Still need some explaining on fame IMO

[Kneemin]

Today I just got reminded of stupid and [Removed for Content] the fame system is sometimes...The other day I had just dinged new title (don't remember which) and then died promptly after and lost fame... yet kept my title ( huh?)Then last night my filer finally dinged champ.  Right after that I got in a group fight and killed 3 for fame.  Today I was with 2 guildies and chased down yet another hit of fame brining me to +4 hitsThen I was in TD questing and such went up to the bird place (Haoaera?)  And saw fluffy ... hit him with root and it broke immediately ... go figure and oh comes 2 yellows to help him out, i get wiped and lose champ.....Can we please get some sort of indication whether or not 4 kills into a title will save ur title when u die? or rather when i just ding a title and then die lose fame and keep it? [Removed for Content] where is the consistency?  Oh and meanwhile after I died I got mad and found fluffy and dotted his @ss and killed him..hers what i gotYou have killed XXXX....... yeah u killed him gratz? what u want a medal?no fame? status? faction? nuttin just /recent  < B F SSOE please do some [Removed for Content] splainin for once jeeezus/rant off

[ckl]

Or how about ignore the titles and play happily ever after...

[ladyvengeance]

^Strongly agree. The fame system needs to go. Faction is soooo much more important anyway.

[Amphibia]

The title system was never really explained by the devs. One thing is for sure though, it is completely and utterly meaningless due to the imbalance between the classes, and it also promotes running instead of fighting. Many of us are just waiting for it to be removed, to be honest.... With the release of RoK, the lack of balance is more obvious than ever before. Those without an evac button have generally lost 1-4 title levels already, just 1 week into the expansion. Those <i>with</i> evac, and especially scouts,  have for the most part kept their titles.

[ckl]

I'd say remove the kill, death, and streak counters, too. There shouldn't really be an opportunity for that to influence your pvp decisions, same with fame.

[Kneemin]

To the above who seem to think fame needs to go.... Although it does promote running they are still gonna run if its an unfair fight anyway regardless of title.  And the titles also promote pvp, they give you an incentive to go out and kill.  I think honstly if i didn't have titles to keep me goign i'd have gotten bored and left EQ2 already cuz then its just wow i beat him... but is he supposed to be good? I'll never knowAlthough u ppl seem to think that titles can be taken by any nub this is not true.  Take any real titled (champ+) and face him off against anyone with no title who says they are good and see who wins.The titles give me a chance to gauge my battles.  If i see two blues with hunter, im going to engage b/c i think i can win.  If i see 2 champs that are blue im runnin no doubt.Now my point, If I see 2 ppl and we have no titles im going to run regardless b/c its 2v1 and I don't know their skill lvl.Anway back to the point of the threadIs there any chance SOE could explain this to us how it works? +4 + -1 != 0 is the equation i got when i lost champ today and it made no sense

[deepruntramp]

<p>The thing is, titles don't indicate skill level.  In T2 they indicate how much plat you bought, whether you're a Scout or Druid or a lesser class, and how many AA you ground out by doing every terribad quest and killing every yawn-inducing named you could from the old world.  In other tiers they indicate how fast you are with Evac, how good you are at diving off cliffs, or how talented you are at not entering combat.</p><p>Titles either need to be made trivial (once you earn a title, you can never lose it) or just totally removed (best idea).</p>

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The thing is, titles don't indicate skill level.  In T2 they <b>indicate how much plat you bought</b>, whether you're a Scout or Druid or a lesser class, and how many AA you ground out by doing every terribad quest and killing every yawn-inducing named you could from the old world.  In other tiers they indicate how fast you are with Evac, how good you are at diving off cliffs, or how talented you are at not entering combat.</p><p>Titles either need to be made trivial (once you earn a title, you can never lose it) or just totally removed (best idea).</p></blockquote>BS. I have two champs in T2 (1 warden and 1 wizzie) and have never bought plat (and never will). I'll say it again: It's not that hard to make money. My crafters make  about 10 plat a week. Well, at least they did before the expansion came out and all our tradeskills became useless.

[Radigazt]

<p>Back when I used to care about that stuff a bit more than I do now, I figured out that equal titles seem to go like this ... if you're in a group, you need 6 infamy boosts to equal 1 infamy hit, so it is waaaaaaaaaaay more painful to die than it is to win a fight.  If you're not in a group, you get some sort of infamy buff that makes your infamy boosts from killing someone give you more infamy.  </p><p>But, oddly, it seems there is also a bug that when you die to a group (even a group of 2), you actually lose more infamy than if you die to a soloer.  So, the poorly designed logic goes something like this ... if you're solo and die to a group, you lose a ton of infamy.  If you're solo and lose to a soloer, you only lose a little infamy.  So, fair fights aren't so good.  Similarly, if your'e in a group and you lose to a group, you lose a ton of infamy.  The Devs made dying really painful in PvP as far as titles are concerned, but they made losing to a group 6 times worse for you than killing that group.  </p><p>This lead to zerging, as your group would kill another group in a fair fight, then they'd zerg and die 10 more times until you were out of power, then they'd finally beat you ... and you ended up losing more infamy than you won, despite beating them 10 times out of 11.  It also incentivised running away from a fair fight--something I find absolutely mind boggling.  How the Devs could ever incentivise us to avoid PvP on a PvP server is beyond me ... and it explains why a lot of people don't stay on the EQ2 PvP servers unfortunately.  </p><p>IMHO, titles should be done differently.  Give infamy for every kill, but no losing infamy.  Once somebody kills you, you go on their /recent timer and they go on your /recent timer ... essentially, no zerging.  Then reduce the timers to 5 or 10 minutes.  With that infamy you can choose to buy PvP gear or titles.  You can only buy the title 1 rank above the one you hold currently.  Most people would elect to get their gear first, thus making titles less desirable.  Since you couldn't lose infamy, people would be incentivised to actually PvP, and that's exactly what you want, people jumping in there and PvP'ing on a PvP server.  Sure, titles would be nice, and it gives you something to shoot for even after you have all of your gear, and yes, they'd have some meaning because to get those titles you know they won a lot of PvP battles, so either they're good or at a minimum they're a veteran player who should know how to play.  And when you saw someone with a high title, you'd know instantly that you're likely facing someone with skill and excellent gear.  But, what the heck, you dont' lose anything by taking a shot at the Champ, so let's try to gank him, we might beat him!</p><p>THAT'S how PvP should be.  </p>

[Zacarus]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The thing is, titles don't indicate skill level.  In T2 they <b>indicate how much plat you bought</b>, whether you're a Scout or Druid or a lesser class, and how many AA you ground out by doing every terribad quest and killing every yawn-inducing named you could from the old world.  In other tiers they indicate how fast you are with Evac, how good you are at diving off cliffs, or how talented you are at not entering combat.</p><p>Titles either need to be made trivial (once you earn a title, you can never lose it) or just totally removed (best idea).</p></blockquote>BS. I have two champs in T2 (1 warden and 1 wizzie) and have never bought plat (and never will). I'll say it again: It's not that hard to make money. My crafters make  about 10 plat a week. Well, at least they did before the expansion came out and all our tradeskills became useless. </blockquote>>> "all our tradeskills became useless."Will you please explain this comment?  My crafters aren't selling squat right now.  What gives?

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The thing is, titles don't indicate skill level.  In T2 they <b>indicate how much plat you bought</b>, whether you're a Scout or Druid or a lesser class, and how many AA you ground out by doing every terribad quest and killing every yawn-inducing named you could from the old world.  In other tiers they indicate how fast you are with Evac, how good you are at diving off cliffs, or how talented you are at not entering combat.</p><p>Titles either need to be made trivial (once you earn a title, you can never lose it) or just totally removed (best idea).</p></blockquote>BS. I have two champs in T2 (1 warden and 1 wizzie) and have never bought plat (and never will). I'll say it again: It's not that hard to make money. My crafters make  about 10 plat a week. Well, at least they did before the expansion came out and all our tradeskills became useless. </blockquote>>> "all our tradeskills became useless."Will you please explain this comment?  My crafters aren't selling squat right now.  What gives?</blockquote><p>Happy to. The new quests in Timorous Deep give out quest rewards for T2 that are FAR better than the MC gear, some even better than the fabled gear. So why buy a MC item when you can just do a simple (and I mean REALLY simple) quest and get an item that's so much better? Thus, no one is buying MC gear, at least in T2. Now I do have crafters up to level 50, but anything past T3 doesn't sell nearly as well as the T2 stuff because that's where the new players are. The developers are working on it (according to domino), but for now my crafters (which I have 7) aren't selling anything.</p><p>Go here for the discussion and screenshots:</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=393357" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=393357</a></p>

[Gagla]

<p>I've been a Dreadnaught for months. I've dropped from Dreadnaught to Champion since the expansion hit live... despite gaining fame almost twice as much as losing it and mostly while solo.</p><p>I'm at a loss for trying to explain how I've lost my title.</p>

[Tae]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>t's not that hard to make money. My crafters make  about 10 plat a week. Well, at least they did before the expansion came out and all our tradeskills became useless. </blockquote>Tradeskills are more useful than ever. And faction means absolutely nothing now, you can't get squat with it. You'd be able to use your tradeskill if you actually levelled it to 80. Also I can agree with the evac point - I'm still dreadnaught while many are now down to destroyers that used to be Generals. It's not so much evac itself, just uninterruptable evac.

[MikeMatsumo]

OP:so far, if you are group and get one fame kill will be like 1 / group. if you have 6 people will be 1/6. so, to get one FULL fame kill you will need kill 6 people.you need kill like 8 people with group to not loose with one hit. if you are solo only 2 or 3.if you really dont wanna loose your new title keep group until you get like 10 fames kill.BTW: i decide stop care about that [Removed for Content]. if you guys see me and wanna have a nice fight lets do!

[Ekelefer]

<p>Based on my personal experiences I'd say that titles are no indication of a person's ability to win a fight. They do suggest a person's skill-level but fail to clarify that player's area of expertise; the person could be a master of evasion or a champion of balls to the walls, dig-in dogfights. Sure, a title alludes to the fact whether a player is experienced or not but we all know reputation ultimately tells us just how experienced a foe is and exactly what they are experienced in. </p><p>Reputation gives a title worth. It will turn your title into a badge of authority that commands even your enemies to at least acknowledge its implication. It can just as easily make flaunting that high-ranking title as silly as putting a hat on a horse. What A title suggests may not be what YOUR title means to your friends and especially to your enemies. </p><p>Does the title General instill a sense of fear or even respect in you? How about a player's name? A name you see everytime your skill is pushed to the limits and every spell/CA in your arsenal has been exhausted whether win or lose? Infamy, true infamy(not artificial infamy used to often times inflate the mediocre) lasts much longer than your title ever will, unless of course you are good enough for the former to justify the latter. </p><p>Just my 2cp, enough with titles, get out there and get to know your enemy.  </p>

[SolomanShort]

Real pvp'ers realise that a title is: a) NOT an indication of skillb) Meaninglessc) A word in front of your namePeople who think that titles MEAN something are:a) Wrongb) Wrongc) Running from me <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tatate]

<cite>Supernatural@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Real pvp'ers realise that a title is: a) NOT an indication of skillb) Meaninglessc) A word in front of your namePeople who think that titles MEAN something are:a) Wrongb) Wrongc) Running from me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" /></blockquote>Me too!

[Amphibia]

<cite>Supernatural@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Real pvp'ers realise that a title is: a) NOT an indication of skillb) Meaninglessc) A word in front of your namePeople who think that titles MEAN something are:a) Wrongb) Wrongc) Running from me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img mce_tsrc=" />" /></blockquote>lolExactly. And someone posted on the Nagafen forum that he had heard that the fame system will be removed with the next LU! Probably too good to be true, though....  <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[raydenwins]

<p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">After reading these posts, I don't think many understand pvp enough to suggest the removal of the fame system. Sounds like many here are just levelers to 80, or maybe should be on a pve server. Fame system definetly creates incentive to kill more and die less. I will run everytime if it's 3 vs 8 (duh). I have a habit of taking on 3vs 5 when possible. I also complained a storm up from getting ganked by 6, while I was in battle 1vs1 with someone. But I did a little something about it, I researched the quests for max aa and learned a craft and made my gear with adorns. Also ran wc, fg zones many times for fabled drops. Then joined a guild that pvpd t2 / t3 and locked a twink. I earned every single bit of my twink, no plat buying crap. My only hope is for soe to adjust the fame system, not remove it. If I engage a group of three, and I'm solo, I shouldn't lose too much infamy, like wise they should get very little if they win. Those leechers (intentional or unintentional) should get zero fame, just faction maybe. Leechers = those who jump in as I'm fighting another or more with a slight chance of winning until the leecher chimes in to finish me off and get fame.  I think such an adjustment would encourage more fighting everywhere.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">"Stay in a group...if you want to live"</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">Shang...</span></p>

[Amphibia]

<cite></cite>Nevermind.Screw this, it's probably a lost cause anyway.

[Zacarus]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Zacarus@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>deepruntramp wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>The thing is, titles don't indicate skill level.  In T2 they <b>indicate how much plat you bought</b>, whether you're a Scout or Druid or a lesser class, and how many AA you ground out by doing every terribad quest and killing every yawn-inducing named you could from the old world.  In other tiers they indicate how fast you are with Evac, how good you are at diving off cliffs, or how talented you are at not entering combat.</p><p>Titles either need to be made trivial (once you earn a title, you can never lose it) or just totally removed (best idea).</p></blockquote>BS. I have two champs in T2 (1 warden and 1 wizzie) and have never bought plat (and never will). I'll say it again: It's not that hard to make money. My crafters make  about 10 plat a week. Well, at least they did before the expansion came out and all our tradeskills became useless. </blockquote>>> "all our tradeskills became useless."Will you please explain this comment?  My crafters aren't selling squat right now.  What gives?</blockquote><p>Happy to. The new quests in Timorous Deep give out quest rewards for T2 that are FAR better than the MC gear, some even better than the fabled gear. So why buy a MC item when you can just do a simple (and I mean REALLY simple) quest and get an item that's so much better? Thus, no one is buying MC gear, at least in T2. Now I do have crafters up to level 50, but anything past T3 doesn't sell nearly as well as the T2 stuff because that's where the new players are. The developers are working on it (according to domino), but for now my crafters (which I have 7) aren't selling anything.</p><p>Go here for the discussion and screenshots:</p><p><a rel="nofollow" href="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=393357" target="_blank">http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/...topic_id=393357</a></p></blockquote>Wow, thanks.  I've been asleep at the wheel.  Gotta get out of the TS instances and head over to TD.

[valkyriepc]

<cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: 'Times New Roman';">After reading these posts, I don't think many understand pvp enough to suggest the removal of the fame system. Sounds like many here are just levelers to 80, or maybe should be on a pve server. Fame system definetly creates incentive to kill more and die less. I will run everytime if it's 3 vs 8 (duh). I have a habit of taking on 3vs 5 when possible. I also complained a storm up from getting ganked by 6, while I was in battle 1vs1 with someone. But I did a little something about it, I researched the quests for max aa and learned a craft and made my gear with adorns. Also ran wc, fg zones many times for fabled drops. Then joined a guild that pvpd t2 / t3 and locked a twink. I earned every single bit of my twink, no plat buying crap. My only hope is for soe to adjust the fame system, not remove it. If I engage a group of three, and I'm solo, I shouldn't lose too much infamy, like wise they should get very little if they win. Those leechers (intentional or unintentional) should get zero fame, just faction maybe. Leechers = those who jump in as I'm fighting another or more with a slight chance of winning until the leecher chimes in to finish me off and get fame.  I think such an adjustment would encourage more fighting everywhere.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: 'Times New Roman';">"Stay in a group...if you want to live"</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Shang...</span></p></blockquote>"<span style="font-size: 16px;font-family: 'Times New Roman';color: #444444;" class="Apple-style-span">If I engage a group of three, and I'm solo, I shouldn't lose too much infamy, like wise they should get very little if they win." HUH? So if YOU engage, then others should be penalized because you have a rambo complex and lost? The fame gains should be exactly how they are. But they need a tweak it so you don't lose titles, and each title gives you rewards. Not an arbitray faction reward, but pvp rewards based per title. As in a treasured set thats pretty good (like RoK treasured) for hunter, legendary basic set for slayer fabled on up or something, and little gadgets that are more fluff or give small bonuses to pvp, like 2% more health if wielding a flag of your city or something. Those would be incentive to kill, and if no fame loss/title loss were to incur it would decrease running. And remove the ability to see your deaths. Just show total kills and give a viewable bar on how far you are from reaching the next title. Would completely make the title system worth it. </span>

[valkyriepc]

<cite>Amphibia wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><span style="color: #cc0000;">After reading these posts, I don't think many understand pvp enough to suggest the removal of the fame system. Sounds like many here are just levelers to 80, or maybe should be on a pve server. Fame system definetly creates incentive to kill more and die less.</span> I will run <span style="color: #cc0000;">(you mean evac?)</span> everytime if it's 3 vs 8 (duh). I have a habit of taking on 3vs 5 when possible. I also complained a storm up from getting ganked by 6, while I was in battle 1vs1 with someone. But I did a little something about it, I researched the quests for max aa and learned a craft and made my gear with adorns. Also ran wc, fg zones many times for fabled drops. Then joined a guild that pvpd t2 / t3 and locked a twink. I earned every single bit of my twink, no plat buying crap. My only hope is for soe to adjust the fame system, not remove it. If I engage a group of three, and I'm solo, I shouldn't lose too much infamy, like wise they should get very little if they win. Those leechers (intentional or unintentional) should get zero fame, just faction maybe. Leechers = those who jump in as I'm fighting another or more with a slight chance of winning until the leecher chimes in to finish me off and get fame.  I think such an adjustment would encourage more fighting everywhere.</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: 'Times New Roman';">"Stay in a group...if you want to live"</span></p><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Shang...</span></p></blockquote>I disagree completely, and I think you are flat wrong, to be honest. I think I (as well as others here) understand PvP well enough to see that there are just too many flaws with this system to keep it in its current for. Isn't Shang a ranger? Then you're the lucky winner of track and evac, and as such -  the system is as designed for you. What do you think a clothy gets? And please,  the"get a group" argument is getting very tiresome - especially when coming from people who play classes that can do so extremely well on their own. You have to understand that this is not an option, nor a desire for everyone. Should scout classes be the only viable solo classes on a PvP server? And should everyone else be punished for making a different choice? And again - did you see what happened when RoK came out? People went out soloing. Those with an evac button got to keep their titles, while most others (except those who dont go out without a group) dropped 1-4 titles in just a few days. Sounds balanced? The fame system doesn't really create any incentive to kill more, just die less - or preferably not at all. Half the players on Nagafen seems to play scouts, and a scout only fights when he/she chooses to. Let's just say that there is a lot of evac action going on when fame is involved...</blockquote>You have this total hate for evac, get over it. Nothing is wrong with evac. Druid classes are played more than scouts. And well played non scouts do just as fine as scouts solo. Healers (shaman and cleric) pack a punch and own face solo. Hell even well played dirges / troubs are a force to be reckoned with. MS spec'd casters drop people easily as quick. Yes scouts have track, which help with the ability to avoid and choose a fight, but thats just about it. Not like stealth does anything for anyone anymore. Everyone runs around with totems. Just drop the evac crying. Get over it. So they choose to avoid getting killed by 6 people by evacing to a safe spot and sit there. Let them wet themselves, give em time to clean themselves up, and get back out there. Move on and quit your [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Seems evac pops up in every single one of your posts.

[Amphibia]

<cite>valkyriepc wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite></cite>You have this total hate for evac, get over it. Nothing is wrong with evac. Druid classes are played more than scouts. And well played non scouts do just as fine as scouts solo. Healers (shaman and cleric) pack a punch and own face solo. Hell even well played dirges / troubs are a force to be reckoned with. MS spec'd casters drop people easily as quick. Yes scouts have track, which help with the ability to avoid and choose a fight, but thats just about it. Not like stealth does anything for anyone anymore. Everyone runs around with totems. Just drop the evac crying. Get over it. So they choose to avoid getting killed by 6 people by evacing to a safe spot and sit there. Let them wet themselves, give em time to clean themselves up, and get back out there. Move on and quit your [I cannot control my vocabulary]. Seems evac pops up in every single one of your posts.</blockquote>I dislike the tone in your post, let's not turn this into a flamefest, ok? But you're right, I do mention it often. Perhaps too often. But if that really bothers you so much, you can always just skip the posts written by me.  And I promise I'll shut up when they either give evac to everyone, remove it entirely OR remove the fame system. Just <i>one</i> of those things would go a long way to balance things out.Or scratch that, I think there is a good chance I'll just stop caring long before something actually happens. BTW: Your post actually helps prove that point (not yours). As if it needed to be proved any further now.... <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>t's not that hard to make money. My crafters make  about 10 plat a week. Well, at least they did before the expansion came out and all our tradeskills became useless. </blockquote>Tradeskills are more useful than ever. And faction means absolutely nothing now, you can't get squat with it.You'd be able to use your tradeskill if you actually levelled it to 80.Also I can agree with the evac point - I'm still dreadnaught while many are now down to destroyers that used to be Generals. It's not so much evac itself, just uninterruptable evac.</blockquote>When the hell did I mention faction in my post? Did you even read what I wrote? FYI leveling a tradeskill takes a very long time, and A LOT of money. I'm simply stating the fact that since the expansion, no one is buying T2 MC stuff.

[Tugatug]

Fame system is broken. Why should someone that rolls in a group that wipes all of the smaller groups and singles out in a zone gain cool titles that should actually mean they are good at PVP?The ranking system rewards ganking people in unfair fights. It promotes ganking unfairly and some ppl will routinely gank you multiple times in a row if even if they get zero fame for it. Sure in WoW my toons got ganked and camped by higher lvl guys, but dying didn't put a little black mark on your k/d ratio and PVP was open, so I could get on my 70 and pwn that [Removed for Content] face.This system promotes harassment and makes pvp less fun. PVP should not be about blatant ganking of toons for no reason, but objectified allowing two sides to fight for a purpose.PVP could be worse off though.

[Gimet]

<cite>Supernatural@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Real pvp'ers realise that a title is: a) NOT an indication of skill- <span style="color: #0099ff;">Yes, because beatign someone with no title is just like tryign to beat someone with champ. =) They're doing somethine right, so this IS a true statement. Maybe not to a faaaar extent, but you can judge skill.</span>b) Meaningless- <span style="color: #0099ff;">I guess it is. Maybe an ego-booster to some.</span>c) A word in front of your name- <span style="color: #0099ff;">A cool one at that. Don't tell me "Slayer" "Destroyer" and "General" don't sound cool in front of yours and other's names. I simply want the system FIXED....not Taken.</span>People who think that titles MEAN something are:a) Wrongb) Wrongc) Running from me <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />" width="15" height="15" />- <span style="color: #0099ff;">People will run just because they know they can't win. They don't wnat to die for no reason, so they run. People will also run because of their KIll Streak. You can't blame running on titles...because I've had people outside my title range run from me. Do titles play roles? Of course they do sometimes. But it's not the sole reason.</span></p><p><span style="color: #0099ff;">Why do you run form mobs when you're about to die? You don't lose [Removed for Content] form those.<img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /></span></p></blockquote>

[Armironhead]

<cite>Tugatug wrote:</cite><blockquote>This system promotes harassment and makes pvp less fun. PVP should not be about blatant ganking of toons for no reason, but objectified allowing two sides to fight for a purpose.</blockquote>U gank the other side because ur at war with the other side.  Thats enough reason for me.

[Bogenbroom123]

<p>Granted, there are some decent pvpers out there with some high titles who will put up a good fight, but from what I've seen in general, the higher the title, the bigger the coward.  When I'm out pvping, I can't get a good 1 on 1 fight with anyone who has a title unless he's red con to me, grouped for a 6 vs 1 fight, or raid grouped for an x4 vs 1 group fight.  Normally, I cast, they evac or run to an edge somewhere and parachute.  At 70, I actually had level 75+ running from solo fights.  For me it's all about this...we're enemies, let's fight.  1 token to me is worth more than the highest title in the game.  It's all about status, token collecting, and getting that tasty gear.</p>

[Spyderbite]

<cite>raydenwins wrote:</cite><blockquote><p><span style="font-size: small;font-family: Times New Roman;">Sounds like many here are just levelers to 80, or maybe should be on a pve server.</span></p></blockquote>I'd agree with you, but then we'd <b>both</b> be wrong.Fame is not an "incentive". Its an excuse for justifying gank squads that roll over solos and mentored groups and then running at the first sign of a group that is equally matched with them. Its an excuse for people to jump in and hit somebody much higher in level than them who is occupied in another fight and low on health.Its an excuse for the use of cheap tactics. Period.I'm sure there are many out there who use the Fame system as it was designed. But, lets get real.. majority abuse it.I say remove it entirely, or implement much more severe penalties for attacking somebody who is little or no challenge to you. <b>This</b> will encourage PvP. It will no longer promote gangs of punks running around mowing down every green on the screen and running as soon as their scout sees a white or yellow toon appear in tracking.With greater penalties for such actions, the newer players can enjoy PvP with each other instead of standing there and dying to groups of 3 or more who are twinked out and are no where nearly as matched up with the exception of level alone.Most importantly.. it will encourage those who claim that Fame is an incentive to PvP especially in the lower levels. I suspect however, that if such penalties were implemented, these people would either unlock their level and move on.. or dust off their higher level toons and go find something else to occupy their time.

[raydenwins]

I have read some valid arguments here, but I have to hold ground a little. I'm a 26 warden and will fight anyone solo up to 30.  I have a title, but that doesn't mean i run.  To be honest, I'm solo alot looking for a decent fight, also looking for a few to grp with that i may know.  I'm always searching for titled qs to kill, when solo i leave the untitled alone unless they attack me.  My favorite moments are taking on 2 or 3 qs solo. I am not a cheapskate, but come across many that are.

[Tae]

<cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><cite></cite> <blockquote>When the hell did I mention faction in my post? Did you even read what I wrote? FYI leveling a tradeskill takes a very long time, and A LOT of money. I'm simply stating the fact that since the expansion, no one is buying T2 MC stuff. </blockquote>You're level locked "Because of faction", and now there's no need to do it, so people aren't locking and aren't buying MC T2 gear. If you want to make money as a crafter, level to T8. That's how it works on every single other server, and the devs aren't going to bother balancing crafting at lower tiers with that in mind.

[Dramisci]

<cite>Kneemin@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>To the above who seem to think fame needs to go.... Although it does promote running they are still gonna run if its an unfair fight anyway regardless of title.  And the titles also promote pvp, they give you an incentive to go out and kill.  I think honstly if i didn't have titles to keep me goign i'd have gotten bored and left EQ2 already cuz then its just wow i beat him... but is he supposed to be good? I'll never know<b>You seem to forget that running away is only half of what fame and titles promote, they also promote zerging and sitting by easy escape routes while pvping (DLW carpet for freeps anyone?) more often then not I'll see T2-T3 dessys running from even fights once they realize their not fighting nubs even before their health drops significantly because their afraid they might loose that meaningless title they seem to covet so dearly above quality pvp... </b>Although u ppl seem to think that titles can be taken by any nub this is not true.  Take any real titled (champ+) and face him off against anyone with no title who says they are good and see who wins.<b>I might of agreed with you on this a long time ago... but nowadays its just flat out not true, since well most of us know that their is a large influx of nubs with titles because they play the " we won't fight without 3 or 4 to 1 odds" game lol.. [Removed for Content] just last night I was watching a buddy of mine in DLW running around trucking people with his warlock friend and they both only had hunter titles but a couple even con dessys roll up and start to attack em and wind up getting their [Removed for Content]'s handed to them, low and behold they turn tail and sprint as fast as they can towards the carpet at the fair... or a high lvl guard  then of course 2-3 minutes later you see the same 2 guys come back with 8 new friends of course all with dessy titles no doubt due to the same don't fight unless its 3 to 1 or higher mentality... then something magical happened lol and a group of 6 friendlys came waltzing up behind them with a lower average level then the enemy group.. what happens now you say?  yes thats right kids you guessed it they all turned around and high tailed it back to the fair looking for more help lol.. gotta love the classic title whoring sissys! thanks for enabling this sony.</b>The titles give me a chance to gauge my battles.  If i see two blues with hunter, im going to engage b/c i think i can win.  If i see 2 champs that are blue im runnin no doubt.Now my point, If I see 2 ppl and we have no titles im going to run regardless b/c its 2v1 and I don't know their skill lvl.<b>Well thats all fine and dandy for you since your clearly under the delusion that titles denote skill level which they clearly do not, they do however denote how good people are at running away evacing and fighting only when the odds are steeply in their favor.</b>Anway back to the point of the threadIs there any chance SOE could explain this to us how it works? +4 + -1 != 0 is the equation i got when i lost champ today and it made no sense<b>Its pretty simple really dying to people with less fame costs you much more fame(depending on the fame disparity) then dying to someone of equal fame rating, so in turn if you die to a non title or hunter as a champ or dessy your going to bomb alot quicker then dying to another champ or dessy.. just the same as that non title will gain title quicker off killing you then someone of a lesser stature. You don't need a magic numerical formula just these simple facts.</b></blockquote>

[Jaggid]

I have told my step son repeatedly to ignore the Fame System, anyone can get a title if they play long enough and stay grouped, it means thing and is utterly broken.

[ladyvengeance]

<cite>Taear@Venekor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>ladyvengeance wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>When the hell did I mention faction in my post? Did you even read what I wrote? FYI leveling a tradeskill takes a very long time, and A LOT of money. I'm simply stating the fact that since the expansion, no one is buying T2 MC stuff. </blockquote>You're level locked "Because of faction", and now there's no need to do it, so people aren't locking and aren't buying MC T2 gear.If you want to make money as a crafter, level to T8. That's how it works on every single other server, and the devs aren't going to bother balancing crafting at lower tiers with that in mind.</blockquote><p>Completely wrong. I see level lockers every day whilst pvping all over Norath, so your statement that "people aren't locking" is just false. And people are buying MC T2 gear, just not the armor - I still sell plenty of hex dolls. And why shouldn't they buy T2 gear? They have to spend 10 levels in T2 - no reason not to buy the gear to make those quests and mobs easier. Since the expansion the TD quest gear is better than the MC gear, so someone can spend 5 minutes on a really easy quest and get a piece of armor that's a hell of a lot better than MC gear - just doesn't seem balanced (or fair).</p><p>Also, to your statement that "the devs aren't going to bother balancing crafting at lower tiers" ----- BS. Domino, a tradeskill DEVELOPER has stated such to the contrary in her state of tradeskills thread:</p><p>"T1-2 mastercrafted vs RoK quest loot needs rebalancing"</p>