I'm done giving my stuff away

[Wallzak]

So... lvl 80 tailor and armourer (first on the server).I'm sitting around when I get a tell from toon... wants 5 MC items (7 combines) and asks how much.  I tell him my costs are 10 gold a combine, plus raws plus my time.I make the items (yes, prebuy the rares) and head off to SS to meet him.The trade commences... out goes the items, in comes the rares and.... 75 gold <blink>.I tell him I'm losing money on the deal... he goes on this speech of not having money etc and how much is acceptable.I give him the regular explanation... 10+hours to get to the point where I can make these items, plat spent on recipe books etc. I point out that not more than 30 mins earlier I paid a jeweler 75 gold per ring for the new haste rings (and I gave him a nice tip).He grumbled, canceled the trade and told me to wait.  He came back 10 mins later with 2 plat and we called it a deal.I'm tired of going out of my way (out of my way meaning prebuying raws, dropping what i'm doing, taking a forge/loom with me to craft on the docks, meeting toons in odd places etc) just to break even, make a small profit or even lose money.I find that while saying "whatever my time is worth to you", while it works sometimes, has show that most people think my time is worth nothing.So I ask... for T8 combines (lets assuming MC @10 gold or 20 for imbued)... what do you charge per combine assuming they supply the rare?

[Rattfa]

Then why not just incorporate your 'time' into your quote? It leaves no room for misunderstandings and bad feeling. Yes saying 'what is my time worth to you' will differ widely from player to player. Set up your combine costs per tier based on fuel costs + the profit you want to make. If I remember I would pay crafters around 20g per combine in t7, and have been paying 25g in t8.

[Dragonhelm]

<p>The simplest way IMO is to tell <u>them</u> which components you need, then make a flat charge for your time per tier.  All the components are available on the market if they haven't harvested them personally, including fuel.</p><p>I did a deal for a guildie recently where I didn't charge for time, but he was quite happy to supply me with everything else. For non guildies though I'd think that after level 29,  roughly 2 Gold per tier (double for imbued) would be reasonable. Some might differ though...<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></p>

[BlueDagger]

<p>I just have to laugh at people like the OP. Honestly, with the new crafting system it take a total of what 2 minutes to make a double combine? Just tell the person to supply all the mats and ask for a tip or give them a flat rate. </p><p>Personally, as long at your supply all the mats (to include fuel), are very respectful, and come to me I'll take the 2 two mintues of my time to give ya a hand.</p>

[Jrral]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>I'm sitting around when I get a tell from toon... wants 5 MC items (7 combines) and asks how much.  I tell him my costs are 10 gold a combine, plus raws plus my time.So I ask... for T8 combines (lets assuming MC @10 gold or 20 for imbued)... what do you charge per combine assuming they supply the rare? </blockquote>First mistake was quoting costs. Quote him the price he'll pay per item and the total price for the order (just to be completely clear), inclusive of everything. That way there's no room for confusion about what the final price will be. Also, unless you know them it might be advisable to have the rares before you start crafting.My formula, assuming the customer provides the rare, is cost of fuel plus 1-2g per tier of the item for Adept 3s (T3-T5 1g, T6 and up 2g, T1 and T2 get special pricing). Potions and poisons I'd price at simply 2-3x fuel cost assuming I've dust in stock (which I usually do).

[Wallzak]

2 minutes??  ARE YOU NUTS??It took me 12+ hours to get to the point to be able to do that 2 minute combine... not to mention the many many many plat... that I probably paid to you for the book that held the recipes for the item that you want made.I tried the tip idea... and as my example shows... I lost money on the deal... lost money... as in it cost me to give the items to the particular person.That said blue... I'm also assuming you're one of those people who recognize the time it takes and gives a decent tip.

[Zygwen]

I currently charge 25 gp per combine if they supply the rare, mail orders only.

[EQPrime]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 minutes??  ARE YOU NUTS??It took me 12+ hours to get to the point to be able to do that 2 minute combine... not to mention the many many many plat... that I probably paid to you for the book that held the recipes for the item that you want made.I tried the tip idea... and as my example shows... I lost money on the deal... lost money... as in it cost me to give the items to the particular person.That said blue... I'm also assuming you're one of those people who recognize the time it takes and gives a decent tip.</blockquote><p>So each person who orders something should pay you for your 12+ hours to level?  I figure with the cost of raws it's about 15g for a mastercrafted piece of armor and about 25g for an imbued one.  I generally charge 20g (30 imbued) for non-guildies, or I'll ask for 15g + tip.  I suppose it depends on the way I'm asked.</p><p>A request like "can u mak rmor 4 me?" will be responded to with a "sure, 20g for regular, 30g for imbued (you provide the rare)"</p><p>A request like, "Hi there Uguv.  I was wondering if you'd be available to craft some armor for my guardian?" will get the 15g + tip quote. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Calthine]

I always say "20g with your rares" (that's T7).  Then there's no doubt, and note it's RARES, not RAWS.  I'll add "otherwise I have to check market prices" and I always quote them the market and a total before I start a single combine.  I only do mail-order cash up front unless it's a regular or they have good references.I've only been burnt once or twice (The level 70 twinker who paid me *precisely* the fuel costs of his T3 order).  Most the time peope are quite generous, I've found.

[SaraBH]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 minutes??  ARE YOU NUTS??It took me 12+ hours to get to the point to be able to do that 2 minute combine... not to mention the many many many plat... that I probably paid to you for the book that held the recipes for the item that you want made.I tried the tip idea... and as my example shows... I lost money on the deal... lost money... as in it cost me to give the items to the particular person.That said blue... I'm also assuming you're one of those people who recognize the time it takes and gives a decent tip.</blockquote><p>First i got to ask how fast did you think you were going to see a profit? </p><p>You could have done the faction writs and got the books much much much cheaper then the adventures were selling them for you could have harvested for yourself to keep your costs down. Or you could have waited 1 month till the prices of everything dropped a bit and then jumped into the market. You desided to spend all that extra money not the buyer. To try to comp your loss onto them all at once or even in a short amount of time is messed up. Thankfully for you you have an entire year till the next expantion to make up that loss.</p>

[Wallzak]

<span class="postbody">"So each person who orders something should pay you for your 12+ hours to level?"It's a cost of doing business.  If you go and buy an iphone... don't be mistaken, $600 for the phone is a fraction of the material costs to make that phone.  You have markup, research/development, advertising, labour of those who created the phone... all rolled into that price.</span><span class="postbody">"You could have done the faction writs and got the books much much much cheaper then the adventures were selling them for you could have harvested for yourself to keep your costs down. Or you could have waited 1 month till the prices of everything dropped a bit and then jumped into the market.  "I did... many many many many many writs... 11-12 per level to be exact.  It's ironic... if I (and any other TSer) had harvested all their items and waited for the books to drop to a reasonable price... we all would still be 75 and harvesting which means the items would still not be available.</span>

[Snowlywhite]

guildies, ppl. with whom I group alot(1 or 2 guys) - no chargerest - 3g/tier/combine, no discounts whatsoever, commisioned work(aka - you put there the rare and cash for each combine separatedly) or, if mail order, cash in advance, no additional cash for imbues(but I'm not t7 with any of my crafters, so fuel costs hit me less)want it, fine, don't, good ridance... I'm willing to spend 10 mins. linking everything I can craft so the guy can decide exactly what'd fit him best, however, I'm not at all willing to craft for the sake of it given how much a time sink each of my crafters was.

[Sennyu]

<p>you have to rember that when you simply ask for cost + tips that sometimes you will make off like a bandit and sometimes you will get screwed.  However imho regardless of how much it may suck some times if your going to simply ask for a tip + materal costs, then you should accept whatever it is that you are given weather it's a 5g tip or a 5P tip.  Now if you simply cant find it acceptable to potentially get that 5G tip then you might want to consider changing to a fixed price system and dont expect a tip in the end.  I know on my server people are charing 25-30G + the rare for tir 8 Adept III's.  </p><p>While I havent had the chance to do end game crafting in this game I have always just charged cost + tip when I wasd playing DAoC, your right somtimes it pays off but most of the time it doesnt.  Dispite the fact that just asking a tip doesnt pay off all that often crafting was never about the coin that I made but about helping others and in that game crafting a high quality item would often times take hours if RL time rather than a few minuets</p><p>You just have to figure out what crafting means to you, if it's about helping guildies and friends then by all means go ahead and keeps the cost + tip method and dont complain when you get the 5G tip.  But if it's about the coin you might want to consider switching to a set price system, loading up your broker with MC stuff from several tirs, and play the under pricing game with all the rest of the crafters out there</p>

[Wallzak]

I realize I'm coming across as a greedy #$&#^ which is not my intention... partly I'm debating because I like a good debate... challenge assumptions and understand other people's perspectives.I understand that a lot of this is my choice... I leveled as fast as I did... cause I wanted to be first... I bought rares/raws... because I'm lazy... heck, I threw away 9 plat on lvl 70 armourer rush writs because they were bugged and were not paying fuel costs... but a good business man keeps these things in mind when doing business.  What is your costs (and my time is a cost... both in the initial set-up and in each combine, buying the books... is a startup cost... again, the profit the adventures who looted it got)My question largely again goes back what's a fair charge.  The range I'm hearing is 20-75 gold (including fuel costs)

[SaraBH]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">"So each person who orders something should pay you for your 12+ hours to level?"<span style="color: #ff0000;">1    -    It's a cost of doing business.  If you go and buy an iphone... don't be mistaken, $600 for the phone is a fraction of the material costs to make that phone.  You have markup, research/development, advertising, labour of those who created the phone... all rolled into that price.</span></span><span class="postbody">"You could have done the faction writs and got the books much much much cheaper then the adventures were selling them for you could have harvested for yourself to keep your costs down. Or you could have waited 1 month till the prices of everything dropped a bit and then jumped into the market.  "<span style="color: #33ff00;">2   -     I did... many many many many many writs... 11-12 per level to be exact.  It's ironic... if I (and any other TSer) had harvested all their items and waited for the books to drop to a reasonable price... we all would still be 75 and harvesting which means the items would still not be available.</span></span></blockquote><p>1 - the cost to produce is devided between all the units produced. It didnt cost apple 600 to make one. It cost them millions but that cost is devided down so they can still sell them. By your logic we would be paying outragius privces for everything. Have you seen how much that pay singers? but i can buy a song online for 99cents. Most companys are in the negitive for 5 years or more when they start. Thats 5 years before they start turning a profit on there investment.</p><p>2 - if you bought your advanced books from adventurers you did it wrong. Im told there are faction quests out in Kunark that after you got enuf faction they would sell you the advanced books (was like 10 G each). And if you lvled using the city writs then all your fuel was covered for the entire time you were lvling so how much did you really spend?</p>

[Bhagpuss]

The point, as I take it, is that you are asking another player to pay you a premium for the time that you spent entertaining yourself. We all pay a monthly fee to have access to this "game", where we can do whatever amuses us for as long as we feel like doing it. If that means crafting and then pretending to run a business, that's fine. The game allows it. You are, however, relying on finding other people who are willing to enter into your personal construct of what constitutes entertainment by pretending to be your customers. Generally that's not too hard, because a lot of people don't find crafting amusing and would rather those who do did the crafting for them. Expecting those people also to pay a premium for the time you spent amusing yourself seems a bit fanciful.

[Wallzak]

5 years? I don't think so...Now I don't have the exact numbers... but I can get them for you.  Halo 3... in the first day it was released... sold more than the whole production cost for the game... one day!That means I get all the money I sunk into become 80 back on the first day... WOOT!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Caethre]

<p><span style="color: #ff6600;">OOC.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Wow.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">To my mind, those of you who are asking what some others of you are saying is too much, are still asking too little!</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Friends are no charge, of course. But from those who are not specifically friends, I ask a flat 40 gold coins per Tier 8 Mastercrafted combine, and even then, I only work by Norrathian mail, I won't offer to meet in person. If they think that's too much, no problem, I take no offence at all, they can just find someone else. Those of you expecting this "2 minutes of your time is worth nothing" argument to hold any weight whatsoever, are misleading yourselves. And as for those suggesting such a fee is "greedy", I suggest those people are overbearingly selfish, demanding the precious time of total strangers for their own benefit and expecting not to pay what that time is *worth*.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">I am a Tier 8 Adventurer and a Tier 8 Tradeskiller. To me, even 40 gold is not a lot of coin, and to the clients I serve, it is not a lot of coin either. The typical Tier 8 adventurer can make many platinum coins per day without even trying. However, my *time* is precious to me, and those who feel my time is worthless to them are free to think as they wish, but they can also look for another Sage.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Of course, I will happily pay 40 gold as a fee to any other tradeskiller for making Tier 8 items, per item, when I supply the rare myself. This is because I *do* value their time.</span></p><p><span style="color: #ff6600;">Each to their own.</span></p>

[SaraBH]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>5 years? I don't think so...Now I don't have the exact numbers... but I can get them for you.  Halo 3... in the first day it was released... sold more than the whole production cost for the game... one day!That means I get all the money I sunk into become 80 back on the first day... WOOT!! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/97ada74b88049a6d50a6ed40898a03d7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>i am talking about the averages and you bring up a Franchise? There are tons of "products" that do much better then the average, but that dont change the average.....May i also point out bungie sold there halo3 for like what 60$ per copy where it cost them what more like 6Million (I have no idea how much it really cost but im shur it was closer to this then 60$)  to produce the first copy? </p><p>bungie had a few advantages over you....first its a unique product (If you or I want it we have to buy it from them).</p><p>Bungie had a "Name". (How many repeat custimers do you have? probly not the millions Halo1-2 had)</p>

[BlueDagger]

<p>Don't get me wrong, those that want to charge for their services more power to you, but you should expect someone laugh at your outragous prices. If a lvl 30 comes up to you can offers to give you all the mats you need to include fuel and then gives you a 5-10g tip because they say that is all the money they have... be happy with it. That person made the effort to bring you all the materials you need, was kind, and thankful enough they gave you the rest of the money they have as thanks. </p><p>That being said I'm a 46 armorer and I just enjoy crafting, I have fun gathering mats and pumping out a few writs for the guild and lvls. If I can help someone out by making a piece for them I'm more then happy to if they supply me with everything and come to my location. I craft some things and place them in the Broker to make my profits, but overall anyone going into tradeskilling in any game shouldn't go into it thinking it will be a cash cow.</p><p>If tradeskilling was like it was back in the day where you had to make the components to make pieces then I may charge.. that was just a pain in the [Removed for Content].</p>

[Karellen]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>So... lvl 80 tailor and armourer (first on the server).I'm sitting around when I get a tell from toon... wants 5 MC items (7 combines) and asks how much.  I tell him my costs are 10 gold a combine, plus raws plus my time.I make the items (yes, prebuy the rares) and head off to SS to meet him.The trade commences... out goes the items, in comes the rares and.... 75 gold <blink>.I tell him I'm losing money on the deal... he goes on this speech of not having money etc and how much is acceptable.I give him the regular explanation... 10+hours to get to the point where I can make these items, plat spent on recipe books etc. I point out that not more than 30 mins earlier I paid a jeweler 75 gold per ring for the new haste rings (and I gave him a nice tip).He grumbled, canceled the trade and told me to wait.  He came back 10 mins later with 2 plat and we called it a deal.I'm tired of going out of my way (out of my way meaning prebuying raws, dropping what i'm doing, taking a forge/loom with me to craft on the docks, meeting toons in odd places etc) just to break even, make a small profit or even lose money.I find that while saying "whatever my time is worth to you", while it works sometimes, has show that most people think my time is worth nothing.So I ask... for T8 combines (lets assuming MC @10 gold or 20 for imbued)... what do you charge per combine assuming they supply the rare? </blockquote><p>Why do you craft for people that are not from your guild or close friends?</p><p>For all other cases the broker is where people should find products properly costed.</p>

[Wallzak]

Umm... how else am I suppose to fund my lavish lifestyle?? <senses the glares of those who... through reading this post thinks i'm a greed #$@#&%>Interesting idea.When it comes to guildees, if someone wants to tip thats cool, its nice to have my fuel paid for.  There have been times where I give things to friends, I have also held  pre-raid contests and give the winner a free adornment etc.Up to my previous temper tantrum exhibited by the creation of this post... I have gone out of my way to make things for people including doing sub tier combines for free to help out those starting.Might I point out that it wasn't that this person didn't have the money... anyone in ROK knows money is easy to come by... he just didn't have it on him.  It took him less than 5 mins to get the money together.To honestly answer your question... I like helping people... its just nice to be appreciated in return... the most practical way to do that is to pay someone a fair wage for a favor they are doing for you.The other day I'm checking my items for price viability when I noticed this toon had thrown up a t8 mc shield for 2.5 gold, not 2.5 plat.  I ran over to the broker, bought it and mailed it back to them with a note saying they should be more careful where they leave their stuff laying around.  Why? Cause its the right thing to do... taking it and selling it in my opinion would be stealing... and I've done the same thing myself and basically gave the piece away to someone.What did this person do in return? Say thank-you, here is your 2.5 gold back for doing me a favor?  Nothing... not even a word of thanks (they did undercut me on the broker (again) with the same shield ROFL).Would I do it again... of course... cause its the right thing to do.

[Karellen]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>Umm... how else am I suppose to fund my lavish lifestyle?? <senses the glares of those who... through reading this post thinks i'm a greed #$@#&%>Interesting idea.When it comes to guildees, if someone wants to tip thats cool, its nice to have my fuel paid for.  There have been times where I give things to friends, I have also held  pre-raid contests and give the winner a free adornment etc.Up to my previous temper tantrum exhibited by the creation of this post... I have gone out of my way to make things for people including doing sub tier combines for free to help out those starting.Might I point out that it wasn't that this person didn't have the money... anyone in ROK knows money is easy to come by... he just didn't have it on him.  It took him less than 5 mins to get the money together.To honestly answer your question... I like helping people... its just nice to be appreciated in return... the most practical way to do that is to pay someone a fair wage for a favor they are doing for you.The other day I'm checking my items for price viability when I noticed this toon had thrown up a t8 mc shield for 2.5 gold, not 2.5 plat.  I ran over to the broker, bought it and mailed it back to them with a note saying they should be more careful where they leave their stuff laying around.  Why? Cause its the right thing to do... taking it and selling it in my opinion would be stealing... and I've done the same thing myself and basically gave the piece away to someone.What did this person do in return? Say thank-you, here is your 2.5 gold back for doing me a favor?  Nothing... not even a word of thanks (they did undercut me on the broker (again) with the same shield ROFL).Would I do it again... of course... cause its the right thing to do.</blockquote><p>Well, honor to you for doing the right thing but this honor will be usually your only payment <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>So either know that before hand and dont feel bad about it or ... do the deserved thing instead of the right thing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p>

[Editedmind]

T8 tailor here. I did the writs for Danak before the change, only did the last 10k with the 750 writs. I've received the other books from players, special deals, or donations. Generally my prices are some of the cheapest you'll find on my server, I supplement my income with broker sales of rares, raws, and at the moment a few T8 MC gear pieces.I'll say that doing the faction grind isn't really much cheaper than buying off the broker unless you can make your profits from the harvesting you did to fuel the writs as well. In the time that you've completed the writs you could have made a load of cash from farming named mobs or something...  The only real way to make us worth a [Removed for Content] again is to make the whole grind and process much harder while increasing the desirability of our goods tenfold. Doing that will create a more healthy market that isn't constantly flooded, but then you'll also have people whining that it's too hard, that they can't support their 9 alts, and they'll try to get the whole system dumbed down... Kind of like what happened over the last three years.

[Wallzak]

hey editemind... I love your tag line... although now we have no choice <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Snowlywhite]

<cite>BlueDagger wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Don't get me wrong, those that want to charge for their services more power to you, but you should expect someone laugh at your outragous prices. If a lvl 30 comes up to you can offers to give you all the mats you need to include fuel and then gives you a 5-10g tip because they say that is all the money they have... be happy with it. That person made the effort to bring you all the materials you need, was kind, and thankful enough they gave you the rest of the money they have as thanks. </p></blockquote>I don't NEED the materials, he does... he needs his armor, not me...and saying "I don't have more then x" is bs imho. After 3 months of playin', I have some hundred of plats, and I'm lvl 38 ffs...I find it fair to craft for free to new ppl. to the game/the server(especially since population on pvp servers doesn't seem to be thriving, so any new addition is good). But to craft for almost nothing just because someone cba to make a plat for himself... why? All the t2 rares I pick up on the way end up in the gear of some newcomer - life ain't so pretty on a pvp server when you're new. But that's that... if you're high lvl and didn't bother to make cash for whatever I don't care reason... err... I find fair to payup ppl. for their time irl, don't see why ingame should be any different...

[ShallaBal]

<p>I charge 1p + incarnadine cluster for an imbued t8 weapon. Most people don't even raise an eyebrow and I only had one "discussion" about the price so far.</p><p>Sha</p>

[littleman17]

<p>As a consumer, I am always willing to pay the crafter's fuel costs +x amount of gold depending on the tier, and I always supply the rare. But charging people for things that only cost you money if you are lazy (aka, raws), is just plain wrong. Not everyone it rich and can afford to pay 70 gold for a single piece of mc armor that they will probably only use for a few levels after buying it.</p><p>So yeah, you will probably find yourself making much more money, and getting many more customers (through referals and such) if you just slacken up on your price policy a bit. Quit charging each person for the time it took you something you CHOSE to do... And if you want to cut a lot of your price out, go harvest your own raws! With the new stacking thing, you can get enough raws (and take up minimum space) to last you about 40-50 combines in around about an hour our two... and come away with a few rares to boot!</p><p>So yeah, that is my opinion, take it as you will.</p>

[erin]

<cite>littleman17 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>But charging people for things that only cost you money if you are lazy (aka, raws), is just plain wrong. Not everyone it rich and can afford to pay 70 gold for a single piece of mc armor that they will probably only use for a few levels after buying it.</p></blockquote>Wow don't even know where to start with this.  The crafter is making all the effort, including getting the raws.  If the consumer wants to supply the raws, I will lower my price.  Most don't.  Most want to hand a rare and some cash to the tradeskiller, they don't want to know how the stuff is made or what it takes.  So if you aren't rich, go get all the raws, rares, fuels etc and approach me politely, and we'll work out a deal.  I don't mind making a very small profit (say 10gp?) per piece, instead of the usual 20 or 30, but I better not have to put in the effort of going out and harvesting raws for YOUR stuff eh?  Else I better factor in mender costs too! I don't think I'm terribly greedy, nobody has yet argued my price, so that tells me its quite reasonable.  Guildies get theirs at cost of fuels, and are very happy about that.  They've also kindly given me some raws to get me to 80, so its a very fair exchange.

[katalmach]

<p>The worst kind of crafter is the crafter who says "Oh, 20 gold and a tip for my time spent" when you ask how much it'll cost to have an item made. Guess what, your time is worth absolutely nothing to me. If I could get away with it, I'd have you make me the item free of charge, you providing all the rares and raws. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to pay for an item - but do tell me how much you want for it straight away. If you won't give me a solid, straight up figure, I won't do business with you. Don't waste my time by making me think about how much I think it might be worth, whether I'm being too generous or too greedy, whether you'll whine about me paying too little when in fact you never told me how much you wanted... just tell me the price and I will pay it.</p><p>I honestly don't do business with wishy-washy "oh whatever you think it's worth" crafters anymore. It's annoying, and I'd rather go buy what I want from the broker (fixed price - I know how much I'm paying and there is no hassle).</p>

[Littl]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>So... lvl 80 tailor and armourer (first on the server).I'm sitting around when I get a tell from toon... wants 5 MC items (7 combines) and asks how much.  I tell him my costs are 10 gold a combine, plus raws plus my time.I make the items (yes, prebuy the rares) and head off to SS to meet him.The trade commences... out goes the items, in comes the rares and.... 75 gold <blink>.I tell him I'm losing money on the deal... he goes on this speech of not having money etc and how much is acceptable.I give him the regular explanation... 10+hours to get to the point where I can make these items, plat spent on recipe books etc. I point out that not more than 30 mins earlier I paid a jeweler 75 gold per ring for the new haste rings (and I gave him a nice tip).He grumbled, canceled the trade and told me to wait.  He came back 10 mins later with 2 plat and we called it a deal.I'm tired of going out of my way (out of my way meaning prebuying raws, dropping what i'm doing, taking a forge/loom with me to craft on the docks, meeting toons in odd places etc) just to break even, make a small profit or even lose money.I find that while saying "whatever my time is worth to you", while it works sometimes, has show that most people think my time is worth nothing.So I ask... for T8 combines (lets assuming MC @10 gold or 20 for imbued)... what do you charge per combine assuming they supply the rare? </blockquote>You lost that customer for life and you lost out. You won't see money from them again. You didn't give a price. Then when you saw them and they gave you money you dropped a bomb on them with the bill. The last thing they wan't to hear is a list of things you expect them to pay for including the time it took you to level to 80 and buy the recipe books. That's outrageous especially considering that because you wanted to be the first to hit 80 and the first to sell newly crafted items at premium cost, you spent a ton of play to get there and now expect eveyone to pay for it. Nobody is going to pay you for leveling to 80. Wouldn't that be nice. You want people to pay for everything you do. No offense but I kind of see you as the person who wants too much and is too expensive.Everybody has their own way and to each their own but when I make customers, they stick with me for a long time. Many have been with me since the beginning. I charge 25g for T8. Flat rate. If they give me a tip extra that's great if not that's fine no problem. If they get a bunch of things made I give them a better deal. If they order from me a lot I give them discounts.

[Qandor]

<p>I solved the whole problem a long time ago. I just do not do custom combines. I sell what I choose on the broker and if I it can't sell there at reasonable profit, I just don't bother. No fuss, not looking to be a Walmart anyway. When I did do custom in the past, I found one good indication of who would be a tight fisted customer. When someone in chat says "any (name your crafter class here) looking for work?", I knew that was a customer to avoid. Inevitably they always gave me a paltry tip. I think it was the attitude that they were giving ME work I was looking for.</p><p>Now customers who said in chat "looking to have (blank) made, pst" generally gave reasonable or even good tips. Your mileage may vary but that was my experience. </p>

[retro_guy]

<cite>Sasonu@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">"So each person who orders something should pay you for your 12+ hours to level?"<span style="color: #ff0000;">1    -    It's a cost of doing business.  If you go and buy an iphone... don't be mistaken, $600 for the phone is a fraction of the material costs to make that phone.  You have markup, research/development, advertising, labour of those who created the phone... all rolled into that price.</span></span><span class="postbody">"You could have done the faction writs and got the books much much much cheaper then the adventures were selling them for you could have harvested for yourself to keep your costs down. Or you could have waited 1 month till the prices of everything dropped a bit and then jumped into the market.  "<span style="color: #33ff00;">2   -     I did... many many many many many writs... 11-12 per level to be exact.  It's ironic... if I (and any other TSer) had harvested all their items and waited for the books to drop to a reasonable price... we all would still be 75 and harvesting which means the items would still not be available.</span></span></blockquote><p>1 - the cost to produce is devided between all the units produced. It didnt cost apple 600 to make one. It cost them millions but that cost is devided down so they can still sell them. By your logic we would be paying outragius privces for everything. Have you seen how much that pay singers? but i can buy a song online for 99cents. Most companys are in the negitive for 5 years or more when they start. Thats 5 years before they start turning a profit on there investment.</p><p><span style="font-size: medium;">2 - if you bought your advanced books from adventurers you did it wrong. Im told there are faction quests out in Kunark that after you got enuf faction they would sell you the advanced books (was like 10 G each). And if you lvled using the city writs then all your fuel was covered for the entire time you were lvling so how much did you really spend?</span></p></blockquote>You do realise that only really adventurers have a good method of getting faction to buy the books?If you have a pure crafter, or like me a low level (30) adventurer and 70 crafter you have to do the tradeskill writs, which up until a few days ago gave +250 faction each. That's about 200 writs at approx 5 mins each = that's 17 hours of solid writs.However the faction have been raise to +750 per writ, so faction can NOW be gaid in 1/3 of the time.

[Motown]

<cite>Qandor wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Inevitably they always gave me a paltry tip. I think it was the attitude that they were giving ME work I was looking for.</p><p>Now customers who said in chat "looking to have (blank) made, pst" generally gave reasonable or even good tips. Your mileage may vary but that was my experience. </p></blockquote>It's worth remembering that some people come from non-tipping cultures (eg us Australians).  If you say it's 20g they'll assume it's 20g all up.  The only place we usually see "tipping" is in restaurants and, even then, it's usually only utilized as a reward for <i>exceptional </i>service rather than <i>de rigeur</i>.  So, if you see a toon with long white socks, holding a can of VB who opens half his sentences with "Yeah, nah...", tell him exactly what you're after rather than assuming he knows what tip you have in mind.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />This isn't a reflection on your handling of the situation, just noting that two people may see the same situation completely differently based on cultural differences.

[Calthine]

I transmute for tips, because it only costs me time and is good for customer relations.  Tips have varied from a couple gold to "If you see anything you want, just ask!"  (I got a couple upgrades that way, lol.)

[Trib123]

<cite>Possumu@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The worst kind of crafter is the crafter who says "Oh, 20 gold and a tip for my time spent" when you ask how much it'll cost to have an item made. Guess what, your time is worth absolutely nothing to me. If I could get away with it, I'd have you make me the item free of charge, you providing all the rares and raws. Don't get me wrong, I'm more than willing to pay for an item - but do tell me how much you want for it straight away. If you won't give me a solid, straight up figure, I won't do business with you. Don't waste my time by making me think about how much I think it might be worth, whether I'm being too generous or too greedy, whether you'll whine about me paying too little when in fact you never told me how much you wanted... just tell me the price and I will pay it.</p><p>I honestly don't do business with wishy-washy "oh whatever you think it's worth" crafters anymore. It's annoying, and I'd rather go buy what I want from the broker (fixed price - I know how much I'm paying and there is no hassle).</p></blockquote>I'm like that in real life.  Nothing I hate more than looking for the price of something in a magazine advert and seeing 'Please Phone'.  It drives me nuts.  The one time I did try phoning was for something that cost over £1000.  Even after phoning, the shop wouldn't give me a price, they insisted I gave them the cheapest quote I'd got elsewhere first. I ended up hanging up. That was 12 years ago and I've never responded to a 'Please phone for latest price' advert since.

[Peysel]

There is a broker you know, but then you'll have real competition from people that price more fairly.  If you feel the way you do either put the stuff on the broker, or state your TOTAL price upfront.  Oh but wait, you won't be able to guilt trip people into paying even more then will you.  Oh and *giving* your stuff away would mean that you literally did it for free, meaning you weren't payed for the fuel and you used your own rare..but the case is that you were in fact paid for those, so all this post is about is that you didn't get the tip size you tried to extort from your victim.  In fact, you have already stated that they did give you tip, and that it was too small, so perhaps you should rename the thread to "Oh noes!  My victim didn't give me a big enough tip! Waah!" since that is actually the truth of the matter.  Talk about over-exaggerating, sheesh.<img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[nodaisho]

<cite>Snowlywhite@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>After 3 months of playin', I have some hundred of plats, and I'm lvl 38 ffs...</blockquote>How? I have been playing for a year and a half now, and have 4 plat at level 57, and about three plat worth of rares. Have you just been out there killing plat farmers?

[Snowlywhite]

farmin' named(not even too much, but it's unbelievable how much ppl. are willin' to pay for t2-t3 masters/fabled items... or used too till rok came out) and crafting... crafting ad nausseum, but well... had to lvl them up anyway, to keep me stocked with goods I use on my adventurer char.And some harvesting, but not too much... usually to stock up my crafters with commons, but usually selling the rares I get and I don't use. Made those plats after I've also spent a huge ammount on masters(only havin' masters all the time, since 20 or so after I settled up abit) and a serious ammount on gear too...and regarding the initial post: yeah, misread it 1st time. If it's one thing I hate more then asking someone how much thing x costs and him replyin' with "offer" is ppl. like you with "will craft for tips".Say the price in advance and even do the maths for the poor sob, ffs... I say "3g/tier/combine, so if you want your ebon armor it'll be 5x3 = 15g/item(t5) and since there are 7 items, the total would be 1p5g"... You're even worse then those waiters unhappy about their tips(eating only in the city, I've bumped into a few - it's the safest way to never step my feet in that place again)

[Spyderbite]

<cite>nodaisho wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>How? I have been playing for a year and a half now, and have 4 plat at level 57, and about three plat worth of rares. Have you just been out there killing plat farmers?</blockquote>I made 12 plat before I was level 10.. which took about 3 days. Had 20 plat before I was level 20... this took about a week and a half. At one point around level 30 I had about 60 plat in the bank. However, I picked up a nasty habit of living beyond my means. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I did it all by harvesting and selling everything on the broker, period. No farming etc. Just harvesting.

[nodaisho]

...When did you start? And about what do you sell stuff for? I have no idea how I am so far behind money-wise compared to everybody.

[Illmarr]

<cite>ShallaBal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I charge 1p + incarnadine cluster for an imbued t8 weapon. Most people don't even raise an eyebrow and I only had one "discussion" about the price so far.</p><p>Sha</p></blockquote>Where did you find a sucker that actually wanted a player-made weapon? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Didi]

<cite>Motown wrote:</cite><blockquote>It's worth remembering that some people come from non-tipping cultures (eg us Australians).  If you say it's 20g they'll assume it's 20g all up.  The only place we usually see "tipping" is in restaurants and, even then, it's usually only utilized as a reward for <i>exceptional </i>service rather than <i>de rigeur</i>.  So, if you see a toon with long white socks, holding a can of VB who opens half his sentences with "Yeah, nah...", tell him exactly what you're after rather than assuming he knows what tip you have in mind.  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/e8a506dc4ad763aca51bec4ca7dc8560.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />This isn't a reflection on your handling of the situation, just noting that two people may see the same situation completely differently based on cultural differences.</blockquote><p>Quoted again because this is worth repeating.</p><p>As far as I can see the only solid prices you gave him were your fuel costs.  He went above and beyond that and offered 75g, which was far more than any numeric value that you told him.  IMO, you were wrong to ask for more, when you'd agreed to do the work without giving any indication whatsoever you had a minimum acceptable price.</p><p>If you want to be paid more than the fuel costs then say so up front.  It's not fair to the customer to name one price (the fuel price) and expect them to magically and telepathically know what your time, efforts, and recipe books are worth to you.  Personally, I craft because I enjoy it and I view my time and recipe book expenses as my own investment, not something that I would pass on to my customers.  I'd have been more than happy with a 75g tip.  That doesn't mean you're wrong to want more, but if you do expect more and you do expect your customers to defray the costs of your levelling up then you need to tell them that clearly and in advance, which you did not.</p>

[Signal9]

<cite>Sasonu@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 minutes??  ARE YOU NUTS??It took me 12+ hours to get to the point to be able to do that 2 minute combine... not to mention the many many many plat... that I probably paid to you for the book that held the recipes for the item that you want made.I tried the tip idea... and as my example shows... I lost money on the deal... lost money... as in it cost me to give the items to the particular person.That said blue... I'm also assuming you're one of those people who recognize the time it takes and gives a decent tip.</blockquote><p>First i got to ask how fast did you think you were going to see a profit? </p><p>You could have done the faction writs and got the books much much much cheaper then the adventures were selling them for you could have harvested for yourself to keep your costs down. Or you could have waited 1 month till the prices of everything dropped a bit and then jumped into the market. You desided to spend all that extra money not the buyer. To try to comp your loss onto them all at once or even in a short amount of time is messed up. Thankfully for you you have an entire year till the next expantion to make up that loss.</p></blockquote><p>Mmm.  It's not really a matter of how fast I want to make a profit, but on whether you wanted this spell in the first week of RoK.</p><p>I leveled to 79 sage by Friday/Saturday.  At that time, due to leveling TS rather than adventuring, I could not do the faction quests to purchase the adv pages, and so had to use the broker to be able to make any Ad3's.</p><p>I paid 6pp for one book, 12pp for another, and around 1-2pp for each of several others.</p><p>If you wanted an Adept3 made, you were not going to get it by giving me 5-10 gold in fuel costs alone.  It's not about comping my loss, but it is about supply and demand, and compensating me for the time in the TS dungeon rather than leveling along with you.  </p><p>Wait another couple of weeks, and there will be so many sages that no one will be able to charge more than 'Tips please'.  After all, what was the price of the new xbox that came out?  and the price was what just weeks later?</p>

[Killerbee3000]

<p>i suggest rolling a woodworker and joining the invis totem mafia if you want to make money form crafting. </p><p>with the high quality quest rewards and drops have in rok, sales of crafted equip simply cant  be high. </p><p>spells still sell, why? because there arent many masters yet... (that will change in the longer though)</p><p>food? lol... 1 - 2 silver per combine profit? no thx.... </p><p>carpenter? great to decorate your own house.... </p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>nodaisho wrote:</cite><blockquote>...When did you start? And about what do you sell stuff for? I have no idea how I am so far behind money-wise compared to everybody.</blockquote>I started harvesting right out of the gate at level 1. I harvested and picked up every node and shiny that I came across. I invested in MC boxes and later in salesman's crates. And, I dumped absolutely everything that I harvested or collected on to the broker with the exception of the stuff I could use myself. I did this daily with two harvesting runs a day. And, I harvested in zones that were well above my adventure level. I just made sure to keep my harvesting skills high enough to be able to harvest in those higher zones. I was level 13 when I started harvesting in EL for example.I didn't start making money with my tradeskill until I was creating T2 items. Now, I'm on a PvP server so that may make a difference. But, I was able to pump out MC/Imbued items one right after the other because of the cache o rares I'd collected and on a PvP server, the twinks tend to pay mad money for that stuff. Well.. at least they did before RoK came out. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" />But, harvesting is the key to money early on. Those without the patience to harvest regularly will find themselves grinding mobs until something drops worth selling. And, that can take quite a few days in some cases. However, after 6 hours of harvesting I can put upwards of 20 rares on the broker which will sell for the same amount or more than that single dropped item. ^^Now, my alts are T2 and T3 and following the same harvesting pattern these days while my main at T5 (adventure) and T6 (tradeskill) can kick back and enjoy the fruits of their labor. XD

[Jeger_Wulf]

I don't respond to in-game calls for crafting. For me, it's just not worth it. I put the stuff on my broker and let them buy it there. Guildies are a different story of course. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ookami-san]

<cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote>2 minutes??  ARE YOU NUTS??It took me 12+ hours to get to the point to be able to do that 2 minute combine... not to mention the many many many plat... that I probably paid to you for the book that held the recipes for the item that you want made.I tried the tip idea... and as my example shows... I lost money on the deal... lost money... as in it cost me to give the items to the particular person.That said blue... I'm also assuming you're one of those people who recognize the time it takes and gives a decent tip.</blockquote><p>So each person who orders something should pay you for your 12+ hours to level?  I figure with the cost of raws it's about 15g for a mastercrafted piece of armor and about 25g for an imbued one.  I generally charge 20g (30 imbued) for non-guildies, or I'll ask for 15g + tip.  I suppose it depends on the way I'm asked.</p><p>A request like "can u mak rmor 4 me?" will be responded to with a "sure, 20g for regular, 30g for imbued (you provide the rare)"</p><p>A request like, "Hi there Uguv.  I was wondering if you'd be available to craft some armor for my guardian?" will get the 15g + tip quote. <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></p></blockquote><p>Well... let's see...</p><p>Does EVERY client pay a plumber for his skills, certifications and experience?  Yup.</p><p>Does EVERY client pay a lawyer for his years of law school, trial experience, etc?  Yup</p><p>Does EVERY client pay a doctor for his medical knowledge, doctorate and practice (and expensive trophey wife)? Yup</p><p>Survey yes.... YES... every client should pay for time, effort and money it took a crafter to level up.  Anyone not using a crafting bot should agree.... Well... and traitor's to the overlord...</p><p>You're not a traitor are you?</p>

[Calthine]

That's pretty..  accusatory!Sure, every customer pays for my time and expenses.  But not all at once!  I've grossed 270 plat since Kunark launched, my time and expenses have long since been covered.

[Wallzak]

Two comments... I"ve been quiet for a few days.First of all... the toon this post was created about knew the rules going in.  I gave him a quote before hand... he knew my costs... but he changed his order and added three pieces... I assumed he was able to do the math.  As far as losing a future customer... with losing money he wasn't a customer in the first place... but closer to a money sucking alt I agree not every customer pays for all my time... otherwise I would be paying $40000 an hour for my lawyer, not the $400 an hour I pay now.I guess my comment to all those who think that it's just a 2 min combine... if you don't want to pay for our "expertise" lvl your own TSer and make the item yourself.  I guarantee after 50 levels you'll be back more than willing to pay for my time.

[macsux]

/rant onI'm [Removed for Content] amazed by some of you people. It cost me 20pp per crafter to level up to 80 in the first days of the expansion and get books. I didn't do it because it's fun, but because I wanted to be the first. First to be able to make these items and first to charge people premium for them. If you want a rare tradeskill item 3 days into expansion don't come to me asking to do a 20g item for 10g profit. Most adventurers have money and if they don't they are being lazy. I make few plat a day just doing all these crappy solo quests in ROK. I think it's deserving I make the same amount crafting since most people find crafting BORING. I absolutely hate people who undercharge or try to be nice and do stuff for free or next to nothing. You completely ruin tradeskilling for others who are in it to make money (fyi, soe from the start said that tradeskilling is a way to make money!). If you're T8 the value of gold, or i should say plat should feel quite different then it's value at lvl 30. I can fart and make 10g without waking up in T8, so if you are happy making 10g profit then my only conclusion is your time must not be valueable to you. I would rather get something accomplished in-game then let people take advantage of you. You charge them 10g now and then a week later they'll be selling a t8 master on broker for 100pp... hm... lets see how many crafting orders you'll need to do to buy that master off them.BTW, count up the amount it costs to grinding 700 writs to get books with the price of raws and time invested... You'll find its way cheaper to buy books on broker.my point is if you charge less then 30g per item for t8, you really don't have a good sense of value of currency in this game/rant off

[Wallzak]

/applauds

[Motown]

<cite>Ookami-san wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Uguv@Mistmoore wrote:</cite><p>Well... let's see...</p><p>Does EVERY client pay a plumber for his skills, certifications and experience?  Yup.</p><p>Does EVERY client pay a lawyer for his years of law school, trial experience, etc?  Yup</p><p>Does EVERY client pay a doctor for his medical knowledge, doctorate and practice (and expensive trophey wife)? Yup</p><p>Survey yes.... YES... every client should pay for time, effort and money it took a crafter to level up.  Anyone not using a crafting bot should agree.... Well... and traitor's to the overlord...</p><p>You're not a traitor are you?</p></blockquote>Slightly OTT, but I disagree in principle, actually.Regarding the plumber, I pay for the expertise the skills and certifications <i>signify</i>, rather than his outlay or hardships in obtaining them..  Whether it took him six years part time or two months is irrelevant to me as is whether he paid for an expensive course or got a scholarship.   It's up to the plumber to formulate his rates based on his value in relation to the competition and the market in which he operates.When I went into business after University, I didn't tally up my outlays to that point then divide by some factor to get my rate.  I hopped on the treadmill at a rate commensurate to my value compared to others around me that the market could bear.As for the crafting rates, yes, trailblazers should and probably will be able to get more.  This is due to them having a higher relative value, though, than any innate right to have their outlays covered.  Your customers don't and shouldn't give a proverbial about how you got where you are.  Your value to them is is the relative value of the service you provide.  It's an important distinction.

[leiela]

<p>There is a huge difference bettween making money and ripping people off. </p><p>I'm the 2nd richest person on my server but i like to think i don't over charge. i make all my guildy's stuff for free as long as they provide the rare.. i refuse to take raw or fuel costs from them. </p><p>My broker stuff is fairly expensive i'll i'll grant you... not stupidly so, but if your lazy and don't want to come direct you can afford to pay the prices, this is where i make most of my money. </p><p>However if you come to me direct im more than reasonable...T1 - 3 i normally do for free... get them hooked while they are young i always say. T4 - T7 i usually hint at the fuel costs and leave the rest upto the player .. if they ask specifically ( some people don't like vague pricing ) i usually just quote cost price. </p><p>T8 ive been charging 20g an item, people seem to think its fair.... yes i spent alot of money getting to 80th but seriously now a combine takes 30 seconds at most..... and doing a few orders a day doens't take too much time away from making stuff for the broker where i can make the real profit. </p><p>I'm not a goodie goodie ... if i could sell you a used toothpick for 50pp i would... i just think people remember people who charged them fairly and they respond to that .... more than once ive seen people buy my slightly higher priced items because they wanted their custom to go to me rather than my competion who may have treated them poorly in the past. </p><p>Sales is more than just profit per item .... it's also about having the right price ... too low and you exert alot of effort to make any coin... to high and people don't buy.. </p><p>There is a balance .. i find selling 100 items at a reasonable markup more profitable than selling just 3 with i high price tag.</p><p>Also never forget .... service with a smile...  doing the job is one thing, doing the job for the right price is another... but if you do the job at the right price and are good to your customers and make them remeber you they will always come back.  </p>

[ladyvengeance]

<p>I have 7 crafters and so people are always asking me to make them stuff, and I'm upfront about the costs. For T2 I charge 5 gold per item, T3 is 10 gold per item, T4 is 15 gold, and so on. I too don't respond to the calls for crafters on the chat unless they're looking for a whole set - it's just not worth the time. The fact is that I can sell stuff on the broker for more than I can by charging to craft something. </p><p>But for guildies and friends......I do it for free (although I do ask them to provide the rare).</p>

[Calthine]

<cite>Leiela@Splitpaw wrote:</cite><blockquote>Sales is more than just profit per item .... it's also about having the right price ... too low and you exert alot of effort to make any coin... to high and people don't buy.. <p>There is a balance .. i find selling 100 items at a reasonable markup more profitable than selling just 3 with i high price tag.</p><p>Also never forget .... service with a smile...  doing the job is one thing, doing the job for the right price is another... but if you do the job at the right price and are good to your customers and make them remeber you they will always come back.  </p></blockquote>And that, boys and trolls, is good business.

[Jeeshman]

<cite>macsux wrote:</cite><blockquote>/rant onI'm [Removed for Content] amazed by some of you people. <snip>my point is if you charge less then 30g per item for t8, you really don't have a good sense of value of currency in this game/rant off</blockquote>I don't disagree with you, but that isn't really the issue IMO.  I *want* you to make a decent profit.  But I don't ask Weaponsmiths or Armorers to make stuff for me very often and--although I think I have some degree of intelligence--<i>I do not have a farging clue what someone would expect as a tip</i>.  I could definitely see myself making the same mistake the buyer in the OP's scenario made.  Please consider setting a flat rate price at the outset.  The decent people will add a tip even if it's not mentioned (I would anyway).

[Smirkey_of_Nektulos]

<cite>Killerbee3000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>i suggest rolling a woodworker and joining the invis totem mafia if you want to make money form crafting.</p><span style="color: #66ffff;">I can't keep enough arrows in stock selling them for just over triple fuel cost per stack of T6 arrows.  That's an easy 3g for a minutes' work.  And then there are harvesting tools.  People loves them their picks, saws, traps and shovels; fishing poles, not so much.</span><p>with the high quality quest rewards and drops have in rok, sales of crafted equip simply cant  be high.</p><span style="color: #66ffff;">It's almost decent gear now in T8.  Still needs some improvement, but for the people who aren't as much into questing it's at least viable now.</span><p>spells still sell, why? because there arent many masters yet... (that will change in the longer though)</p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">No-brainer there....</span></p><p>food? lol... 1 - 2 silver per combine profit? no thx....</p><span style="color: #66ffff;">Since when?  If you make the right stuff you can make pretty good money as a provvy.  You just have to be willing to comb through the broker to find things that are lacking and stock up on them.  And if prices get too low, buy up the underpriced stock and resell it at what is a fairer amount.</span><p>carpenter? great to decorate your own house....</p><p><span style="color: #66ffff;">They also make the mastercrafted strong boxes that tanks love to lug around so they can carry lots of stuff.  Not to mention anyone else who is running low on storage space for their harvests, collectibles, etc....</span> </p></blockquote>

[Calthine]

<cite>Smirkey_of_Nektulos wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite><span style="color: #66ffff;">I can't keep enough arrows in stock selling them for just over triple fuel cost per stack of T6 arrows.  That's an easy 3g for a minutes' work.  And then there are harvesting tools.  People loves them their picks, saws, traps and shovels; fishing poles, not so much.</span></blockquote>Arrows are killing me!  What gets me, WS's got throwing ammo and apparently none of them care to make and market it.  In T8, between arrows, totems, tools, and Mastercrafted weapons, I don't have TIME for shuriken!!  I put up 6k ferrite bodkin arrows about 9 hours ago, I'm about to log in and see if there's any left, lol.

[EQPrime]

<cite>Ilmaaaaah@Lucan DLere wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ShallaBal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I charge 1p + incarnadine cluster for an imbued t8 weapon. Most people don't even raise an eyebrow and I only had one "discussion" about the price so far.</p><p>Sha</p></blockquote>Where did you find a sucker that actually wanted a player-made weapon? <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /><img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/385970365b8ed7503b4294502a458efa.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote><p>Exactly what I was thinking!  Maybe he pays people 1p to take the weapons off his hands?  I have no illusions that anyone aside from twinked alts are going to want any of my T8 armor.</p><p>My sage and alchemist on the other hand will have good business.  Heck my sage even gained a few consumable items in T8.</p>

[Thunderthyze]

<cite>Rattface@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Then why not just incorporate your 'time' into your quote? It leaves no room for misunderstandings and bad feeling. Yes saying 'what is my time worth to you' will differ widely from player to player. Set up your combine costs per tier based on fuel costs + the profit you want to make. If I remember I would pay crafters around 20g per combine in t7, and have been paying 25g in t8. </blockquote>We're paying 20g per combine for t8 stuff being made by level 80s on Runnyeye. Looks like I should be grateful <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[wolfIII]

<p>Personally, I only craft for guildy's and the broker.  It's not worth my time to craft for 10g or 15g, I can do much better by just killing stuff.  When I harvest a rare I craft it and sell on the broker for a reasonable profit.  When I loot items, I transmute them and sell adornments on the broker for a reasonable profit.  I don't buy rares and I don't buy components and only craft for profit.</p><p>There are too many other ways to make coin in this expansion than to mess around taking crafting orders.</p>

[Rast]

<p>simple, I quit crafting things for people except for friends.  For them, I charge fuel and fuel alone, but then I don't make but maybe 10 pieces of armor a month if I'm busy...</p><p>To be honest, to charge them anything more than fuel costs feels like I'm ripping them off because the stuff ain't worth crap.</p>

[Talz]

Just ignore the public unless they approach you and use the broker.  If someone asks me to make something I tell them when I can probably get to it and if that's acceptable then mail what I say.  No, we aren't meeting anywhere and no, I'm not buying anything.  I click the four or five mails and if the parts are there the products get sent back.  If an honest mistake is made then I may correct it but after playing this long it's blatantly obvious when people "forgot" to send things.  Luckily for them I didn't "forget" how to return everything they sent.To be honest, I find it silly to place arbitrary values on one's time in a video game and insulting when someone thinks they can with mine.  Do something because you enjoy it and don't do something because you don't enjoy it.  It's that simple to me.

[Noaani]

<cite>Wallzak wrote:</cite><blockquote><span class="postbody">"So each person who orders something should pay you for your 12+ hours to level?"It's a cost of doing business.  If you go and buy an iphone... don't be mistaken, $600 for the phone is a fraction of the material costs to make that phone.  You have markup, research/development, advertising, labour of those who created the phone... all rolled into that price.</span><span class="postbody">"You could have done the faction writs and got the books much much much cheaper then the adventures were selling them for you could have harvested for yourself to keep your costs down. Or you could have waited 1 month till the prices of everything dropped a bit and then jumped into the market.  "I did... many many many many many writs... 11-12 per level to be exact.  It's ironic... if I (and any other TSer) had harvested all their items and waited for the books to drop to a reasonable price... we all would still be 75 and harvesting which means the items would still not be available.</span></blockquote><p>I am a chef, and as such I work in a restaurant.</p><p>The kitchen I am in is small, we have 3 chefs. Between us we have 65 years experiance (we are small, but are a high end restaurant, and as such only hire experianced staff, I am the least experianced in the kitchen, with a little over 12 years as a chef).</p><p>Now, if you were to come in and order a meal off us, and we were to add the price of each member of the staff gaining the experiance we have (or "leveling up" if you will), suddenly your salmon dinner goes from $35 to roughly $3250000 (50k a year for 65 years). I am not even including the market research the business I work for did before opening (they spent about $80000 on that), the setup cost for the resturant (over a million dollars), or the cost of the front of house staff.</p><p>Doesn't quite work, does it.</p>