Vampiric Orb feedback

[jaff247]

hey guys,i just got my adept 3 for this made up yesterday and went out there into the big bad world to test out our new awesome ability... and ive got to say i am completely underwhelmed at how it has been implemented. The idea is fine, i know alot of people hate their classes new ability, its not about that.. but the way in which the spell works, or doesnt work makes me wonder how many real necros got the chance to give feedback on it in beta.The first thing which baffles me is the way in which whoever you cast it on it will path with them like a god pet, it has a really short range, it feels shorter than bloodcloud, and moving the slightest bit is just begging it to turn around and path behind you , completely out of range of the target youre engaged with.... so it sits there basically just looking all badass but not doing a whole lot for the fight..Now if you or the person youve dropped it on become aware of this and try to move in closer to the mob again to bring the orb into range, youre absolutely begging to recieve the slightest damage from some kind of ae and have the thing pop off for the next 3 minutes. Im all for challenges, which is why i play a necro on the nagafen pvp server, but i dont think this is about wanting a challenge tuned down, its more about wanting the situation to make sense.. the orb is painful to manage to the point that its already an afterthought unless im cleaning out a whole swarm of greys that i can stand ontop of and know i wont get hit.My suggestions would be , instead of making it a 'buff' cast on an ally, to make it a hostile spell cast on your target and to do away with the whole, you take 1 point of damage and the orb vanishes thing, that just doesnt make any sense to me, from a roleplay or game mechanic point of view, i just do not get why it has been implemented in this manner. Let it have a physical representation , the orb looks cool, but you dont need to treat it like a swarm pet which just implodes if the mob looks at it the wrong way, just make it a disease dot....anyone else have any thoughts?

[Emo]

is the damage still 20% of what it was on beta or did they buff it up a bit to make it do just a tad more damage than a regular dumbfire pet?

[Sabutai]

<cite>Ashkii@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>hey guys,i just got my adept 3 for this made up yesterday and went out there into the big bad world to test out our new awesome ability... and ive got to say i am completely underwhelmed at how it has been implemented. The idea is fine, i know alot of people hate their classes new ability, its not about that.. but the way in which the spell works, or doesnt work makes me wonder how many real necros got the chance to give feedback on it in beta.The first thing which baffles me is the way in which whoever you cast it on it will path with them like a god pet, it has a really short range, it feels shorter than bloodcloud, and moving the slightest bit is just begging it to turn around and path behind you , completely out of range of the target youre engaged with.... so it sits there basically just looking all badass but not doing a whole lot for the fight..Now if you or the person youve dropped it on become aware of this and try to move in closer to the mob again to bring the orb into range, youre absolutely begging to recieve the slightest damage from some kind of ae and have the thing pop off for the next 3 minutes. Im all for challenges, which is why i play a necro on the nagafen pvp server, but i dont think this is about wanting a challenge tuned down, its more about wanting the situation to make sense.. the orb is painful to manage to the point that its already an afterthought unless im cleaning out a whole swarm of greys that i can stand ontop of and know i wont get hit.My suggestions would be , instead of making it a 'buff' cast on an ally, to make it a hostile spell cast on your target and to do away with the whole, you take 1 point of damage and the orb vanishes thing, that just doesnt make any sense to me, from a roleplay or game mechanic point of view, i just do not get why it has been implemented in this manner. Let it have a physical representation , the orb looks cool, but you dont need to treat it like a swarm pet which just implodes if the mob looks at it the wrong way, just make it a disease dot....anyone else have any thoughts?</blockquote>when I first played with this on beta all the negatives made sense cause the thing was doing 3-5k dmg per tick per target, I was like wow this spell is awesome, sure I have to micromanage it but its worth it.  Then they nerfed the hell out of it, its not worth upgrading, its not worth casting unless you're really really bored, and IMO its not worth putting on your hotbar.  What really has me steamed as well is the fact that our end game Fabled gear is designed around this stupid spell.  good job guys, you really screwed up on this one.

[Sabutai]

<cite>Emoec wrote:</cite><blockquote>is the damage still 20% of what it was on beta or did they buff it up a bit to make it do just a tad more damage than a regular dumbfire pet?</blockquote>this does less dps than our adept 3 imps

[Virulence]

<p>There was a poorly explained MASSIVE 11th hour nerf from what I think was the devs looking at parsing logs from beta test raids.</p><p>This spell needs to be seriously re-looked at. </p><p>My gut tells me someone low on the software foodchain designed this spell, thought out a fairly cool concept with appropriate damage vs. difficulty of use and coded it, then someone entirely different higher on the command chain, unfamiliar with the whole situation, stepped in and nerfed it to uselessness without realizing the consequences. The CIA term for this is 'Blowback'</p>

[jaff247]

at app 2 it was hitting for 300'ish per tick, at adept 3 it seemed more like 400-500 per tick, its really not that impressive... last night tho i cast it on myself and ran thru a swarm of bixies in gfay, watching them get sucked out of the sky by tentacles was pretty amusing, its the ultimate grey farm skill :>

[Supp]

<p>So this thing dies if it takes 1 point of damage. I guess I have an ignorant question to ask then. Let's say a shaman puts up a group ward. Is it possible this pet will get that ward's protection? I'm thinking it wont, but it's worth asking I guess.</p>

[Za]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>So this thing dies if it takes 1 point of damage. I guess I have an ignorant question to ask then. Let's say a shaman puts up a group ward. Is it possible this pet will get that ward's protection? I'm thinking it wont, but it's worth asking I guess.</p></blockquote><p>That's actually not a bad question... Also... it's NOT the vampirism that has to take damage. It's the person the vampirism is cast ON. So if a player or pet has a ward on... does the vampirism dispell if the ward is hit, or does that player char actually have take damage?</p>

[hailskins2006]

<p>/agree</p><p> Although this spell is cool in theory; in reality is is fairly worthless.  I used it in beta, but was not impressed and won't be wasting my time with it in live.  Although I really like many aspects of the ROX xpac, this spell was disappointing, especially as our level 80 "special" spell.  Would like to see it chaged to something with some value that we will actualy use.  But RAIDWIDE HEARTS FTW - WOOT!  THANKS FOR THAT SOE!</p>

[LazyPurp]

I am an optimist at heart...I'm hoping for changes to come. So I am here to see if anyone has heard anything new about this horrible excuse for a spell being corrected? I've tried it solo, grouped and ha-ha in the Tomb of Thugga...and the only thing more useless is Infravision. The mob farts and the orb is gone. I agree..cool concept...but some how...some way...something went very wrong.

[KBern]

In and of itself the spell does suck, when compared to the conj lvl 80 spell, it is horrible.

[Kinox]

Something they discussed in the beta forums is using bloodpact with scout pet and then put the orb on the scout pet.  Im not sure whether that turned out to be the best way to use it, but maybe you guys should try that too?  Im not sure if the orb will be protected from aoe using this settup, but the scout pet will definately avoid any aoe's but then again you have to worry about damage shields.

[LazyPurp]

Yeah 90% of the time it doesn't pay to be evil...conjy's have some love. Maybe I should respec and use it with the Ooze pet of super usefulness. Ooze pet + Orb = WORLD DOMINATION! <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />

[Boran]

LoL a guildy looted the master last night, so I suppose it saves me a cluster <img src="/eq2/images/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" />The idea about the scout pet and bloodpact is interesting, but to maintain bp for 45 seconds will create quite a drain on power.

[evhallion]

<cite>Kinox@Nagafen wrote:</cite><blockquote>Something they discussed in the beta forums is using bloodpact with scout pet and then put the orb on the scout pet.  Im not sure whether that turned out to be the best way to use it, but maybe you guys should try that too?  Im not sure if the orb will be protected from aoe using this settup, but the scout pet will definately avoid any aoe's but then again you have to worry about damage shields.</blockquote>You can actually do this with the mage pet as well. Just use the /pet melee command to make the mage run in after you put the orb on it. Bloodpact will keep them both safe. Then after it is gone use /call servant to call you pet back and then set it to /pet ranged again. However that may be too much trouble for the dps you'll get from it.

[Supp]

<p>I suppose you could use the unflinching servant AA on your tank pet and the apply the orb to the tank pet. The tank pet could only melee for dmg, but it would be AOE immune and it wouldnt cost you anything except what dps your mage pet would have been doing. </p><p>Still, the idea of BP as more permanent fixture in my spell lineup has merit. Not only would it provide a more useful purpose for the Orb, but it would also guarantee the survival of the flimsy mage pet.</p>

[Kinox]

Well, while i now raid on a troub, i have done all of kos and eof on a necro and what i have to say is this:BP doesn't drain TOO much power if you have items to regen it.  You're a necro so i'll assume you have a heart and drain vitae or whatever its called.  But if you're raiding, i'll also assume you have at LEAST the manastone 1.0.  And of course theres essence of clarity pots.  Also, dont forget to recast your lich every time you zone because its bugged and i dont recall SOE ever fixing it.I totally forgot that you could send ur mage pet in to melee (silly me) because i was just so happy when they added those commands that i blocked out all my previous pet techniques.  So yeah, BP with vampire orb = win.  Oh, and not to mention that due to the life drain component of BP, your heal parse will go through the roof (every time you cast a hostile spell, lich heals you for like 100-200 depending on spell quality)Im still not quite clear on one thing though, is the orb in fact a swarm pet in that it has hp and can be killed by aoe?  BP will protect ur pet from aoe damage, but not your orb.  So the question is, has anyone tested this method yet to determine the nature of the orb?

[jaff247]

the orb has health and can be targeted / attacked / killed by mobs.

[Supp]

<p>I got the impression from the discussions here that the orb would not die in an indirect AE, rather that it would die when whomever it's attached to took dmg. </p><p>If Im now being told it dies in an indirect AE, and it has to be close range to the mob to do its job, that's pretty unfortunate. My guess would be that you would get somewhere from 5-15 seconds of the orb on the average. Even the heroic non-raid related mobs are AE'ing so often that I can barely keep up my dumbfires for any useful duration.</p><p>I will also point out that the mage pet will not just run in to melee at the inception of a fight if you turn off its /pet ranged command. After it runs through its normal spell lineup, and while it's waiting on a recast timer, THEN it will run in, which is when you would hit the orb. So if all this does work according to plan, we'll be back to the game of watching the mage pet during battle.</p>

[Sabutai]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I got the impression from the discussions here that the orb would not die in an indirect AE, rather that it would die when whomever it's attached to took dmg. </p><p>If Im now being told it dies in an indirect AE, and it has to be close range to the mob to do its job, that's pretty unfortunate. My guess would be that you would get somewhere from 5-15 seconds of the orb on the average. Even the heroic non-raid related mobs are AE'ing so often that I can barely keep up my dumbfires for any useful duration.</p><p>I will also point out that the mage pet will not just run in to melee at the inception of a fight if you turn off its /pet ranged command. After it runs through its normal spell lineup, and while it's waiting on a recast timer, THEN it will run in, which is when you would hit the orb. So if all this does work according to plan, we'll be back to the game of watching the mage pet during battle.</p></blockquote>First until they fix the mage pet spells, go with the scout.  ATM its doing more dps in a raid setting.Second, the orb does not get hit with an AE, yes it is targetable and yes if you are dueling or play on a PvP server you can whack it and it dies.  It does not however die to an AE, the mechanic is that if the person or pet you cast it on takes any damage, and this includes devour essence, the orb disappears.

[Solarax]

<cite>Sarafan@The Bazaar wrote:</cite><cite></cite><blockquote>You can actually do this with the mage pet as well. Just use the /pet melee command to make the mage run in after you put the orb on it. Bloodpact will keep them both safe. Then after it is gone use /call servant to call you pet back and then set it to /pet ranged again. However that may be too much trouble for the dps you'll get from it.</blockquote>for the time and effort this is definately NOT worth doing and you probably wont do it more than once

[Inggy]

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>First until they fix the mage pet spells, go with the scout.  ATM its doing more dps in a raid setting.</blockquote><p>Yep I'm begining to suspect the Scout pet is out parsing the t8 mage but not by that much.  I've not respected to Scout and only 3 AA's in Scout--might have to change that if the mage pet isn't fixed soon.  The Scout survives AoEs better than the mage but so far the mage isn't dieing that often to a single AoE.  I'm still mixed on which pet to use while raiding and only time / testing will prove which is better.  ATM I've not made a commitment to spec to scout over mage.</p><p><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite></p><blockquote>Second, the orb does not get hit with an AE, yes it is targetable and yes if you are dueling or play on a PvP server you can whack it and it dies.  It does not however die to an AE, the mechanic is that if the person or pet you cast it on takes any damage, and this includes devour essence, the orb disappears.</blockquote>I'm not impressed with this spell at all.  Pain in the *** to use, even with BP up it gets killed quite quickly, so something in the mechanics is busted IMO.  Reviewing my logfile from last night it hits for the 500-600 range, but to use it is the issue, target pet, BP, cast vamp on pet(and if your are using mage pet, run in to melee range on the mob / call pet to get it into range), retarget/reassist and pray.  I'm not slow but during that same time I could get off at least 3 more attack spells.

[evhallion]

<cite>Oyce@Kithicor wrote:</cite><blockquote><cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>First until they fix the mage pet spells, go with the scout.  ATM its doing more dps in a raid setting.</blockquote><p>Yep I'm begining to suspect the Scout pet is out parsing the t8 mage but not by that much.  I've not respected to Scout and only 3 AA's in Scout--might have to change that if the mage pet isn't fixed soon.  The Scout survives AoEs better than the mage but so far the mage isn't dieing that often to a single AoE.  I'm still mixed on which pet to use while raiding and only time / testing will prove which is better.  ATM I've not made a commitment to spec to scout over mage.</p></blockquote><p>I remember in beta doing a dps test of Mage vs Scout pet. To run the test I used the training wall at the ToP in Kunzar Jungle. I used T8 Master Mage & Scout pet and all master pet buffs. For AA I gave the Scout AGI Line 4-8-4-8, Wis line Minion's Uproar - 8 and the Necro Enhance Scout - 5 For the Mage I gave it INT line 4-4-4-8-2 WIS line Minion's Uproar - 8 and the Necro Enhance Mage - 5 </p><p>I had each pet in turn with it's full buffs attack the wall alone until it destroyed it. I also gave both pets Gluttony everytime it was up and gave the Scout pet Shadowstep everytime it was up. Then end result was the scout pet outparsed the mage pet in 10 out of 10 rounds. Usually by about 200-300dps. </p><p>However this does not take into account the mage buffs that a mage pet would get in a raid mage group that a necro is usually in. This only shows that solo with only your own buffs fighting a single target the Scout did better.</p><p>So i'd guess it comes down to your playstyle and the type of group buffs you have avail to determine which pet will do better for you. Something to keep in mind though til our mage pet spell upgrading is fixed, the scout pet with 8 in it's double attack AA derives most of it's dps from autoattack damage not its CAs. That damage is unaffected by the scaling and is also still there when the pet is oop when fighting powerdrain mobs.</p>

[Supp]

<p>That wall is single target though. The mage pet is a warlock. Would beat out the scout pet on a group encounter Im sure.</p><p>Nevertheless, this is excellent information.</p>

[Sabutai]

<cite>Supple wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>That wall is single target though. The mage pet is a warlock. Would beat out the scout pet on a group encounter Im sure.</p><p>Nevertheless, this is excellent information.</p></blockquote>That would be if there are any group encounters in RoK, which in raiding I've seen 2.

[Inggy]

<cite>Sabutai wrote:</cite><blockquote>That would be if there are any group encounters in RoK, which in raiding I've seen 2.</blockquote>Thats what I was begining to suspect with the limited RoK raid zones we've raided.  We have just started raiding again after a slight rebuild the expansion caused and feel behind a bit.  In my limited RoK experiance all I've seen are solo encounters in the T1 zones -- meaning the scout pet will probably be the preferred pet for this expansion raiding / grouping wise.  Time to rethink AA's a bit.

[LazyPurp]

<p>So far I see no good use for the orb in teir 1 of RoK. From what I have heard not really in the other teirs either. So far scout pet seems the best in 90% of the raids since it's mainly single target encounters and the Vamperic Orb of Necro Nerfieness has no real use at all which means to me that the RoK set necro armor will not be top on my wish list since it is based on improving a spell I don't even have on my hot bars. <img src="http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/images/smilies/2e207fad049d4d292f60607f80f05768.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" width="15" height="15" /> Maybe with the new shards allowing us to switch AA lines we can play with it more and find some use for it. Good info sharing all ...I'll keep stalking this area to see what comes in the future.</p><p>Justi</p>