to nerf things, and what I asked for was not a nerf.</blockquote>You do get an equal portion. There are alot of cash and armor drops (sometimes master chests) that you can sell for alot of money. Heck....even the treasured and adept spells sell for 30+ gold each sometimes.The only way raiders could get cash pre kunark was to run instances to sell items. Now we won't have to since we will have an income doing what we like to do.Also, Soloers/groupers don't have the same expence as raiders do. Soloers/groupers don't have a 1+plat repair bill at the end of the night.

Sir Longsword

11-28-2007, 01:44 PM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If people are worried about how fast cash is coming into the game from raids then they need to nerf the cash you get from quests and drops also.I have made over 100p so far just from doing the solo questlines.</blockquote>Didn't want to nerf raid plat, just wanted to get the same bonus on heroics. As for the solo quests you got a lot of plat because for once an xpac comes out with a lot of quests. When I finish the solo quest lines will I be able to go and do them again for more plat? No. Will you be able to go raid the same zones again and again for money? Yes. To reiterate, keep the raid money drop in and add heroic money drop of equal proportion. There is only one section of the community I ever see wanting to nerf things, and what I asked for was not a nerf.</blockquote>You do get an equal portion. There are alot of cash and armor drops (sometimes master chests) that you can sell for alot of money. Heck....even the treasured and adept spells sell for 30+ gold each sometimes. Heck...even the fabled and master spells you throw on the board sell for 30p+ each.The only way raiders could get cash pre kunark was to run instances to sell items. Now we won't have to since we will have an income doing what we like to do. The only way I make money is to craft. So if the heroics dropped cash also I could do what I like to do, run instances, instead of at the crafting table to make money. Also, Soloers/groupers don't have the same expence as raiders do. Soloers/groupers don't have a 1+plat repair bill at the end of the night. I too have repair bills (not 1 plat though, it's a little cheaper to repair mastercrafted/legendary), use potions, ammo, etc. </blockquote>That goes both ways. I just don't get why having the money drop in equal proportions would be an issue.

Kizee

11-28-2007, 02:13 PM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote>If people are worried about how fast cash is coming into the game from raids then they need to nerf the cash you get from quests and drops also.I have made over 100p so far just from doing the solo questlines.</blockquote>Didn't want to nerf raid plat, just wanted to get the same bonus on heroics. As for the solo quests you got a lot of plat because for once an xpac comes out with a lot of quests. When I finish the solo quest lines will I be able to go and do them again for more plat? No. Will you be able to go raid the same zones again and again for money? Yes. To reiterate, keep the raid money drop in and add heroic money drop of equal proportion. There is only one section of the community I ever see wanting to nerf things, and what I asked for was not a nerf.</blockquote>You do get an equal portion. There are alot of cash and armor drops (sometimes master chests) that you can sell for alot of money. Heck....even the treasured and adept spells sell for 30+ gold each sometimes. Heck...even the fabled and master spells you throw on the board sell for 30p+ each.The only way raiders could get cash pre kunark was to run instances to sell items. Now we won't have to since we will have an income doing what we like to do. The only way I make money is to craft. So if the heroics dropped cash also I could do what I like to do, run instances, instead of at the crafting table to make money. Also, Soloers/groupers don't have the same expence as raiders do. Soloers/groupers don't have a 1+plat repair bill at the end of the night. I too have repair bills (not 1 plat though, it's a little cheaper to repair mastercrafted/legendary), use potions, ammo, etc. </blockquote>That goes both ways. I just don't get why having the money drop in equal proportions would be an issue. </blockquote>Because it already does drop in equal proportions....except heroic instances drop it in sell loot instead of straight plat.What masters? I have seen more masters drop off solo/heroic trash in this expansion than on raid zone named.

Sir Longsword

11-28-2007, 02:25 PM

<cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because it already does drop in equal proportions....except heroic instances drop it in sell loot instead of straight plat.What masters? I have seen more masters drop off solo/heroic trash in this expansion than on raid zone named.</blockquote>Raids zones don't produce sell loot now?

PublicVoid

11-28-2007, 02:28 PM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>That goes both ways. I just don't get why having the money drop in equal proportions would be an issue. </blockquote>The arguement is, and this for most Raiding guilds not the top 5%, that you are making money grouping or soloing commensurate to your needs. And if you are a particulary efficient group or solo-er you can make several times more than your supply and repair needs for your play session.A good night of raiding for the majority of raiding would be on new content, say a night in Veeshan's peak. Each raider in full EOF fabled is paying around 55 gold for a full repair. For an entire raid thats over 13 plat. When geared up in T8 Fabled you are most likely looking at 90gold to a plat per person, add on the extra cost of using a mender bot and you are talking about close to 30 plat for a full raid mend. So in the months it will take most guilds to get through VP this is going to be the constant case, wiping over and over, and repairing.

bryldan

11-28-2007, 02:48 PM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because it already does drop in equal proportions....except heroic instances drop it in sell loot instead of straight plat.What masters? I have seen more masters drop off solo/heroic trash in this expansion than on raid zone named.</blockquote>Raids zones don't produce sell loot now? </blockquote>Not for the raider but only for the guild. Raiders are usually left with nothing but expenses. The masters always goes for the guild whoever needs and if no one needs well then its sold and the money does not go to you but to the guild bank. As for items i really do not know many guilds will give that nice plate armor that just droped to a caster so that he could sell it on the broker for himself......

bryldan

11-28-2007, 02:50 PM

<cite>PublicVoid wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>That goes both ways. I just don't get why having the money drop in equal proportions would be an issue. </blockquote>The arguement is, and this for most Raiding guilds not the top 5%, that you are making money grouping or soloing commensurate to your needs. And if you are a particulary efficient group or solo-er you can make several times more than your supply and repair needs for your play session.A good night of raiding for the majority of raiding would be on new content, say a night in Veeshan's peak. Each raider in full EOF fabled is paying around 55 gold for a full repair. For an entire raid thats over 13 plat. When geared up in T8 Fabled you are most likely looking at 90gold to a plat per person, add on the extra cost of using a mender bot and you are talking about close to 30 plat for a full raid mend. So in the months it will take most guilds to get through VP this is going to be the constant case, wiping over and over, and repairing. </blockquote>Thats all you spend??? Full repairs are a lot more than that in full EOF gear and im not even talking about if you have to use the mender bot in which case its pretty much dbl that.

Khurghan

11-28-2007, 02:54 PM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because it already does drop in equal proportions....except heroic instances drop it in sell loot instead of straight plat.What masters? I have seen more masters drop off solo/heroic trash in this expansion than on raid zone named.</blockquote>Raids zones don't produce sell loot now? </blockquote>I guess it depends on how many non-raiders are going to be flagged for access to the later raid zones (the ones with the good loot).As for the whole waaaaaa raids mobs are dropping plat argument:-While I agree that in the long term this amount of plat dropping from farm mobs will probably be a bad thing, come and pay my repair bill for the first couple of months along with the bills for my consumables and a full set of guardian masters and then come and [Removed for Content] on the forums.

PublicVoid

11-28-2007, 02:55 PM

<cite>bryldan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>PublicVoid wrote:</cite>Thats all you spend??? Full repairs are a lot more than that in full EOF gear and im not even talking about if you have to use the mender bot in which case its pretty much dbl that.</blockquote>I was trying to use real numbers and stay on the conservative side. But the point is still valid. Wiping to at least a full repair everynight more than likely tow full repairs a night, with mendor bot proces for at least one full repair, and getting 2-3 named kills out of that time you will just about break even if they drop a plat each. For most guilds I am assuming VP is never going to be on full farm status ie firstpull, no wipes. And will be repairing constantly till the next expansion.

Sir Longsword

11-28-2007, 03:04 PM

<cite>Khurghan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because it already does drop in equal proportions....except heroic instances drop it in sell loot instead of straight plat.What masters? I have seen more masters drop off solo/heroic trash in this expansion than on raid zone named.</blockquote>Raids zones don't produce sell loot now? </blockquote>I guess it depends on how many non-raiders are going to be flagged for access to the later raid zones (the ones with the good loot).As for the whole waaaaaa raids mobs are dropping plat argument:-While I agree that in the long term this amount of plat dropping from farm mobs will probably be a bad thing, come and pay my repair bill for the first couple of months along with the bills for my consumables and a full set of guardian masters and then come and [I cannot control my vocabulary] on the forums.</blockquote>The only waaaaaaaa I see is the complaints about heroic namers dropping plat and repair bills. I didn't say take it away from the raid mobs.

KBern

11-28-2007, 03:13 PM

As has been said, heroic content AND solo content already have cash provided to the players, and at a much better ratio of competition for the loot, and the amount you can kill in a small group or even solo in many cases.There are not many basic items for raiders to sell for cash after the raid...almost nil. Those that do drop go into the guild coffers in most cases.The one poster says "When I finish the solo quest lines will I be able to go and do them again for more plat? No. Will you be able to go raid the same zones again and again for money? Yes. "Well the same people who raid cannot do those quests either, and YOU can choose to raid, but you choose not to. You have the same exact access to this plat, + the group and solo gained rewards.Just because raiders can get some PP now from raid mobs doesnt mean anything more needs to be added to other parts of the game. You can simply choose to change your playstyle to raid now and again, or not, up to you.If a crafter makes money (regular crafter, transmuter, tinkerer) and I cannot, I dont ask for some change to fit into my playstyle to reward me with equal compensation.I either take up crafting or I dont....same as benefits from raiding.

Khurghan

11-28-2007, 03:25 PM

<cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Khurghan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Kizee@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>Because it already does drop in equal proportions....except heroic instances drop it in sell loot instead of straight plat.What masters? I have seen more masters drop off solo/heroic trash in this expansion than on raid zone named.</blockquote>Raids zones don't produce sell loot now? </blockquote>I guess it depends on how many non-raiders are going to be flagged for access to the later raid zones (the ones with the good loot).As for the whole waaaaaa raids mobs are dropping plat argument:-While I agree that in the long term this amount of plat dropping from farm mobs will probably be a bad thing, come and pay my repair bill for the first couple of months along with the bills for my consumables and a full set of guardian masters and then come and [I cannot control my vocabulary] on the forums.</blockquote>The only waaaaaaaa I see is the complaints about heroic namers dropping plat and repair bills. I didn't say take it away from the raid mobs. </blockquote>I didn't say you did <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> - my post was two seperate statments the first was a response to your comment about sellable loot , the second was to do with the thread as a whole and in no way related to you or you post hence the reason why I separated it from the preceding text with the words "As for the whole waaaaaaa raids mobs are dropping plat argument"

Ristan

11-28-2007, 03:28 PM

So. You want heroics to drop plat.Epic x4 raid mob is alot harder than a heroic name that I can Lifeburn in 30 seconds.Most heroic named drop loot that will go to one of 6 members for wearing or SELLING. Most groups can do instances every night, where raid zones have lock out timers of 3-5 days.So 6 group members, go into Charasis - vaults - kill 4 named, thats 4p each. Also the trash in there drops 20g or so items...but lets just stick to mobs droping plat.So those 6 group members hit that zone (18 hour lock out) every night for a week. 28p per person. Plus each member got some loot to sell for 25+ gold...since there are 4 named in there, or to wear...4x7 = 28 peices of loot.now the raider goes into a raid zone.(going to use the teir one raid zones) there are 3 named droping anywhere from 15-25 p. but to make it easy lets say each one drops 24 plat, 1 per person.There is 1 named in each teir one zone with a 3 day lock out. A guild goes in and does all 3 teir 1 raid zones...they are now locked out for 3 days. They go back the same week and do it again, another 3 days.Each raider, walks out of the raid zone with 6p. There is only 6 piecies of loot to spread among 24 people. So 18 people walk out with 6p, the other 6 walk out with 6p and 1 peice of gear.Groups: 28p per person with 4 loots on adverageRaids: 6p per person with 0 loot unless your one of the lucky 6.Thats why heroic mobs DONT drop plat.Not to mention raiders will wipe more than your adverage group for a higher repair bill, they must bring more supplies (potions/arrows/repairkits/bots) to a raid than the adverage group.This is a good change.Sure your raider could go into a group zone and do the same thing....so then your wanting plat to drop on heroic and raid mobs and give them even more money....sorry that idea doesn't fly with me.And I'd also like to say, yes the quests are not redoable...so you make 100plat on the quests. Some people have 7-8 level 70s...thats 700 plat....dang I should have leveled more toons....before I started raiding.

Gaige

11-28-2007, 03:32 PM

<cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>Again ill ask , anybody from one of the top guilds care to say how much is really dropping and how much they are really making ?More than willing to be proved completely wrong and ill be quite happy if I am.</blockquote>My guild is in VP. The most coin I've seen in a single chest is 36pp, the least is 18pp. So I'd say I average about 90gp per named kill. We haven't gotten any plat from trash.In T1 there are 8 named on a 3 day lockout, in T2 there are 7 named on a 3 day lockout, in T3 there is 1 named on a 3 day lockout, and in T4 there are I believe 13 named on 4 day lockouts.Obviously we haven't killed any contested. I don't see us making "thousands of plat a week" from raiding. Even when its all on farm status. At the most I can see maybe making 30pp a week from instances - that is if we continue to farm T1 ~ T3 for a long time, which I doubt because there aren't many upgrades for us in those zones already and it'll only get worse.If anything is "broken" its the two x2s in Kunzar awarding roughly 20pp per kill. They spawn fast and can already be one grouped. A pickup raid of 12 in T8 quested legendary can kill them and be awarded 2pp for their efforts. The ability to farm coin from those two mobs is way out of line when compared to real raiding. If you want to complain, complain about that. However, that'd be taking plat from yourself, as I'm sure you and some friends could kill those two and make a quick 4pp.So, from first hand experience, your claims of "thousands of plat a week" are greatly exaggerated. I make about enough a night to cover what I spend on potions, poisons, arrows and crap. Most of my plat comes from farming heroic zones and crafting, and our guild split - as it always has. <cite>Sir Longsword wrote:</cite><blockquote>The only waaaaaaaa I see is the complaints about heroic namers dropping plat and repair bills. I didn't say take it away from the raid mobs. </blockquote>Sure I have no problem with that. They can implement that change the same time they place heroic named/instances on 3 day + lockouts.

Domiuk

11-28-2007, 07:59 PM

Thank you Gaige for the clear answer.As I have already stated on this thread that the amount of coin dropped is less than I first thought is good news. (based incidentally much on those X2s dropping in excess of 20p a time, and reports on flames that mobs in veeshans drop as much as 50p) However it still seems an awful lot of plat , if I read T1 and T2 correctly that by all accounts are not uber hard , thats 30 mobs per 6 days for those that wanted to farm them. 30 mobs at even just 18p a time is still 540p a week a not insignificant amount, not quite as bad as I first feared but still quite a lot. Even worse might we see peeps 3 or even 2 grouping these zones in a couple of months ? You broke them in little over a week almost certainly still in mostly T7 fabled.Again ill state I dont see any good reason for the mobs NOT to drop coin its simply the amount.

Gaige

11-28-2007, 08:22 PM

T1 T2 and T3 combined feature like 17 named, not 30. Also I doubt many guilds will ever clear VP in one day, so that is something to consider also. I think its fine as is.

Xephier

11-28-2007, 10:13 PM

<cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ?If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>Raiders also have -much- higher repair bills, especially when trying to figure out a new zone and it's quirks. For each item that drops, usually only 1 per "boss", there are 24 people vying to get it. In many raid guilds, there is no auto-split of coin. In many raid guilds, if no one on the raid can -directly- use the item, it gets put into the guild bank to be sold by the guild or whatnot. It might be the raid -guilds- that are getting rich, but in many many of those raid guilds, the individual members will be struggling to get their repair bills paid.</blockquote>hardcore raidguilds make enough money off selling the fabled they dont need to poor saps who dont raid/cant raid due to work/kids .etc for mind blowing amounts of plat, that should cover peoples repair bills should it not? besides, if people would actualy adv and solo outside of raiding, then they could pay off their repair bills easily unless they are horrid at soloing, which if you are suited out in raidgear/masters and know your class, is just sad.. seems to me like people in raidguilds do too much whining honestly, WAH im wearing the best gear in the game and have to pay to repair it... cry me a Fin river, if guilds like NPU on the guk server gain that kinda plat from raids, it is likely to break the market, cuz the more people who can afford to pay insane prices on stuff, the higher the prices will go, cuz as everyone says 'it's worth as much as people will pay..' and i dont find it fair if raidguilds get an advantage in the game over everyone who wants to sit back and play it casually, and people who make bloody ignorant comments like, 'oh he's just jealous cuz he doesn't raid' well maybe he just doesnt want to raid, ever think of that... raiding should be an option, not something that's forced.

Gnevil

11-28-2007, 10:23 PM

<cite>Belaythien wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Corsica@Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>...They make alts, they twink the everloving crap out of them. Who are they getting the twink gear from? Casual players by and large... That is how the money gets redistributed in the game....Hey, if you're not a raider, you don't need raid gear. Quested gear, heroic drops and mastercrafted will serve you just fine. You don't need Master spells, click nodes until you get spell rares, harvest the raws, ...So lets see... gear - free from questing and drops. Spells - around 2p in fuel plus your time to harvest the rares and raws, if you don't know a tradeskiller this might climb to 5-6p....So what exactly is it that you need as a casual player in this game that isn't cheap or free to acquire if you put in the time casually? How is an influx of coin going to kill you since you don't seem to need a large amount of coin as it is.</blockquote>Do you actually know how arrogant you are? Non-raiding players should be happy about treasured stuff and adept spells? Casual players should cry in joy at the crumbs raiders leave behind when they twink? Those stupid normal players can go and pick a few stones and earn a pittance?You need the best equipment you can get to solo/group, too. Have you taken a look at the high end group content? SoF, Mistmoore, etc? Try going there with treasured/mastercrafted gear.Raiders get the best gear, master spells, status, AA experience, a lot of stuff normal players don't have access to and now it's all free at zero expense? Even better! Let's get them rich in the process! Giving raids even more money is just saying time of normal players is worth less.<cite>Garthan wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>besides you can make 5 plat just questing t7 and t8 in 2 hours, so i don't see this being game breaking, it's about on the level of money earned by a casual player</blockquote>Hey I know! Let's discuss a little longer and a solo quester can make 100 plat in 10 minutes at the pace these claims are going. Poor raiders getting left behind.Worst of all: the argument that quests reward so much money that it justifies money drops on raids is completely bogus. Until raiders can raid they run through the same quests, too. As quests are finite raiders get quests AND raids, whereas normal players only get quests. Claiming that quests reward such vast riches is just a flawed argument to defend more money for those who bring this argument.</blockquote>OMG are you kidding me. I am both a hardcore raider and a alt aholic. I have 1 raid toon, and 5 level 70 alts and 6 tradeskills. Thats at a ton of stuff to support. Do you think raiding gives me any money what so ever? Not a penny. We can only bid on stuff we can equip. Anything not useable by our raid is muted, or sold on broker for raid items needed, stakes scales ect. I work my [Removed for Content] off to keep my toon equiped with the best potions, stat foods and drinks totems and spells. Does my guild buy these for me? No they don't. I raid up to 5 times a week, we raid daily but I don't always make every raid, I spent on average a plat per day to raid, grandmaster potions and such get damned expensive to use. Repairs are always a money sink. Did my guild give me my masters, so far one and one only and it cost me dkp which could have been spent on a gear drop instead. All masters I have gotten for tier 7 were bought by me after grinding away at nodes, tradeskills and vendor items. I rarely have more then 10p in my bank, I give most drops I find in dungeons to my friends who don't get to raid, or they are given to one of my alts. So most of my money comes from shiny's and rares, some crafting for peeps that I don't know. The occasional I got damned lucky and won a master in a dungeon that no one in the group needed and no one I know needed. So I sold it for about 75% of what the market demand is. I am now a 79th mystic, I am busting my [Removed for Content] to hit 80th. I have 40p+ in the bank, I would have more but every single Item that is tradeable has gone to my muter to level him up. But hey I have 40p and I am looking forward to raiding.What do I get from being in a raid guild, besides seeing end game content I get a chance at some of the best gear in the game. I only raid on one toon. My alts I make better money on doing instances and questing. My alts support my main not the other way around. My guid is on the top 100 wealthiest, I would love to see some of that money. Now that we will be getting cash drops in raids maybe I will finally have money instead of wondering how long I will have to go sleepless to support my raid habit. Yes my mystic is decked out in some killer gear, but I worked my [Removed for Content] off to get it and any one else that wants it can work for it too...Who do you think raiders and raid guilds buy all those masters from? The player base at large. Jeezus give me a break this is not gonna break the game, the richest guilds are still gonna be rich and the rest will just be what they have always been. This goes for the player population at large, there are those that know how to make money, are super good at getting rares ect ... and then there are those that need to come here an whine. As to doing things like unrest and mmc and such my ranger goes in mastercrafted, quested, legendary gear all the time. He has exactly 3 masters and all adept 3 skills. One piece of fabled gear, the Raincaller a quested bow. I survive very nicely thank you very much.

Gnevil

11-28-2007, 10:37 PM

<cite>lazarus104 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ? If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" width="15" height="15" />" /></blockquote>Raiders also have -much- higher repair bills, especially when trying to figure out a new zone and it's quirks. For each item that drops, usually only 1 per "boss", there are 24 people vying to get it. In many raid guilds, there is no auto-split of coin. In many raid guilds, if no one on the raid can -directly- use the item, it gets put into the guild bank to be sold by the guild or whatnot. It might be the raid -guilds- that are getting rich, but in many many of those raid guilds, the individual members will be struggling to get their repair bills paid.</blockquote>hardcore raidguilds make enough money off selling the fabled they dont need to poor saps who dont raid/cant raid due to work/kids .etc for mind blowing amounts of plat, that should cover peoples repair bills should it not? besides, if people would actualy adv and solo outside of raiding, then they could pay off their repair bills easily unless they are horrid at soloing, which if you are suited out in raidgear/masters and know your class, is just sad.. seems to me like people in raidguilds do too much whining honestly, WAH im wearing the best gear in the game and have to pay to repair it... cry me a Fin river, if guilds like NPU on the guk server gain that kinda plat from raids, it is likely to break the market, cuz the more people who can afford to pay insane prices on stuff, the higher the prices will go, cuz as everyone says 'it's worth as much as people will pay..' and i dont find it fair if raidguilds get an advantage in the game over everyone who wants to sit back and play it casually, and people who make bloody ignorant comments like, 'oh he's just jealous cuz he doesn't raid' well maybe he just doesnt want to raid, ever think of that... raiding should be an option, not something that's forced.</blockquote>Ok you make the point nicely. Cry me a river raid guild. You are a casual player seriously why do you find it important to slam raiders. This will not effect you in the least. The expensive stuff on the broker is going to be expensive no matter what. If its fabled do you think raiders are buying it? Not most of the time I can assure you, at least not for their mains. No it's bought by the casual player that wants the best, but absolutely refuses to raid cause he doesn't have time he has a life ect. I have a life I raid 3 hours per day, we start raiding Rok next week, thus will endeth my play time. I will get one day a week to level my alts and tradeskill. The rest of the days I am on will be raiding and raiding only. That is my choice, but because of my choice I will see the end game content and the best gear. How is this unfair? Does everyone in RL (omg that real life) drive top of the line cars and live in mansions? I think not. We all have choices and only you can decide whats important for you. The gear is there for all to get, you just have to work for it. It's really that simple. I laugh at peeps that complain about raid guilds selling loot rights to gear. If people will pay it, why not they earned it. And again that rarely goes to the raiders it goes to the guild leaders and bank for other stuff.

Iseabeil

11-29-2007, 12:34 AM

<cite>lazarus104 wrote:</cite><blockquote>hardcore raidguilds make enough money off selling the fabled they dont need to poor saps who dont raid/cant raid due to work/kids .etc for mind blowing amounts of plat, that should cover peoples repair bills should it not? besides, if people would actualy adv and solo outside of raiding, then they could pay off their repair bills easily unless they are horrid at soloing, which if you are suited out in raidgear/masters and know your class, is just sad.. seems to me like people in raidguilds do too much whining honestly, WAH im wearing the best gear in the game and have to pay to repair it... cry me a Fin river, if guilds like NPU on the guk server gain that kinda plat from raids, it is likely to break the market, cuz the more people who can afford to pay insane prices on stuff, the higher the prices will go, cuz as everyone says 'it's worth as much as people will pay..' and i dont find it fair if raidguilds get an advantage in the game over everyone who wants to sit back and play it casually, and people who make bloody ignorant comments like, 'oh he's just jealous cuz he doesn't raid' well maybe he just doesnt want to raid, ever think of that... raiding should be an option, not something that's forced.</blockquote>So, soloing and grouping should not be an option whilst raiding should be? Dont get me wrong, I dont think raiding should be forced upon people, but neither should really any playstyle, be it crafting, soloing, grouping or raiding. You already have to either solo, group or both to be able to raid, should you have to do it to be able to continue raiding?

Kizee

11-29-2007, 12:49 AM

<cite>lazarus104 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Rijacki wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Domiuk wrote:</cite><blockquote>The likes of 150p per night split 24 ways may not seem much just now but when you bear in mind raiders will get more masters as drops and no trade fabled the raider will become super wealthy very very quickly , surely there is no balance to this ?If every hard core raider makes 50 plat a week just from coin drops while raiding inflation will go through the roof <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>Raiders also have -much- higher repair bills, especially when trying to figure out a new zone and it's quirks. For each item that drops, usually only 1 per "boss", there are 24 people vying to get it. In many raid guilds, there is no auto-split of coin. In many raid guilds, if no one on the raid can -directly- use the item, it gets put into the guild bank to be sold by the guild or whatnot. It might be the raid -guilds- that are getting rich, but in many many of those raid guilds, the individual members will be struggling to get their repair bills paid.</blockquote>hardcore raidguilds make enough money off selling the fabled they dont need to poor saps who dont raid/cant raid due to work/kids .etc for mind blowing amounts of plat, that should cover peoples repair bills should it not? besides, if people would actualy adv and solo outside of raiding, then they could pay off their repair bills easily unless they are horrid at soloing, which if you are suited out in raidgear/masters and know your class, is just sad.. seems to me like people in raidguilds do too much whining honestly, WAH im wearing the best gear in the game and have to pay to repair it... cry me a Fin river, if guilds like NPU on the guk server gain that kinda plat from raids, it is likely to break the market, cuz the more people who can afford to pay insane prices on stuff, the higher the prices will go, cuz as everyone says 'it's worth as much as people will pay..' and i dont find it fair if raidguilds get an advantage in the game over everyone who wants to sit back and play it casually, and people who make bloody ignorant comments like, 'oh he's just jealous cuz he doesn't raid' well maybe he just doesnt want to raid, ever think of that... raiding should be an option, not something that's forced.</blockquote>1.) Not all raid guilds give members a split.2.) It would be nice to get plat at something i like to do instead of trying to solo stuff (hello...templar can't solo fast at all)3.) Most people I know that are filthy rich are NOT from raid guilds....they are crafters or shiney/harvesters.

thrdeye

11-29-2007, 11:55 AM

<blockquote><cite>lshbwg wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,guys, I have read your posts,the most thing you are talk about are quests.I am not so familliar with this games,could you show me what are those quests ?In which expansion?In RoK ? It will be apperciate for your ideas.</blockquote></blockquote>REad it carefully!! yep that sound like a plat farmer fishing for so easy mone to sell...once them farmers find out about all the quest and names that are soloable and bring them wizzy to rok... things gonna get ugly... i can see it now bot groups running all over the place doing them simple quest with mages.. and making bank off it... and when they discore the Dracnid suit.. them rares gonna be all over the market.. but i beleive sony is wait for this to happen.. and will nerf that suit at that point.. why.. SONY IS GIVING US A TON OF PLAT.. to combat the plat sellers.. we are getting so much money in game atm that nobody should have to buy from them.. and they arnt nerfing the suit yet bacuase really players are benefiting form it.. when the sellers start.. that will end it..i believe sony just just hoping that we keep making money in game for long enough for most of the big site to step away from everquest.. but dont think it gonna work out myself..

Gladiia

11-29-2007, 12:07 PM

Gorhauth

11-29-2007, 01:39 PM

<cite>lazarus104 wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>hardcore raidguilds make enough money off selling the fabled they dont need to poor saps who dont raid/cant raid due to work/kids .etc for mind blowing amounts of plat, that should cover peoples repair bills should it not? besides, if people would actualy adv and solo outside of raiding, then they could pay off their repair bills easily unless they are horrid at soloing, which if you are suited out in raidgear/masters and know your class, is just sad.. seems to me like people in raidguilds do too much whining honestly, WAH im wearing the best gear in the game and have to pay to repair it... cry me a Fin river, if guilds like NPU on the guk server gain that kinda plat from raids, it is likely to break the market, cuz the more people who can afford to pay insane prices on stuff, the higher the prices will go, cuz as everyone says 'it's worth as much as people will pay..' and i dont find it fair if raidguilds get an advantage in the game over everyone who wants to sit back and play it casually, and people who make bloody ignorant comments like, 'oh he's just jealous cuz he doesn't raid' well maybe he just doesnt want to raid, ever think of that... raiding should be an option, not something that's forced.</blockquote>I'm one of the poor saps that has limited time to play because of work, family, friends, and responsibilities. I choose to spend the time I have in game raiding. That means I don't have time to solo/adventure outside of raiding once I get to raiding level.Why should raiding be an option for people, but soloing/grouping required? If somebody doesn't have time to do all three, shouldn't they be able to do which they choose without having any of the other styles forced on them?As for plat dropping from the raid mobs, my split from the X2 was 1.9p. The gold cockatrice feather I found on the way there sold for 5p. Which would you choose?

Jehannum

11-29-2007, 02:02 PM

<cite>thrdeye wrote:</cite><blockquote><blockquote><cite>lshbwg wrote:</cite><blockquote>Hi,guys, I have read your posts,the most thing you are talk about are quests.I am not so familliar with this games,could you show me what are those quests ?In which expansion?In RoK ? It will be apperciate for your ideas.</blockquote></blockquote>REad it carefully!! yep that sound like a plat farmer fishing for so easy mone to sell...once them farmers find out about all the quest and names that are soloable and bring them wizzy to rok... things gonna get ugly... i can see it now bot groups running all over the place doing them simple quest with mages.. and making bank off it... and when they discore the Dracnid suit.. them rares gonna be all over the market.. but i beleive sony is wait for this to happen.. and will nerf that suit at that point.. why.. SONY IS GIVING US A TON OF PLAT.. to combat the plat sellers.. we are getting so much money in game atm that nobody should have to buy from them.. and they arnt nerfing the suit yet bacuase really players are benefiting form it.. when the sellers start.. that will end it..i believe sony just just hoping that we keep making money in game for long enough for most of the big site to step away from everquest.. but dont think it gonna work out myself..</blockquote>1. I'd hope that the difficulties involved with the type of character those guys usually play will hose them. Adds, resists, and solo mobs which, if they get a good strike, can one-shot a clothy (or hit-stun-kill, etc) may help.2. The drachnid thing is already being rampantly exploited; most servers the price of basic metals is in the toilet. There's already a fix in the works according to Domino, and as far as I'm concerned it can't be implemented soon enough.3. Most of the soloable named mobs are pretty much good for AA points and that's about it, from what I've seen. I've snagged a couple of interesting looking items, but with the upcoming Treasured nerf they'll be worse shortly; additionally, while interesting they weren't necessarily great to begin with. Mostly the Diablo-style Adjective Item of Nouns, and not altogether impressive on the whole though some interesting combinations do occur sometimes.